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UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

RE: My View On Islam

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Thread starter):
with their interpretation of Muslim Sharia

- that is a very important point. I get the impression that Shariah is just abused by some regimes, which is actually an insult to the religion.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: My View On Islam

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:47 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
Quoting ZRH (Reply 43):
Agree. GWB and Taliban is almost the same.

Now that is stupid. When was the last time GWB ordered his entire country to become born-again, and threatened to have anyone who refused stoned to death?

Charles, I, as American citizen, agree with ZRH. The worst is that Bush spreads these killings outside HIS borders and HIS jurisdictions in being responsible for many deaths in Iraq.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: My View On Islam

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 51):
Charles, I, as American citizen, agree with ZRH.

Ok, then, you answer. When has Bush ever had people killed simply for disagreeing with his views, which is what the Taliban did?
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: My View On Islam

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 52):
Ok, then, you answer. When has Bush ever had people killed simply for disagreeing with his views, which is what the Taliban did?

Does anyone of these people, who were bombed, who were tortured in Abu Gharib, Guantanamo etc, agree with his views?
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 53):
Does anyone of these people, who were bombed, who were tortured in Abu Gharib, Guantanamo etc, agree with his views?

Was all they did simply disagreeing? The people who were in Abu Ghraib, the only accusation against them was believing in a different religion?
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 12):
200 churches in a city of 11.3 million is really pathetic if you ask me.



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 38):
hmm and 99.8% of them are muslim (sunni)... of course they get along very well. Not even Indonesia, which is the most populated muslim country, has such a high percentage of muslims in its population. There goes your other foot... you must be running out of bullets.

= Una pregunta (one question) ... so first you think its "pathetic" that there are only 200 churches in Istanbul ... but its not "pathetic" in Caracas to have 1 mosque because its a lack of Muslims ... but then you say Turkey is all Muslim and hence they should get along ... hmmm .... so by your own admission, Istanbul should have absolutely no churches right?

I don't know man. You seem awfully hateful to a whole religion.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 45):
Thank you. The day Western Women walk around like this in India, we have finally been subdued by the West. Tomorrow you will say that the day people can dring two bottles of Absinth in front of the Kaba in Mecca Saudi Arabia will be liberated.

= Great point. I am afraid that the sophistication of your point would be missed on some people here.

Cheers,
A.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 54):
Was all they did simply disagreeing? The people who were in Abu Ghraib, the only accusation against them was believing in a different religion?

Oh, I forgot, it was all about WMDs and didn#T have anything to do with Oil, "The Clash of Civilizations" - maybe I did not study the Blair-Allistar communique properly and did not follow Powell's ppt-Presentation with those four trucks in front of the UNGA (UNSC?) properly..  sarcastic 

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
Quoting Mrniji (Reply 45):
Thank you. The day Western Women walk around like this in India, we have finally been subdued by the West. Tomorrow you will say that the day people can dring two bottles of Absinth in front of the Kaba in Mecca Saudi Arabia will be liberated.

= Great point. I am afraid that the sophistication of your point would be missed on some people here.

And day after he will pledge for a red light district a la Amsterdam in Baghdad, after it has finally been "liberated"
 
eaglekeeper101
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:14 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
Quoting Eaglekeeper101 (Reply 2):
Let's face it - some followers need closer supervision than others do, and in my humble opinion, there is no single belief system that needs more watching than another.

That's just PC garbage. You don't see the Buddhists, Christians or Taoists blowing people up in the name of their beliefs. But there is a sizable portion of the muslim poulation that don't mind that at all, and to be fair, there is a Jewish minority (the hardline colonizers) who are the same.

Once again, for clarity - the belief systems (the religions themselves) are just fine, be they Islam, Christian, Buddhist, Jainism, or the First Congregation of Shrubbery Worship. However, some of the FOLLOWERS of faith, regardless of which faith it is, happen to need a little more adult supervision than other followers do.

I trust that my original assertation is clearer now?
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Eaglekeeper101 (Reply 57):
Once again, for clarity - the belief systems (the religions themselves) are just fine, be they Islam, Christian, Buddhist, Jainism, or the First Congregation of Shrubbery Worship. However, some of the FOLLOWERS of faith, regardless of which faith it is, happen to need a little more adult supervision than other followers do.

I trust that my original assertation is clearer now?

= Well said.

-A.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 45):

Thank you. The day Western Women walk around like this in India, we have finally been subdued by the West. Tomorrow you will say that the day people can dring two bottles of Absinth in front of the Kaba in Mecca Saudi Arabia will be liberated.

