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Falcon84
Topic Author
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Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:42 am

Now, Uncle Sam wants to get into the bedroom of consenting adults, by preaching abstinance to them, and spending millions of our tax dollars on it.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...70709990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001

Note to the government: when it comes to consenting adults, just shut the frack up, OK?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Blackbird07
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:48 am

Oh *hell* no they di'int...
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward..."
 
jaysit
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:00 am

The crowd that the GOP has put into power in mid-level and upper level positions of the Federal bureaucracy were culled from the usual crowd of social conservatives. Its astonishing to see the number of Liberty University alums in positions of power.

Of course, what excites these people are other people's sex lives.

Wasn't there a study done awhile back that showed that all those teens who swore not to have sex ended up being the horniest ones around? And that sexual activity among those teens was actually higher than the rest who didn't sign onto any such rubbish?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:02 am

Won't matter when it comes to the majority of a.net, will it?
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
18161
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:04 am

I do not care about somebody's sex life, abstain or not its their problem.

But, What is wrong with abstinence anyway?  Wink
 
srbmod
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:37 am

I'd like to request a retroactive abortion for the bureaucrat who came up with this idea...........
 
AC773
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
Wasn't there a study done awhile back that showed that all those teens who swore not to have sex ended up being the horniest ones around? And that sexual activity among those teens was actually higher than the rest who didn't sign onto any such rubbish?

This goes back to the idea that religion simply isn't enough of a motivator for most people out there. Because of this, the "faith-based programs" we're seeing even in religious environments (i.e. churches, religious schools, et al) simply aren't working.

For example, I went to high school with a Christian girl who had a drink every now and then. She'd just take alcohol from the cabinet in her house and no-one would be the wiser. In 11th grade she had something of a religious epiphany and was "saved"; the premise being her drinking problem. Moreover, the whole point of the "awakening" was that she'd never drink again outside of an appropriate setting.

Almost everybody from my graduating class attends some form of college now. I was one of only a few people to go to college out of town, but the aforementioned girl along with several of my other high school friends have stayed. Based on what I hear from some of them, she appears to be drinking quite actively these days. In one instance I've heard about, she invited some other people over to get very drunk, and apparently one of them came very close to alcohol poisoning.

Based on countless reports and studies, this case is far from isolated. People need to wake up to reality and cease their reliance on subjective, vapid, and often threatless means of getting their points across. It clearly isn't working.
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
 
san747
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
Wasn't there a study done awhile back that showed that all those teens who swore not to have sex ended up being the horniest ones around? And that sexual activity among those teens was actually higher than the rest who didn't sign onto any such rubbish?

Yep, I don't know the exact link, but the study indicated that 88% of teens who took the "abstinence pledge" ended up having sex within a year of the pledge. On average, taking the pledge only delayed sexual activity 6 months, and those people were about 50% less likely to use protection or engage in riskier sexual activities...

So basically...

Quoting AC773 (Reply 6):
This goes back to the idea that religion simply isn't enough of a motivator for most people out there.

That statement is absolutely correct. Teens are gonna try stuff, no matter what, but if they don't have the knowledge or resources to protect themselves, bad things will happen.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
DrDeke
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:53 am

Yeah this is just what I need: I need the government to spend MY money telling me how to conduct MY sexual affairs. What next?

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
Wasn't there a study done awhile back that showed that all those teens who swore not to have sex ended up being the horniest ones around? And that sexual activity among those teens was actually higher than the rest who didn't sign onto any such rubbish?

I can still remember about some of those kids who, when realising what they had done, resorted to "But, oral sex is not 'real sex'" and "Anal sex is not 'real sex', because it doesn't involve penetration of the vagina".  rotfl 
 
jaysit
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 9):
"But, oral sex is not 'real sex'"

Yeah, but in their defense, we also had a sleazy President who basically said just that.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
L-188
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:20 pm

Good Idea.

