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bushpilot
Topic Author
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Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:31 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060324/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_war

WASHINGTON - The Russian government collected intelligence from sources inside the American military command as the U.S. mounted the invasion of Iraq, and the Russians fed information to Saddam Hussein on troop movements and plans, according to Iraqi documents cited in a Pentagon report released Friday.

Nobody else had reported this one yet. Your thoughts are welcome.
Seems the Russians have come explaining to do.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:40 am

And here I was thinking "Vladamur" Putin was such a big buddy of Dumbya...
 
Derico
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:52 am

Hey guys breaking news, everyone spies on everyone else.

I'm sure the US has quite a few operatives in Mr Putin's hairpiece.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
bushpilot
Topic Author
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
Hey guys breaking news, everyone spies on everyone else.

I'm sure the US has quite a few operatives in Mr Putin's hairpiece.

Your comparing apples and oranges, it is one thing to collect information that all countries do, it is another to collect that information then pass it onto the enemy of that nation during war. Especially because Russia is supposed to be our ally.
 
Derico
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 3):
Your comparing apples and oranges, it is one thing to collect information that all countries do, it is another to collect that information then pass it onto the enemy of that nation during war. Especially because Russia is supposed to be our ally.

Well, I have no clue when Russia became a US ally in the first place!

But I'll give you kudos for outwitting me on this one.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
bushpilot
Topic Author
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 4):
Well, I have no clue when Russia became a US ally in the first place!

Its a shaky relationship at best, but it was shortly after the Soviets became the Russians and 'democracy' flourished etc. You should read the Tom Clancy novel The Bear and the Dragon, written pre-9-11 and involves a similar plot line to this story but with different players. A long read but Id say worth it.
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:02 am

Seems the Russians have come explaining to do.

The Russians have jack shit explaining to do. You see, Russia is a country which is controlled by Russians for Russians. It isn't country which has basically turned itself over to the control of the dipshits in Washington, and as such, owes Washington NO explanations for anything they may or may not have done in this regard. If this is true of Russians giving intel to Saddam, then I say good on them - it would have been the only factual intel during the build up to the Iraq occupation.

Especially because Russia is supposed to be our ally.

Your ally in what exactly? Russia is as much an ally of America, as America is an ally of Russia. And don't give this whole ally in the "war on terror" rubbish, as one word shoots that down automatically - Akhmadov.
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:38 am

We never agreed on any ILLEGAL invasion of Iraq so we have absolutely no explaining to do. If anything, the U.S. has some explaining to do before the rest of the world for invading a sovreign country. We are only allies against international terrorism and that is it. Every country has it's own agenda.
P.S. Just be happy we did not give them weapons.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 6):
If this is true of Russians giving intel to Saddam, then I say good on them

Glad to see they learned nothing new and forgot nothing from the old.  Sad
You can always to count on Russians that they will support any given thug or dictator, be it Saddam, Lukashenko, Castro or Hamas.
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 8):
You can always to count on Russians that they will support any given thug or dictator, be it Saddam, Lukashenko, Castro or Hamas.

It is better than supporting the coalition that invaded Iraq.
Lukashenko is a different story - have you been to Belarus? If you have, then you have a right to say something, otherwise, just...refrain from typing b/s. You think that Ukraine is better off with a "free" Yushenko? If you do, you are mistaken. Belarus is the only country in the former SU that did not have any major economic collapses after the collapse all of the belorussians living in Belarus that I talked to agree with his policies! Those who did not like them emmigrated a long time ago. So how bout you get your facts straight before you make stupid comments? Deal?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:07 am

Ah.................

Feel the Russian love !!!

The presence of a spy was discussed in "American Soldier" by Ret. Gen. Tommy Franks -although he did not mention that the spy was Russian.

The spy approached an American who had access to War Plans, and offered a sizeable bribe for a copy of the Iraq invasion plans. The American reported the contact to his superiors, and, on instruction, sold them a very complete-but quite outdated set.

Consequently Saddam was caught flat footed,and had his tanks arrayed where they could be destroyed more readily.

