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ly7e7
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:54 pm

Levent,

I will disregard you preverted view on history and only address issues relevant to today's happenings.

Quoting Levent (Reply 98):
What stops them of pinpointing the exact locations from where Hezbollah launches rockets?

Nothing. the locations are known. That's why IDF has asked the lebanese civilians to leave their homes. Homes that are hosting Hezbollah weapons.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
windshear
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Texan (Reply 99):
On the other hand, rooting for Lebanon might completely screw over my chances of ever fucking around with Natalie Portman, who is Israeli.

Ha ha if only it was a conflict on this level... Oh my G-d imagine  cloudnine 

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
ly7e7
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:06 pm

Quoting Texan (Reply 99):
I will admit I'm torn between the two sides. On the one hand, my ex-girlfriend, who is a wonderful human being, is from Lebanon and I wish only the best for her. On the other hand, rooting for Lebanon might completely screw over my chances of ever fucking around with Natalie Portman, who is Israeli. So do I base my judgement on past fun times with Cathy (many fun times...nevermind) or a possible future with Natalie Portman, her laying nude across me on the bed of our house that she bought in the Caribbean? After careful consideration, I want to screw Natalie Portman twice a night more than I want Kathy's ego to stay intact. Therefore, I think that Israel is in the right, and that such a blanket statement should pacify those in Congress who would villify me as well as Natalie Portman, who should call me forthwith.

Texan

Hehe, that's a good one !
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
TACAA320
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 95):
On the Seventh day...

He rest. Period.
Please don't play with the sacred scriptures.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
TNNH
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:01 pm

jaysit- your wrong. saudi doesn't fund hezballah. hezb is shiite, saudis are wahhabist sunnis. theres no love lost btwn the two. all hezb financing comes from iran and syria.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 93):
Israel killed a whole family on the beach at Gaza

A complete MULTINATIONAL investigation and post-mortem examination of this incident has already been conducted and ALL agree that the cause of this unfortunate tragedy were land mines----and they certainly were not put there by Israel.

The continual scapegoating of Israel and of European Jews by multiple groups simultaneously, the systematic shedding of Jewish-Israeli civilian blood, has reached a dangerous, contagious level. Even as civilian Israel is attacked literally EVERY DAY, the anti-semites deny that this is so and falsely accuse Israel of atrocities that it has NOT committed.

The war against Jews is being waged on many fronts, militarily, politically, economically, and through PROPAGANDA and on ALL continents. In my opinion, anyone who denys that this is so or blames the Jews for provoking the attacks is clearly an anti-semite. Anyone who falsely accuses Israel of committing atrocities it has NOT committed is an anti-semite. Anyone who cannot talk about Israel's mistakes, failures, and imperfections without DEMONIZING Israel is an anti-semite. As though finding a way to compare Israel to the Nazi's of the past somehow lessens the guilt and anger these blatant anti-semites harbor. Hatred truly poisons the soul.

For years many Europeans resented being blamed for the Holocaust----even more so if their parents and grandparents were Nazi perpetrators or collaborators. For centuries Islamic Arabia persecuted its own Jewish citizens: imagine their outrage when those very citizens found refuge from such persecution in a nearby Jewish state, one that Muslims also viewed as a Western infidel intrusion.

What is clear is that todays anti-semite is also an anti-zionist, that is, someone who is willing to deny a national refuge to only one group on the whole planet-----the Jews.
They assume that EVERY other group on Earth deserves its own nation, no matter how barbaric its leaders and citizens may be.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
rolfen
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts.

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:10 pm

To the lebanese gouvernement:
Quit trying to outsmart the whole world. Just do your duty.
rolf
 
TACAA320
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting TNNH (Reply 104):
jaysit- your wrong. saudi doesn't fund hezballah. hezb is shiite, saudis are wahhabist sunnis.

You're right.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9155/
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
NAV20
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 105):
They assume that EVERY other group on Earth deserves its own nation

ImperialEagle, do you see being Jewish as a religion or a nationality? It can't be both?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
ly7e7
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 106):
Quit trying to outsmart the whole world. Just do your duty.

 checkmark 

No one is preventing the Lebanese government from sending army regiments to the south right now. IDF will not target them.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
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casinterest
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 109):
No one is preventing the Lebanese government from sending army regiments to the south right now. IDF will not target them.

well here is the crux of the problem. Lebanon needs to go to war. It has avoided civil war by appeasing terrorists.

