Kind of says it all when a "neutral" party make such comments:

"Irish MP: Israel an "abhorrent and despicable" regime
Press Release, Sinn Féin, 30 June 2006

Statement issued by Aengus Ó Snodaigh Sinn Fein member in the Irish parliament and his party's spokesman on international affairs and human rights

Sinn Féin International Affairs and Human Rights spokesperson Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD has described Israel as "one of the most abhorrent and despicable regimes on the planet." Questioning the Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern in the Dáil today he said the kidnap by Israel of some 25 democratically elected Palestinian representatives demonstrates "the true nature of Israel's commitment to not so democratic principles."

"He said, "Israel is without doubt one of the most abhorrent and despicable regimes on the planet. According to the UN Secretary General for Political Affairs"

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4875.shtml

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter): Kind of says it all

Says it all? Just exactly what do you think it says?

I'd love to have him describe his opinions on legion of Palestinian suicide bombers, especially since their "democratically" elected Palestinian government is the main sponsor of them.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter): has described Israel as "one of the most abhorrent and despicable regimes on the planet."

well, two things come to my mind. First of all, the Irish are well-known as nice and positive but somewhat high-tempered folks. Second, the fiery and emotional and rethorically flamboyant approach may be fascinating, but seldom provides solutions.
-

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 2): I'd love to have him describe his opinions on legion of Palestinian suicide bombers, especially since their "democratically" elected Palestinian government is the main sponsor of them.

suggest, you have a close look at Irish history between 18... and 1924 . And I would suggest you keep a close look at goings on around the crash of the Lusitania in 1916 plus the interesting role and considerations of the Vice Marine Minister Winston Churchill . In that light, you might better understand what goes on there.

Now here is an unbiased, fact laden source, thanks Jacobin.

"The Electronic Intifada (EI) is a not-for-profit, independent publication committed to comprehensive public education on the question of Palestine, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the economic, political, legal, and human dimensions of Israel's 38-year occupation of Palestinian territories. EI provides a needed supplement to mainstream commercial media representations of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."


And th is is great too:

As well as "Sinn Féin, the only all-Ireland party, is committed to achieving a 32-County democratic socialist republic and the end of British rule in Ireland."

Ye well do you agree Jacobin?

Some others feel the same way...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3268864,00.html

Toronto Star reports United Church of Canada's Toronto branch to unveil boycott of Israeli products, companies doing business with its military to end what it calls �illegal occupation of Palestinian lands�; plan calls on Ottawa to require that products originating in the occupied territories be labeled differently from those coming from the rest of Israel

Does this make you happier? Does it make you feel more right? Less alone?

Boaz.

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 2): I'd love to have him describe his opinions on legion of Palestinian suicide bombers

Really? Well what's your opinion of a country that steals the land and kills the civilians of it's neighbour? You're against suicide bombings but don't have a problem with Israel using war planes and tanks against refugee camps?

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7): against refugee camps?

Ok ok ok, is Gaza a refugee camp or is it now a city?

Boaz.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 8): Ok ok ok, is Gaza a refugee camp or is it now a city?

So bombing and killing in refugees is frowned upon but cities are fair game? Lucky Israel, perhaps they can take another pop at Beirut as well. They killed 11,000 Lebanese there last time.

Well that was a silly and ignorant comment to make wasn't it (by the Irish M.P.)

The fact is, the UK or US or France , Germany etc do anything even remotely close to blatant disregard for civilian life like Israel does, they would be (rightly) completely isolated politiclly, economicaly and militarily. Of Course, pointing this out gets you branded as anti-semitic, completely forgetting that Israel is a secular country with a fast growing non-jewish minority.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 9): So bombing and killing in refugees is frowned upon but cities are fair game?

Now where did you get this from my post? Did I quote anything containing the bombing of innocent people?

No civilians should die, but in war civilian deaths unfortunately perish. But the Palestinians are the only ones willing to kamikaze its own public to obtain G-d knows what.

Jacobin, more people agree with the Irish guy:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3269498,00.html

Thousands of angry Turks burn Israeli flags, chant pro-Hamas slogans Friday in protest against Israel's offensive in Gaza Strip; in Egypt, thousands rally in one of Egypt's main mosques, many calling on Arab governments to take action to protect Palestinians

You must really feel your case is being handled well, they are now officially burning flags, Israeli this time!

