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srbmod
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Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:27 am

Since the other thread is getting a bit lengthy for those on dial-up, here's a new thread in which to continue the discussion.
 
noelg
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:34 am

I love the "similar topics" on the first "Saddam is Dead" thread:

My Furnace Is Dead. posted Tue Mar 14 2006 17:07:49 by LHMARK
My XBox Controller Is Dead posted Wed Mar 8 2006 02:40:00 by S12PPL
Rock And Roll Is Dead posted Sat Sep 17 2005 23:24:58 by Blackbird1331
So You Think Analog Is A Dead And Outdated Format posted Sat Jul 30 2005 22:31:58 by Matt D

 rotfl 
 
767Lover
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:56 am

I'm not sure Saddam could have been housed in a jail cell safely-- for the guards assigned to watch him.

I can imagine at some point in the future someone overtaking the guards to allow Saddam to escape.

I would not want to put any guard under that risk.

I am not shedding any tears.

By the way, it is amazing all the hand-wringing that goes on over an evil tyrant's execution...and yet I don't see that same sort of reaction over the executions of "adulturous" women in Afghanistan, Nigeria, etc.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:20 am

Okay, google video of the whole death...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

He is saying the "shahada", the witnessing that should be the last words on the lips of a muslim (in theory)

"I bear witness that there is no god but god, I bear witness that Muhammad *cut off, hung*". should have finished "Is the messenger of god". Seconds after his hanging you can hear chants and shouts of anger at Saddam, as well as words of joy.

Well I cracked open a beer as I watched.

Edit: This video is unofficial, shot with a camera phone, and was realsed within an hour by those that want the world to see what a piece of shit he really is.

[Edited 2006-12-31 01:25:48]
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:23 am

Some people believe in the death penalty, others don't. Matter of opinion and culture and therefore I'd hope the Iraqis would get a bit more respect for their choice.

I haven't really made my mind on the death penalty, except for exceptions like Hussein's case.

Edit: I'm not sure releasing the full video is appropiate, however.

[Edited 2006-12-31 01:27:26]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
CPH-R
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:24 am

I'm still baffled that some people would actually want to watch the death of another human being - let alone treat it with so little respect.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
Edit: I'm not sure releasing the video is appropiate, however.

I am.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):

He shouldn't get any respect.
Hence, this link... http://trampolinelol.ytmnd.com/

[Edited 2006-12-31 01:36:38]
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
I'm still baffled that some people would actually want to watch the death of another human being - let alone treat it with so little respect.

After what he did during his regime, do you think he deserves any respect? I certainly don't.
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cedars747
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
Okay, google video of the whole death...

I definitely wouldn't see this video............In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
Gunships
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
I'm still baffled that some people would actually want to watch the death of another human being

I'm baffled how some people talk of treating Hussein with any respect or compassion.

He has been held accountable for his actions. Not my actions, not your actions, but his own actions. He had the power to stop this long ago and chose not to.

Extreme acts call for extreme responses.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 6):
He shouldn't get any respect.

Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

Every human being requires a fair treatment, even those who did horrible things. A minimum of respect is part of that. A denial of the fundamental principle that anyone has certain minimum rights is dangerous, because it raises the question, who is to decide on whom is getting respect, and who is not. I do not think that any human is good enough to decide that in a fair way for any case, therefore I think that we need certain respect as a minimum standard which should be valid universally.

Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being. Thus he must be treated as a human, even if he did not treat his victims like that.
 
connies4ever
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:43 am

Allstarflyer wrote (in previous thread:

" I'm not sold that it's one of Islam's. "(this is in regards to mercy being a central tenet of Islam)

Read the Koran. I have. It won't corrupt you, in fact you may be enlightened.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 2):
By the way, it is amazing all the hand-wringing that goes on over an evil tyrant's execution...and yet I don't see that same sort of reaction over the executions of "adulturous" women in Afghanistan, Nigeria, etc.

Actually, I have thought long and hard about that topic, and, at least in relation to Afghanistan, an argument can be made that intervention in their society to protect the rights of women is justified. The same could be said about the Darfur situation. And Nigeria as you point out.

Once you go down that road, then the Treaty of Westphalia concept (whatever happens within a sovereign nations' borders is their business) goes out the window, and, with that, the concept of sovereign independence. At that point, we all have the right to intervene in each others' affairs -- if we can enforce it.

Few nations have that ability, the United States is one, but look at the enormous difficulties the US military is having in Iraq right now against a loose alliance of militias, many of whom are fighting each other as well as the US. Maybe the UK, maybe France. Look at the problems Russia has had in Chechnya, it's been over 15 years IIRC.

In point of fact, the reason our men and women are in Afghanistan is so that they _won't_ be in Iraq, because the US has exerted enormous pressure in many ways to 'encourage' Canada to join the 'coalition of the willing'. By sending our forces to Afghanistan, the US can free up a brigade for Iraq. Actually, if our soldiers have to be anywhere, I'd rather use the interventionist principle and send them to the Darfur and kick the crap out of the Janjawid who are murdering and raping their way through an ethnic cleansing campaign. They'd be no match for the battle group. The Taliban have noticed that we're now deploying Leopard C2 main battle tanks in theatre -- something the US did not do -- and the 'punching weight' of the infantry has gone up by an order of magnitude. Also the M777 with GPS-guided shells have got their attention, big time.

Hand-wringing, no. Concern, yes. And it's all about capabilities. You do what you _can_ do. Could the US stop the honour killings in Nigeria? I don't think so.
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futureualpilot
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being. Thus he must be treated as a human, even if he did not treat his victims like that.

So? Just because he was a human he does not automatically warrant respect. I believe respect should be earned, not given.

