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pelican
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Fri May 26, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 45):
It is still a theory.

And it will remain a theory.
In science a theory does not mean something is unproven by emprical observations.

pelican
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:50 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Fri May 26, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 43):
You may not like it, but in most cases information in Wikipedia is quite correct and consistent, especially when it's about easily verifiable measurement data.

Don't use Wiki as a reference for a paper at my College, the profs will just discount the reference.
UH-60's suck!!!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Fri May 26, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting MigFan (Reply 51):
Don't use Wiki as a reference for a paper at my College, the profs will just discount the reference.

For a discussion like this it is sufficient that it is factually correct and easily accessible. That a scientific paper needs to meet higher standards is obvious, but it also usually requires a much higher level of attention and pre-existing knowledge to follow than we can demand around here.

(By the way: Most science-related Wikipedia articles are linked to the original scientific sources, so the degree of reliability is quite a bit higher than in more opinion-based articles.)
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Fri May 26, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 49):
These are all part of the natural carbon cycle. The CO2 that is emitted by volcanoes was removed from the atmosphere at one point by being dissolved into water. Burning fossil fuels is not part of the natural carbon cycle. We are tapping into one of the carbon reservoirs that is not naturally tapped.

So you are saying that when humans do something it is un-natural? That is ridiculous.

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 49):
CO2 concentrations have doubled since the onset of the industrial revolution.

Circumstantial evidence.

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 49):
All I can say about that is that its a good thing you aren't a scientist. You're linking completely different systems together, making poor assumptions and everything

You have not provided any evidence to suggest anything I say is incorrect, yet you insult me. Unless you have proof, I suggest you do an ego check.

Sounds like a kid who doesn't like what they hear because it doesn't align with their mindset.

What I posted is the truth, and was unbiased. I have no position on the subject, THAT was the point, anyone who does has jumped the gun.

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 49):
Most of the *relevant* scientific community is in agreement about global warming

Bias revealed. That is a lie.

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 49):
You run into a few geologists or climatologists with ties to companies like Exxon Mobil

Bias confirmed. Another lie.


Have you ever stopped to consider that you gravitate to the data that supports your own position? You might want to do that and stop insulting others with nothing to back it up with.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 53):
So you are saying that when humans do something it is un-natural? That is ridiculous.

Please tell me you're kidding.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 53):
Circumstantial evidence.

Ice core data from lake vostok backs this up. It acually is more around x1.5, but still. At the onset of the industrial revolution, concentrations were around 280 ppm. They are now hovering around 370 ppm. For the past 10,000 years before, CO2 concentrations were around 260-280 ppm. I'd say that's more than circumstantial evidence.

CO2 is increasing. CO2 is also a greenhouse gas. We know this. The question that remains is will this influence the enviroment. The scariest thing would be if there would be a feedback effect, either from albedo or plants dying. Can you back your argument with any actual evidence?
 
slider
Posts: 7735
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 31):
In my opinion, we are not in the position to know for certain what is really going on at this time. And whatever is going on, it is a lot more complicated than tailpipe emissions.



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 45):
I agree - I don't think we are in any position to know for certain in either direction. That is why it's a theory. Many people blindly buy into it, and many people blindly refuse to believe the possibilty of it. That's a bigger problem, IMO.

Good points both.

I've been a Teddy Roosevelt kind of conservationist, one who believes in being a good steward of the earth and living creatures, and try to tread as lightly as possible. But by the same token, I don't think we should live in caves, park every automobile on earth or enact kneejerk legislation that hidners economies whilst simultaneously having a double standard for other nations.

I think the scientists are mixed. Science once believed numerous things that have no basis in fact.

The problem with the environmental movement is that it's based on political doctrines rooted in socialism and anti-capitalistic ideals, not science.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 54):
Please tell me you're kidding.

Nope, we are just monkeys with car keys.

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 54):
I'd say that's more than circumstantial evidence.

It is not, it does not prove humans are responsible, it just proves the number is trending up. There may or may not be a direct correlation, there is no irrefutable scientific proof. I am not saying I dont think there is a connection, but we are talking proof that is accepted by the scientific community as a whole as true.