(Sorry 'bout that !)  Big grin  Big grin  Big grin
gene
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 9):
It is better than supporting the coalition that invaded Iraq.

Is it? Disagreement with someone's actions and ACTIVE support of the enemy are two comletely different worlds. The question is, WHO is the enemy according to you.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 9):
have you been to Belarus? If you have, then you have a right to say something, otherwise, just...refrain from typing b/s.

I have not and I have as much right to post my b/s as you have right to post your Soviet-style crap. That's the point of free discussion.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 9):
Belarus is the only country in the former SU that did not have any major economic collapses after the collapse

in exchange for no political freedoms, fraudulent elections and being the last bastion of dictatorship in Europe?
 
MDorBust
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 6):
The Russians have jack shit explaining to do

So you won't mind the US funneling information to Chechnian rebels then? Right?


The United States and Russia have been working hard to normalize relationships and act like civilized nations toward each other since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Spying and feeding information to a nations enemy is not a good way to go about doing that. Russia could have very well chosen to remain nuetral not to aid and abet Iraq, and action that is dangerously close to an act of war.

Only the people who think returning to the days of the cold war is a good idea would think that this was a good idea on the part of Russia.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 8):
You can always to count on Russians that they will support any given thug or dictator, be it Saddam, Lukashenko, Castro or Hamas.

What bull, really...

Iranian Shah, heavily supported until 1979.

Cubas Castro (until he nationalised US interests in Cuba - you did know the reason Cubas under US sanctions, right?).

Guatemala.

Honduras Condova, while training and funding anti Nicaraguan contras.

Panamas Noriega, while conducting covert operations against Nicaragua.

Pakistans Zia Ul-Haq.

Argentina, Videla 1976.

Indonesias Suharto, brought to power by the CIA to purge communists from the country.

Paraguys Stroesser, received $156m in US aid while openly killing his people in the streets.

Thats just a short list, off the top of my head. Dont think any country will deal with another with its own interest in mind. The US, as the Russians traditional opponents, certainly cannot take the high ground.

NB - this post is not meant to be antiAmerican, its simply meant to show that black and white doesnt exist. I can equally list British interests as well.
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
fraudulent elections

Prove it

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 11):
I have not and I have as much right to post my b/s as you have right to post your Soviet-style crap

You have about as much right to post about Belarus as I do to post about Nigeria (where I have never been) and for the record, I do not like the Soviet union and think that the system was flawed. Then again, I was only a child when the USSR collapsed, maybe it was better than I think.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 14):
I do not like the Soviet union and think that the system was flawed.

Thanks for making that clear, reading your posts one would believe the contrary.
"Flawed" system??? How about "evil" or "monstrous" or "one of the two worst systems invented by mankind" ???

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
brought to power by the CIA to purge communists from the country

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? Was de-nazification of post-WW2 Germany a bad thing, also?

[Edited 2006-03-30 23:34:29]
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

It is when you bring to power a "democratic" tyrant.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Thanks for making that clear, reading your posts one would believe the contrary.

I do not think that I praised the Soviet system in any of my posts.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
bushpilot
Topic Author
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:39 am

First of all thanks to those who have posted. It didnt see much activity for quite a few days and I figured it was going to die, so keep up the discussion. Ill add my comments just to further debate.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 6):
Your ally in what exactly? Russia is as much an ally of America, as America is an ally of Russia. And don't give this whole ally in the "war on terror" rubbish, as one word shoots that down automatically - Akhmadov.

Most of the time when there is normal diplomatic relations, trade, and a peace treaty between countries I would consider it an ally.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 7):
P.S. Just be happy we did not give them weapons.

Uh yeah you did, so did the US in the past. But I seem to remember that most of the fighting done there during the invasion was done with Soviet made tanks and APCs, also they had/have MIG fighters and every house has an AK-47. Nah no Russian technology there.
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
Uh yeah you did, so did the US in the past. But I seem to remember that most of the fighting done there during the invasion was done with Soviet made tanks and APCs, also they had/have MIG fighters and every house has an AK-47. Nah no Russian technology there.

I meant to say that we did not give them weapons just before the war (specifically for Gulf War 2).