[Edited 2006-12-31 01:57:49]

[Edited 2006-12-31 01:58:20]
Life is better when you surf.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Every human being requires a fair treatment, even those who did horrible things. A minimum of respect is part of that.

Well that's the difference between you and me.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
corey07850
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 8):

I definitely wouldn't see this video............In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act

The video is not very graphic, and pans away after Saddam starts falling, then comes back with a shot of him laying on the ground. It's a good job of showing Saddam is dead for the non-believers out there without being obscene
 
Springbok747
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 6):
He shouldn't get any respect.



Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 12):
Just because he was a human he does not automatically warrant respect. I believe respect should be earned, not given.

He paid the price for what he did. I don't see any reason to dis him further. If we treat him like he treated his enemies, then there's no difference between him and us.
אני תומך בישראל
 
andessmf
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him

Jesus, he met with him once! Let's go over a couple of other countries that helped Iraq.

- After the oil crisis of 1973 France had changed to a more pro-Arab policy and was accordingly rewarded by Saddam with closer ties. He made a state visit to France in 1976, cementing close ties with some French business and conservative political circles. -

- Saddam initiated Iraq's nuclear enrichment project in the 1980s, with French assistance. The first Iraqi nuclear reactor was named by the French "Osirak" -

-However, the 1978 executions of Iraqi Communists, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and a shift of trade toward the West strained Iraqi relations with the Soviet Union, leading to a more Western orientation from then until the Gulf War in 1991, though Saddam continued to receive the majority of his armaments from the Soviet bloc.-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#Foreign_affairs

So before trying to keep implicating the US, look at how many others also helped him out.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

Every human being requires a fair treatment, even those who did horrible things. A minimum of respect is part of that. A denial of the fundamental principle that anyone has certain minimum rights is dangerous, because it raises the question, who is to decide on whom is getting respect, and who is not. I do not think that any human is good enough to decide that in a fair way for any case, therefore I think that we need certain respect as a minimum standard which should be valid universally.

Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being. Thus he must be treated as a human, even if he did not treat his victims like that.

So I wonder how many people in your family were murdered by Saddam's regime. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say "Zero".
Oh well. It's done. It's over with. You and the rest of the "give him life"er's can't change it. And for that, I am thankful. I'm also thankful that he didn't get life so in 5 years we don't have to hear any whining about Saddam not receiving "fair and proper" treatment at prison. About the only way I might have supported life in prison for Saddam was if he was put in a 4' x 4' x 4' cage (not even tall enough to stand up or lay down in), fed about half a meal a day, and put on public display in museum for people to throw stuff at him and take a piss on him.
Or maybe we could have donated his body to science.  stirthepot 

Quoting Gunships (Reply 9):
I'm baffled how some people talk of treating Hussein with any respect or compassion.

He has been held accountable for his actions. Not my actions, not your actions, but his own actions. He had the power to stop this long ago and chose not to.

Extreme acts call for extreme responses.

 checkmark 
It's one thing to debate the death penalty for someone who murdered one person. For Saddam, it's "Good Riddance".

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14):
The video is not very graphic, and pans away after Saddam starts falling, then comes back with a shot of him laying on the ground. It's a good job of showing Saddam is dead for the non-believers out there without being obscene

Tehehehe. The non-believers will continue to not want to believe. Remember there are those in this world who still want to deny the Holocaust, the Moon Landing, the world is round, etc.

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 12):
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being. Thus he must be treated as a human, even if he did not treat his victims like that.

So? Just because he was a human he does not automatically warrant respect. I believe respect should be earned, not given.

 checkmark 
Couldn't have stated that better myself.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
767Lover
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 8):
In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act

Well, actually as far as execution methods this is probably the most humane of any because the person pretty much dies in an instant.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
If we treat him like he treated his enemies, then there's no difference between him and us.

But we didn't treat him like he treated his enemies. We gave him a trial, and was found guilty by punnishment of death.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
He paid the price for what he did. I don't see any reason to dis him further.

I dont see the video as a dis, or insult to him. The photos and videos are proof that there is one less form of evil in the world, I do not believe they were taken with the intent to disrespect the man...he already did that himself during his tiral.
Life is better when you surf.
 
British767
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:34 am

What gets me is that even though Saddam was executed (that word sends shivers down my spine) today, everybody is forgetting that about 70 or so were killed a few hours afterwards by suicide bombs, thus making it seem insignificant! I guess it is somewhat understandable, as Saddam is one of the major causes of the violence in Iraq.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting British767 (Reply 21):
What gets me is that even though Saddam was executed (that word sends shivers down my spine) today, everybody is forgetting that about 70 or so were killed a few hours afterwards by suicide bombs, thus making it seem insignificant! I guess it is somewhat understandable, as Saddam is one of the major causes of the violence in Iraq.

Well that's because this discussion isn't about those that died by suicide bombs today. mmmmhmmmmmmmm.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
British767
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 22):
Well that's because this discussion isn't about those that died by suicide bombs today. mmmmhmmmmmmmm.

I am not talking about this discussion. I am making a general comment about the media.

[Edited 2006-12-31 02:58:11]
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
So I wonder how many people in your family were murdered by Saddam's regime. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say "Zero".

And? Do you plea for re-introducing private punishment, abolishing the states monopoly for violence? Revenge has not been the primary motive for why states punish convicted people for centuries.
 
OU812
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

Don't forget it was Rummy and coalition forces which removed Saddam from power. Also, Rummy wasn't the only person to meet with Saddam. Chirac from France was personal friends with Saddam. And many European nations like Britain, West Germany and Italy backed Saddam as well in the 80's because they ALL felt Iran to be a far greater threat!