This is just like smoking. In 1963 they looked at the data, and saw a very likely correlation, but not a proven one. They could not prove tobacco use causes cancer directly, all they could say is that the evidence SUGGESTS that it does. We now know for a fact but it took decades to finally have irrefutable hard core scientific proof.

We are too early in the game to have enough data to prove man is the culprit, or that mans affect on the environment is the driving factor in warming. If you disagree with this statement, I am sorry, but you are wrong.

Sometimes things turn out to be counter-intuative, like the universe expanding at an accelerating rate.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 56):

It is not, it does not prove humans are responsible, it just proves the number is trending up.

Typical American. Refuses to do anthing about a problem until it impacts them personally. Until then, he or she will fight tooth and nail to keep from having to lift a finger.
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deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 57):
Typical American. Refuses to do anthing about a problem until it impacts them personally. Until then, he or she will fight tooth and nail to keep from having to lift a finger.

You confuse discussing scientific proof with personal opinion.

Once you resort to insults, you lose the debate, otherwise you would actually make a point.

Environmental policy will never improve with people like you at the front line.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 58):
Environmental policy will never improve with people like you at the front line.

The rest of the first world doesn't need to be spoon fed the evidence for decades upon decades before they're willing to even consider the possiblities. Why do Americans? Maybe because our so-called liberal media isn't so damn liberal after all?
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slider
Posts: 7735
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 59):
Why do Americans?

Off the top of my head? I'd say because we had an Industrial Revolution, polluted like crazy, and over the past generation have come full circle in terms of our approach, regulation and pollutant output.

We've seen dirty air, water, rivers and lakes. We're not going back there, and we've seen how easily (in global/relative terms) the environment can be cleaned up. We've run some species to the brink of extinction and resuscitated huge numbers of them.

And, obviously, our economic interest dictates it. Not necessarily over environmental concerns. But moreso that any economic decisions made based on environmental concerns had damn well better be rooted in bedrock science. And global warming just isn't.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 1:43 pm

If you're too lazy to acquaint yourself to the evidence that's already available at this point, it is pretty much the same as refusing to do anything about your cancer until the metastases are actually causing you immediately recognizable pain.

The evidence for global warming being caused by anthropogenic influences is already substantial, even overwhelming at this point. But only, of course, if you're actually looking at it.  crazy 

The alleged equality of the opposite positions regarding this topic is a purely american invention. The rest of the world already knows better and acts accordingly.

But as in Iraq, it seems most americans are rather choosing the path of comforting misinformation, followed by a rude awakening later on. Unfortunately your pollution is screwing the rest of us, too, so don't bet on that course being all too smooth and pleasant, even in the short term.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat May 27, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 57):
Typical American

What is it with you and your disgust of Americans?




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sun May 28, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 62):

What is it with you and your disgust of Americans?

It's more of a disgust of hypocrisy.

The American dream has become perverted over time. Instead of being content with a nice roof over our heads and a vehicle sufficient to get us around, we just keep expecting larger and larger houses holding ever more massive vehicles and toys until we can barely fit our entertainment systems into our living rooms, our vehicles into our garage, our house onto our plot of land, and our commute time into a single hour. Americans are a motivated bunch of folks, at least when it comes to making more money or converting our neighbors to this or that religious view.

Non-economic and non-religious motivations, such as those that promote strong environmentalism, however, have been repeatedly ridiculed in the media to the extent that they barely even register in some of the more diehard red states. Even Bush 43 has admitted that Global Warming exists and that it's likely caused at least in part by man's actions. Yet many average Americans still continue to fight this globally-accepted assertion tooth-and-nail to this day. Why?

You'd think all the anti-environmentalists on this board would have caught up with Bush 43 by now and instead of claiming that global warming isn't caused by man that it's simply too late and too expensive to correct at this late stage and that too many US jobs would be lost in the process.