On another note, I doubt that the intel we gave them was of any use. The Republican Guard knew that they had little chance so they took the opppertunity to surrender, get released and then join the guerrila war. Remember, that is the most effective way to fight against an enemy that has you outmanned and outgunned.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 15):
Is that supposed to be a bad thing? Was de-nazification of post-WW2 Germany a bad thing, also?

The purging consisted of the planned murder of 3 million communist party members, and ultimately involved the immediate execution of 500,000 people directly after the CIA backed coup that brought Suharto to power in 1965.

750,000 people were arrested, detained and tortured in CIA trained prisons, a furtehr 500,000 people were rounded up in villages and rural communties, shot and buried.

Its estimated that before he fled in 1999, Suharto was directly responsable for the deaths of more than 1.2million civilians. He also took the countries entire wealth, valued at between $15b and $35b when he fled.

Tell me, how many Nazis were killed during the deNazification of germany? How many civilians were detainedl, tortured and disappeared?

If you dont think that the above was 'a bad thing', then you dont deserve to be treated as a human.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 18):
I doubt that the intel we gave them was of any use.

Does it really matter? The fact it just happened is bad enough.
 
Gilligan
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 7):
If anything, the U.S. has some explaining to do before the rest of the world for invading a sovreign country.

Sort of like the Soviet Union explaining why they invaded Afghanistan?

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 7):
P.S. Just be happy we did not give them weapons.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Why? So we could have some more target practice?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 18):
I meant to say that we did not give them weapons just before the war (specifically for Gulf War 2).

The Russian made GPS jammers come to mind.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 22):
The Russian made GPS jammers come to mind.

A Microwave Oven can be converted to a GPS jammer with a 5 mile radius with a soldering iron, a fuse and some electronics knowhow.
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 6):
The Russians have jack shit explaining to do. You see, Russia is a country which is controlled by Russians for Russians. It isn't country which has basically turned itself over to the control of the dipshits in Washington, and as such, owes Washington NO explanations for anything they may or may not have done in this regard. If this is true of Russians giving intel to Saddam, then I say good on them - it would have been the only factual intel during the build up to the Iraq occupation.

Funny, if it had been the U.S. doing some sort of spying you'd be all over it complaining to high hell for weeks on end. Your rant falls on deaf ears. As far as giving intel to Saddam, I am sure you would like to see support to a tyrant. Typical for your ilk. I am sure when you really think that out you will wish you had not typed it here. You did yourself no favor with that little comment.

Over and out. Very out.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
MDorBust
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
A Microwave Oven can be converted to a GPS jammer with a 5 mile radius with a soldering iron, a fuse and some electronics knowhow.

That's nice, but it does nothing to couter the fact that Russia sold GPS jammers to Iraq. NOD's and AT missiles were also a hot Russia commodity in Iraq.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 21):
Sort of like the Soviet Union explaining why they invaded Afghanistan?

I do not understand why when people see that I am Russian they automatically think that I support anything Russian and Soviet? We do have a free will you know, and the majority frown upon our invasion of Afghanistan.
For the record, we did not make up any bs about WMD or them being a threat to us, we were actually INVITED by the Afghan government to help stabilise the situation in the country. It still doesn't make it (the occupation) right.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 22):
The Russian made GPS jammers come to mind.

Hey, we were helping them not get killed, those aren't weapons as they cannot be used to harm anyone, besides, they were old and written off...sure beats scrapping those units.  Wink

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 24):
As far as giving intel to Saddam, I am sure you would like to see support to a tyrant. Typical for your ilk. I am sure when you really think that out you will wish you had not typed it here. You did yourself no favor with that little comment.

Yes, let's just invade and occupy every nation led by anyone that can be classified as "tyrant" and not look at the long-term concequences. That is the way to go. Really.  Yeah sure

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 21):
Why? So we could have some more target practice?

No, because you would have been target practice  Wink  rotfl 
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
Hey, we were helping them not get killed, those aren't weapons as they cannot be used to harm anyone, besides, they were old and written off...sure beats scrapping those units.

