Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45): You need to learn some history..

Please tell me. What history am I missing?

So when the planes slammed into the towers we saw on the news pictures from Capital cities. Pictures of people dancing in the streets, cheering and burning American flags. It could not be Muslims because they all loved us in the Middle East before we removed Saddam from power. Then they started hating us. So what I think you are saying is that someone who caused a disturbance on a flight and was removed and also all of the Muslims now hating us are all because of Bush???

Quoting Riyadhnurse (Reply 48): Well stated and I totally agree! If you can't conduct yourself in a manner that is compliant with all instructions from the air crew,and have some compassion for the rest of the pax,stay the hell home

And probably not to mention the rules of New Zealands governing body for Air travel. Like our own in the FAA

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 7): I begin to be pissed off by Muslims and their victimisation & paranoia.

Wow... i'm speechless... that people in today's world can make these sort of statements and consider themselves civilized.

EK345

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 22): People need to stop reacting to the initial terror, from Bush on down. This has all played into the hands of a sub-cult of a sub-cult.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 22): Suspicious behavior being that he was in the bathroom for 10 minutes? Hardly suspicious behavior.

Having just completed GSC training for a well known US airline, I think your points are completely off base. Before I went to the training, I was in the majority of yeah, it isn't gonna happen to me or my airline. However, after going through the training and listening to and seeing what can happen for 2 days, my view is changed. How is spending 10 minutes in the bathroom just prior to departure with all your books hardly suspicious behavior? And why should we stop reacting to the initial terror? Isn't that what caused 9/11 in the first place? Complacency leads to acts like that because people let their guard down. Spend 15 minutes searching on the internet and reading about how the London group this summer planned to make and use their bombs. It is scary as hell to think about because any idiot can obtain those items and make something. It is not rocket science. Maybe I just have a different view because I am in the business, but if you're acting weird or doing something that is out of the ordinary, you will not fly on my airplane. Call me crazy, a bigot, a racist, whatever the case may be, but when you are responsible for the safety of passengers and an airplane, you tend to look a little closer at who gets on that plane.

While I sympathize with Mr Adams and do agree it is an unfortunate event. The thought of some one using the toilet before flight for a long period of time would raise suspicions by any crew any where regardless of what race/religion the 'toilet user' is. As some one mentioned above, why not use the terminal.

As I said, I do sympathise with him as I presume he felt a little sick. However, the crew did what they thought was in the best interest of the a/c and all on board.

Besides, if the plane was taxying at the time, I can clearly see why he would have been tought of as a threat. If he remained in the loo, it MAY have came across to some as an act of 'defiance' against the crew for not being seated and strapped for T/O

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 42): I think Saddam already did that. And I think that the Muslims have hated Christians and Jews for say about 1400 years.???

Ummm..perhaps you've never heard of the crusades? Maybe Muslims have a reason to hate Christians that dates back those 1400 years?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45): You need to learn some history.. sarcastic

  

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 40): in case you missed it . . . Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 14): Quoting Baron95 (Reply 2): I don't know the details of this, but if, before take off, a muslim dressed in religious attire, carry some objects (aperently a stack of relegius books) and spends over 10 minutes in the bathroom, while the crew probably detects movements and sounds inconsistent with normal toilet use, I think the flight crew is justified in having it checked out.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 34): If you'd lost a child or a parent on 9/11 you'd be singing a different tune now instead of being all apologetic to the people that made their own bed. Muslims should blame their own extremists for what is happening to them, but it is so much easier to blame the Western lifestyle

I lost a very good friend in the WTC so please don't tell me what tune I'm singing. If we follow your logic that means that McVeigh represents all of white people, hardly.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 56): I lost a very good friend in the WTC so please don't tell me what tune I'm singing. If we follow your logic that means that McVeigh represents all of white people, hardly.

Don't forget Ghengis Khan and Tojo for all Asians, Hilter for Germans etc etc...