------------------

Bush admits U.S. has big role in global warming
Tuesday, June 12, 2001
By Ann McFeatters, Post-Gazette National Bureau
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010612climate0612netp2.asp

Humans cause global warming, US admits
Monday, 3 June, 2002, 21:58 GMT 22:58 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2023835.stm

Bush admits to being hotter and gassier, blames humans
Published Saturday 9th July 2005 21:14 GMT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/09/g8_global_snoring/
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glydrflyr
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Mon May 29, 2006 6:02 am

What utter nonsense to postulate the theory that man ,and especially Americans, are responsible fo the so-call "Global warming". At the present time, the most polluting countries in the world are in Asia and South America, so don't blame us Yankees for it. Is mankind really affecting the climate? Hell, we can't even make rain in the deserts or not rain in the rain forests, even if we wanted to, and concentrated on it.

Is there are any really hard data on just how much of the increase in co2 over the last century was caused by volcanic eription? Yeah, I didn't think so.

As far as all these "Learned scientists" go, let's look at the record for this type of individual. Years ago, the best minds of the day could "prove" that the sun rotated around the earth, then later geniuses could prove that the Earth was flat, still later, others stated unequivocally that blood did not circulate in the body, and just recently, when an MD advanced the theory that human ulcers were caused by a bacteria, he was just about laughed out the business, even though he was 100% corredt. So much for the scientists on either side of this issue. They have a very human tendency to only look at the data that supports their theories, or perhaps the theories of the people paying them for the research.

Don't forget, many of these same "scientists" only 30-35 years ago were predicting with 100% accuracy an oncoimg ice age. Now, the argument can be made that these people are 30-40 years older, and therefore more experienced in their analysis, so we ought to believe them this time around. Anybody but me hear the little boy crying "Wolf" out there?

In any event, Armageddon is NOT ariving at 6:00am tomorrow morning, and I would love to be here at the turn of the next century to hear what the citizens of that time think about our quaint litle rants about something that did or did not happen.

Remember the Y2K warnings from the experts. Funny, no planes fell from the sky, no elevators stopped in mid-floor, municipal water systems kept working, and the sky definitely did not fall down upon us!

All the time this issue is being debated, the Earth will go on about its' business just as it has forever, and all the energy and hot air that gors into the discussion will not have even the slightest effect on what will happen.

Sit back and relax, this too shall pass.
if ya gotta crash, hit something soft and cheap!
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue May 30, 2006 1:31 am

{sarcasm ON}
I've lost my faith into "global warming" since I had to turn on my central heating again last week. Temps of 15°C/59F inside my livingroom were too low for me. Plus all that rain we have seen in the last days here in Northern Germany (where it is supposed to be a sunny late spring / early summer now) made those temps even less bearable ... {sarcasm OFF} Big grin
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue May 30, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
What utter nonsense to postulate the theory that man ,and especially Americans, are responsible fo the so-call "Global warming".

Go tell that to President Bush.

The only people who still think the way you do are Exxon/Esso & Co. Even other oil companies like Shell and BP are no longer claiming that Global Warming isn't caused by man. Your view is the domain of an ever smaller and more obscure breed of unbelievably stubborn folks.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
At the present time, the most polluting countries in the world are in Asia and South America, so don't blame us Yankees for it.

The US is the number one CO2 polluter in the world and we emit more CO2 than China, India, and Brazil combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_emissions


Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Hell, we can't even make rain in the deserts or not rain in the rain forests, even if we wanted to, and concentrated on it.

Mankind has a very poor history of affecting the environment in ways that are particularly beneficial, but that hasn't stopped us from causing massive changes that were primarily detrimental. Just because the History Channel doesn't cover it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Is there are any really hard data on just how much of the increase in co2 over the last century was caused by volcanic eription? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.

Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!


http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
As far as all these "Learned scientists" go, let's look at the record for this type of individual.

Since you're already deep in the process of attacking the majority of the scientific community at large, what's your background again?

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Don't forget, many of these same "scientists" only 30-35 years ago were predicting with 100% accuracy an oncoimg ice age. Now, the argument can be made that these people are 30-40 years older, and therefore more experienced in their analysis, so we ought to believe them this time around. Anybody but me hear the little boy crying "Wolf" out there?

Source?

Until you can provide strong evidence to the contrary, I'm afraid it looks as though you're the little kid crying wolf.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
So much for the scientists on either side of this issue. They have a very human tendency to only look at the data that supports their theories, or perhaps the theories of the people paying them for the research.

