bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 47):
BTW ANCFlyer and L-188, can you explain to me the difference between Alaskan dividends and a handout . Us down here in the lower 48s AND Hawaii don't receive such gifts from Uncle Sam.



Quoting KROC (Reply 48):
The dividend is based off of the state's oil royalty investment program not Uncle Sam...

I could be wrong though.


The Permanent Fund was created in the 70s when the state had a pretty large budget surplus from oil revenues. AK state constitution says the the natural resources in the state are owned by the residents of the state. Not the state government or corporations or whatever. So there was a large surplus, a few billion dollars at the time. It was invested and has since grown to over 30billion dollars. Today is actually the first payment day of the year. AK residents who get the early bird direct deposit. Mine will show up 10-19 I believe. It isnt from Uncle Sam, our money from the feds comes from Uncle Ted...as in Sen. Ted Stevens. It technically isnt the states money either. It belongs to the residents. The state just manages to investment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:43 am

As Well Hung said, do the fascist, discriminatory, authoritarian, human-rights-abuse Saudis fit better with your personal morals than accepting free oil from Hugo Chavez?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 51):
As Well Hung said, do the fascist, discriminatory, authoritarian, human-rights-abuse Saudis fit better with your personal morals than accepting free oil from Hugo Chavez?

You both make good points, I am certainly no fan of the Saudis, the fuel and gas that is consumed in my town is entirely a domestic product. It is pumped from the ground on the AK north slope, down the pipeline, shipped to the west coast, usually Washington. Then is shipped back up for consumption.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 51):
As Well Hung said, do the fascist, discriminatory, authoritarian, human-rights-abuse Saudis fit better with your personal morals than accepting free oil from Hugo Chavez?

First of all, I have never heard anyone hear defending the Saudis. I still have a question above (reply #49) that has not been answered.

Second of all, ask most hispanics and Venezuelans in this forum if your example of Saudi Arabia doesnt fit Venezuela's Chavez to a 'T' right now. But perhaps you Europeans know better than the lowly Hispanics.  sarcastic 
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:00 am

Bushpilot & KROC:
Thanks for the update.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 51):
As Well Hung said, do the fascist, discriminatory, authoritarian, human-rights-abuse Saudis fit better with your personal morals than accepting free oil from Hugo Chavez?

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
They don't like to hear that kind of talk. That would make these villagers look like dare I say.......hypocrits.  yes 

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 49):
And it is very nice how some managed to insert Bush bashing in this thread.

It's about oil and politics. Therefore....
Bring back the Concorde
 
MUWarriors
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 12:11 pm

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:00 am

I want to know how people think Alaskans sponge off of others. They normally pay for their heating oil, but they refused to take a free handout because of who was giving it to them. That is all. So some of the local people (fishermen, canneries, etc...) decided to provide them with the same handout. No government intervention at all. I have a friend who lives in Bethel, the hub of Southwest Alaska, relatively large town (4,000ish I think), he gets no government assistance, but to make ends meet he hunts/fishes. No sponging, subsistence living. He loves it. Some find it a paradise, but one they have to sacrifice to live in. So if someone could explain how Alaskans are sponging off others that would be appreciated.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 53):
I still have a question above (reply #49) that has not been answered.

Second of all, ask most hispanics and Venezuelans in this forum if your example of Saudi Arabia doesnt fit Venezuela's Chavez to a 'T' right now

So firstly you have an implicite defence of the Saudis (do you really need evidence that the country is a fascist dictatorship?) and then you suggest that Venezuela is as bad as Saudi Arabia.

So if Venezuela is as bad as Saudi Arabia, does that mean the noble Alaskans would turn down free oil from the Saudis, but be more than happy to pay for it?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 54):
Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
They don't like to hear that kind of talk. That would make these villagers look like dare I say.......hypocrits.

How so? By consuming Alaska's own fuel? Get it right before you start dumping your gasoline all over the place.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 52):
You both make good points, I am certainly no fan of the Saudis, the fuel and gas that is consumed in my town is entirely a domestic product. It is pumped from the ground on the AK north slope, down the pipeline, shipped to the west coast, usually Washington. Then is shipped back up for consumption.

Seeing as Bushpilot actually lives in these remote villages I'm willing to believe him.
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
So if Venezuela is as bad as Saudi Arabia, does that mean the noble Alaskans would turn down free oil from the Saudis, but be more than happy to pay for it?

A few things Ill point out, firstly, I dont care who is better or worse, I dont have anything against the people of Venezuala, but the Saudis dont seem to be very charitable or generous in general. Keep in mind, that the only reason a few folks are not accepting this gift is because of the way he(Chavez) criticized Bush. Most people here are not Bush supporters nor did they even know what Citgo is or Chavez was most people simply dont care, but we are Americans the same as anyone else, and dont appreciate him doing that.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
So firstly you have an implicite defence of the Saudis (do you really need evidence that the country is a fascist dictatorship?)

What part didnt you understand???

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 53):
I have never heard anyone hear defending the Saudis.