Boaz.

Quoting Evomutant (Reply 11): Israel is a secular country

well, I would say it is NOT a secular country. To me it is THE "Jewish" country by self-definition. That the Arab-Muslim share of the Israeli population is happily growing and that sizeable towns like Akko are inside "Israel-proper" and are Arab towns in this context is very strange. But encouraging in so far as happily proving that an Arab-Israeli living-together, or at least a peaceful co-existence IS possible

Quoting Windshear (Reply 12): the Palestinians are the only ones willing to kamikaze its own public

"THE" ? you possibly mean SOME ? not all those who voted Hamas were/are in favour of the extremist approach and most who did, did not really want a Hamas majority but a blow to el-Fatah. a small but very important difference.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 12): Thousands of angry Turks burn Israeli flags, chant pro-Hamas slogans Friday in protest against Israel's offensive in Gaza Strip

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14): not all those who voted Hamas were/are in favour of the extremist approach and most who did, did not really want a Hamas majority but a blow to el-Fatah. a small but very important difference.

They still got what they voted for, yes? If they voted for Hamas, they voted for Hamas. It's sounding like there was some great conspiracy amongst voters to vote only a little for Hamas, but not a lot. How do those things get arranged, pray tell?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15): They still got what they voted for, yes?

no, it is quite apparent that many only "voted for" a bit of a slap against el-Fatah but did NOT get what they wanted. There often is a difference between what people vote and what people want. The so-called protest-vote.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15): If they voted for Hamas, they voted for Hamas.

not in that way.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15): great conspiracy amongst voters to vote only a little for Hamas, but not a lot. How do those things get arranged, pray tell?

quite to the contrary. Had the voters HAD the chance to conspire about it, Hamas would have got 45% of the seats in parliament, thereby forcing el-Fatah to form a coalition. It is virtually impossible to arrange such things.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16): no, it is quite apparent that many only "voted for" a bit of a slap against el-Fatah but did NOT get what they wanted. There often is a difference between what people vote and what people want. The so-called protest-vote.

I hate to break the news to you, but the only protest vote is the vote that's not cast. If the Palestinians voted a Hamas majority, then they voted for a Hamas majority.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17): but the only protest vote is the vote that's not cast.

no, in parliamentary elections the only protest vote is the vote that IS cast !

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18): no, in parliamentary elections the only protest vote is the vote that IS cast !

Well then you're going to have to explain that concept to me. I always thought when I put a checkmark next to someone's name it meant I wanted them in office.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter): Kind of says it all when a "neutral" party make such comments:

Neutral? Sinn Fein..neutral? Who are you trying to kid? It's the mouthpiece for a neutered terrorist organization that still calls for ....well take a look at this

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5): As well as "Sinn Féin, the only all-Ireland party, is committed to achieving a 32-County democratic socialist republic and the end of British rule in Ireland."

I'd say that sort of says it all.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7): Really? Well what's your opinion of a country that steals the land and kills the civilians of it's neighbour?

You mean like all those Arab nations that surrounded Israel in 1947? Or the folks in Southern Lebanon who were showering rockets on Israeli civilians?

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7): You're against suicide bombings but don't have a problem with Israel using war planes and tanks against refugee camps

If you're referring to the refugee camp in Lebanon that was bombed it was harboring tanks then perhaps you are not looking at the entire picture.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 9): Lucky Israel, perhaps they can take another pop at Beirut as well. They killed 11,000 Lebanese there last time.

They were responding to the constant killing of Israelis in northern Israel by terror attacks from rockets and mortars. The Lebanese were unable or unwilling to stop it so the Israelis did it for them.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16): Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15): If they voted for Hamas, they voted for Hamas. not in that way

There is only one way to vote. You pull the lever and the side that got the most levers pulled wins. The Palestineans voted for a terrorist organization that distributes food. It'd be like little Italy New York in 1933 voting for the local Godfather because he gets things done for them (while keeping them under his heel).

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18): Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17): but the only protest vote is the vote that's not cast. no, in parliamentary elections the only protest vote is the vote that IS cast !