I more liked the days when the Russian government was selling all of it's surplus military equipment to.. well, the US.

During the '90's, Russian arms were their own industry over here.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
we were actually INVITED by the Afghan government to help stabilise the situation in the country

You actually believe this crap about being "invited"? Bunch of pro-Russian traitors who "invite" foreign troops into the country are just bunch of traitors, who should be hanged high (as they did in Hungary in 1956 and unfortunately we did not back in 1968).
Oh BTW, you surely did stabilize Afghanistan...

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
I do not understand why when people see that I am Russian they automatically think that I support anything Russian and Soviet?

You still don't understand, do you???

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
No, because you would have been target practice

Thanks for the laugh... I think the world could make up its mind during Gulf 1 and Gulf 2 wars.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
Yes, let's just invade and occupy every nation led by anyone that can be classified as "tyrant"

Saddam was only "tyrant" according to you??? I do believe invasion of Iraq was mistake and waste of effort, but I find it amazing you call Saddam Hussein "tyrant". How would you call Stalin? "Uncle Joe"???
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 28):
You actually believe this crap about being "invited"? Bunch of pro-Russian traitors who "invite" foreign troops into the country are just bunch of traitors, who should be hanged high (as they did in Hungary in 1956 and unfortunately we did not back in 1968).
Oh BTW, you surely did stabilize Afghanistan...

How about a certain superpower being invited into South Vietnam by the new military rulers who had just conducted a coup det tat in which the democratically elected leader of South Vietnam found himself suddenly very executed?

I seem to remember that war went swimmingly well too.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
Yes, let's just invade and occupy every nation led by anyone that can be classified as "tyrant" and not look at the long-term concequences. That is the way to go. Really.

We have not done that have we? Now there is some long term concequences. Your argument is killed in it's tracks.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
A Microwave Oven can be converted to a GPS jammer with a 5 mile radius with a soldering iron, a fuse and some electronics knowhow.

Really? Tell us how, enquiring minds want to know.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 26):
Hey, we were helping them not get killed, those aren't weapons as they cannot be used to harm anyone, besides, they were old and written off...sure beats scrapping those units

Unless you happened to be in the house that the errantant JDAM hit because it was being jammed....And no that is not the fault of the US.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
Hey guys breaking news, everyone spies on everyone else.

I'm sure the US has quite a few operatives in Mr Putin's hairpiece.

BIG  checkmark 

This isn't news really . . . it's not like we're 'playing nice' all over the world trusting everyone else . . .

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 7):
P.S. Just be happy we did not give them weapons.

Ha Ha Ha  rotfl  rotfl 

You crack me up - I've faught against your "weapons" - specifically your tanks - and unless you've made some marked improvements in fire control, night vision, cannon accuracy, crew survivability and maneuverability in the last ten years - PLEASE give them some of your almighty weapons . . . so we can show you once again how inferior your armor is . . . we smoked Russian Armor from as far as 7000 meters and I'm not talking old absued T55s here hero - I'm talking front line stuff . . . T72s . . . left nothing but burning hulks . . . your weapons suck shit.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 8):
You can always to count on Russians that they will support any given thug or dictator, be it Saddam, Lukashenko, Castro or Hamas.

 checkmark  again . . . .

Keep in mind however - the US is not without it's own skeletons . . . I believe they were adequately pointed out above.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 21):
Quoting Tu204 (Reply 7):
P.S. Just be happy we did not give them weapons.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Why? So we could have some more target practice?

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 





Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
A Microwave Oven can be converted to a GPS jammer with a 5 mile radius with a soldering iron, a fuse and some electronics knowhow.

Reallllly. I think you've been watching too much James Bond (or Johnny English)
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:00 am

ANC, you fought in a war against Russia or India? To answer your question, yes, we did make serious improvements in fire control, night vision, cannon accuracy, crew survivability and maneuverability to name a few, it called the T-90 tank. The T-72 is more than 30 years old! What the bloody hell do you expect when you go against a T-72 with technology that is 20 years older than it?  banghead 
A single T-90 would be able to disable a whole unit of T-72's. By the way, as far as I know Iraq did not have T-90's or even T-80's! So tell me, does it make you feel proud fighting and defeating 30 year old technology Big grin Get real man.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 33):
So tell me, does it make you feel proud fighting and defeating 30 year old technology biggrin  Get real man.