I hope you are not trying to single out the US here?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3324053.stm

French role

France, however, was also a major supplier. When he was prime minister in 1974, Jacques Chirac went to Baghdad to see Saddam Hussein, then the power in Iraq, though not yet the president.

The following year, Saddam Hussein went to France and Prime Minister Chirac showed him round a nuclear plant.

They negotiated the sale to Iraq of two French nuclear reactors. One of them was destroyed in an air raid by the Israelis in 1981 amid fears that Iraq was developing a nuclear weapon.

France also agreed to provide Iraq with 133 Mirage F1 jet fighters over a 10-year period. It is reckoned that during the 1980s, 40% of France's arms exports went to Iraq.

'My dear friend'

In 1987, a French paper published a letter written to Saddam Hussein by Jacques Chirac a few months previously. It began: " My dear friend."

It refers obliquely to "the negotiation which you know about" and to the "co-operation launched more than 12 years ago under our personal joint initiative, in this capital district for the sovereignty, independence and security of your country."

The French president has since said that, at the time, many governments supported Iraq in its war against Iran

Mr Chirac denied that the "negotiation" meant a discussion about repairing Iraq's nuclear reactors.

The French president has since said that, at the time, many governments supported Iraq in its war against Iran and that Iraq was seen as "progressive".

Indeed many other Western countries - including the United States, Britain, West Germany and Italy - also helped Iraq with equipment and expertise, both civilian and military, and with finance.

Iraq's Arab neighbours in the Gulf, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia among them saw revolutionary Iran as a threat and poured money into Baghdad.


Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being.

Maybe physically he was human, beyond that he was an animal. He got off easy. Once someone commits the crimes in which Saddam was guilty of, the gloves come off! An eye for an eye.

Where was all this concern when Saddam was murdering torturing & beheading the people of Iraq by the hundreds of thousands?
 
TNNH
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:53 am

this has got to be the first execution to reach youtube. incredible that only 100 yrs ago we were communicating via smoke signals.

q- anyone know if any americans were present during the execution. my impression was that official Americans (those representing our mission in Iraq) were not allowed to attend, b/c of the possibility they could be seen as sanctioning the possible events surrounding the execution- (a) desecration of the corpse (b) allegiance to Al-Sadr, etc...

anyone know differently?
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 25):
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being.

Maybe physically he was human, beyond that he was an animal. He got off easy. Once someone commits the crimes in which Saddam was guilty of, the gloves come off! An eye for an eye.

Where was all this concern when Saddam was murdering torturing & beheading the people of Iraq by the hundreds of thousands?

With all that Saddam did during his reign of power, his punishment was more of "A fingernail for an eye". His hanging was but a small fraction compared to all that he did. But it was the most that could be done.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 24):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
So I wonder how many people in your family were murdered by Saddam's regime. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say "Zero".

And?

Gee, I was right. Shocker there.   
I'd be willing to bet had it been your friends or family that were killed, your bleeding-heart position would be reversed.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 24):
Revenge has not been the primary motive for why states punish convicted people for centuries.

You're right. Justice is. Saddam received justice for what he did per the Iraqi law. Sorry if the Death Penalty isn't your idea of justice (for ALL that he did), but hey, since you weren't part of the new Iraqi government or the trial, your opinion didn't matter, and frankly, given your position, I'm kinda' glad it didn't.

[Edited 2006-12-31 04:22:56]
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Springbok747
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 24):
Revenge has not been the primary motive for why states punish convicted people for centuries.

Saddam's execution was not revenge. He was punished for the crimes he willingly committed. But execution was the easy way out for the guy...they should have put him in a cell somewhere so that he could rot away for the rest of his life.
אני תומך בישראל
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 28):
Saddam's execution was not revenge. He was punished for the crimes he willingly committed. But execution was the easy way out for the guy...they should have put him in a cell somewhere so that he could rot away for the rest of his life.

That's just it though. Either A) He wouldn't really be rotting away but would live the rest of his life at least comfortably or B) If he was treated in a way he deserved, (like being shoved into a 4' x 4' x 4' steel cage and fed about one meager meal a day) we'd be hearing complaints about how he's being inhumanely treated.
And now not having to feed him and clothe him and watch him is one less thing the new Iraqi government has to worry about.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
miamix707
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 8):
I definitely wouldn't see this video............In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act

 sarcastic  sure buddy..

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Saddam was a criminal, he was cruel, he was a murderer. But he still was a human being. Thus he must be treated as a human, even if he did not treat his victims like that.

I think Saddam was happy to go. I mean what's worse? Spend your last days in a crummy jail, with roaches and maybe no TV? Even though he really wasn't too religious, the prospect of meeting the 72 virgins soon I'm sure sounded a lot better.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 25):
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

Don't forget it was Rummy and coalition forces which removed Saddam from power. Also, Rummy wasn't the only person to meet with Saddam. Chirac from France was personal friends with Saddam. And many European nations like Britain, West Germany and Italy backed Saddam as well in the 80's because they ALL felt Iran to be a far greater threat!

Indeed, in his effort to be fair (and criticize the US) our friend the sonntag seems to have forgotten that part.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 27):
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 24):
Revenge has not been the primary motive for why states punish convicted people for centuries.

You're right. Justice is. Saddam received justice for what he did per the Iraqi law. Sorry if the Death Penalty isn't your idea of justice (for ALL that he did), but hey, since you weren't part of the new Iraqi government or the trial, your opinion didn't matter, and frankly, given your position, I'm kinda' glad it didn't.

exactly
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
I'm still baffled that some people would actually want to watch the death of another human being - let alone treat it with so little respect.

Why should anyone who ordered the deaths of thousands, probably killed a few hundred, at least, personally himself, started two major war, get any respect. Why do you think such a scum deserves respect. Respect is EARNED, not conferred.

