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JeepBoy
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The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:43 pm

Just a quick posting of two news articles about one of our most ordinary community leaders. Does anyone think that the Mufti of Sydney should be ever allowed back into Australia?

News courtesy of the Australian and the Sydney Morning Herald:

""Hilali ridicules nation of convicts

SHEIK Taj Din al-Hilali has ridiculed his adopted country on Egyptian television, dismissing the furore over his insults to women and defence of gang rapists while claiming Muslims had more right to live in Australia than the descendants of convicts. ""

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/

THE controversial Muslim leader Sheik Taj el-din al Hilaly has savaged Australia in an interview on Egyptian television, claiming there is no freedom or democracy for Muslims here and that English people are the most unjust and dishonest.

The senior cleric said Muslims were more Australian than Anglo-Saxons because they came here voluntarily, that Australians played the "fear card" to keep Muslims down, and that racial prejudice was the reason for the 55-year sentence given to the gang rapist Bilal Skaf.

"Anglo-Saxons came to Australia in chains, while we paid our way and came in freedom. We are more Australian than them. Australia is not an Anglo-Saxon country - Islam has deep roots in Australian soil that were there before the English arrived," Sheik Hilaly said.

Australia's most controversial cleric was talking on the Egyptian news program Cairo Today, shown in Australia on the Orbit satellite network on Tuesday morning.

The interview, in Arabic, was about the furore he created in October with a Ramadan sermon in which he compared scantily clad women with "uncovered meat", suggesting they were responsible for rape, called women Satan's soldiers to deceive men, and said thieves often stole because they were pressured by greedy women.

After the "uncovered meat" sermon Sheik Hilaly offered to stand down as mufti if an independent panel found he had blamed women for rape. His future will be decided next month by the eight-man executive of a new national board of imams, of which he is a member.

In the half-hour program Sheik Hilaly said the controversy showed how standards were skewed and claims were fabricated. "There is no freedom and no democracy [for Muslims] - the most dishonest and unjust people are Western people and the English in particular."

He said Australian law allowed freedoms that at times were "close to madness", and that Australia had a third gender of "in-between people who are not male or female".

The Prime Minister, John Howard, asked about the sheik's reference to convicts, said: "I think it will bring a wry smile, if it's true … to the face of many Australians who sort of don't actually feel the least bit offended that many of our ancestors came here as convicts."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...lish/2007/01/11/1168105115861.html

jb
*yay*
 
baroque
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):
Does anyone think that the Mufti of Sydney should be ever allowed back into Australia?

Oh yes, bring him back for a ceremonial reception of his latest wit and wisdom.
Seriously, however, it would be silly to ban him, better to have him back here and have Kayser Trad do his usual double talk than ban him.
With a bit of luck, his own mosque will tire of him and kick him out which would at last be progress.
To call him primitive is an insult to the primitive and he is also mad. No point in hiding him.
 
qr332
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:46 am

I blame Australia for letting him get away with this crap... I hope he gets dismissed and enjoys the rest of his life in Cairo slum, not Sydney. Seriously, he must have some nerve emigrating somewhere and then ridiculing it back in his "home" country.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
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yowza
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):
called women Satan's soldiers

Well some are...  Wink

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):
the most dishonest and unjust people are Western people and the English in particular."

Let's see, this guy is Egyptian; I lived in the UK for 7 years, never got robbed or anything. I've been to Egypt 4 times, got pick-pocketed twice in Sharm and had cash stolen from my hotel once.

Sadly this ass has the right to say what he wants as long as he's not calling for an uprising or anything equally stupid. That could land him in jail.

PS not all white Aussies are descendants of convicts, lots of ethincities, Greeks, Croatians, Italians and on and on.

YOWza
 
TNNH
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:48 am

he's right, australians are the worst!

drink too much, girls too hot, weather too warm, people too damn friendly, economy too robust, cities too fun, just a real genuine piece of shit place.
 
bill142
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:59 am

If you ignore it, it goes away. So let's all get togeather and ignore him.
 
Slyguy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:11 am

Seriously, I think this guy only says these controversial things so as to get his head on national T.V. Because other than when he opens his big trap we don't even know he is alive.
never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow
 
bill142
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:37 am

Problem

Quoting Slyguy (Reply 6):
Seriously, I think this guy only says these controversial things so as to get his head on national T.V. Because other than when he opens his big trap we don't even know he is alive.

Solution

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
If you ignore it, it goes away. So let's all get togeather and ignore him.
 