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 53): Having just completed GSC training for a well known US airline, I think your points are completely off base. Before I went to the training, I was in the majority of yeah, it isn't gonna happen to me or my airline. However, after going through the training and listening to and seeing what can happen for 2 days, my view is changed. How is spending 10 minutes in the bathroom just prior to departure with all your books hardly suspicious behavior? And why should we stop reacting to the initial terror? Isn't that what caused 9/11 in the first place? Complacency leads to acts like that because people let their guard down. Spend 15 minutes searching on the internet and reading about how the London group this summer planned to make and use their bombs. It is scary as hell to think about because any idiot can obtain those items and make something. It is not rocket science. Maybe I just have a different view because I am in the business, but if you're acting weird or doing something that is out of the ordinary, you will not fly on my airplane. Call me crazy, a bigot, a racist, whatever the case may be, but when you are responsible for the safety of passengers and an airplane, you tend to look a little closer at who gets on that plane.

Actually I was in the business, for quite sometime, also spent many years of my youth dodging IRA bombs in the middle of England so I'm quite familiar. Though I hear you in your concern (and deeply appreciate) for your passengers there's something wrong with the hysteria that is rampant. It reminds me of WWII when Japanese Americans were put into camps because they were Japanese Americans. A big mistake then too.

For the record I"m quite a hawk and think we should have stayed in Afghanistan rather than go to Iraq where there were no terrorists, just a lousy regime. If we can't begin to differentiate between people than I'm afraid we're sunk as a nation. To sacrifice civil liberties from fear = terrorists winning.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 56): I lost a very good friend in the WTC so please don't tell me what tune I'm singing. If we follow your logic that means that McVeigh represents all of white people, hardly.

Okay, Mcveigh one bombing. Why is it people always bring up McVeigh. And did he do it because he was white? Christian? No

Muslims , Many terrorist bombings. Doing it to kill the infidels. I could do the usual list of Muslim terrorist attacks but I am tired of that.
 

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 55): Ummm..perhaps you've never heard of the crusades? Maybe Muslims have a reason to hate Christians that dates back those 1400 years?

And how did the Muslims come to own the land that the crusaders tried to retake.( Note, retaking it means that somebody else had invaded it) Who owned that land before the Muslim horde took over Jersusalem? Was Saladin from Jersulam? Or even palestine. Who founded Jersusalem? What were Arabs doing in jersulam?? Just visiting? The Muslim Temple the Dome of the Rock is located on what Jewish Holy Site? (Note on top off usually means that the one on the bottom was there first).

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 55): Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45): You need to learn some history.. sarcastic

Who was it that was threatening the Center of the Christain Byzantine Empire, Constantinople when they asked the Pope Urban for help thus him calling for the Crusades to stop the Muslim Invasion ? The Great Cathedral the Haggia Sophia was the Center of Christainity for How many years before it was turned into a Mosque. How was the Muslim faith spread? A: By boat B: by Imans or C: By the sword ???

Read History. Not the revisioist liberal history they teach in schools these days.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 59): Muslims , Many terrorist bombings. Doing it to kill the infidels. I could do the usual list of Muslim terrorist attacks but I am tired of that.

....and people are tired of hearing the same old "propaganda" from this government..hence why they are getting the "boot"..  

"Mr Adam, dressed in religious attire, had planned to read religious texts on the flight and had gone to the toilet to perform ritual ablutions before takeoff. He spent about 10 minutes in the toilet. "

Ritual ablutions in the toilet is like eating kosher pig. There is no such a thing. You can perform "dry" ablutions when it is not practical to wash or have practical access to water in an acceptable place. One has to wonder about the real purpose of these incidents, and why all of a sudden we have all these "smart" religious leaders in the media. What's a muslim religious leader anyway?

It seems as though the Muslim community might be taking advantage of these situations. For example: How is one to really know if your Muslim?

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 63):

What advantage can they possibly take from this? This is bad publicity after bad publicity. It's either they're the dumbest people on earth or somebody is doing a good job at trying to make them look bad. I do not fall for that they hate our freedoms crap, or they want to kill the infidels. I have been to too many muslim countries to know better.