Would hou have shown any respect to old scrambledbrains Hitler, just before he blew his head off? I doubt it-he didn't deserve it.

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 8):
I definitely wouldn't see this video............In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act

The barbarism is what this creep paid for-killing thousands. And you have the gall, and the nerve, to call this barbarism? You need a course in what is right and wrong, Alex!!, because you don't have a clue.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Well, he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

Rumsfeld met with him once. He met with Chirac, and other world leaders. In the world of international discourse, that isn't a sign of respect, but of the fact that the world of politics does make strange bedfellows sometime.

Do you think Neville Chamberlain met with Adolph Hitler out of respect? Or more looking for common interest (that really wasn't there)?

Talk about overblowing something, you just did it.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
Every human being requires a fair treatment, even those who did horrible things.

This man WAS given fair treatment-a tral, chance for counsel, chance to speak to those who accused him. He never gave that "respect" or "fair treatment" to those who he ordered murdered, or those he gassed, or those he warred on.

Where is your freaking outrage for what he died for? Why are you so upset this excuse for a human being was given his just due? What is wrong with people like you?

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
A minimum of respect is part of that.

No, it is not-not to a mass murderer.

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14):
The video is not very graphic, and pans away after Saddam starts falling, then comes back with a shot of him laying on the ground. It's a good job of showing Saddam is dead for the non-believers out there without being obscene

Agreed.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
If we treat him like he treated his enemies, then there's no difference between him and us.

We didn't, as the next quote says below. He was given due process, which is more than he gave his enemies.

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 19):
But we didn't treat him like he treated his enemies. We gave him a trial, and was found guilty by punnishment of death.

Thank you.

It's amazing, among some of the more weak-hearted souls on here, whom actually feel some remorse and sadness that this horrible human being, which he was at best, was put to death for killing THOUSANDS! Again, what is wrong with you people. I can respect your not wanting the death penalty-in most cases I'm agaisnt the death penalty. But there is a time and place where it is appropriate, and it is appropriate for a man who killed thousands of people.

I just don't understand why those souls seem actually downcast he is gone.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):

While I do not mourn the death of a ruthless dictator, I do think life in prison would have been more befitting. He seems to have escaped like a magician through a trap door (no pun intended, but food for thought).

As ruthless as he was, to cheer like this seems a bit on the barbaric side, demeaning us to his level (yes, I do understand though why people would cheer. There were many people who suffered in ways words cannot describe under this tyrant). Yes, I watched that Google Video. I don't like watching people die, but I'll admit, curiosity took over. Indeed, it's not grusome, just a hanging. Nevertheless, I'm speechless at the sight.

Nonetheless, this won't bring Iraq any closer to healing. While Pinochet's death has allowed Chile to close a dark chapter in its history, the death of Saddam is overshadowed by the virtual implosion of the country he brutalized. The only positive I see in this is that Saddam has at least paid for his crimes and that he won't be around if/when Iraq should stabilize from the mess it currently is in, thus allowing them to move forward much faster. At least, one can only hope.

Iraq has a looooooooong way to go. This event was not even an anonymous mile marker on that road to recovery...rather one of the lane stripes. And there's more to go.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
peterk
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:34 pm

1.) If (to recite an often heard phrase) "letting someone rot in prison is much more of a punishment than death penalty", then why do the same people say in other posts that death penalty is worse?

2.) And why then not chose death penalty in the case of Saddam Hussein? Or is his little 'record' not commensurate to death penalty?

3.) And why then is "letting someone rot in prison" often seen as taking the 'high (moral) road' and not dragging ourselves (the society) down to the level of the criminal - as if Saddam Hussein didn't let his country and it's people 'rot' (for a quarter of a century) just for his own enrichment?
Something perfect can only get worse
 
Falcon84
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Bwest (Reply 42):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 33):
Why should anyone who ordered the deaths of thousands, probably killed a few hundred, at least, personally himself, started two major war, get any respect. Why do you think such a scum deserves respect. Respect is EARNED, not conferred.

Would hou have shown any respect to old scrambledbrains Hitler, just before he blew his head off? I doubt it-he didn't deserve it.

Hey, I know a president who started two major wars. The first one was justified and came as a reaction to a terrible attack on his county. The second one however (which has killed far more people), was based on lies... lets bring him before a court too shall we, it's the right thing to do!

Nice dodge of the question. Mr. Bush, for all his faults, isn't a mass-murderer in the form of Adopf or Saddam. He hasn't directly ordered the death of anyone. Was he wrong in starting the war? Yes. Does that make him a criminal, that should be hauled in front of a court? No.

Now, what would you have done with old Adolpf Shickelgruber, had he lived: given him death? Or some wussy "life with the possibility of parole", as so many European countries do this day and age?

Most people, with any sense, know the answer to that one.
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captaink
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:45 pm

Quoting Peterk (Reply 44):
1.) If (to recite an often heard phrase) "letting someone rot in prison is much more of a punishment than death penalty", then why do the same people say in other posts that death penalty is worse?

 checkmark 

I totally agree. But also murder is murder and no one has the right to take someone's life away. The death penalty doesn't cancel off the crime done, it doesn't bring back the loved ones lost, and it hardly makes them feel better. Secondly agreeing with Peterk, a death sentence is an easy way to go, they got off in my opinion. Life in prison with hard labour, now we talking a little more punishment. Imagine Saddam working the fields in the hot sun every day for the rest of his life?
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174thfwff
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:02 pm

Here, this is the kind of stuff Saddam would pull

Watch this move everyone!!! (found in link below)
http://www.aei.org/events/eventID.844,filter.all/event_detail.asp

"For the last 30 years, Iraqis inside Iraq had little knowledge of the full extent of Saddam Hussein's oppressive tactics. Many Iraqis who have documented his regime's history argue that Coalition authorities have not done enough to make this history known to the Iraqi people, and proponents of more stringent de-Baathification argue that until this education is completed, Saddam-era officials cannot be trusted with the rule of the new state.