Slyguy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
If you ignore it, it goes away. So let's all get togeather and ignore him.

I agree %110.

But we have a little thing here called "MEDIA" and they will take any chance to report what THEY think is in the public interest.
They (the media) have no idea what is in OUR interest unfortunately.
never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow
 
bill142
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:55 am

If viewers turn off, the media begins to learn.

No viewers = no $$$
 
MaverickM11
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):
that racial prejudice

I just can't imagine where that racial prejudice could come from Yeah sure, with guys around like Mufti Hilaly.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Slyguy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9):
If viewers turn off, the media begins to learn.

No viewers = no $$$

Exactly.

Unfortunately I think we are in the minority of people who actually understand this fact.
never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow
 
VHOJC
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:13 am

This jerk is complete nutjob!!! His statements only make it worse for everyother muslum australian trying to provide their families with a better life.
When there is nothing left to burn...set yourself on fire!!!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:22 am

hangon...the english cricket fans have been down here ridiculing us to our faces for the past 2 months. not a word has been said about that...i find it amazing how the media seeks out his interviews from 15000km's away, must be short of a story or 20 down here.

anyways..we are a convict colony, nothing will change that...we're not as free as we used to be & i'm not a descendant of any convict, i'm Greek/Australian so i couldn't give a fat rats about the ball & chain bullshit.
 
Stealthz
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:05 am

Quote:
Islam has deep roots in Australian soil that were there before the English arrived," Sheik Hilaly said.

Really!! Like to see how he explains that, guess I won't though he rarely feels the need to justify or explain his rantings.
And is it any wonder his congregation is more than a little confused about things....
Quote:
"There is no freedom and no democracy [for Muslims]

Quote:
He said Australian law allowed freedoms that at times were "close to madness"

Cheers

[Edited 2007-01-12 02:06:49]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14):
Really!! Like to see how he explains that, guess I won't though he rarely feels the need to justify or explain his rantings.

believe it or not mate he is right about that...afghans first came here in the early 1800's.
 
BA
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:58 am

He's an idiot. I hate these religious "authorities."

I second QR332's statement. If he hates Australia so much, he should spend his life in Cairo's slums which are among the most impoverished in the world...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:09 am

i dont think anyone takes him seriously down here anyways...he's just another loud mouth with something to say, no different to a politician in many respects.
 
JeepBoy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):

He said Australian law allowed freedoms that at times were "close to madness", and that Australia had a third gender of "in-between people who are not male or female".

I can see this quote going down well with the gay and lesbian community. No doubt we will see something amusing done on the imam in the Mardi Gras parade this year.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 13):
hangon...the english cricket fans have been down here ridiculing us to our faces for the past 2 months. not a word has been said about that...i find it amazing how the media seeks out his interviews from 15000km's away, must be short of a story or 20 down here.

I think the whole problem is that he, as a community leader to muslims in Sydney has a responsibility to represent the views of that community. And in making these rash and incomprehensible statements is only alienating the muslim community even more.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 13):
anyways..we are a convict colony, nothing will change that...we're not as free as we used to be & i'm not a descendant of any convict, i'm Greek/Australian so i couldn't give a fat rats about the ball & chain bullshit.

Where I was a teenager (in Queensland) those of us white aussies would always say we had some relative that was a "first fleeter" - which when I think back was pretty zenophobic - but still patriotic in a strange way. Besides which, convicts or not, most of Australia's convict population was nothing more than petty theives who stole to feed themselves.

jb
*yay*
 
jafa39
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:40 am

Where is QFF when you need him?  Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
TSV
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14):
Islam has deep roots in Australian soil that were there before the English arrived," Sheik Hilaly said.



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 15):
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14):
Really!! Like to see how he explains that, guess I won't though he rarely feels the need to justify or explain his rantings.

believe it or not mate he is right about that...afghans first came here in the early 1800's.

Well unless any of Dutch that visited before Cook in 1770 and the First Fleet in 1788 were Muslims he (and you) is (are) incorrect.
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Stealthz
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 15):
believe it or not mate he is right about that...afghans first came here in the early 1800's.