First of all, the only reason you don't fit this definition is because you apparently don't bother to research any data whatsoever. Secondly, the only people I've seen openly accused of being stooges in white coats were a few global warming detractors who refused to explain where they got their funding from. Thirdly, when you consider how anti-environment the current administration is, you'll see that researching and disseminating data that supports the concept of global warming is in fact a rather tenuous position for the careers government employees. Policies that resemble corporate gag orders on scientific findings relating to issues such as global warming have been alleged at many government institutions including NASA, the NOAA, and the EPA among others. So far, only NASA has taken any specific action to weaken these Bush-era restrictions.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
In any event, Armageddon is NOT ariving at 6:00am tomorrow morning, and I would love to be here at the turn of the next century to hear what the citizens of that time think about our quaint litle rants about something that did or did not happen.

Armageddon? The only person bringing up vague terms for mystic events is you.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Remember the Y2K warnings from the experts. Funny, no planes fell from the sky, no elevators stopped in mid-floor, municipal water systems kept working, and the sky definitely did not fall down upon us!

Relevance to the topic at hand: 0%.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
All the time this issue is being debated, the Earth will go on about its' business just as it has forever, and all the energy and hot air that gors into the discussion will not have even the slightest effect on what will happen.

If you truly believe that, then why are you even posting?  confused 

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Sit back and relax, this too shall pass.

Global Warming, or the ignorance of the few folks who still refuse to acknowledge it?

Glydrfly, I have now placed each of your comments in their proper perspective. Although I have no doubt that this will have little if any impact on your appreciation of the issue at hand, I still felt it was necessary for the good of the forum itself.
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StarAC17
Posts: 4067
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue May 30, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
What utter nonsense to postulate the theory that man ,and especially Americans, are responsible fo the so-call "Global warming". At the present time, the most polluting countries in the world are in Asia and South America, so don't blame us Yankees for it. Is mankind really affecting the climate?

Oh really this might change your mind on what you have said about South America and Asia Polluting the most. China and India combined which is 2.3 billion people (38% of the worlds total population) release less emmissions today that the US by about 1 billion metric tonsannualy. The EU which is 459 million people (7% of the world's population) releases about 2 million metric tons less than the US annualy. Where as the US which is about 5% of the world's population releases 24.3% of the total CO2 emmissons in the world per year.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_emissions

About the last part about man changing the climate. Well we don't know because we don't really have any solid records from thousands of years ago which is what scientists are trying to discover. What is happening is that on average the last 10 years or so have been the hottest on record.

Yes the planet has been warmer before such as when the dinosaurs were alive which can be because the land on earth then was all situated around the equator which is proven by the discovery of tropical plant life in what are now temperate climates. This can be contributed to the fact that glacial ice could not form at that time because most of the land on earth was in the tropics and the ice that formed around the poles was not as reflective to light as the ice today and more heat was absorbed by earth. The sea level was some 200ft higher than now at that time.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Is mankind really affecting the climate? Hell, we can't even make rain in the deserts or not rain in the rain forests, even if we wanted to, and concentrated on it.

We are affecting the climate gradually and the funny part is the places releasing the emmissions are not necessarily the ones feeling the effects of it. While the US has been unfortunate to have been hit by several hurricanes and tornaodes in the past few years. What about repeated droughts in Africa and Asia where they are not receiving enough rain to grow crops or what about that flood in the Phillipines that the media hasn't reported about. What is happening is that weather is becoming more extreme because of the increase of energy in the atmosphere. The planet has to release it somehow and that is why the weather will become more extreme somewhere on the planet.

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
Don't forget, many of these same "scientists" only 30-35 years ago were predicting with 100% accuracy an oncoimg ice age. Now, the argument can be made that these people are 30-40 years older, and therefore more experienced in their analysis, so we ought to believe them this time around. Anybody but me hear the little boy crying "Wolf" out there?

In science terms "oncoming (or upcoming)" could mean 100 years or 1000 depending on the scale of time you are refering to. The last ice age was very recent relative to the age of the earth. Hell they say when a metor comes within 500,000 miles of earth a close call because of the vastness of space. So when they use a term like that its very relative. Upcoming could be another 10,000 years considering the age of the earth and in that case its a very valid scientific statement.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue May 30, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 66):
Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!