Much of the recent controversy surrounding Abu Ghraib has made only vague reference to the prison's nightmarish past. Under Saddam Hussein, some thirty thousand people were executed there, and countless more were tortured and mutilated, returning to Iraqi society as visible evidence of the brutality of Baathist rule instead of being lost to the anonymity of mass graves.

Seven of these victims were Baghdadi merchants whose right hands were amputated and presented to Saddam as proof of their punishment. They have recently received medical attention in the United States, and now have the use of modern prosthetic hands. Four of these victims will speak of their experiences before returning to Iraq. In addition to their presentations, an unedited video documenting acts of torture during Saddam's reign will be shown, and our Iraqi guests will identify persons conducting the torture who hold office in Iraq today.


10:15 a.m.
Registration

10:30
Panelists:
Five Saddam-era torture victims


Commentator:
Richard Perle, AEI


Moderator:
Michael A. Ledeen, AEI

12:30 p.m.
Adjournment"
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:18 pm

A) Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 170):
would that "comfort" have damaged the lifes of ordinary Iraqis ? hardly
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The victims not getting the justice they deserve?
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# proper justice is NOT serving the desires of victims for revenge.
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B) Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 170):
NO Sir, this is impossible. Impossibe because A) you canNOT hang him 1000 times, and B) you should NOT get into revenge justice. Revenge justice would mean a revival of torture chambers etc. C) what the victims need is social +material +psychological +financial support just as the one provided by the organisation of Mr Gorbatchov.
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Revenge is impossble in this case because all the victims cannot do whatever they want to Hussein,a s you stated.
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But giving Hussein the highest punishment is the best and the fairest way to the victims and their familes.
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# my point simply is that LIFE IMPRISONMENT ought to BE the "highest punishment"
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C) Quoting PPVRA (Reply 175):
But giving Hussein the highest punishment is the best and the fairest way to the victims and their familes.
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It also sends out a nice signal to other dictators around the world - after all, we must not forget that the death penalty is a deterrant sarcastic - which says in simple words:
"If you do get ousted, don't worry. There will be a farce of a trial giving you the opportunity to put on one last show for your supporters. After that, you will die a quick death and turn into a martyr for some quicker than the idiots who had you killed will realise. Your legacy will live on since no one will really care about the past once you're dead."
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# other dictators around the world in general, and tyrants most particularily, will NOT take the signal in your way. They will NOT go soft. They will fully resist as long as possible, and at whatever costs, and/or flee to wherever they can. Because most tyrants and many of the "milder" dictators have given their approval to more than just one "summary execution".
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D) Justice is what some guy is going to get if I ever catch him fooling with my little granddaughter. It's going to be quick and final. And I will happily stand trial for it. Call that revenge and I won't argue with you.
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# I would call that "lynch-justice" or "revenge-justice". It is NOT what modern justice and justice in a democracy is all about
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E) Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 170):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 170):
the USA in WW-II were neutral for 3 years until the Japanese, allied with Nazi Germany attacked Pearl Harbour on 7th December 1941 . the US ambassador to the United Kingdom, Mr Joseph Kennedy clearly told FDR that the Brits might learn from the Germans how to work
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Uhhmm...True, the Brits and the Soviet were soldiering on before US entry, but I wonder who provided the logistics (planes, trucks, bombs, fuel, ammunition, and food) for the Brits and some to the Soviet and China before 1941, ya know.
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# the Brits and Soviets were fighting with their own logistics. Britain produced airplanes, trucks, bombs, ammunition, and HAD access to fuel and food supplies. While Britain and the Soviet Union might have had the chance to persevere on their own, without US support, the Liberation of Continental Europe would NOT have been possible without the USA. But before December 1941, the USA economically co-operated also with Nazi-Germany, with companies like Opel getting full US-supplies.
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http://www.anwarweb.net/saddamdown.wmv
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/mel...0,1185,OID6250864_NAV_REF1,00.html
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F) CPH813 From Denmark, joined Dec 2006, 22 posts, RR: 1
Reply 196, posted Sat Dec 30 2006 23:05:34 UTC (12 hours 51 minutes 49 secs ago) and read 405 times:
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I don't support the killing of Saddam Hussein. That's like sinking to his own level and it is not the duty for a government to kill its people just like Saddam shouldn't have killed innocent Iraqis either.
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He should have been sentenced to spend the rest of his life in a prison, and either he was sick and was born sick or something earlier in his life made him what he became later on. If either of that is the case, you can't blame him 100%, therefore wrong to sentence anyone to death no matter how cruel a person has been. That's inhumane.
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# For the US president it is NOT "inhumane" but a milestone on the way to democracy . He apparently is full of joy .
-----------------------------------------------
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 2):
I'm not sure Saddam could have been housed in a jail cell safely-- for the guards assigned to watch him.
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I can imagine at some point in the future someone overtaking the guards to allow Saddam to escape.
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I would not want to put any guard under that risk.
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I am not shedding any tears.

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He could have been safely housed in far-away places like St. Helena, Tristan-da-Cunha, the South-Sandwich-Islands, the South-Orkney-Islands, or the Macquarie-Islands .
-- and shedding tears ? hardly required !
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Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
Well I cracked open a beer as I watched.

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he may have deserved whatever, but your lack of respect in sight of death is NOT a show of standards. The video was/is a requirement as proof to the public. Saddam may be complimented for the calm and self-controlled bearing in this situation, and that he was allowed at least to start the Shahada was a fair last gesture of the executioners.
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Quoting Futureualpilot (Reply 7):
After what he did during his regime, do you think he deserves any respect? I certainly don't.