Well no he isn't, the first useful group of camels were brought here in the mid 1800's for the Burke & Wills expedition, "English" settlement was in the late 1700's.
When it was realised how useful camels were for transport in the arid inland "Afghan" camel drivers were brought in to handle the camel trains. Certainly NOT before "English" settlement.
Curiously enough most were not "Afghans" but Pathan tribesmen from what was then the North West frontier of British India and is now part of Pakistan.

cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting TSV (Reply 20):

Well unless any of Dutch that visited before Cook in 1770 and the First Fleet in 1788 were Muslims he (and you) is (are) incorrect.

that maybe the case...guess we'll never know, but it's a fact that the muslims had a marked impact on this country less then 50 years after Cook arrived. but you'd have to be able to trace back further then 1770 to prove they arrived earlier. You don't know for a fact that it never happend, i don't know for a fact that it did..but as i said, i do know the muslim community has been in this country for near on 200 years.

hell of alot longer then the vietnamese, chinese, italians, greeks & what not.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 21):
Well no he isn't, the first useful group of camels were brought here in the mid 1800's for the Burke & Wills expedition, "English" settlement was in the late 1700's.

my misinterpretation...what i'm saying is that afghans/muslims have had a large impact on this country over a long period of time, that's where i do agree with him, whether or not they set foot on this land before 1770 none of us know.

http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/afghans.htm

anyways...why are we talking about a person we can't stand? over it!

[Edited 2007-01-12 04:12:57]
 
Stealthz
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:26 pm

Maybe he should of said....
Islam has deep roots in Australian soil that were there before the vietnamese, chinese, italians, greeks & what not arrived,

Quote:
thieves often stole because they were pressured by greedy women.

Is this just another way of saying.. behind every great man there is a .......? Big grin
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 24):
Is this just another way of saying.. behind every great man there is a

great pussy...lol!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
I've been to Egypt 4 times, got pick-pocketed twice in Sharm and had cash stolen from my hotel once.

-
I have been in Egypt several times and never got anything stolen, in spite of open windows of my hired car and a at times not too careful "handling" of my photo equipment. The only times I had a "break-in" into my car were in Zurich and in Strassburg. But no problems in Egypt.
-

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):

PS not all white Aussies are descendants of convicts, lots of ethincities, Greeks, Croatians, Italians and on and on.

and, I neither blame Australia, Egypt, Greece, Croatia, Italy, I simply DO blame that incredibly person !
-

Quoting Slyguy (Reply 8):
But we have a little thing here called "MEDIA" and they will take any chance to report what THEY think is in the public interest.

at least TWO such "things" and that is Australian media AND Egyptian media. People of both "communities" possibly do not realize that the man uses them for his "ambitions"
-

Quoting BA (Reply 16):
He's an idiot. I hate these religious "authorities."
I second QR332's statement. If he hates Australia so much, he should spend his life in Cairo's slums which are among the most impoverished in the world...

-
might absolutely agree, EXCEPT that I expect the idiot NOT to live in a slum but to live in a nice house out in Heliopolis
-
 
JeepBoy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:42 pm

They just played the interview the Imam did on the nightly news here in Sydney then they flicked over to the Mosque in Lakemba and tried to interview some of his flock. Obviously none had much to say, the imams family had nothing to say to the media other than:

"Due to the Sheiks poor health we haven't contacted him with these news.."

Poor health? I'm pretty sure if my health was that "poor" I wouldn't be travelling overseas and appearing on Egyptian talk show television looking like a pig in shit and smilling over dissing Australia.

The Premier of New South Wales (Sydney) commented (and various other politicians) that the sheik should "stay where he is". ROLF!

jb
*yay*
 
baroque
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 15):
believe it or not mate he is right about that...afghans first came here in the early 1800's.

Well long before all that the Bugis were coming to NW Australia from Sulawesi probably before even they converted to Islam, but certainly after. Probably the Timorese too from Roti.

His main problem would be that Egypt had Christians long before they had Islam, so all the Muslims should leave Egypt on his argument.

He must be working for Mossad as his argument could be extended to tell the Palestinians to bugger off!!! Big grin

No, Hilaly is an idiot. Total and utter.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:20 pm

The man is a fool. Ignore him.

Quoting JeepBoy (Thread starter):
Does anyone think that the Mufti of Sydney should be ever allowed back into Australia?

Yes, I think he should be allowed back. He is (I understand) an Australian - and this is his country and he has a right to return. As much as the "ban everything" brigade, headed by the conservative media would like it - we can't banish Australians from our shores because they say things a majority of people don't agree with.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 13):
anyways..we are a convict colony, nothing will change that...we're not as free as we used to be & i'm not a descendant of any convict, i'm Greek/Australian so i couldn't give a fat rats about the ball & chain bullshit.