Bad example, what about just ONE caldera? Ongoing small eruptions are not the Earth killers.

Quoting SATX (Reply 66):
The US is the number one CO2 polluter in the world and we emit more CO2 than China, India, and Brazil combined.

Duh, we PRODUCE more than them combined too. Those that produce, polute. The US and Japan combined produce almost half the entire worlds GNP. What do you expect?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
JoeCattoli
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:32 am

Governments are manipulating us, the totality of the unbiased scientists agree that it is 90% men-fault, but than a bunch of government paid "scientists" say it is all normal and we all calm down and we go on burning as much petrol we can... We already have the technology to do it without fossils for the 90% but no-one is seriously developing it. In Italy a scientist found a way to do a battery where each cell generates energy from the earth's vibrations and being virtually free and unlimited but it didn't have a big place in information...

Let's go humans, it's time to do something.

Ciao  headache 
Joe
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 68):
Quoting SATX (Reply 66):
Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!

Bad example, what about just ONE caldera? Ongoing small eruptions are not the Earth killers.

The yearly average is given in my post. If you wish to dispute it, then go do your own research instead of expecting me to do it for you. So far you have provided no verifiably relevant information whatsoever.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 68):
Quoting SATX (Reply 66):
The US is the number one CO2 polluter in the world and we emit more CO2 than China, India, and Brazil combined.

Duh, we PRODUCE more than them combined too. Those that produce, polute. The US and Japan combined produce almost half the entire worlds GNP. What do you expect?

You're apparently referring to my rebuttal of this comment...

Quoting Glydrflyr (Reply 64):
What utter nonsense to postulate the theory that man ,and especially Americans, are responsible fo the so-call "Global warming".

First of all, nothing you've mentioned explains why the Americans should not be called out for causing the most pollution of any single country. Second, your use of informal slang, poor grammar, and bad spelling while debating a serious topic does you no favors.

It's amazing that the leaders of the world's foremost power (economically, militarily, and culturally) still claim that our economy is far too weak to withstand any mandatory reduction in our pollution levels.

160 countries and city-states ratified Kyoto, a few others did not. These are some of the fellow rogue countries who have steadfastly agreed with the current US administration in refusing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol. Just look at what excellent company the leaders of the free world have decided to keep...

Afghanistan
Brunei
Chad
Republic of the Congo
Iraq
Lebanon
Libya
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Tajikistan
Zimbabwe

It's truly pathetic that the world's foremost superpower has been reduced to keeping company with the scum of the earth.


Red and grey are countries that have not and will not ratify Kyoto
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daedaeg
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:54 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:59 am

Global Warming is mostly a politcal construct. I'm not convinced the earth is changing as a result of fossil fuels. The earth is doing what it has always done for the last billion years or so. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do more to curb pollution. As we're still adversely affected by CO2 emissions and the like. We'd certainly live longer with less pollutants in the air.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 70):
Afghanistan
Brunei
Chad
Republic of the Congo
Iraq
Lebanon
Libya
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Tajikistan
Zimbabwe

Wow , most of them on the list probably dont even know what Kyoto is ! And surely have no economy that stands to lose because of it.

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 71):
We'd certainly live longer with less pollutants in the air.

How long do you want to live ? I am not sure but isnt the average lifespan longer than ever ? Do you want to live to 110 years old or something ?
 old 

I do not beleive in Global warming and see it as another economic weapon used against us.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 70):
First of all, nothing you've mentioned explains why the Americans should not be called out for causing the most pollution of any single country.

Not true, and the issue is not about whether we should or should not be called out, but why others are immune from it.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 72):
Wow , most of them on the list probably dont even know what Kyoto is ! And surely have no economy that stands to lose because of it.

EXACTLY, the US will be punished when other big offenders escape punishment because they are labeled "developing" countries. China is "developing"? Give me a break!

China will surpass the US in CO2 emissions withing 5 to 10 years an they get a pass, sorry doesn't work that way.

And what do the countries that signed have in common? That is the question you should ask. Environmental concerns are just a part of the picture.

Funny how people slam the US but never seek to understand WHY things happen the way they do. Actually, its sad.

Quoting SATX (Reply 70):
Second, your use of informal slang, poor grammar, and bad spelling while debating a serious topic does you no favors.