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NOT so much he as a person, but DEATH on one side and he as somebody up for imminant execution. It is a matter of general decency and decent behaviour, also due in case of a criminal.
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Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
he got so much respect by Donald Rumsfeld that he visited him - Years after he had committed the crimes he was hanged for yesterday.

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as much as I DISlike Mr Rumsfeld, a word in his defence. In those days, half the world visited and courted Saddam Hussein al-Takriti . But yes of course, he in those times was kept in high regard in many places. Such a nice partner !
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Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14):
I definitely wouldn't see this video............In my opinion ,this barbaric act is similar to any other terrorist act
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The video is not very graphic, and pans away after Saddam starts falling, then comes back with a shot of him laying on the ground. It's a good job of showing Saddam is dead for the non-believers out there without being obscene

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and it shows that death comes/came very quickly, not least in combination with the shock of falling
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Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
- After the oil crisis of 1973 France had changed to a more pro-Arab policy and was accordingly rewarded by Saddam with closer ties. He made a state visit to France in 1976, cementing close ties with some French business and conservative political circles. -

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> France changed to a less pro-Israeli and more even-handed policy in the 1960ies during the PrimeMinisterial term of Prime Minister Maurice Couve de Murville
> Saddam in 1976 could NOT do a "state-visit" but only an "official visit" as he then just was Vice-President. President in 1976 was General Ahmed Hassan el-Bakr
> Iraq also after 1958 had close relations with the United Kingdom, so that also military gear went to Iraq from the UK until the 1980ies . Iraq had very close relations with the Soviet Union and with Egypt, and after 1978 (the change in Tehran) with the USA
-

Quoting TNNH (Reply 26):
100 yrs ago we were communicating via smoke signals.

http://memory.loc.gov/mss/mmorse/071/071009/0001d.gif
+ here the explanation: First telegraph message, 24 May 1844
When decoded, this paper tape recording of the historic message transmitted by Samuel F. B. Morse reads, "What hath God wrought?" Morse sent it from the Supreme Court room in the U.S. Capitol in Washington to his assistant, Alfred Vail, in Baltimore. Morse's early system produced a paper copy with raised dots and dashes, which were translated later by an operator. Across the top of this artifact of his historic achievement Morse has given credit to Annie Ellsworth, the young daughter of a good friend, for suggesting the message he sent. She found it in the Bible, Numbers 23:23.
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162 years ago ! a side aspect, true, but I could NOT resist !  Wink wink/being sarcastic
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baroque
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:43 pm

There was a question about some seeming downcast at the execution of Saddam. Some are indeed downcast, but more at the rejoicing of some at the hanging of Saddam than at the loss of Saddam. I was going to write juvenile rejoicing, when I realised that these days many juveniles are far too mature to run around getting their kicks from the Tyburn Jig.

It all reminds me of the tolling of the bell from John Donne:
"http://djryan.tripod.com/inspirations/poems/bell.html"

"Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee."

Boeing4ever properly noted that “the death of Saddam is overshadowed by the virtual
implosion of the country he brutalized.

The coalition of the willing's awful epitaph looks like being:
Saddam Hussein came this way and terrorised the land and its people - he
was hanged.
The coalition came this way. They terrorised the land and its people and
ruined the length and breadth of the land - ?.

Bwest commented “Because at least that would show him that we are more
civilised, more evolved than he is. We don't have to go around killing
people. He would have the rest of his life to think about his acts.” Would that it were so.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:58 am

No Fear.Amazing.
Justice was done though.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 11):
Once you go down that road, then the Treaty of Westphalia concept (whatever happens within a sovereign nations' borders is their business) goes out the window, and, with that, the concept of sovereign independence. At that point, we all have the right to intervene in each others' affairs -- if we can enforce it.

Few nations have that ability, the United States is one, but look at the enormous difficulties the US military is having in Iraq right now against a loose alliance of militias, many of whom are fighting each other as well as the US. Maybe the UK, maybe France. Look at the problems Russia has had in Chechnya, it's been over 15 years IIRC.

Great post Connies4ever, I tried to answer earlier but I think I got caught up in the deletions, or maybe it was the New Year.

In particular, this is an important point. If intervention had not occurred, Saddam might have negotiated a way out, and that might not have been a bad thing. Certainly not obviously worse than the current outcome.

I cannot think that either the UK or France is going to rush in anywhere soon, you have to wonder if the UK will again intervene in Africa.

Has the US lost its enthusiasm for intervention? Time will tell. If it does decide to intervene again, one would hope that its grounds were more clearly set out, and above all accurate. One would also hope that it also had a plan for after it arrived on the ground. It is astonishing it took so long for Rumsfeld to take the fall for that, and still only Rumsfeld. I don't count Powell as taking a fall because he seems to have advised against the adventure.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:29 am

Whatever that evil demon may have done in the past, his behaviour and his bearing at his execution was calm and self-controlled to an admirable extent. He was a bad tyrant and a "devil in disguise" but here at his last moment has shown true format !

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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:53 am

here an interesting statement of Majed Jarrar on his http://me-vs-myself.blogspot.com
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quote :
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Saturday, December 30, 2006
End of Saddam

As I woke up this morning to welcome the sun of the happy day of Eid Al-Adha, I saw the breaking news that Saddam had been just executed. The first moment I heard the news, I was shocked. I felt deep sadness and great loss. It reminded me of the similar feeling I had when I saw the statue of Saddam falling at Al-Firdaws circle. with those two events, I felt that the dignity of Iraqis, my dignity, was targeted. Just like how I felt that the soldier who put his shoe on the head of Saddam's statue was putting his shoe over the soveriegnty of Iraq, in the same perspective the execution seemed to be the first step of the mission of wiping Iraq off the map as a united state. Saddam died the moment he was caught in that rat hole, but this execution was targeting Iraq's sovereignty and unity.