So..your point is? Did they ask for this trouble or not? When will the Palestineans take responsibility for the fact that they are the root cause of almost all their own troubles. They were thrown out of Jordan and other countries because they caused nothing but trouble, they left their homes in Israel because they decided that the Arabs were coming to kill the Jews and they would be able to return....they chose not to return and claimed that they were forced out and would be massacred if they returned and spent the next 60 years demanding that someone take care of them. They supported terrorists and danced in the streets when their enemies were harmed in any way. Until they realize that they are responsible for their own future and that they aren't going to win a war they will continue to be abused by their own leaders who want nothing more than to ensure their own power bases for whatever reasons they have.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1): Says it all? Just exactly what do you think it says?

Its stated in plain vanilla English..there is nothing more to "hidden messages"...the Israeli Govt. are detestable....  

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3): well, two things come to my mind. First of all, the Irish are well-known as nice and positive but somewhat high-tempered folks. Second, the fiery and emotional and rethorically flamboyant approach may be fascinating, but seldom provides solutions.

true...but one doesn't see too many harsh words regarding the Israeli Govt. by other party representatives..

I have lots of Irish friends...some of the nicest people around... 

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5): Now here is an unbiased, fact laden source, thanks Jacobin.

You are welcome...maybe some here don't want to hear the truth....I only criticism about other Arab and Muslim Govts...for which A.net is extremely biased towards...

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14): well, I would say it is NOT a secular country. To me it is THE "Jewish" country by self-definition. That the Arab-Muslim share of the Israeli population is happily growing and that sizeable towns like Akko are inside "Israel-proper" and are Arab towns in this context is very strange. But encouraging in so far as happily proving that an Arab-Israeli living-together, or at least a peaceful co-existence IS possible

  ..it is NOT secular...the Israeli govt. has created as quasi-apartheid state based on ideologies/religion/race..

Quoting DL021 (Reply 20): Neutral? Sinn Fein..neutral? Who are you trying to kid? It's the mouthpiece for a neutered terrorist organization that still calls for ....well take a look at this

hence my "neutral" comment...regardless...they are representatives of the Irish Govt...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21): the Israeli Govt. are detestable...

If you say so... it's almost compliment.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21): Its stated in plain vanilla English..there is nothing more to "hidden messages"...the Israeli Govt. are detestable....

Detestable is a sliding scale. Are Hamas a detestable government when they send people into Israel to blow up busloads of old folks? Was Black September detestable when they murdered athletes at the Olympics. Was the PLO detestable because they seemed to damn them faintly with a "boys will be boys" attitude? Are Hamas a detestable government when their operatives fire rockets at civilians just trying to go about their daily affairs?

They're all detestable for the same fucking reason, my friend. The facts of the matter are that the writ of some MP from Bumfuck, Ireland doesn't run very far on the mean streets of Gaza and what goes on there. It just doesn't command the attention of anyone on the scene.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21): have lots of Irish friends...some of the nicest people around...

Yep...used to say that around here too "Me? Some of my best friends are nigrahs".

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter): Statement issued by Aengus Ó Snodaigh Sinn Fein member

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter): Kind of says it all when a "neutral" party make such comments:

Yes, says it all. Sinn Fein is after all the political wing of the IRA terrorist (now turned Mafia style) organisation, which used to have close ties with Palaestinian and other terrorists from the Middle East (remember the arms and explosives shipment from Ghadaffi, which was found on a freighter in the 1980s?).

Jan

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14): "THE" ? you possibly mean SOME ? not all those who voted Hamas were/are in favour of the extremist approach and most who did, did not really want a Hamas majority but a blow to el-Fatah. a small but very important difference.

I mean THE Palestinians...
How many voted for a "party" that has been acting on a Fatwa made by one of its founders, Sheik Ahmed Yassin?

Have you by any chance seen pictures from the Palestinian areas? Even in East Jerusalem you will see this, posters and placards with coverings of nice and stylish shaheed pics, all with guns and Al Aqsa in the background, really tacky, but I guess if you are mushy enough for the shaheedi concept, it is all in very good taste.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21): it is NOT secular...the Israeli govt. has created as quasi-apartheid state based on ideologies/religion/race.

Rubbish! Utter and stinky smelly propaganda'd rubbish!

Boaz.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22): If you say so... it's almost compliment.

..sure..whatever..  ..

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 23): Yep...used to say that around here too "Me? Some of my best friends are nigrahs".

I'm not going to comment on that..  