Wrong Age Group
Wrong Funding Source (My Taxes)
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:38 pm

Unbloody beliveable! Glad its not MY tax dollars! (Although we have enough hair brained govt scheames of our own, thanks very much) But at least none of them are that stupid.

Gemuser
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killjoy
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:57 pm

THIS is why the world hates you. Screw Iraq...
 
DrDeke
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 12):
(Although we have enough hair brained govt scheames of our own, thanks very much)

Yeah but at least in your country the government is honest enough to call it a 'scheme' outright! I was pretty amused by that when I was visiting Australia, since in American English, "scheme" (even used in the sense of "government scheme") has a fairly negative connotation and would never be used by the government or a politician in a positive light  Smile.

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:45 am

This must be a part of the smaller government that the conservatives have been promising us for some time now.

A government so small it can fit in our bedrooms!
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:53 am

I am just amused by the consistent use of the term "out of wedlock" by all the experts involved in this discussion. What century are these people living in ? Sounds like they'd like to make all of these wicked unwed mothers wear a big red "A" on their bodices and stand in the stocks ! Why would anyone, never mind a government (of a supposedly advanced and civilised country), give a crap about adults having kids when they're not married. Hilarious ! But I guess the taliborn-agains have to extract their pound of flesh from the eternally grateful GOP before they're booted ignominiously from office.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Gemuser
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 14):
since in American English, "scheme" (even used in the sense of "government scheme") has a fairly negative connotation and would never be used by the government or a politician in a positive light  .

I didn't know THAT one!!! Thanks DrDeke

I think that the positivness in Oz comes from the late 19/early20 century use of the word in a number of "grand plan" developements schemes beloved by our pollies. Things like "XYZ Irrigation Scheme", "ABC Railway Scheme" and so forth, god knows there were enough of them.

Gemuser
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san747
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
I am just amused by the consistent use of the term "out of wedlock" by all the experts involved in this discussion. What century are these people living in ? Sounds like they'd like to make all of these wicked unwed mothers wear a big red "A" on their bodies and stand in the stocks! Why would anyone, never mind a government (of a supposedly advanced and civilised country), give a crap about adults having kids when they're not married. Hilarious ! But I guess the taliborn-agains have to extract their pound of flesh from the eternally grateful GOP before they're booted ignominiously from office.

Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to say this (I would, but I couldn't articulate it correctly). What you said is how I feel everyday when I hear stories like this happening throughout the US... You definitely hit the nail on the head here... I just wish more Americans believed in this attitude.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Now, Uncle Sam wants to get into the bedroom of consenting adults, by preaching abstinance to them, and spending millions of our tax dollars on it.

Well, if they're going to "preach" it (or just advocate it), they should do so as individuals. They are elected to rule over us (like it or not), and sometimes some of them do (and sometimes should) address issues of morality. Moreover, though, they should live it before they preach it, which disqualifies a huge number of any politicians, unfortunately. As for spending millions of tax-dollars to do this - wrong way to do it, totally.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Note to the government: when it comes to consenting adults, just shut the frack up, OK?

Refer to above. As individuals in elected position, they still have the freedom to express opinions (at their risk, and, even peril). It's just wrong, though, when they don't practice what they preach, which, in this case, is possibly often.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 4):
But, What is wrong with abstinence anyway?

Agreed. If someone chooses to wait for a marriage partner, they should be commended. They should also get real and find a good person to marry before they go nuts or make a possibly regrettable decision.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Wrong Age Group

Disagree.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Wrong Funding Source (My Taxes)

Agree.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Agreed. If someone chooses to wait for a marriage partner, they should be commended.

If someone chooses to wait until they graduate from college before they ever taste chocolate, because they think chocolate is so special, would you commend them or pity their empty lives?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Refer to above. As individuals in elected position, they still have the freedom to express opinions (at their risk, and, even peril).

I don't think anyone here is saying that they don't have a right to their opinions, as long as they don't use the government to push their agenda. Plus, we also have the right to call them idiots for having such opinions.
 
san747
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Agreed. If someone chooses to wait for a marriage partner, they should be commended.

