FlyingTexan
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WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:14 am

Link to Flour-duh News Station

Lawmaker Wants Teachers Armed With Guns
Rep. Lasee To Propose Gun Legislation

MADISON, Wis. -- In the wake of school shootings in Wisconsin, Colorado and Pennsylvania during the last two weeks, a Wisconsin state legislator said he plans to introduce legislation that would allow teachers, principals, administrators and other school personnel to carry concealed weapons.
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falstaff
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:26 am

I think it is about time. I teach auto shop in an urban high school. I have a concealed pistol license. I am not allowed to carry it at work, because I work in a school. I respect the rule of law and do not carry at work. A student who ignores the law is free to do anything they want and I have no way to protect myself or other students.

All the laws in the world are meaningless if someone chooses to ignore them.

We have had kids with guns, knives, clubs, shanks, etc. at school. All of that is illegal, but that didn't stop any of those kids from bringing them to school. Our Principal called the police two days ago for an incident at our school. it took 15 minutes for them to arrive. If that was a shooting we would have been dead. Anyone who respects the law would have had no way to stop the perpetrator.

Many of my students live in a culture of violence. I have students who would stab first and ask questions later.

I can choose not to go to a bad neighborhood, a seedy bar, etc, but I can not choose not to go to work.

Some might say get a different job. I like what I do and auto shop teaching jobs are not that easy to find.
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Queso
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:46 am

Here's what I posted in another thread ( Dealing With School Shootings (by Allstarflyer Oct 2 2006 in Non Aviation) ) regarding this subject:

Arming educators in the schools works in Israel, in the Phillippines, and in Peru, and it should work here in the US.

Don't limit it to teachers, allow administrators, secretarial, and janitorial staff to carry with adequate background checks and training, on a volunteer basis. Your next airline flight might be piloted by someone who has been properly trained and is armed. If it's good enough to protect a planeful of people, why can't it be good enough to protect our kids? ( http://www.secure-skies.org/Pilots_In_Cockpit.php ) As has been proven, the police just can't make it there fast enough to help out when one of these situations occurs.

From what I understand, arming educators in Israel began after the Ma'alot school massacre, and has been very successful since, both in its rare actual employment and its daily deterrent effect. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maalot_massacre )

Had the staff in any of the recent school shootings been trained and armed, several young people would still be alive tonight. Think of the deterrent effect that it might have. Even if it prevented one occurrence of this happening it would be well worth it.
 
bushpilot
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:00 am

As a gun toting, pistol packing, trap shooting hunter, I fully believe in the 2nd amendment, but I dont think this is a good idea. I will be the first to admit that these schools shooting are tragic, so is every shooting. School, University etc are places for learning. I think it would be unwise to arm teachers, and even janitors. Give me a break, I dont want a guy whose summer job is running the Ferris Wheel at the county fair packing a gun around while my kids are there to learn. It would be a total distraction from the learning process. The people that do these sort of things are mentally ill. If we think we can seriously prevent these sort of things from happening by giving a teacher with a room full of kids a gun, that is a mistake. For those high crime inner city urban schools, have a police officer in the school. I went to HS in ANC, and was in school during Columbine, Jonesboro and all the shootings in the later 90s, there was an officer, mostly dealt with truancy, but an officer in school is much more wise than armed teachers.
As for Israel, that is thier choice, they are paranoid and for good reason, the use of armed teachers there is comparing apples and oranges. The far majority of both men and women have military training which is not the case here. This is just a bad idea. There are better routes to make our schools safer. This is just politics on behalf of the lawmaker trying to score that NRA endorsement.
 
checkraiser
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:02 am

Rest assured, if this bill ever passes the legislature, Gov. Doyle WILL veto it. He's got to be the most anti-gun governor in the US.

Then again, with any luck, Doyle will be ousted in the upcoming election.
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Queso
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 3):
an officer in school is much more wise than armed teachers

I disagree. I am assuming you mean an officer in uniform, therefore an assailant can case the premises beforehand and know there are only a couple of people there who are armed and will know how to avoid them and/or who to take out first. One the other hand, if the assailant had no idea who or how many armed defenders there were and even faced the possibility of encountering an armed defender in every classroom, they know that the school is no longer an easy target, their tantrum would be pointless and that they wouldn't make headlines. And that's what these events are all about, grabbing headlines.

Once the event started, the possibility of it being ended quickly is improved if there were more defenders and the number of victims would be likewise reduced.
 
jaysit
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:19 am

And lets hope that the librarians get to wield guns too.

And the janitors.

And lets not forget the career counselor too. And the guy who teaches drivers-ed.

But none for the PE teachers, I say. They're tough enough.
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Queso
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
But none for the PE teachers, I say. They're tough enough.

 
bushpilot
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 4):
Rest assured, if this bill ever passes the legislature, Gov. Doyle WILL veto it. He's got to be the most anti-gun governor in the US.

I dont think this bill will pass, I am not in Wisconsin, but cant imagine this really even being taken seriously. I know Wisonsin has had some tragic incidents with guns in the last few years. The school shooting in Madison, and the deer hunters incident near Washburn County, which coincidently is where my dad is originally from. But point being, this is knee jerk reaction to a shooting, where this lawmaker is looking for nothing but to grab headlines.

Quoting Queso (Reply 5):
I disagree.

Fair enough, despite having several strung together here, and that is truely unfortunate dont get me wrong on that aspect. I see a uniformed or not uniformed police officer being a much better idea. In the inner city where crime is already commonplace in schools, they are already on site to deal with drug possession, assault etc. If this guy really wants to make a bill that passes, he would write legislation putting a cop in every school. Similar to the DARE program or whatever. This does several things: A. a deterant for future violence. B. Hires an additional officer, C. That officer becomes a liason and PR symbol for students that the police are not something to be afraid of, and they will help you when needed, but when you do something wrong, you get a new set of bracelets. D. When there is an emergency outside of the school, like someone decides to shoot up a mall instead, they can respond to that. But an officer dedicated to dealing with juvenile crime, is much more effective at reducing and dealing with crime in schools in general than a few teachers who are generally not comfortable with the responsibility of being looked upon to deal deadly force to an intruder. We should not be asking this of our teachers.
Which raises even more question, Where the hell is the teacher going to put this said gone, what sort of liability is there when there is an accident. Which I would estimate that the gun being used for not its intended purpose is 10x more likely to happen than it being actually used to stop an armed assailant.
 
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falstaff
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
But none for the PE teachers, I say. They're tough enough.

Not our PE teacher. She is a girly girl, but smokin' hot...
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MUWarriors
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RE: WI Lawmaker Wants Pistol Packin' Teachers

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 3):
but I dont think this is a good idea

I agree. Look, if all teachers are armed, and some punk opens fire, and a bunch of teacher, principals, and whoever returns fire, there is more than an outside chance there are going to be casualties of the very students you are trying to protect. Not only that, how does a teacher keep said gun easily accessible (which it would need to be to be effective) yet safe from his students? This would be an absolute logistical nightmare.

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 4):
Rest assured, if this bill ever passes the legislature, Gov. Doyle WILL veto it. He's got to be the most anti-gun governor in the US.

This bill won't pass. Doyle won't have to veto it (even though you are right, he would). I am curious, however, to see how all the state races play out.

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