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 23): Detestable is a sliding scale. Are Hamas a detestable government when they send people into Israel to blow up busloads of old folks? Was Black September detestable when they murdered athletes at the Olympics. Was the PLO detestable because they seemed to damn them faintly with a "boys will be boys" attitude? Are Hamas a detestable government when their operatives fire rockets at civilians just trying to go about their daily affairs?

You might be correct (that's debatable)..when one group has the latest firearms and technology, and the other group is being treated like a caged animal with nothing to fight with, as well as their dignity, property, and life being assaulted on a continuous/daily basis..I can't blame them sending people to Israel...The deaths of women/children/elderly is extremely skewed towards the Palistinians...its just that when a suicide bomber does something, it gets more press....

regarding "Black September"...I can't say I condone that kind of action..  

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 23): They're all detestable for the same fucking reason, my friend. The facts of the matter are that the writ of some MP from Bumfuck, Ireland doesn't run very far on the mean streets of Gaza and what goes on there. It just doesn't command the attention of anyone on the scene.

True..regardless of being right or wrong, Sinn Fein have stood up against a larger and more potent govt....I think that is where he was making the analogy to......

Israel doesn't play fair, why should others?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): True..regardless of being right or wrong, Sinn Fein have stood up against a larger and more potent govt.

And knowing this prior to posting, you still claimed they were a neutral source.

That pretty much blows your credibility on this issue.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): regarding "Black September"...I can't say I condone that kind of action.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): Israel doesn't play fair, why should others?

He he ma habibi, you've tumbled in your own oppinions!

Aaaaanyways, what happened to civilian Palestinians in Jordan after they became violent?

What happened to the Egyptian Luxor terrorists and their families and friends after the attacks in Luxor?

Arab nations are very very rough, Israel is nada compared to how Arab countries deal with their own troubles, so according to your logic, this would give Israel quite some field pitch.

Oh and just how have the Arab neighbors tackled the Palestinian refugees? How about Lebanon, how are they doing there? It is so so easy to pick on the scape goat- the common enemy among all Arab nations, I mean at least considder this to be a motive and reason for this disasterous dilemma.

Boaz.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): True..regardless of being right or wrong, Sinn Fein have stood up against a larger and more potent govt....I think that is where he was making the analogy to......

That's what I was thinking as well. Sinn Fein's ties to terrorist IRA are well documented, therefore it's hardly surpising they have "special place" in their hearts for fellow terrorists in Palestine.

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 2): I'd love to have him describe his opinions on legion of Palestinian suicide bombers, especially since their "democratically" elected Palestinian government is the main sponsor of them.

He probably thinks they are glorious freedom fighters.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7): Really? Well what's your opinion of a country that steals the land and kills the civilians of it's neighbour? You're against suicide bombings but don't have a problem with Israel using war planes and tanks against refugee camps?

Both sides have blood on their hands. But if Hamas were to recognize Israel, and stop the suicide bombings, why would Israel need to send in the tanks?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14): They still got what they voted for, yes? If they voted for Hamas, they voted for Hamas. It's sounding like there was some great conspiracy amongst voters to vote only a little for Hamas, but not a lot. How do those things get arranged, pray tell?

  

Neutral.   

The IRA used to TRAIN in the Middle East with these same terrorist, Jacobin. And you want us to really believe they're "neutral".

That's rich.

But the same old terror-hugging crowd is out in form again. Maybe it's time to reopen business of the T.H.I. on this forum. It hasn't been active for a few years. But it seems to have a growing membership on here.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 29): Both sides have blood on their hands. But if Hamas were to recognize Israel, and stop the suicide bombings, why would Israel need to send in the tanks?

This is the most logical conclusion, yes.   

Boaz.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20): the Israeli Govt. are detestable

i think you are, but i don't go and start threads about it

[Edited 2006-06-30 20:41:27]

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): Israel doesn't play fair, why should others?

When did fairness have anything to do with survival?

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 33): Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25): Israel doesn't play fair, why should others? When did fairness have anything to do with survival?

"Fair" to new T.H.I. members like Jacobin is for Israel to willingly let itself get blown to bits, a little at a time, by people with munitions strapped to their waist; "fair" to him mean Israel doesn't defend itself when rockets are launched from Lebanon, or from Gaza, or anywhere; "fair" to him means simply the destruction of Israel, and the deaths, if need be, of millions of Jews.