Though I personally don't adhere to the "no sex before marriage" ideal, I do have to admit, with SOME people (big emphasis on some), I respect that they do wait. But most "I'm saving myself" people annoy the hell out of me because many have an uppity, holier-than-thou attitude because they say they'll be a virgin until they're married (which in most cases, they WON'T, like I said above about the abstinence pledgers)...

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):

If someone chooses to wait until they graduate from college before they ever taste chocolate, because they think chocolate is so special, would you commend them or pity their empty lives?

Interesting analogy... But I agree. Some people make too big of a deal of sex, while others act like its nothing, and I think the optimum mindset is to find a balance between the two positions (in life, I've noticed having a balanced, moderate view on something is almost always the most sensible).

For example, I have no objection or hang-ups with sex and I would have no problem with sex before I get married, BUT I would only have sex in a monogamous relationship. One night stands, hit it and quit it aren't really my thing. The only other thing I would consider would be a sort of "friends with benefits" or "f***-buddy" situation, because it isn't a f*** her, forget her situation, but even then, they can be problematic if you don't handle them right.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Qb001
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:37 am

From the article:

"Government data released last month show that 998,262 births in 2004 were to unmarried women 19-29, the ages with the most births to unmarried women."

So what?

My companion (that I called "my wife" sometimes, but really we're not married) and I have two kids, out of wedlock. What does it mean to those lunatics? That my kids are not "good" kids? That they are bastards? Maybe we're not good parents?

It's funny to see this government preaching no government intervention in the economy, because it's supposedly "socialism", while wanting to regulate what consenting adults do in their bedrooms...

Calling those nuts "social conservatives" is wrong. They are actually "social socialists", since they believe government can tell you what to do in your personal life.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:05 am

I was going to go off on Bush again until I realized this is aimed at welfare mothers that are having multiple kids by multiple fathers. It's not like they are going around to the public at large urging them to abstain from sex outside of marriage. I don't agree at all with the abstinence program in general (it doesn't work well) , but these "adults" they are talking about here are for the most part irresponsible.
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 23):
I was going to go off on Bush again until I realized this is aimed at welfare mothers that are having multiple kids by multiple fathers.

Hm, let's see. Maybe if there was effective sex education in the US that included information on contraception, there wouldn't be as many people in that category.

The idea of telling a bunch of 19-29 year olds that they shouldn't have sex because they might get pregnant is ludicrous. Adults are going to have sex, in most cases. Give 'em condoms - provide access to Depo-Provera. Don't bury your head in the sand and think that if you tell them not to have sex, the holy light of abstinence will shine upon them until they are linked in holy matrimony.

Quoting QB001 (Reply 22):
So what? My companion (that I called "my wife" sometimes, but really we're not married) and I have two kids, out of wedlock. What does it mean to those lunatics? That my kids are not "good" kids? That they are bastards? Maybe we're not good parents?

It means nothing. Being married or unmarried makes no difference. Two committed partners are definitely worthy parents and your kids should bear NO stigma about this at all.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
halls120
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
The crowd that the GOP has put into power in mid-level and upper level positions of the Federal bureaucracy were culled from the usual crowd of social conservatives. Its astonishing to see the number of Liberty University alums in positions of power.

Of course, what excites these people are other people's sex lives.

Wasn't there a study done awhile back that showed that all those teens who swore not to have sex ended up being the horniest ones around? And that sexual activity among those teens was actually higher than the rest who didn't sign onto any such rubbish?

Oh, it isn't just the Liberty U crowd in positions of influence.

Actually, according to the article, abstinence programs do work - for underage teens.

Quote:
Sarah Brown, director of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, says abstinence programs are among many messages that have helped reduce teen pregnancy rates. But "the notion that the federal government is supporting millions of dollars worth of messages to people who are grown adults about how to conduct their sex life is a very divisive policy," she says.

I agree with the second sentence above. HHS needs to STFU about adults and consensual sex.