It filled me with rage and frustration to see Saddam killed by a bunch of leaders who deserve to be killed ten times more than he did. I never liked Saddam, in fact I always hated him as much as I could. I did admit that he did several good things to Iraq and Iraqis and that he was above all a national leader but the fact that he wronged many people and killed many civilians made it impossible for me to think of forgiving him. But now, I feel that Saddam was the last thing left from the unity of Iraq. And I fear that his death might bring doom on Iraqis, and the end to Iraq as a united state.
It is very shameful to see how ridiculous the court is. When it was first established by Paul Bremer, they were talking about preserving international law and human rights. But now as both the American and Iraqi government are about to collapse, the court suddenly decides to override all international laws and apply the sentence of death on Saddam regardless of the international doubts and denials about its legitimacy, professionality and credibility.

But, this is all good.

Saddam's death is obviously the last card that the Bush Adminstration of losers had, and it was also the last card that Iran could draw. I had predicted that Saddam's execution will be delayed until the last days of Bush's presidency in 2008. But having this execution taking place now will blow the entire Iraqi situation up. In addition, the increasing resistance will prove to the world that the situation is not terrible because of those 'Saddamists'. The death of Saddam will strip down all the excuses from the Bush Adminstration and will prove that resistance is a national choice and the American Army must withdraw from Iraq.

I am already looking forward to the political earthquakes that shall happen in 2007 inshaAllah!

But most importantly, happy Eid to everyone :

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unquote
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:57 am

and here his brother, Khalid Jarrar on his http://secretsinbaghdad.blogspot.com
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quote
..........................................................................................
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Saturday, December 30, 2006
Saddam's execution...
Hello everyone.

Saddam was executed today, as you all know, and although I knew since yesterday that he was gonna be hanged this morning but I was still very surprised, to be honest with you, It was much quicker than I thought it would be.

You know that I always opposed Saddam and was always against him. Nevertheless, I was upset today.

Saddam was a criminal dictator, and he deserves to be hanged, but still, what happened isn't right.

Saddam should be trailled for all his crimes, against ALL IRAQIS, ALL IRAQIS, all the crimes he committed against Iraqis, Shea, Kurds and yes, yes, yes: against Sonna too.

Saddam was a dictator that would kill whoever opposes him, and would award whoever is loyal to him, he killed both husbands of his two daughters who also happen to be his cousins [two sunnies, his own blood] when they turned against him, and at the same time, you can take a quick look at the 56 cards of the most wanted Iraqi officials that the occupation distributed couple of years ago [remember it?] and you will notice that many of them were Shea!
It's only fair that Saddam is questioned about all his crimes against all Iraqis, all Iraqis.
Executing him after the Dijel trial only is nothing but a political statement, just so the Media can say: Saddam was punished for killing 148 SHEA, just another cheap shot to confirm the first story of "liberating poor Shea from the oppression of Saddam and Sunna".
Saddam, have killed thousands and thousands of Kurds and of Sonna, of Christians and all other groups living in Iraq, and It's only fair that he is questioned about all those, all the crimes he made against Iraqis.

Back in the nineties, must have been around 1995 or so if I recall right, Saddam executed a number of Baghdad's wealthiest merchants and took over all their possessions because he accused them of being a reason behind some of the economic suffering of Iraqis [by doing certain trade tricks to increase prices maybe? By monopolizing food and goods? Something like that] and left them hanging in the streets of Baghdad. Now I bet you haven't heard of that have you? Why? Because they don't have a label! They are not "poor Shea" or "poor Kurds" they are just Iraqis, and being Iraqi isn't good for the occupation's propaganda, you need to be Shea or Kurdish so that you fit in their propaganda stories of going to Iraq to liberate a certain oppressed sect of Iraqi people. Thousands of crimes like that happened in Iraq, and Iraqis have all the right to sue Saddam for them, even if individually, he hurt every single person in Iraq, even if he didn't physically hurt him or his family, still he deprived them of their rights, many rights, including their share of Iraq's wealth, and killed so many Iraqis, and because of his foolish policy he put the country in two destructive wars [I know I know, supported by many different external parties, including the USA], that among many other things, and for these crimes, all Iraqis deserve to sue him and sentence him, with whatever they decide in the court of laws.

So that was my first problem: The trials should have gone all the way to the end before executing him.

A thought: Shea and Sonna, lived together, side by side since ever. The biggest tribes in Iraq that are distributed all over Iraq, have Sonni, Shea parts of the tribe, depending on where they are. Mixed marriages between Sonna and Shea are so common, my parents for example and the parents of soooo many of the people I know. The sectarian tension now in Iraq is a politically based tensions: evidence one: history of living peacefully together historically, before Saddam even! Two: a whole year passed after the war before any sectarian tension started, and it didn't start before Bremer laid down the bases of the first Iraqi government basing on sectarian bases. Three: there are about a million Iraqis in Jordan, no sectarian tension among those at all. All three points and others mean: Sectarian problems in Iraq started when the occupation came, and It's politically based and can be solved politically, too.