As a matter of fact, it does. Fifteen years ago (Desert Storm), the M1A1 Abrams tank was fifteen year old technology as well . . . so if my simple math is correct 15 + 15 = 30. I believe we're even.

And I'll put an M1A2 Abrams, or a Leopard, or a Challenger up against a T-90 any time, any where.  thumbsup 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 34):
And I'll put an M1A2 Abrams, or a Leopard, or a Challenger up against a T-90 any time, any where

Allright, you hijack an Abrams and I will do my best to hijack a T-90; we will meet up in the Gobi desert in one month Big grin
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:57 am

By the way, did everyone notice our Russian friends expressed deep-to-the-bone loyalty to their country - warts and all ?

I respect them for that.
gene
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 35):
Allright, you hijack an Abrams and I will do my best to hijack a T-90; we will meet up in the Gobi desert in one month

Down Patton & Romel.

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 36):
I respect them for that.

Agreed, work with a bunch of ex-pats same deal with them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 31):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
A Microwave Oven can be converted to a GPS jammer with a 5 mile radius with a soldering iron, a fuse and some electronics knowhow.

Really? Tell us how, enquiring minds want to know.

Back in the 1980's, Car and Driver magazine tested a homemade police radar jammer made from the guts of a Sears microwave oven. It worked quite well. I think I still have the issue somewhere. If I can find it, I'll post the details.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
bushpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 33):
So tell me, does it make you feel proud fighting and defeating 30 year old technology

Having never been in combat myself I wont be able to answer with first hand knowledge on the issue but I dont think any soldier or fighting man wants a fair fight. When you are fighting for your life whether it be at sea, in the air, or on the ground, why would you want it to be a fair fight? If I were to go into combat, I wouldnt feel one bit of bad about being surrounded by better equipment. I wouldnt care if I was flying an F-22 and flying against Me-109s shooting them down like Cheney with Quail(wait bad example).
There is always I would imagine a bit of remorse or some other emotion that comes with taking another human life. But the fact is, if we are trying to kill each other, not play a game but kill one another I am not going to give up my F-22 for a 109 just for a fair fight. Bullshit.
 
tu204
Posts: 2239
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:37 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 39):
Having never been in combat myself I wont be able to answer with first hand knowledge on the issue but I dont think any soldier or fighting man wants a fair fight. When you are fighting for your life whether it be at sea, in the air, or on the ground, why would you want it to be a fair fight? If I were to go into combat, I wouldnt feel one bit of bad about being surrounded by better equipment. I wouldnt care if I was flying an F-22 and flying against Me-109s shooting them down like Cheney with Quail(wait bad example).
There is always I would imagine a bit of remorse or some other emotion that comes with taking another human life. But the fact is, if we are trying to kill each other, not play a game but kill one another I am not going to give up my F-22 for a 109 just for a fair fight. Bullshit.

I never said anything about feeling like you should want a fair fight. Note, I said "does it make you feel PROUD" So tell me, would you feel proud taking out some 109's with an F-22? (which would be interesting to see, the 109 is alot more manueverable) I am not asking if you would WANT a fair fight, I agree completely, it is better to have an advantage.

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 36):
By the way, did everyone notice our Russian friends expressed deep-to-the-bone loyalty to their country - warts and all ?

I respect them for that.

That is something we (Russians and Americans) have in common - patriotism.  Smile
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 35):
Allright, you hijack an Abrams and I will do my best to hijack a T-90; we will meet up in the Gobi desert in one month

 rotfl 

You could just come to Ft. Knox . . . we have a T-90 there . . . and a couple of T-80s and a bunch of T-72s, and some T-55s . . . . some BTRs, some BRDMs . . . most in working order. Some still have the hole from the Sabot in them.  wink 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 41):
Some still have the hole from the Sabot in them.

If they have a hole in them they where hit in the wrong spot.