Israel has basically just thrown down the guantlet to Lebanon's governemnt, and will fight Hezbollah where Lebanon has failed to do so.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
soups
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 109):
IDF will not target them.

they just target places where civilians happen to be
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
ly7e7
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 111):
they just target places where civilians happen to be

They target infrastraucture, hezbollah HQs and weapons sites. Some of those are hosted by civilians. those civilians were warned by IDF and asked to move to the north of the country. Unfortunately some loss of civilians lives seems to be unavoidable. Same is true for civilians in Israel (that are openly targeted by Hezbollah).
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
NAV20
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 110):
Lebanon needs to go to war.

Unfortunately that looks only too possible. There are some 20,000 Australian residents in Lebanon, mostly as tourists or visiting relatives. Young men of military age who are still Lebanese nationals, or have dual nationality, are not being allowed to leave and are being told that they may be conscripted.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
slider
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 95):
Am wondering, is this war really against Hizbullah? Hizbullah is in fact gaining popularity amongst the lebanese right now! Hizbullah right now is winning another ten years of military existence in Lebanon!



Quoting Rolfen (Reply 106):
To the lebanese gouvernement:
Quit trying to outsmart the whole world. Just do your duty.



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 110):
well here is the crux of the problem. Lebanon needs to go to war. It has avoided civil war by appeasing terrorists.

Israel has basically just thrown down the guantlet to Lebanon's governemnt, and will fight Hezbollah where Lebanon has failed to do so.

To all the points above, spot on.

The Lebanese government has utterly failed, by trying to appease Hizbollah, allow them to be active in their government, while denouncing their terrorism. Even Hariri was complicit in this, saying that he felt Hizbollah was the deterrent against Israeli occupation of Lebanon, which is utterly ridiculous.

It's funny that Israel has given back MORE land, made MORE compromises and tried to broker land-for-peace deals, and has nothing to show for it.

Meanwhile, Lebanon has been the dancing puppet, at the end of Iran's strings. Syria has outfitted them, Iran has directed them, and Hizbollah has executed on them. The people of Lebanon deserve better but will not get it until they denounce the farcical elections of officially sanctioning terrorism.

Kidnapping Israeli soldiers ON THEIR TURF is something that shakes Israel to it's very core.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 55):
Jews can stop worrying about themselves, most of the arab countries now acknowledge the state of Israel.

We the Palestinians don't. They stole our land. We will have it back, maybe in the form of a bi-national state, but the racist exclusive Jewish state is temporary until liberty and equality is given to all. If the Jews occupied Lebanon (part of "Eretz Israel") and claimed it as theirs, after driving you out (just as happening today!), would you sit back and surrender?

Captain, I suggest you focus your typing energies on promoting a quick exit of the Israeli forces from your country. TRUST me they've had their eyes on your Southern lands for a while. Too bad the Lebanese resistance is being blamed / labelled / cornered as the villains, when the Zionists are the true culprits in this region.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
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casinterest
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 115):
Too bad the Lebanese resistance is being blamed / labelled / cornered as the villains, when the Zionists are the true culprits in this region.

See Eurostar VA, this is where your argument goes down the tubes.

You argue from a religious point of view instead of nationalism, and terrorism that currently is an issue in the middle east.

If you want to go back in history, nothing changed but countries. Arabs and the Hebrews were fighting in this area long before Israel was established. The only thing that changed was that the international community attempted to get the tensions eased by sending everyone to their seperate corners. the international community accepted it, but the Arab countries didn't.
Now we are still left with countries and people that still promote Ahilation instead of peace and prosperity.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 114):
It's funny that Israel has given back MORE land, made MORE compromises and tried to broker land-for-peace deals, and has nothing to show for it.

But truly a real shame for the Arabs who want peace...

Quoting Slider (Reply 114):
Kidnapping Israeli soldiers ON THEIR TURF is something that shakes Israel to it's very core.

Indeed.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 114):
It's funny that Israel has given back MORE land, made MORE compromises and tried to broker land-for-peace deals, and has nothing to show for it.

Which lands? I presume not the West Bank but that Gaza Strip of land, which Israel continued to strangle by restricting movement by airspace/overland/sea. Besides, the Israelis evacuated 6,000 fanatics from this Palestinian territory of 1.5million inhabitants. So was that an end to occupation? Get real, credit is only given when it's deserved.