Was that not clear, did I say someplace anywhere that I defended them?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
then you suggest that Venezuela is as bad as Saudi Arabia.

Aa I mentioned:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 53):
Second of all, ask most hispanics and Venezuelans in this forum if your example of Saudi Arabia doesnt fit Venezuela's Chavez to a 'T' right now.

We have several members FROM VENEZUELA who will tell you exactly what I told you. So my final statement still stands.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 53):
But perhaps you Europeans know better than the lowly Hispanics.

Now, the first part indicates that you did not duplicate my communication at all. Which BTW, makes your reaction knee-jerk.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 58):

A few things Ill point out, firstly, I dont care who is better or worse, I dont have anything against the people of Venezuala, but the Saudis dont seem to be very charitable or generous in general. Keep in mind, that the only reason a few folks are not accepting this gift is because of the way he(Chavez) criticized Bush. Most people here are not Bush supporters nor did they even know what Citgo is or Chavez was most people simply dont care, but we are Americans the same as anyone else, and dont appreciate him doing that.

Yikes, it gets worse. So, you don't care where you get your fuels from, just as long as your car is full? Not even that, but crititism of your president is good enough for a boycott?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 59):
So my final statement still stands.

So you admit that it's hypocritical to refuse oil from Venezuela while accepting oil from Saudi Arabia? I'm glad you agree.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 60):
So, you don't care where you get your fuels from,

Dude, read what I wrote before, Alaskan gas and heating fuel is not only a domestic product, but it is an ALASKAN product.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 52):
It is pumped from the ground on the AK north slope, down the pipeline, shipped to the west coast, usually Washington. Then is shipped back up for consumption.

I think what people are saying about this is that they do care where thier fuel comes from. Where the hell does your fuel come from? Im gonna bet money that it comes from a non-democratic middle eastern country with a shady reputation for human rights abuses.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 60):
just as long as your car is full?

If you would have read any of the previous posts you would know this is not gasoline or petrol or whatever you want to call it. It is kerosene more or less. #1 fuel oil. It goes into a tank outside our houses to run a furnace and hot water heater.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 60):
Not even that, but crititism of your president is good enough for a boycott?

Oh come off it, nobody is boycotting anything! Read the fuckin story. There isnt a Citgo station or a drop of Saudi oil within 1000 miles of me! People and myself included are simply saying...no thanks. Some decided to do this as a community. I am giving mine to someone who needs it more than me. How can you boycott something that isnt for sale? Pull your head out buddy!
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 60):
Not even that, but crititism of your president is good enough for a boycott?

As Bushpilot could have told you from the original thread he wrote about this, my response was completely neutral on this. Whoever wanted to accept this oil was OK, and whoever didnt want it, it was OK as well. If you noticed, Bushpilot is accepting the oil, but giving it to someone who really needs it. And I defended his right to make whatever choice was fit for him.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 60):
So, you don't care where you get your fuels from

No, I dont. But we dont have that breakdown at the gas station, do we? They dont tell us the provenance of the gasoline they are selling us, so how can you or I even have the capability to make that choice?
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 47):
BTW ANCFlyer and L-188, can you explain to me the difference between Alaskan dividends and a handout . Us down here in the lower 48s AND Hawaii don't receive such gifts from Uncle Sam.

First off, Uncle Sam doesn't pay it Superfly. The State of Alaska does. It's a tax refund. You've heard of those, right? Bet even Uncle Sam has paid you one or two in your life time. Matter of fact, mine hit my Bank Account this morning. $1106.00 Thank you very much.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 52):
the fuel and gas that is consumed in my town is entirely a domestic product. It is pumped from the ground on the AK north slope, down the pipeline, shipped to the west coast, usually Washington. Then is shipped back up for consumption.

ALL crude oil from Alaska, by law, must be consumed only in the US. Alaska taps the lines at North Pole for the refinery there, the balance is shipped to places near Seattle and further down the coast to be refined. None - by law - goes overseas.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 54):
Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
They don't like to hear that kind of talk. That would make these villagers look like dare I say.......hypocrits.

Larry, as you broke into this conversation late in the second thread, I'm going to cut you a break and ASSUME you're not as gawddamn ignorant as you're portraying here. I'll be you a US Grant that 95% of the villagers have no frackin' clue who Chavez is and what an assmonkey he has become. So you're making a fool of yourself here . . if you want to continue, fine - do so at your own peril.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 61):
Oh come off it, nobody is boycotting anything! Read the fuckin story. There isnt a Citgo station or a drop of Saudi oil within 1000 miles of me!

Probably further than a thousand miles . . . there's no Citgo in Alaska at all. Won't find it in the Yukon, Northwest Territory or British Columbia either . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:48 am

ANCFlyer:
Calm down my friend. Bushpilot already answered my question and explained it very well.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Alaska Villages Tell Chavez To Shove His Free Fuel

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 64):
ANCFlyer:
Calm down my friend.

Dude, I'm always calm . . .  laughing 

Glad you got the answers . . . I was just afraid you'd put yourself in league with a certain other member posting in this thread . . .  relieved 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

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