HI! OK FIRST POST on here 

I think the crew acted as they were supposed to..after 9/11 we are in a different world.. there are rules to be followed and if they are not you will suffer the consequences whether you are white/black/asian/muslim/jewish etc..

jumbojetla

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 30): Quoting Baron95 (Reply 28): Apparently you can. The investigation found the crew were wrong, as evidenced by the apology, the compensation to the passenger and the training they subsequently received. No the crew was right.

Dude you are quoting the wrong person. B707Stu is the one saying the crew can be second guessed.

[Edited 2006-12-10 03:02:20]

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 62): Ritual ablutions in the toilet is like eating kosher pig.

A restroom as a sink and water..which means one can do abulations (wudu) in the restroom....I've done it myself...and since it was on an EK flight, there were never any problems..  

Given that NZ apologised and offered compensation could probably mean they were over-the-top in this situation......

It happens...move on.....

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26): And if the crew is always right, were they right in the the old days, not so long ago, when (flamboyant) males were sometimes kicked off planes because they "might" have AIDS?

First off, I didn't say the crew is always right. I simply said that, in the airplane, while airborne or getting ready to get airborne, you CANNOT SECOND GUESS THE CREW. The captain and the captain representatives (rest of the crew) are SUPREME AUTHORITIES. It is NOT A DEMOCRACY ON AN AIRPLANE. The crew call the shots period.

Now after every one is off the plane and safely on the ground, go ahead. Question the crew, find them right or wrong, charge them, fire them, arrest them.

While on the plane in flight or getting ready for flight, shut up follow the crew and get out. Simple as that.

I'm not aware of what you speak off regarding gays and AIDS, but even in this case YES. If the crew thinks you are sick and can make other passengers sick, that is all it takes you are out. Period.

You don't seem to understand that while on a plane the crew has supreme decision making and does not have to explain themselves to anyone.

Don't like it, then find a country, airlines that lets passengers make flight decisions by debating and discussing it amongst themselves and then telling the crew what to do.

Good luck.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 67): A restroom as a sink and water..which means one can do abulations (wudu) in the restroom....I've done it myself...and since it was on an EK flight, there were never any problems..

That is not my understanding. A restroom is not considered clean for ablutions, and that is the reason why the actual toilet is separate from the rest of the bathroom in middle eastern homes.

I will try my best not to type angry, but I can not believe the liberal responses written so far (aclu anyone). I like most Americans still feel an incredible anger towards terrorists (was just 5 years ago that terrorists attacked based on radical religeous beliefs and killed 10,000 innocent people) sad as it may be the majority of terrorists are muslim. Most terrorist threats come from muslim background and are directed towards countries with freedom (watch the news). The crew did nothing wrong, (no good deed goes Unpunished) think what would have been said had something happened with knowledge that it could have been prevented. The person who lost a friend in the wtc, what a cop out-others lost wifes, husbands, mothers, children, etc. don' t try to make an equation to add merit to your argument; it's not fair.

No matter what religion or color skin the person has, if the crew has suspecions, then they can take such actions. The article was too vague. Would they have done the same thing if the person was a white middle class American? Who knows?

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 50): also all of the Muslims now hating us are all because of Bush???

I dont think all the muslims are hating us because of Bush, but its like throwing gasoline on a forrest fire. The fire was already there, but Bush (in the anology) make it much worse.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 59): Muslims , Many terrorist bombings. Doing it to kill the infidels. I could do the usual list of Muslim terrorist attacks but I am tired of that.

This is a gross generalization. The question: "Who is a terrorist?" is subjective. To much of the world Bush is indeed a terrorist. Bush is on the level of Osama with much of the world. Under the leadership of this adminsitration, more innocent people have died in the middle east, than died here on 9/11. But we dont pay as much attention to that because it isnt on our door step. Unfortunately, the American government reacts at the snap of a finger instead of thinking first. Its the reason we get into trouble alot.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 35): Quoting 777236ER (Reply 33): Nonsense. Racial profiling is racism Wrong... It's a necessity.