The only way out of this for Israeli jews is to accept the legitimate demands of Palestinians in the holy land. Namely a viable 2-state solution, possibly paving way for a bi-national state.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 114):
Kidnapping Israeli soldiers ON THEIR TURF is something that shakes Israel to it's very core

Kidnapping half of the ELECTED Palestinian government ministers and parliament speaker shakes the Palestinian democracy and the civilized world to its very core.

Give up your propaganda!
If there is a will, there is a way
 
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casinterest
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 119):
Kidnapping half of the ELECTED Palestinian government ministers and parliament speaker shakes the Palestinian democracy and the civilized world to its very core.

These were elected terrorists that promote genocide, and did not work to prevent terrorism.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 120):
These were elected terrorists that promote genocide, and did not work to prevent terrorism

That is your side of the story. Of course your "terrorists" are our freedom fighters - clean from the corruption of the previous government.

In any case, they were elected by the people.

Of course any person reading this would realize that Israel through kidnapping elected officials is creating a very dangerous precedent in the world.

We shall prevail, until we get back all our lands. Obviously, the Zionist project has failed.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 121):
Obviously, the Zionist project has failed.

HAHA, what a post. The Zionist project has failed...Yet Israel has the best man-for-man military in the world, is one of the most high-tech countries, is the only democracy in the Middle East, shall I continue?

Name me one major contribution that the Arabs have given to the world in the past century, besides airplane hijacking of course.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:02 am

What does bombing the airport and city infrastructure of innocent people have to do with getting back at terrorists?
 
soups
Posts: 3259
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 123):
What does bombing the airport and city infrastructure of innocent people have to do with getting back at terrorists

this will increase their numbers
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
slider
Posts: 7694
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 119):
Kidnapping half of the ELECTED Palestinian government ministers and parliament speaker shakes the Palestinian democracy and the civilized world to its very core.

Give up your propaganda!

If you intellectually evaluated my statement, you'd realize that in context of all Israelis serving in the military, that this is dinner table conversation everywhere. They were lifted from their land. Given the size of Israel, 6 million surrounded by 350 million Palestinians, most of which want them to cease to exist, I'd say that your view of propaganda is seriously skewed.

We're not going to change hearts here, I know that. But it's especially disingenuous when the mind refuses to even engage on the issue.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 121):
Of course your "terrorists" are our freedom fighters -

I'm surprised it took 120 posts for that precious little chestnut to be posted.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 122):
Yet Israel has the best man-for-man military in the world, is one of the most high-tech countries, is the only democracy in the Middle East, shall I continue?

I did a Google search on "middle east democracies" and this was the second hit on the list:

By Neve Gordon, who teaches politics at Ben-Gurion University Israel:

http://www.counterpunch.org/gordon02032004.html

"Anyone who follows the news has no doubt come across the claim that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East." Usually, this claim is followed by its logical inference: "As an island of freedom located in a region controlled by military dictators, feudal kings and religious leaders, Israel should receive unreserved support from western liberal states interested in strengthening democratic values around the globe."

Over the years, some of the fallacies informing this line of argument have been exposed. Whereas many commentators have emphasized that foreign policy is determined by selfish interests rather than by moral dictates, few analysts have challenged the prevailing view that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

In order to examine this issue, one must first determine Israel's international borders. Insofar as Israel's borders extend from the Jordan Valley to the Mediterranean Sea -- the de-facto situation for over 36 years -- then the state of Israel currently consists of a population of over 9 million people, 3.5 million of whom cannot vote.

De-facto, then, Israel is not a democracy. One-third of the demos does not enjoy a series of basic rights which make up the pillars of liberal democracies. The state of Israel has existed for 55 years and has controlled the Palestinian population in the occupied territories without giving them political rights for two-thirds of this period. Accordingly, the notion that the occupation is provisional or temporary should, by now, be considered an illusion concealing the reality on the ground.

If, however, one chooses to explore the issue exclusively from a de-jure perspective, that is, from inside the internationally recognized pre-1967 territories, it is still unclear to what extent Israel is a democracy."
International Homo of Mystery
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 126):
I did a Google search on "middle east democracies" and this was the second hit on the list:

Point? You could find plenty of American professors claiming that the United States isn't a democracy and other outrageous notions, but this doesn't make it true now does it Westy?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
777fan
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 29):
Very simple move all the Jews to the USA (Texas or so) and all the Muslims to Saudi Arabia (both countries are the biggest supporters behind the scene) and tear the whole area down and put a huge fence around it.