You imply with your blatant statements that you have no idea about diversity worldwide, cultural relativism et al. And you imply that you believe in supremacy of Western values without showing a modicum of respect for other cultures. Keep your practices in your borders, I respect it. But do not enforce anything that defines lifestyle for you on us. We have another history and are differntly constructed in terms of culture

You guys oughta respect our values (if you want to have business exchange, tourism and pi pa po in our country) - elsewise face the legal consequences. If you don't like it: don't visit us and rather get wasted in any club in Zoho, Manhattan or wheresoever you can find your light-dressed Blondes

I tell the same to the muslim community in Europe. You have to respect our values and that they can't pretend to impose their lifestyle on us. That's my point. I don't want Western Culture to wipe out muslim culture in muslim culture.

I give the same advice as you do but to muslims (as I said before): If you don't like Western values, then don't visit us and don't live here. Go and move to Iran, Saudi Arabia or other muslim country.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
but its not "pathetic" in Caracas to have 1 mosque because its a lack of Muslims

Who has mentioned Caracas's mosques in this thread?

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
but then you say Turkey is all Muslim and hence they should get along

Exactly

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
so by your own admission, Istanbul should have absolutely no churches right?

I don't know how you came up with that nonsense conclusion based on what I said.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):

I don't know man. You seem awfully hateful to a whole religion.

I respect Islam as a religion. I don't respect muslim extremists that expect the west to bend over to their cultural demands. And I also don't agree with western powers trying to impose their democracy in a muslim nation. Is that so hard to understand?

Pretty ironic that anyone that dares to oppose the imposition of Muslim culture in a secular Western World is labeled as islam-hater and close minded.


Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
a sizable portion of the muslim poulation

"sizeable" ? NOT sizeable, but at worst some thousands

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
Not true, tolerant western cultures and moderate Islam work well. Just look at my province here in Canada, lots of muslim, no problems. There was talk of some muslims trying to introduce Sharia, this was stmaped out early and moderacy has prevailed on both parts.
--
But Muslims are a minority in Canada. What do you think the outcome would have been if they were the majority?

-
you apparently think that a Muslim majority means a majority for Shariah, which generally is NOT the case. In really free elections, fundamentalists get between 15 and 33 percent of the votes. The Palestinian elections were special, not only in regard to the results. And the Iranian "elections" ? where only candidates with the approval of the Mullahs can stand ? no, also in Iran the zealots would lose the majority.
 
civ4b2fan
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:35 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:52 am

You people make me sick Islam is a noble religion they pray alot more than us catholics do. They are also more devoted than any christian religion. Yes they have extremists but so does christianity. Take a look at all the hate groups in christianity. Take the incidents in texas mass suicides for example. So just stay out of the religious dogma'ing unless you know what you are speaking about.
 
TIA
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 38):
Let me remind you that western culture started in the Greek Empire which then turned into the Roman Empire which adopted Christianity as their religion. After Rome, Christianity was spread across Europe=Western World. The values of the West are clearly based in Christianity. It was until a couple hundred years ago that the Western World decided that Church and State had to be two different things but still the culture remained based in Christianity. How much more ignorant can you get? You just keep shooting yourself in the foot.

So if western culture started in the Greek Empire (which in itself is a flawed argument, because the "Western" culture took so much from the East), how is it a Christian culture? I guess Zeus, Athena and all the other Greek gods became Christian gods afterwards. And didn't the Romans go after Jesus in the beginning and kill many of his followers afterwards? But I guess you know better, and Western culture was born the moment Rome made Christianity their religion.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 38):

My mother's family are direct descendants of Spanish Inmigrants who came here at the turn of the century. We have lots of Spanish influence in our family and only a bureocratic hassle is preventing me from holding a Spanish Passport right now. I know spanish, I know the culture, I know the country thus I'm easier to integrate in their society than an inmigrant from Mauritania.

In other words you don't hold a Spanish passport, nor a passport of any country with borders inside Europe. Therefore, you aren't European and at this point a Turkish citizen has more claims to Europe than you do, since their country has borders INSIDE Europe.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 47):

Modern Europe started when people became more secular and the Christian "basis" got somewhat more into the background. And there are Muslim countries like Albania and Bosnia INside Europe.
-
Turkey: you may realize that Istanbul sports an impressing number of impressive churches, AND that the HQ of the Greek Orthodox Church still is in Istanbul (downtown / Euro- side) .