That is awful.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 34): If you'd lost a child or a parent on 9/11 you'd be singing a different tune now instead of being all apologetic to the people that made their own bed.

You are making a horrible mistake by grouping all muslims under the umbrella with the 9/11 terrorists. I lost my aunt and one of my cousins in Lebanon when Israel went on their bombing campaign. They didnt do anything. They were innocent victims. It did make me very angry, but I would be foolish to hate all Jews or Israelis because of it. One of my best friends is from Israel.

Quoting NW1852 (Reply 70): (was just 5 years ago that terrorists attacked based on radical religeous beliefs and killed 10,000 innocent people)

You really should check your numbers here. I'm not defending what happened, but it wasn't even close to 10,000.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 67): and since it was on an EK flight, there were never any problems..

Likely would not have been a problem on Freedom if he had chosen a more appropriate time to do it, try taking your ablutions while EK are attempting to taxi or take off and see if it is "no problem"

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 67): Given that NZ apologised and offered compensation could probably mean they were over-the-top in this situation......

They may have been, also fairly likely Mr Adams played the "victim" card a little as well!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 37): Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 34): Muslims should blame their own extremists for what is happening to them, but it is so much easier to blame the Western lifestyle -They do..people don't listen...the media (and our this particluar govt.)enoys on the fear of paranoia of people..it keeps ratings higher

With all due respect Jacobin777, you are often a voice of moderation or reason here.
Often, sadly after some tragic event, Muslim clerics and community leaders appear in the media and condemn these acts and protest solemnly that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Frankly it isn't us that need to be told, it is the small minority that commit these outrages. The sooner the Muslim majority come out from whatever it is they are hiding behind and make it absolutely clear to these evil little pieces of pig offal that their acts are totally unacceptable the sooner the world will be a better place.

The one thing I don't understand is these terrorists kill and maim more Muslims than "infidels" yet the community will not take the actions that can stop it.

My error close to 3,000 people died in the attacks.

So where are all the anti-New Zealand posts?

If this incident happened in the US, we would see a bunch of posts from non-Americans telling us how ignorant, paranoid, and racist we are, as we saw in the MSP Imam threads.

Quite the double standard in the A.net community.

(Of course the vast majority of New Zealanders aren't ignorant, but neither are the vast majority of Americans.)

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 68): simply said that, in the airplane, while airborne or getting ready to get airborne, you CANNOT SECOND GUESS THE CREW. The captain and the captain representatives (rest of the crew) are SUPREME AUTHORITIES. It is NOT A DEMOCRACY ON AN AIRPLANE. The crew call the shots period.

Apart from the fact that there is no need to SHOUT everything you say happened in this instance.

The crew was not countermanded on the plane, the passenger left the aircraft and did not fly on that flight.

So - what's your beef?

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 68): You don't seem to understand that while on a plane the crew has supreme decision making and does not have to explain themselves to anyone.

Gosh, let me see. I have been flying on airliners since I was six months old, in war zones and in peace. I have never - and would never - question the captin's right to almost anything.

Where did I suggest that I would? Or that I even wanted the right to do it?

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 68): Don't like it, then find a country, airlines that lets passengers make flight decisions by debating and discussing it amongst themselves and then telling the crew what to do.

Where did I suggest that I wanted this? Why not read what I actually wrote?

???

mariner

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 7): I begin to be pissed off by Muslims and their victimisation & paranoia.

That is one of the dumbest things I have read. Paranoia??? Do you
even know what that means???? TSA is paranoid, US airways if paranoid,
This New Zealand Airline is Paranoid. NOT MUSLIMS.

PIA777

Quoting NW1852 (Reply 70): I will try my best not to type angry, but I can not believe the liberal responses written so far (aclu anyone). I like most Americans still feel an incredible anger towards terrorists (was just 5 years ago that terrorists attacked based on radical religeous beliefs and killed 10,000 innocent people) sad as it may be the majority of terrorists are muslim. Most terrorist threats come from muslim background and are directed towards countries with freedom (watch the news). The crew did nothing wrong, (no good deed goes Unpunished) think what would have been said had something happened with knowledge that it could have been prevented. The person who lost a friend in the wtc, what a cop out-others lost wifes, husbands, mothers, children, etc. don' t try to make an equation to add merit to your argument; it's not fair.