Dont take this wrong, but if you are going to attack someone for using slang and misspellings in a debate where reading comprehension is key, and you try to condescend because of it, well that's just very revealing.

If you are going to take a stand like that, maybe you should be aware of the fact that spelling and grammer have very little to do with how hard or easy something is to comprehend. Therefore, if you are having a problem, it is not with spelling or slang, it is with reading comprehension.

If you are not having a problem comprehending him, and there is no indication that you are, then you do not have a problem worth posting about.

Some people are not good typist, some are in a hurry, some just dont care about you enough to bother. Dont take it personally, or let your ego kick in either, because these things rarely correspond to the level of intelligence either.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:41 am

I feel that our lord and savior Jesus Christ will protect us from any " global warming " problem ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:50 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 74):
I feel that our lord and savior Jesus Christ will protect us from any " global warming " problem ...

He's not my lord!!!


 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
UH-60's suck!!!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 74):
I feel that our lord and savior Jesus Christ will protect us from any " global warming " problem ...

He probably might - as long as you didn't exacerbate the problem with your constant barrages of fire and brimstone...  mischievous 
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:50 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:51 am

Who built Jesus' hotrod?
UH-60's suck!!!
 
boeingfanyyz
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:12 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:02 am

After a couple days in YYZ with temperatures close to or over 40 (that's degress, folks!!!) including humidex, I'm beginning to think Mr. Gore doesnt have something up his ass!  wink 

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 71):
Global Warming is mostly a politcal construct. I'm not convinced the earth is changing as a result of fossil fuels.

In America, the debate is presented as though the jury was still out and as though the side supporting Global Warming was nothing but ignorant hippies. Thus, Americans find it much easier to assume it's all just a joke.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 72):
Wow , most of them on the list probably dont even know what Kyoto is ! And surely have no economy that stands to lose because of it.

Relevance to the issue at hand: 0%

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 72):
How long do you want to live ? I am not sure but isnt the average lifespan longer than ever ? Do you want to live to 110 years old or something ?

Relevance to the issue at hand: 0%

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 72):
I do not beleive in Global warming and see it as another economic weapon used against us.

Yes, the most powerful nation on earth is the one that needs our sympathy and understanding the most.

 sarcastic 

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 73):
Quoting SATX (Reply 70):
First of all, nothing you've mentioned explains why the Americans should not be called out for causing the most pollution of any single country.

Not true, and the issue is not about whether we should or should not be called out, but why others are immune from it.

Is a thief allowed to request leniency simply because other thieves have evaded prosecution? No, of course not. Likewise, the US should be judged without consideration for those countries that are just as bad or worse. If every country thought like our current administration, we'd never improve until the worst country improved first. What kind of weak-minded nonsense is that? It's about time the most powerful country on earth started acting like a responsible adult and not like a spoiled whiney brat.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 73):
EXACTLY, the US will be punished when other big offenders escape punishment because they are labeled "developing" countries. China is "developing"? Give me a break!

160 other countries and city-states decided that protecting the environment was more important than continuing to piss and moan about what the rest of the world does. That left the US relegated to a rather small group of irresponsible countries and dictatorships.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 73):
China will surpass the US in CO2 emissions withing 5 to 10 years an they get a pass, sorry doesn't work that way.

So the answer is to sit on our asses and whine about it? That's not what America used to be about.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 73):
If you are going to take a stand like that, maybe you should be aware of the fact that spelling and grammer have very little to do with how hard or easy something is to comprehend. Therefore, if you are having a problem, it is not with spelling or slang, it is with reading comprehension.

When you live in a country full of millions of folks who only bother to learn one single language, you expect them to learn it pretty damn well. Anything less is hardly worthy of the world's preeminent superpower status.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 73):
Some people are not good typist, some are in a hurry, some just dont care about you enough to bother. Dont take it personally, or let your ego kick in either, because these things rarely correspond to the level of intelligence either.

Actually, the level of writing sophistication is often a good sign of the writer's attention to detail. If they're sloppy with their writing, they're often sloppy with their research and opinions as well.

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 74):
I feel that our lord and savior Jesus Christ will protect us from any " global warming " problem ...