How 'bout we move all Dutch to Madacasgar? What a ridiculous statement - I hope you were kidding...
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
TACAA320
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:37 am

Voices of hate. This is sad... Sad

"Long live Hezbollah, death to Israel," chanted youths."

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au...ge/0,5936,19774212%255E401,00.html
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 127):
Point?

Simply an alternate view on your statements, since Lebanon is also a democracy in the region, which in previous posts you've dismissed.
International Homo of Mystery
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 130):
Simply an alternate view on your statements, since Lebanon is also a democracy in the region, which in previous posts you've dismissed.

It takes more than having an election to be a democracy. Anyone who took Comparative Politics 101 could tell you that.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 128):
Quoting Lijnden (Reply 29):
Very simple move all the Jews to the USA (Texas or so) and all the Muslims to Saudi Arabia (both countries are the biggest supporters behind the scene) and tear the whole area down and put a huge fence around it.

How 'bout we move all Dutch to Madacasgar? What a ridiculous statement - I hope you were kidding...

I say, we turn over the entire Middle East to Frank Lorenzo. Let him merge all the countries together, file for Chapter 11, fire all of the oil workers, and form the first low-cost sub-continent. This way all those people will be happy just earning 5 dollars a day, they won't have time to think about fighting each other.

I'm sick of the entire story....which side is more evil, which side is more wrong can be debated forever. Just stop the BS and get down to a road map for a peaceful solution.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 131):
It takes more than having an election to be a democracy.

That's quite true, but if you look at it on shear access to voting, Lebanon appears to be more of a democracy than Israel.
International Homo of Mystery
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 133):
That's quite true, but if you look at it on shear access to voting, Lebanon appears to be more of a democracy than Israel.

False, every Israeli citizen--be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or other--is able to vote in regular elections.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ly7e7
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 134):
False, every Israeli citizen--be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or other--is able to vote in regular elections.

 checkmark 
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 134):
False, every Israeli citizen--be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or other--is able to vote in regular elections.

And the 3.5 million who aren't allowed to vote because they've been under "temporary occupation" for over 50 years? What do they get to decide? This is an honest question. It's not clear to me from the article who they are. Simply the Palestinians? Others perhaps?

This is an opportunity to educate, rather than pop off platitudes. Plenty of bandwidth here, the floor is yours.
International Homo of Mystery
 
rolfen
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts.

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 121):
We shall prevail, until we get back all our lands. Obviously, the Zionist project has failed.

You guys are under the influence of some serious nazi/soviet style propaganda.

Where did you see the Zionist "project" failing? A dozen killed israelis, do you think that's gonna bring israel down?

[Edited 2006-07-16 20:07:53]
rolf
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 136):
And the 3.5 million who aren't allowed to vote because they've been under "temporary occupation" for over 50 years? What do they get to decide? This is an honest question. It's not clear to me from the article who they are. Simply the Palestinians? Others perhaps?

The article refers to Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza who don't have Israeli citizenship. The West Bank and Gaza have been under occupation since 1967, and the Palestinians there don't vote in Israeli elections because they are not Israeli citizens. Just like Iraqis and Afghanistanis don't vote in American elections.

And as we all know, Gaza is no longer under Israeli occupation and the people there are free to do as they want in their territory (the last two weeks of military action aside). Even Palestinians in the West Bank vote for their own government. And believe it or not, despite living under Israeli occupation, the Palestinians are the Arabs with the closest thing to a democracy (living next to Israel for 60 years and being familiar with Israeli Arab Knesset members has exposed them to democracy).

Up until a few months ago, I would have told you that once the Israeli occupation ends the Palestinians would have the first Arab democracy. But events in Gaza have proven me wrong.

[Edited 2006-07-16 20:12:20]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
halls120
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 133):
That's quite true, but if you look at it on shear access to voting, Lebanon appears to be more of a democracy than Israel.

Good for Lebanon that it is a better democracy than Israel. Too bad they haven't been able to control a heavily armed terrorist organization that conducts routine offensive operations in a neighboring country.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 138):
Up until a few months ago, I would have told you that once the Israeli occupation ends the Palestinians would have the first Arab democracy.