A little friendly correction, Bosnia as a whole country doesn't have a Muslim majority, but your point is quite correct nonetheless. But why should facts stand in the way of some people?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
Poor example. Albania was a Stalinist dictatorship until a decade ago, where religion was controlled ruthlessly. You can't compare Albania to other countries where Islam has been allowed to dominate culture and life for many years.

No, it's not a poor example. Granted that Albania is a small country with little/no weight outside its borders, but the Communist dictatorship outlawed religion because they knew they could get away with it. The funny thing was that the father of the dictator himself was a Muslim cleric. And the communists were not even the first ones to take similar steps in Albania. King Zog, another Muslim, outlawed head scarfs among Muslim womens in the 1920s or 1930s, and took many other similar measures. One of the most famous Albanian poems from the 1800s goes like this "Albanians don't look at churches and mosques, the religion of Albanians is Albanianism." I don't pretend to know why the situation is like this in Albania, but it has been similar to this since way before the communists came to power. At the same time, it is puzzling that the Ottomans were able to spread Islam only among Albanians and the inhabitants of Bosnia. So maybe Albanians are not very religious people to start with, but it has been like that even when they were in the Ottoman Empire.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 59):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
but its not "pathetic" in Caracas to have 1 mosque because its a lack of Muslims

Who has mentioned Caracas's mosques in this thread?

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
but then you say Turkey is all Muslim and hence they should get along

Exactly

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
so by your own admission, Istanbul should have absolutely no churches right?

I don't know how you came up with that nonsense conclusion based on what I said.

= Are you serious? Re read your logic and you will see how I tried to rationalize your arguments.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 59):
If you don't like Western values, then don't visit us and don't live here. Go and move to Iran, Saudi Arabia or other muslim country.

= One question ... how would you address all those Spanish conquerors who came to Latin America and wiped native Indian values? I am just curious.


Finally, I think that the Muslim world should step up. There is inherent hypocricy in their dealings (look at some of the visa regime.) However, I am alarmed at the continued bigotry. As the great Indian Mahatma Gandhi said, "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Cheers,
A.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: My View On Islam

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
But there is a sizable portion of the muslim poulation

sizable? what's sizeable? what's your definition of "sizable"....

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 49):
there is a Jewish minority (the hardline colonizers) who are the same.

have you stop to think, maybe on a % basis, there are as many Jews who are as radical as Muslims (both of which aren't needed on this planet)...?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 52):
Ok, then, you answer. When has Bush ever had people killed simply for disagreeing with his views, which is what the Taliban did?

and what was the Iraqi invasion? 1/2 the world was literally against it....the evidence was shoddy at best......and according to credible reports, over 100,000 Iraqis have died, and who knows how man tens of thousands are maimed for life...........

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
= Una pregunta (one question) ... so first you think its "pathetic" that there are only 200 churches in Istanbul ... but its not "pathetic" in Caracas to have 1 mosque because its a lack of Muslims ... but then you say Turkey is all Muslim and hence they should get along ... hmmm .... so by your own admission, Istanbul should have absolutely no churches right?

add Athens,Greece to that.....even though there approximately 150,000 Muslims in Athens, there hasn't been a Mosque built in 200 years, not to mention, the reason why a Mosque is being allowed to be built is due to political pressure..not to mention, the Mosque will be built 35 km away in Paiania, and even there people are opposed to it....

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 58):
Quoting Eaglekeeper101 (Reply 57):
Once again, for clarity - the belief systems (the religions themselves) are just fine, be they Islam, Christian, Buddhist, Jainism, or the First Congregation of Shrubbery Worship. However, some of the FOLLOWERS of faith, regardless of which faith it is, happen to need a little more adult supervision than other followers do.

I trust that my original assertation is clearer now?

= Well said.

-A.

 checkmark 

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 59):
I give the same advice as you do but to muslims (as I said before): If you don't like Western values, then don't visit us and don't live here. Go and move to Iran, Saudi Arabia or other muslim country.

what is your definition of "western values"?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 60):
also in Iran the zealots would lose the majority.

 checkmark ...absolutely!

Quoting Civ4b2fan (Reply 61):
You people make me sick Islam is a noble religion they pray alot more than us catholics do. They are also more devoted than any christian religion. Yes they have extremists but so does christianity. Take a look at all the hate groups in christianity. Take the incidents in texas mass suicides for example. So just stay out of the religious dogma'ing unless you know what you are speaking about.

 checkmark .....sensible comment

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