Since I think you were referring to me I'll respond. A best friends brother died, another good friend's Mother died and a two very dear friends were able to escape. I too escaped being 6 blocks from the WTC but ran as they collapsed, the cloud ending 2 blocks from me. I'm not using that as a cop-out but to juxtapose that someone who first hand was there and went through it and supports people who did lose family and as I said is hawkish at attacking terrorists can maintain a balanced perspective.

What frightens me are those that have lost ability to think clearly from the fear that terrorism brings. What I attempted to bring to the dialogue is a rational view. ACLU? Hardly.

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 72): You really should check your numbers here. I'm not defending what happened, but it wasn't even close to 10,000.

It was just under 3,000.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 68): I'm not aware of what you speak off regarding gays and AIDS, but even in this case YES. If the crew thinks you are sick and can make other passengers sick, that is all it takes you are out. Period.

AA threw an AIDS patient off of an aircraft at ORD because he had to inject himself with medication. AA was sued and lost. Staff subsequently went through training after another incident in 1993 when an AA crew demanded the pillows and blankets be removed from an aircraft that transported a lot of gay people from a rally in Washington, DC. It was shortly after that that AA formed a strong marketing approach to the Gay/Lesbian market, as part of the 'amend.'

Quoting JumboJetLA (Reply 65): I think the crew acted as they were supposed to..after 9/11 we are in a different world.. there are rules to be followed and if they are not you will suffer the consequences whether you are white/black/asian/muslim/jewish etc..

What rule was broken? Using the toilet?

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 59): Okay, Mcveigh one bombing. Why is it people always bring up McVeigh. And did he do it because he was white? Christian? No Muslims , Many terrorist bombings. Doing it to kill the infidels. I could do the usual list of Muslim terrorist attacks but I am tired of that.

McVeigh was a right wing racist supremist, not very different from the Muslim fascists to which you refer. The color may change but the craziness is the same, which is the point.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 30): Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 11): = I personally think its great that the NZ HR Commission is being proactive. Thank you for sharing this incident as it affirms my positive impressions about NZ. Interesting reaction from members of the larger country up north ... typical of the deep issues present perhaps in that land? How come the NZ HR commission is not Investigating the abuses against all of the Indigenous populations in South America???

= Ok, I have no idea what you are talking about. What has the NZ-HR go to do with the indigenous populations of South America? Just to make sure ... you know that NZ is in the Pacific rim right and not in South America? Anyways, NO country is perfect and EVERY country has skeletons in its closet. You have to praise countries being proactive in handling situations. NZ has had "issues" with its indigenous population. However, it has done far more strides than many other countries out there.

And as a PS, by "larger country up north", I meant Australia. NZ is MILES ahead than its larger neighbor in being proactively dealing with social inequity, xenophobia, racism, etc. and I for one think the country should be patted on its back for it.

Cheers,
A.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 30): How come the NZ HR commission is not Investigating the abuses against all of the Indigenous populations in South America???

Ahhh because the NZHR has got nothing to do with South America because South America is not part of NZ.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 42): Quoting Mariner (Reply 38): Because the incident happened in New Zealand. How hard is that? Was he not a New Zealander flying in the U.S??

The airline which is believed to be at fault is Freedom Air. SJ is a LCC and only flys to Australia.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3): Not if it's shown they were racist.

A racist believes his race is superior to all other races.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 33): Nonsense. Racial profiling is racism.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to all others races.

I dont see how removing someone from an aircraft for not following the rules has anything to do with racism or racists. The person being removed may have been of the same race as the person removing him. Before someone uses a word they should at least know the meaning of the word.

LAXdude1023 welcome to my resepected users list for reply 71.

It's unfortunate that the world has come to where we are today. Let's all just focus on what binds us together regardless of race/religion/etc... the love of aviation.