I don't know about that, but since he'll presumably protect us from using our own brains to think for ourselves I guess the result is just the same.
A300 319 320 321 332 333 388 B727 732 733 735 737 738 739 742 743 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 77L 773 77W 788 789 C200 700 900 DHC2 DC9 E145 170 175 190 F100 MD81 82 83 87 88 90 | 38 Lines 44 Craft 58 Ports
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2292
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:22 am

Another junk science global warming thread.

First all sorts of erronious data where no cause and effect relationship has been established is thrown around, claiming to be some sort of consensus.

Second comes the argument of "If we're wrong, it's just a little money and we'll all be healthier for it"

Third comes the political slamfest.

Somebody teach these ponies a new trick.

But here are a few tasty excerpts:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
Not to my knowledge. Climate rebounded from the last ice age and remained remarkably steady for many thousand years. The recent increase is an anomaly, even within our current warm period.

Klaus, this proves that you are factually dishonest. In the last one thousand years we have had a little ice age and the midevil warming period.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 24):
Sun activity is another point; It has not increased in any way that could explain the rapid warming that is measurable.

Wrong again! Mars is also currently undergoing global warming. This is due to increased radiation from the sun.

Quoting SATX (Reply 79):
160 other countries and city-states decided that protecting the environment was more important than continuing to piss and moan about what the rest of the world does. That left the US relegated to a rather small group of irresponsible countries and dictatorships.

And if Jimmy jumps off a cliff? (Another lemming bites the dust.)

These threads are worthless anymore.
 
satx
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
Another junk science global warming thread.

Another no-science/no-research anti-action post from the pro-nothing side?
A300 319 320 321 332 333 388 B727 732 733 735 737 738 739 742 743 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 77L 773 77W 788 789 C200 700 900 DHC2 DC9 E145 170 175 190 F100 MD81 82 83 87 88 90 | 38 Lines 44 Craft 58 Ports
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4067
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
Wrong again! Mars is also currently undergoing global warming. This is due to increased radiation from the sun.

Source Please.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
Klaus, this proves that you are factually dishonest. In the last one thousand years we have had a little ice age and the midevil warming period.

Ok we are not causing global warming because it is a natural process but what we are doing is accelerating the processes which makes the earth warm faster and become more unstable which means more extreme weather which has been really evident in the last 2 years. What has yet to be discovered is how much of an effect we are actually having.

However I ask you who don't believe in this theory "Would it really hurt you to conserve in some ways how much energy you use because even if it turns out that this theory is a farce, oil isn't going to last forever and the more efficient you are with it the longer it will last.

At lease SATX is making an effort to do something about an issue that he feels concerned about.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
KiwiTEAL
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 82):

Ok we are not causing global warming because it is a natural process but what we are doing is accelerating the processes which makes the earth warm faster and become more unstable which means more extreme weather which has been really evident in the last 2 years. What has yet to be discovered is how much of an effect we are actually having.

Yup agree!!! Live in Australia and things have changed heaps since I've moved here in 1987. This last May (going on winter) is the driest in 80 years.
Last year in Sydney this time we had 128mm of rain for May. This year 38mm.

We have been under water restrictions for almost 2 yrs now........ can't remember the last time I "illegally" washed my car. Can only water the garden for 2 hrs on a Sunday and Wednesday - and although its bloody chilly now its winter - theres not much rain at all........

Wots happening ??? (ask the science teacher wanker!)

Kiwi
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:46 pm

 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting WellHung (Reply 14):
The only people still debating it are people who claim the Earth is 5000 years old while using data from millions of years ago to try to justify their position, people who have highly decorated yes-men who tell them what they want to hear while jettisoning those who don't, those who dismiss actual scientific studies and data, people who are ignorant of Earth's processes and many on their collective payrolls... oh lest I forget - and those who get their jollies from arguing on the Internet.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Amazing how lobby money can alter the pubic debate on an issue

I'm sure the same people could convince the public that gravity is just a liberal political scam...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4067
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting N229NW (Reply 85):
I'm sure the same people could convince the public that gravity is just a liberal political scam...