What is it about the voting in Lebanon that you reject as representing a democracy in comparison?
International Homo of Mystery
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 57):
Almost every muslim or mostly muslim country in the world is at war, civil or not. I think the issue is more about islam than Israel.

What a stupid comment.

UAE, Kuwait, Iran, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Indonesia, Malaysia, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia? Are they at war???? No

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 58):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 56):
Hezbollah are scum.

The Israeli government needs to take a class in basic negotiation skills. They're scum too.

Our so-called State Department are incompetent scum too. As is Syria. And we all know how scummy Iran and the Saudis who fund Hezbollah are. Yes, our dear friends the Saudis, who we can't control.

Glad to know that the US and Israel are on the same level as Hezbollah, Syria, and Saudi Arabia in your book....

I would agree in part with Jaysit here, the American government are scum but not quite as bad as the Israelis or Hezbollah.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 139):
Too bad they haven't been able to control a heavily armed terrorist organization that conducts routine offensive operations in a neighboring country.

In comparison, Israel has had since 1948 to develop its military, Lebanon has had a couple of years? Which would be stronger just by default? What can we expect from a new democracy? The strength of the United States or Russia? Please explain what you believe they should have by now in their short modern history.
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rjpieces
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 142):
In comparison, Israel has had since 1948 to develop its military, Lebanon has had a couple of years?

Are you familiar with the Altalena affair?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena_Affair
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AeroWesty
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 143):
Are you familiar with the Altalena affair?

No, I was not, but I don't see how that relates to my question that in the 21st century, what military capability Halls believes that Lebanon should have established in their short modern-day history.

(And you've left the earlier question posed to you unanswered.)
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vafi88
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:31 am

I'm wondering why all the lebanese on this website have a problem with Israel 'targeting civillians'... I mean, your country MAINLY kills israeli civillians...

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halls120
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 142):
In comparison, Israel has had since 1948 to develop its military, Lebanon has had a couple of years? Which would be stronger just by default? What can we expect from a new democracy? The strength of the United States or Russia? Please explain what you believe they should have by now in their short modern history.

What we can expect from a new democracy is that they should take appropriate measures to disarm a lawless terrorist organization that effectively holds their country captive.

If they can't do it alone, why not request outside assistance?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 146):
What we can expect from a new democracy is that they should take appropriate measures to disarm a lawless terrorist organization that effectively holds their country captive.

I agree with that assessment, and it's unfortunate that elections were held without prior disarmament. What I keep hearing is that "Lebanon should have done such-and-such or had this-and-that" and I'm asking you, as someone with military experience, and whose opinions I respect, what in your opinion they should have had all along. Are they lacking equipment? Training? If they are, why?
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:11 am

Pilotaydin,

I am curious as to what was said over the company frequency. Could you possibly share that with us? Who and what was said?

Thanks.
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halls120
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RE: Israel, Lebanon And This Conflict....thoughts...

Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 147):
I agree with that assessment, and it's unfortunate that elections were held without prior disarmament. What I keep hearing is that "Lebanon should have done such-and-such or had this-and-that" and I'm asking you, as someone with military experience, and whose opinions I respect, what in your opinion they should have had all along. Are they lacking equipment? Training? If they are, why?

I'm not completely up to speed on the capability of the Lebanese armed forces, but I doubt they have an overwhelming edge in capability over Hezbollah. Which is what they need to take on an opponent of this caliber. Otherwise, a debilitating civil war would have resulted. Which is why I think they should have sought outside assistance - other than Syrian assistance of course.

What really needs to happen in the middle east, IMO, is for the states that provide financial and weapons support to terrorist organizations to stop. Period. They need to sit the Hezbollah and Hamas leadership down and say look, as long as you keep lobbing missiles into Israel and sending suicide bombers into Israel, you abandon the moral high ground. No one will restrain Israel's response as long as you engage in this conduct. OTOH, you cease terrorist attacks on Israel, you officially recognize their right to exist, you have the moral high ground, and a huge outpouring of international support. Eventually, Israel would be pushed back to its pre 1967 borders, and there would be an independent Palestinian state.

But I think few arab and moslem leaders want this outcome. I think most arab and moslems want Israel eliminated.
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