Peace.
EK345

Quoting EK345 (Reply 85): LAXdude1023 welcome to my resepected users list for reply 71. It's unfortunate that the world has come to where we are today. Let's all just focus on what binds us together regardless of race/religion/etc... the love of aviation. Peace. EK345

Well said.

Quoting EK345 (Reply 85): LAXdude1023 welcome to my resepected users list for reply 71. It's unfortunate that the world has come to where we are today. Let's all just focus on what binds us together regardless of race/religion/etc... the love of aviation

Thank you much my friend.

Very well said. No one comes to a.net because they are a certain race or religion, we come here because we love aviation in one form or another. Its amazing how soon we forget this.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 2):

close your mouth with that bigotery

The terrorism turned the world a less security place, so think or do it these things to a muslim is not right, person is a person, not necessary a bad man. Bandits exists in any place and we must treat a person with good sense.

Werner

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 88): close your mouth with that bigotery

Care to point out the bigotry in my remarks. I don't know what happened in that flight - there is not enough info in the article. My point is simply to defend the right and duty of the crew to act, according to their judgement, in the interest of air safety.

If a red neck chewing tobaco makes them uncomfortable - boom - he is out.

If a girl dressed in very short miniskirt is walking up and down the aisle arousing spring breakers and the crew feels uncomfortable - boon she is out.

If a well dressed and educated Irish doctor is drunk and the crew feels uncomfortable - boon he is out.

If someone gets a big stack of books and locks himself into the bathroom with sounds inconsistent with normal bathroom use and that makes the crew uncomfortable - boom he is out.

Once xxxx is out of the plane, then you can do whatever you wand. Call the ACLU, the human rights division, the police, your lawyer, investigate, indicte the crew, fire them, send them for remedial/sensitivity training, whatever.

But the crew's judgement is just that - it is their call. That is may only point.

It doesn't matter if the crew was justified in feeling uncomfortable flying with this man. What matters is that they felt uncomfortable and acted. That I will always defend. Even if one day it gets me thrown out of the plane.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 22): People need to stop reacting to the initial terror, from Bush on down. This has all played into the hands of a sub-cult of a sub-cult.

You are not exaggerating either, it is probably a sub-sub-sub cult and panic in the west has done the rest for them.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 22): I think a locked door in a bathroom is as private as one can be on an aircraft.

Well it used to be but I might have news for you. On a recent flight from Syd to a nearby Islamic country, I was rudely disturbed by the crew after about (I would think) 5 minutes from the location you think is private. I don't think I fit the profile, we I do have a beard, but trimmed and I have never particularly thought that the dunnies on QF are places I would like to linger longer than necessary!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26): How did the crew know he was a Muslim? The article says he was wearing "religious attire" - but what does that mean? Was he wearing a turban? He might have been a Sikh - a fair few of those here.

Are you telling us that Monty Panesar might have more problems than just the lousy England selectors?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 29): 10 minutes in the loo isn't a lot, I've seen that happen with others from time to time....

Sorry Jacobin777, bad news, it seems that at ten minutes now, from my recent experience, you may already have outstayed your welcome!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26): It is not the enemy who looks different that we should worry about - it is the enemy who looks like everyone else.

Too true, so I suppose my trimmed beard WAS suspicious.

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 58): To sacrifice civil liberties from fear = terrorists winning.

Try and convince Bush and Howard of that, I wish you luck. They have found too many votes coming from the easily terrified.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 71): LAXdude1023

Nice posts there, well said.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 82): And as a PS, by "larger country up north", I meant Australia. NZ is MILES ahead than its larger neighbor in being proactively dealing with social inequity, xenophobia, racism, etc. and I for one think the country should be patted on its back for it.

Well I managed to work it out, although perhaps my location helps, we understand the W island (remember that the Taswegians already call us N island, so for NZ it is really W) is so advanced these days it is now behind the E islands.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 83): The airline which is believed to be at fault is Freedom Air. SJ is a LCC and only flys to Australia.