My second problem: The current government is by no means legitimate enough to trial Saddam, as horrible as he was, he is far, way far more decent and humane and smart than all the clowns in the Iraqi government now. Saddam should be tried by Iraqis, real Iraqis with real authority and sovereignty, real government that cares for the best interests of Iraqis, and maybe add to that: has less death squads and secret tortur chambers. And less loyalty to Iran and USA wouldn't kill too. And this is something that upsets me a lot, his death had nothing o do with justice, not even close, not even in the same zip code, it was nothing but a personal revenge and a political card: A political card for the losers in the American administration and the Iraqi government that don't have anything else to brag about achieving except killing him, and a personal revenge: Now new footages were published about the last moments of his death, and the people that witnessed his execution were chanting the name of Al-Sadir [The father of Moqtada that it's widely believed that Saddam assassinated him]. Hmmm.

My third problem is the effect of this execution on Iraq: Saddam died the moment that his statue fell back in 2003. He stopped being the decision maker in Iraq. Now in this time of Iraq's life all the efforts are being directed to be able to build some kind of national unity government, that includes all Iraqi parties, a representative government that helps everyone get involved in the Iraqi government and in making decisions [as if the Iraqi government really makes decisions on it's own anyways] and now that a lot of the parties were included in the new negotiations including (ex) Baathists that want to join the new political process, at this really critical time, they execute Saddam, Baathists were very offended and very upset, today I heard a spokesman of Baath party speaking from a neighboring country on one of t he satelite channels saying that baathists promise to continue their fight and to revenge for the death of Saddam. What the hell was the American/Iraqi government thinking? So in addition to the point that it's really not the best thing to do when you want to attracts baathists to be a part of the new Iraq, it's gonna increase violence on the ground, even if temporarily, how many extra souls are we gonna have to lose because of this?

My fourth problem: the timing of the execution in the first day of the Adha Eid, the single biggest religious/social holiday for Muslims. A festival of happiness and Joy where people are supposed to be celebrating, and the execute him in it? Iraqi law prohibits carrying out executions in the religious holidays btw. I am sure that they thought that executing him in this day will absurd some of the anger since it's Eid time, and Eid lasts for four days. But really it won't, people are offended by this very much, and in this Eid Muslims sacrifice a sheep usually, and usually it's about 5-6 am in the first day of Eid when they slaughter them. And that's the exact time when they hanged him, what are they trying to say exactly? And executing him instead of shooting him is also offending, being a military man. The was he was taken to execution brought him sympathy from lot's of Iraqis, including myself. I was very upset when I heard that he was executed, it wasn't justice and it didn't feel right at all, it was more like a 60-something years old man in the hands of a dirty gang executing him for personal and political reasons that it was implementing justice.

Some argue that the government wanted to execute him to send a message to baathists that their leader was killed so they would lose hope, but what happened really is that they made him a martyr in the eyes of his supporters and became an inspiration. Good job.

Why did the American/Iraqi government wanted to kill him so quickly? what is it that they didn't want him to say? the source of the chemical weapons he used against Kurds? the details of the west support during his war with Iran? what exactly is it?

I Don't know what to say, I just wish that at his last moments he regretted his crimes and asked God for forgiveness. I wish that from all my heart, I just don't wanna think of his fate facing God with all what he did. I hope that his sad end, the death of his two children, being removed from the presidency of Iraq and taking away all the power he had, seperating him from his daughters and wife, I hope that all these disasters made him remember God and cry a tear and pray for forgiveness, God is so forgiving and so mercyful, who knows? May all souls rest in Peace.

I had more to say but I just forgot it now, I will say it when I remember it, and I haven't editted this one really, almost directly from my head to your eyes, so I hope that I will get to edit it tomorrow too!

posted by khalid jarrar at 8:18 PM
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unquote
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F9Animal
Posts: 4548
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:02 am

I am glad that the Saddam chapter is over for the Iraqis. I just hope that Iraq will pull from the ashes, and become a country of wealth and happiness. I have lost faith in my government during the Iraq issue, but I have not lost faith in seeing the men, women, and children of Iraq live in peace. I hope the new year brings new hope, and most importantly, new peace.

I am proud of our men and women working so hard to rebuild Iraq. I support our troops, and I hope they can come home soon. The sooner the violence stops, the sooner we can bring our boys and girls home. If only the "evil doers" would just understand that. <---- Sorry, the last sentence was Bush taking control of my mind.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:37 am

ME AVN FAN,

You have to learn to make your point with less typing.

Who do you think is gonna read all that?

I read my part you replied to and only gonna say it depends. I don't think you're fully right nor fully wrong. Some people just never learn. What I said may have more of an effect on people who are not yet "bad" or at least to the extent Hussein was.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 48):
I just wish that at his last moments he regretted his crimes and asked God for forgiveness.

I think that in itself is pretty telling, don't you think?
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 55):
I just wish that at his last moments he regretted his crimes and asked God for forgiveness.
--
I think that in itself is pretty telling, don't you think?

-
May be, but I would rather "classify" this as wishful thinking. No, I am quite sure that Saddam had it with Edith Piaf "Non, je ne regrette rien ! "
-
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Saddam Execution Thread Pt. 2

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:02 am

The more I think about the execution of Saddam, the dumber it seems to me. Bush really wanted this fast, but again he showed no signs of understanding for others. He was scared of Saddam's return to power and wanted to create a fait accompli (if you excuse the French term.) However, what he left out was that

- the whole basis for the death verdict was the massacre of Dudschail. How will all his other crimes be treated now? Why wasn't there a process for the other ones?

- the timing was awfully bad, because it comes together with this Muslim holiday. This will only result in further hatred.

- these videos showing the execution, especially that second one, and the showing of the corpse is very insulting, it will certainly create more hatred.

@
UH60FtRucker

In the other thread you wrote that I was wrong about that more troops will not solve the problem. But I'll stay on that position. Your problem is that you don't understand the Iraqis, and your presence and what you do there only fuels the resistance. It can not be beaten with military force alone, that was clearly visible in the last years.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011

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