That's the only thing "fair" to people like him.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 34): That's the only thing "fair" to people like him.

Unfair to him is when Israel wins, fair is when "the others" win, at least that is how I rate him.

Boaz.

So I'm officially re-starting the Terrorist Huggers International.

I will not name a "board of directors", or a "Management Team" like I did a few years ago, because that will probably get deleted-maybe the mods can give me some guidance on that one.

But we all know who makes up THI these days.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 24): Rubbish! Utter and stinky smelly propaganda'd rubbish!

wrong..its well documented...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26): And knowing this prior to posting, you still claimed they were a neutral source.

I said "right or wrong"....

Quoting EDKA (Reply 32): i think you are, but i don't go and start threads about it

thanks for your valuable input..  

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 33): When did fairness have anything to do with survival?

"survival", "human rights abuse", "illegal occupation", and "torture" need not be used exclusively....no one is arguing Israel doesn't have a right to exist...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 34): "Fair" to new T.H.I. members like Jacobin is for Israel to willingly let itself get blown to bits, a little at a time, by people with munitions strapped to their waist; "fair" to him mean Israel doesn't defend itself when rockets are launched from Lebanon, or from Gaza, or anywhere; "fair" to him means simply the destruction of Israel, and the deaths, if need be, of millions of Jews.

Israel has been illegaly been occupying land for decades, violating tons of human rights, violating intrnational law.....

and to say "fair" means "destruction of of Israel" and "need be, of millions of deaths of Jews" has to be one of the most asinine comments on A.net..not to mention, some kind of perverse sense of thinking..

did I say "killing of Jews, destruction of Israel"..? NO..but what I did say was that Israel should stop all its illegal activities such as "land grab", "collective punishment", etc.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 35): Unfair to him is when Israel wins, fair is when "the others" win, at least that is how I rate him.

each to himself....

what I say "isn't fair" is one country occupying land which belongs to others, commits tons of human rights abuse as well as violates tons of international law then says its "defending itself"....

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 29): He probably thinks they are glorious freedom fighters.

sure...  ..but thanks for telling me as to what I think. 

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 29): Both sides have blood on their hands. But if Hamas were to recognize Israel, and stop the suicide bombings, why would Israel need to send in the tanks?

Hamas is beginning the process of recognising Israel..they had an "unofficial" truce with Israel, even while Israel still committing human rights abuse as well as wanton destruction of property, infrastructure, etc....

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):And knowing this prior to posting, you still claimed they were a neutral source. I said "right or wrong"....

That would be a "cop out".

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): ting Falcon84 (Reply 34): "Fair" to new T.H.I. members like Jacobin is for Israel to willingly let itself get blown to bits, a little at a time, by people with munitions strapped to their waist; "fair" to him mean Israel doesn't defend itself when rockets are launched from Lebanon, or from Gaza, or anywhere; "fair" to him means simply the destruction of Israel, and the deaths, if need be, of millions of Jews. Israel has been illegaly been occupying land for decades, violating tons of human rights, violating intrnational law.....

You didn't answer the query, man. Do you, or do you not want Israel destroyed? Even if it means the deaths of a few million Jews? Be a man, and tell us!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): and to say "fair" means "destruction of of Israel" and "need be, of millions of deaths of Jews" has to be one of the most asinine comments on A.net..not to mention, some kind of perverse sense of thinking.. did I say "killing of Jews, destruction of Israel"..? NO..but what I did say was that Israel should stop all its illegal activities such as "land grab", "collective punishment", etc.

Yet your only answer is violence. Sheer, unadulterated violence. The Arab/Islamic people can't get past that. They can't grow beyond that concept.

You still haven't answered that basic point.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): at I say "isn't fair" is one country occupying land which belongs to others, commits tons of human rights abuse as well as violates tons of international law then says its "defending itself"....

What about the "human rights' abuse" of blowing up civilians, deliberatly? You always seem to brush that aside, and, it seems, you think that's "fair". Amazing.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): Hamas is beginning the process of recognising Israel..they had an "unofficial" truce with Israel, even while Israel still committing human rights abuse as well as wanton destruction of property, infrastructure, etc....

..even while Hamas helps kidnap an Israeli soldier, and supports rocket attacks on Israeli territory...