My Mistake. I thought by an earlier post that it was Freedom Air that flys Delta Express here in Orlando. They also mentioned him not having a passport. But it does not matter what country you are in,. The crew made the right decision. It does not matter what a person is ethnicly. Rules are rules and they can be subjective. If they kick off a drunk is that profiling against alchoholics? Alot of people are kicked off flights everyday. But if they are "ethnic" then everyone invovled are assumed to be racists. The fact that the press puts this garbage in the news is even worse and causes even more division.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 82): = Ok, I have no idea what you are talking about. What has the NZ-HR go to do with the indigenous populations of South America? Just to make sure ... you know that NZ is in the Pacific rim right and not in South America? Anyways, NO country is perfect and EVERY country has skeletons in its closet. You have to praise countries being proactive in handling situations. NZ has had "issues" with its indigenous population. However, it has done far more strides than many other countries out there. And as a PS, by "larger country up north", I meant Australia. NZ is MILES ahead than its larger neighbor in being proactively dealing with social inequity, xenophobia, racism, etc. and I for one think the country should be patted on its back for it.

I assumed that your country being Venezuela that you were referring to the posts from the U.S. Thus the reference to Human rights issues in S America.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 24): I'm sick of reading the paper and first thing you read is take for instance Muslim taxi cab drivers won't carry liquor because it's against their religion.. Are you kidding me?

Or Muslim doctors in UK that wont treat patients with STD's!! I have to say everyday i get more pissed off too at these things. These people should find jobs that dont affect their beliefs. If they are are in a Christian country they should respect that and integrate whilst also being able to reasonably practice their own faith. My fathers family are immigrants and they integrated. If you dont like it then go to the nearest airport and go home!!! The race/religious victim card is used far too much these days. If i see a suspicious guy Muslim or not on the plane you can be dam sure I would report it. Sometimes we can be TOO democratic!

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 1): MHO Yet another beat up of the "religious intolerance" shown towards those that have less of it than most!

They do this on purpose. The plane is taxiing, or they are huddled in the back of the plane talking and being sly, they know what they are doing. Muslims need to convey to other Muslims to just tow the line, this is free press for their fight for supremacy.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 2): Crew acted properly. YOU CANNOT SECOND GUESS A CREW THAT FEELS CONCERNED. PERIOD.

It is their plane, they travel on it hundreds of times. They feel scared or nervous because a Muslim priest wants to be an ass then kick him off.

Quoting 4Left (Reply 4): These clerics now do this to inflame their flock and at the same time the worlds liberals. It's time we al push back and stop this craziness.

This is a very well said statement. There are many Liberals and people on this thread that will kiss a Muslims ass, but this my friend is well said.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 69): That is not my understanding. A restroom is not considered clean for ablutions, and that is the reason why the actual toilet is separate from the rest of the bathroom in middle eastern homes.

Ok.now I see the point where you are coming from..  ..

The toilet is separate from the abulation room if there is enough possible room/space for it (as what one sees in many middle eastern/asian homes as well as mosques) ..its done more so just because its possible to do so...but if that is not possible (such as in an apartment, very small home, airplane, etc.) then its fine to have do abulations in the sink which is part of the restroom...

There is actually no religious edict which states the abulation room must be separate from the restroom.

I hope that clears things up for you... 

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 73): Likely would not have been a problem on Freedom if he had chosen a more appropriate time to do it, try taking your ablutions while EK are attempting to taxi or take off and see if it is "no problem"

StealthZ, with respect, it did say the plane was on the ground..maybe it hadn't departed anywhere yet..and again, the fact NZ didn't aggresively defent this might have meant they indeed made a error..which I said earlier, is fine...as they realised their mistakes and took steps to rectify it...

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 73): They may have been, also fairly likely Mr Adams played the "victim" card a little as well!

Possibly....however...see my explanation above...also, most Muslims (myself included) don't like to play the "victim" card...just deal with the situation and move on (of course, it might have been different in Mr. Adams case-unfortunately, we just don't know)....

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 73): With all due respect Jacobin777, you are often a voice of moderation or reason here.