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Refer to above. As individuals in elected position, they still have the freedom to express opinions (at their risk, and, even peril).

I don't think anyone here is saying that they don't have a right to their opinions, as long as they don't use the government to push their agenda. Plus, we also have the right to call them idiots for having such opinions.

Elected officials shouldn't be using taxpayer dollars to promote their own personal religious/social agendas.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:20 am

It is stuff like this (not just sex stuff, but moral preaching on a multitude of issues like stem cells, abortion [for the record I'm generally against abortion but I hate it when religion becomes the primary argument against it], censorship of things that are pretty tame, and so on that really ticks me off about the government in this country as of late, at least as far as how things are domestically.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Agreed. If someone chooses to wait for a marriage partner, they should be commended.

If someone chooses to wait until they graduate from college before they ever taste chocolate, because they think chocolate is so special, would you commend them or pity their empty lives?

This one is simple. Choosing to wait to eat chocolate involves only preferences. Waiting for the a marriage partner involves moral principles.

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
I don't think anyone here is saying that they don't have a right to their opinions, as long as they don't use the government to push their agenda.

Agreed then.

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 20):
Plus, we also have the right to call them idiots for having such opinions.

True, you have the right to call them anything.

Quoting San747 (Reply 21):
But most "I'm saving myself" people annoy the hell out of me because many have an uppity, holier-than-thou attitude because they say they'll be a virgin until they're married

Agreed. Some are cool about it, most probably are not.

Quoting San747 (Reply 21):
I have no objection or hang-ups with sex and I would have no problem with sex before I get married, BUT I would only have sex in a monogamous relationship.

 thumbsup 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 24):
The idea of telling a bunch of 19-29 year olds that they shouldn't have sex because they might get pregnant is ludicrous. Adults are going to have sex, in most cases. Give 'em condoms - provide access to Depo-Provera. Don't bury your head in the sand and think that if you tell them not to have sex, the holy light of abstinence will shine upon them until they are linked in holy matrimony.

We're in agreement here. You've got to realize what we're dealing with here in the US. Bush policies that are wrong are par for the course, of course an abstinence program is looney, but tha't just the GOP and the GOP can't do anything right. But give them credit for not pushing abstinence program on the population at large. They'd like to of course because they have better morals. But they don't because they cannot get away with it.
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 27):
This one is simple. Choosing to wait to eat chocolate involves only preferences. Waiting for the a marriage partner involves moral principles.

What moral principles? Anyone could equally easily claim to have moral objections to eating chocolate.

You could get fat, after all. Or E. coli.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
Anyone could equally easily claim to have moral objections to eating chocolate.

Not eating chocolate is immoral !

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
You could get fat, after all. Or E. coli.

Don't SAY that ! Even as a joke  hissyfit  cry 
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
iamcanadian
Posts: 704
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RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 27):
This one is simple. Choosing to wait to eat chocolate involves only preferences. Waiting for the a marriage partner involves moral principles.

What moral principles? Anyone could equally easily claim to have moral objections to eating chocolate.

What moral principles? How about the belief (and I call it a belief, because people "see" sex meaning different things) that sex is designed to be a beautiful, meaningful sign of love for one another between two committed individuals?

Eating chocolate has NO moral implications whatsoever. What YOU mentioned...

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
You could get fat, after all. Or E. coli.

are health objections.
Shut up and calculate.
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Feds Targeting Adults In Abstinance Campagn

Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Iamcanadian (Reply 31):
What moral principles? How about the belief (and I call it a belief, because people "see" sex meaning different things) that sex is designed to be a beautiful, meaningful sign of love for one another between two committed individuals?

Yeah, that's my point. That's not a real issue. It's just a belief some people have had indoctrinated into them, assigning excessive value to a simple act.

I guess it's still a moral standard, though, so I'd need to rephrase my earlier post, but it might as well be applied to chocolate imho. So all that's left are the health issues.

[Edited 2006-11-05 22:19:32]

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