You always ignore the other part of the equation.

Welcome to THI.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5): Now here is an unbiased, fact laden source, thanks Jacobin.

Sort of like all those glorious and unbiased sources you use. You know, J-Post and the like.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30): But the same old terror-hugging crowd is out in form again.

And it looks like the blind crowd that can't get their heads around the idea of complete seperation of church and state or constitutionalism because of their own twisted sense of nationalism is out in force.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40): Sort of like all those glorious and unbiased sources you use. You know, J-Post and the like.

I don't recall using The Post as a source. I know that "the other side" would see it as being biased.

Now, I do use RTE, but that's another story!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): Hamas is beginning the process of recognising Israel..they had an "unofficial" truce with Israel, even while Israel still committing human rights abuse as well as wanton destruction of property, infrastructure, etc....

"unofficial truce?"    what a joke.

It's really very simple. The head of government holds a press conference where he announces the following "we hereby recognize Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state. From this point forward, it is the stated policy of this government to seek peaceful means of resolving our differences with Israel. Yes, it will take some time for us to get the troops in line, but I declare a unilateral cease fire, ask Israel to do likewise, and show forbearance as we struggle to get our internal house in order."

He does that, and in one moment retakes the moral high ground, and puts Israel on the defensive.

Is it just me, or is it a bit odd that Jacobin's signature line is a quote from a jew?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): Hamas is beginning the process of recognising Israel..they had an "unofficial" truce with Israel, even while Israel still committing human rights abuse as well as wanton destruction of property, infrastructure, etc....

"A Hamas spokesman said the group would never recognise Israel, in spite of a deal its leaders signed this week offering implicit recognition of the Jewish state in return for easing an economic blockade......the Popular Resistance Committees pledged to seize more hostages in the West Bank.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...0%2C20867%2C19645805-601%2C00.html

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 43): Is it just me, or is it a bit odd that Jacobin's signature line is a quote from a jew?

No, I think that is the point

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40): And it looks like the blind crowd that can't get their heads around the idea of complete seperation of church and state or constitutionalism because of their own twisted sense of nationalism is out in force.

What are you talking about? What the hell does that mean, or have to do with this subject.

Trust me, I'm a center-left liberal, and I definitely want a clear line between Church and State, dude. But that's for another thread. Start one if you want.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46): Trust me, I'm a center-left liberal, and I definitely want a clear line between Church and State, dude.

Yet you support a state like Israel that is founded on exactly the opposite idea? Israel can't even write itself a constitution because of its religious stance.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46): What are you talking about? What the hell does that mean, or have to do with this subject.

It has everything to do with all these nauseating Middle East threads.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): wrong..its well documented...

no it is not, care to change my mind?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): what I say "isn't fair" is one country occupying land which belongs to others, commits tons of human rights abuse as well as violates tons of international law then says its "defending itself".

Oh ok I see, sounds rather noble, but if you are hinting towards Israel, what land did they occupy which belongs to others, and under what conditions? The rest of it is pure spinning, propaganda linguistic mumbo jumbo.

Lastly how can "defending itself" be a joke or a lie, what do you mean??

Oh and BTW Shabbat Shalom to all of you out there!
Boaz.

[Edited 2006-06-30 22:52:28]

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18): no, in parliamentary elections the only protest vote is the vote that IS cast ! Well then you're going to have to explain that concept to me. I always thought when I put a checkmark next to someone's name it meant I wanted them in office.

-
no, you for instance in Switzerland, where I live, can put a whole list of 30 people, into the box, just to show that you wish them well, while knowing that they have zero chance to get into office. In many places in Britain you can "vote" liberal and clearly know that either the Tory or the Labour will get your voting-zone and go to parliament. So, to "vote" for someone you do NOT wish to have in office is quite common.
-
-

Quoting Windshear (Reply 24): Rubbish! Utter and stinky smelly propaganda'd rubbish!

-
the State-of-Israel is by its own definition THE Jewish state, and so of course a religiously defined country and NOT secularist at all. That Arab-Muslim-Israelis have an increasing share in this country is strange, but only possible, as much of this very same country in many ways IS secularist. So that Israel in a way is the "quadratisation of the circle" or in other words a secularist theocratist state --- or just the contrary of this ? I mean the other way round ? you get it ?