Thanks for the kind words StealthZ...support and encouragement like yours makes posting enjoyful and time spent worthwhile..... 

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 73): Often, sadly after some tragic event, Muslim clerics and community leaders appear in the media and condemn these acts and protest solemnly that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Frankly it isn't us that need to be told, it is the small minority that commit these outrages. The sooner the Muslim majority come out from whatever it is they are hiding behind and make it absolutely clear to these evil little pieces of pig offal that their acts are totally unacceptable the sooner the world will be a better place.

As much as we try (and its not just the media, but also during Friday services every week)...some people just will not listen..

Look at how many multi-convicted felons there are out there..one would figure after a jail term, they would learn their lesson, yet a good proportion of ex-convicts wind up breaking the law again....and going to jail...

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 73): The one thing I don't understand is these terrorists kill and maim more Muslims than "infidels" yet the community will not take the actions that can stop it.

  ..great observation....which just goes to show, how these people use religion as a means to an end (unfortunately, it just happens to have the name "Islam/Muslim" attatched to it..).....as a Muslim, I'm appalled that they would even remotely use my religion for their actions...

Quoting Baroque (Reply 91): Sorry Jacobin777, bad news, it seems that at ten minutes now, from my recent experience, you may already have outstayed your welcome!

So if someone had a sever upset stomach and had to sit on the toilet for an extended period of time, he would be deemed as a "threat"...

that's just nothing more than fear and paranoia.....

Quoting OA260 (Reply 94): Or Muslim doctors in UK that wont treat patients with STD's!! I have to say everyday i get more pissed off too at these things.

Considering that 2/3 of my family are physicians, as well as knowing many physicians in the Muslim community in various parts of the world, including the UK..I find that to be absurd....in fact, I know a few Muslim physicians who are doctors of infectious diseases, internists, etc..and they deal with a lot of those kinds of aforementioned patients....

There is no reason any airline or airport need make any changes in their operating process. If you [a pax] look nervous, make potentially damning statememnts, or cause those around you to crank up the swet pumps, then you should be politely detained and questioned. Yup it sounds a bit like Big Brother, but given the craziness today, I don't see the world's air travelers rising up and condemming the practice.

Note to self:Expect to be stopped by security if you stand out from the crowd. Self expression is not cool at the world's airports. It's called undress to fly. I recently was on a DTL flight from BOS to ATL and a very stoned and obviously gay {the gay statement is germaine to this} pax came aboard and called his row mates some colorful names and promptly threw up into the seat back. He then announced he had AIDs and needed peace and quiet. A lot of hands reached for the call button at that point. As well as a lot of air sick bags. He took one and let go with another very smelly stream and when the head stew asked him if he was in need of medical help he held up the bag and threatened to infect us all. Well that was all the stew needed to hear, and then the FO and a very big State Trooper (the v-shaped kind who's hat was two sizes too small for his squash) came down the isle and not to gently escorted the lad off the AC. He, as he left, shouted out all kinds of remarks. The middle part of the AC erupted into applause and the flight crew began the cleaning process of the seat. The other two in the row were offered a different flight, but they stayed. We missed out slot by 45 minutes. But the crew acted responsibly. Moral? Don't be an a-hole.

Now you PC'ers out there wil write he should have been given a hug and a glass of milk to settle down, while those around him suffered with his ranks and retches and his stink. It was written earlier in this thread, that flying is a privlidge . We conform to the Airline's rules and regs as well as those of the govt' and not the other way around. The liberal viewpoints and actions are getting way out of hand. It's like the sexual harrassement boom in the 80's and look what that did to the workplace....

a still working WEB-link :
http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11964-6677082,00.html
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Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 7): In the civilized world, planes takes off following a schedule.

civilized world ? Suppose that planes even in Romania take off following a schedule ?
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Quoting CroCop (Reply 95): They do this on purpose. The plane is taxiing, or they are huddled in the back of the plane talking and being sly, they know what they are doing. Muslims need to convey to other Muslims to just tow the line, this is free press for their fight for supremacy.

..what's your point