Its a satire but this makes you wonder sometimes.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
First all sorts of erronious data where no cause and effect relationship has been established is thrown around

Wrong. CO2 working as a greenhouse gas is confirmed experimentally and through observation. Further confirmation of the extent of its influence is the observed correlation between climate and CO2 levels in the past.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
claiming to be some sort of consensus

If the majority claims that it is a consensus, then it is a consensus by definition.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
Klaus, this proves that you are factually dishonest. In the last one thousand years we have had a little ice age and the midevil warming period.

Why not fully evil...!

Compared to earlyer cycles we've had a remarkably long and stable period of temperate climate since the last glaciation period. The current accelerating warming exceeds both the transient effects you referred to in scope.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 80):
Wrong again! Mars is also currently undergoing global warming. This is due to increased radiation from the sun.

You're misrepresenting a tentative interpretation based on a small set of observations as a fact while summarily disregarding decades of intense research on earth? Preposterous!

You have no credibility whatsoever.
 
slider
Posts: 7735
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:04 am

http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_3899807

An excerpt:

Quote:
The only inconvenient truth about global warming, contends Colorado State University's Bill Gray, is that a genuine debate has never actually taken place. Hundreds of scientists, many of them prominent in the field, agree.

Gray is perhaps the world's foremost hurricane expert. His Tropical Storm Forecast sets the standard. Yet, his criticism of the global warming "hoax" makes him an outcast.

"They've been brainwashing us for 20 years," Gray says. "Starting with the nuclear winter and now with the global warming. This scare will also run its course. In 15-20 years, we'll look back and see what a hoax this was."

Gray acknowledges that we've had some warming the past 30 years. "I don't question that," he explains. "And humans might have caused a very slight amount of this warming. Very slight. But this warming trend is not going to keep on going. My belief is that three, four years from now, the globe will start to cool again, as it did from the middle '40s to the middle '70s."

Both Gray and Pielke say there are many younger scientists who voice their concerns about global warming hysteria privately but would never jeopardize their careers by speaking up.

"Plenty of young people tell me they don't believe it," he says. "But they won't touch this at all. If they're smart, they'll say: 'I'm going to let this run its course.' It's a sort of mild McCarthyism. I just believe in telling the truth the best I can. I was brought up that way."

Sorry Klaus, but I just can't and won't attack this windmill with you...we'll always agree to disagree about this topic.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 88):
Sorry Klaus, but I just can't and won't attack this windmill with you...we'll always agree to disagree about this topic.

Then why is it that peer-reviewed findings (where a provable dissenting view would be the surest way to fame) consistently point towards the reality of global warming, while the "dissenters" have to be threatened with being fired (EPA, NASA under Bush) or being funded by the oil industry?

So it's back to the old method: If evidence doesn't help your case, why not try paranoia?  crazy 

Making a case that's actually consistent with the mass of thousands of measurements and observations would have a bigger impact - but such a case simply cannot be made in the direction a clearly oil-controlled White House, a greedy industry and a complacent majority in the US population would like. The only remaining resort is picking and choosing only among a very small and very much selected sub-set of the whole mass of observations to even halfway support their claims.

And you're wondering why that position is on the retreat?
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 89):
Then why is it that peer-reviewed findings (where a provable dissenting view would be the surest way to fame) consistently point towards the reality of global warming, while the "dissenters" have to be threatened with being fired (EPA, NASA under Bush) or being funded by the oil industry?

Am I missing something, who is denying that global warming exists? the question is how much does mans pollution contribute to the trend.

We know from historical measurements in New Yorks waterways that sea level has risen 18 inches since the 1780's. What else besides warming could do this?

We also know that sea levels have been much higher than they are now.

We know that we have been in a warming trend since the last ice age 10-12,000 years ago.

We know the suns radiation is trending up, and the surface temperature of mars is increasing at a similar rate as here on Earth.

We know that man contributes. How much, and will the maximum reduction practical have any real effect? That is the question that we have no real consensus in the scientific community because they have not had enough time to prove their theories. All we have is credible theories.

That's all I am saying. Unlike others here, my mind remains open to the possibility that the problem may be bigger than we think, and more out of our control than we hope. I also hope that the opposite is true. Those who are sure of anything at this point are jumping the gun.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5149
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Do You Believe In Global Warming?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:45 am

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