If they where hit in the right spot the turret would pop off like a champaigne cork.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 41):
Some still have the hole from the Sabot in them.

If they have a hole in them they where hit in the wrong spot.

Nope . . . the Sabot is a very hard, fast round - as you know - and it's not unusual at all on lighter armored vehicles - BDRMs, BTR60s, and even the T55, for the damn thing to go right through both sides!  bigthumbsup  Gotta love the Fin Stab Sabot . . .

Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
If they where hit in the right spot the turret would pop off like a champaigne cork.

Yup, in fact, I've some pictures somewhere . . . T72 that didn't fare so well, hit just right - turret went airborne. Quite the mess.

Additionally - the US quit using the HEP (High Explosive Plastic) round many years ago to destroy bunkers and such. It was discovered the Sabot was much better. Although the sabot has no explosive warhead, it is so fast it had a tendency to penetrate the walls of the bunker or structure and often fly right out the other side . . . . creating a vacuum at times that caused said bunker or structure to implode. Quite an impressive sight. Tests were also conducted with HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) rounds on similar bunkers. Although the HEAT round was very effective in that the shaped charge would spew death and destruction into the bunker, that was only successful if the warhead managed to penetrate. HEAT isn't as fast as Sabot, and sometimes the blasted round wouldn't penetrate. The explosion would often create a bit of spaulding inside the bunker but wouldn't have the killing effect of the sabot.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
Most of the time when there is normal diplomatic relations, trade, and a peace treaty between countries I would consider it an ally.

So why is the US (e.g. with Echolon) spying on EU countries, like Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others? Wouldn`t you consider them as allys? You are naive.

As Tu204 said (Reply 7), they never agreed to an illegal invasion of a sovereign country. They and the rest of the world (apart from the UK and other European countries with, as Mr. Rumsfeld likes to call them, "new european" governments and some poodles in Asia) owes nothing to the US, for their stupid adventure in Iraq.

Axel

[Edited 2006-04-02 10:53:34]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
bushpilot
Topic Author
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 44):
So why is the US (e.g. with Echolon) spying on EU countries, like Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others? Wouldn`t you consider them as allys? You are naive.

Well to call me naive is not quite fair, but Im not going to make a big deal against a personal attack. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Because everyone gathers intelligence on everyone else. That is fair enough, and im not talking about that. But imagine what the British would have said if the US fed the Argentinians the war plans for Falkland campaign. Doing what the Russians did could have and possibly did cost lives(on both sides). What Russia did is tantamount to an act of war.(dont give me any shit about how the war is wrong, because if you read any of my past posts you will know I am against the war) It doesnt matter if you supported it or not. We didnt feed Hitler your war plans in WWII, when if we wanted to could have. No instead we helped our allies with our own intelligence and materiel.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 40):
Note, I said "does it make you feel PROUD" So tell me, would you feel proud taking out some 109's with an F-22? (which would be interesting to see, the 109 is alot more manueverable)

Proud? not really, I would be glad to have the enemy eliminated because that enemy can still hurt me or others on my side but not because I can swat flies with a hammer. So whats wrong with a Abrams taking out a T-55. Maybe that T-55 would struggle against an Abrams. But a tank of most sort can still shred infantry, and APCs etc. So why not eliminate that threat.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 44):
and some poodles in Asia

"poodles in Asia"? That's just like saying "Old Europe" don't you think?

Poor choice of words there "Old" European. Very poor. But not surprising for someone from "Old Europe".
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 43):
Nope . . . the Sabot is a very hard, fast round - as you know - and it's not unusual at all on lighter armored vehicles - BDRMs, BTR60s, and even the T55, for the damn thing to go right through both sides! Gotta love the Fin Stab Sabot

Hell a .50 will penatrate a couple of those examples.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:23 am

Pretty amazing thread ,,, 47 replies not one blamed Clinton for the spy being there ?
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Russian Spy In US Command During Iraq Invasion

Nothing new..........................AT ALL.

And, I would take the story with a grain of salt. There's no way for the media to know everything about it, and in matters like this there's usually a shitload more than what meets the eye.
Crye me a river

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