No, we are not a convict colony. The late 19th century changed that. This nation never has been a convict colony. Transportation was a geographically isolated practice relevant to the former colonies of the United Kingdom, not the modern independent nation of Australia. Why this issue has even come up is beyond my comprehension. I don't have a drop of British blood in me either, but I'm not going to absolve myself of my nation's legacy and public image.

As for the English raving on about the issue during the ashes. They were their people, it was their colony, and it was their social problem. Not ours. There never was an Australian convict.

Enough said.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Stealthz
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 29):
He is (I understand) an Australian

He is but the questionable perhaps criminal actions of former Federal ministers to allow him to become one could be the subject of another seperate discussion(No, it already has been!)

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 29):
There never was an Australian convict.

Well yes there are, our jails are full of them.. but we don't export them elsewhere when we can't handle them ourselves.
Apart from that damnit.. nearly agreed with one of QFF's posts!!  Smile
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 30):
He is but the questionable perhaps criminal actions of former Federal ministers to allow him to become one could be the subject of another seperate discussion(No, it already has been!)

Perhaps. But he is an Australian - just as much as you or me - like it or not.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 30):
Well yes there are, our jails are full of them.. but we don't export them elsewhere when we can't handle them ourselves.

Yes, I've often thought we are a land of infectious purity. Wouldn't you agree?

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
JeepBoy
Topic Author
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 29):
No, we are not a convict colony. The late 19th century changed that. This nation never has been a convict colony. Transportation was a geographically isolated practice relevant to the former colonies of the United Kingdom, not the modern independent nation of Australia.

Never a convict colony? Thats a bit of a strech saying that mate. Despite what modern purists might like to think and drivel on about we will always be known as the "convict colony" whether you like it or not. History dictates that one.

Modern Australia? Sounds like a cafe menu from the 90's. Modern Australia is now nothing more than a mine of resources to flog to the highest bidder. The imam would be better off slagging off John Howards work place policies than crapping on with whatever drivel he has been.

The next media (today tonight) tickle is an expose of Muslim australians living in large subsidised housing, driving big cars and sending their children to "private" muslim schools.

And lets not forget the Imam was questioned about inciting the revenge attacks on the people of the eastern suburbs after the Cronulla riots. The rally of cars in that debacle started right outside his Mosque in Lakemba.

jb
*yay*
 
baroque
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 30):
Well yes there are, our jails are full of them.. but we don't export them elsewhere when we can't handle them ourselves.

Er well, sort of not true either thanks to Ruddock. If you have been brought up in Australia but were born elsewhere and even though you do not have any other citizenship but have enjoyed the hospitality of our jails, then you are on his export list.

Makes you wonder if the English judges were asked to select for future cricketing ability!  stirthepot 
 
QFA380
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 32):
Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 29):

No, we are not a convict colony. The late 19th century changed that. This nation never has been a convict colony. Transportation was a geographically isolated practice relevant to the former colonies of the United Kingdom, not the modern independent nation of Australia.

Never a convict colony? Thats a bit of a strech saying that mate. Despite what modern purists might like to think and drivel on about we will always be known as the "convict colony" whether you like it or not. History dictates that one.

Modern Australia? Sounds like a cafe menu from the 90's. Modern Australia is now nothing more than a mine of resources to flog to the highest bidder. The imam would be better off slagging off John Howards work place policies than crapping on with whatever drivel he has been.

I think QFF is talking about Federation and what Sir Henry Parkes did in the late 19th Century. The Commonwealth of Australia as a nation is only 105 years and 12 days old, fairly young when compared to other nations, therefore considered can be modern. The Commonwealth of Australia was never a convict colony, although all the states were. Australians believe we were a convict colony, and they are where many Australians have their roots. Hate to say this but QFF is a rather politically correct person.

In your context of modern, that would be the the latter part of the 20th century and what is so far the 21st.

Also, the Sheikh needs something to hit the headlines, there are enough politicians slagging off John Howard about the Industrial Relations reforms. He needs to say something that will ignite a spark in many Australians.

What offends me the most about what this guy said, is that he thinks that gang rapists got sentences too harsh.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 33):
Makes you wonder if the English judges were asked to select for future cricketing ability!

Stirring the pot indeed, lol.
 
baroque
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:19 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 34):
Stirring the pot indeed, lol.

Well its a better explanation than you are going to read on the back page of the SMH in a few hours and it probably has better antecedants than most of the Sheiks frothings.

I think you will not be alone at being offended about the rape comments - more imortantly than our reactions however, is that his harping on this theme suggest that he really does believe that Australian women "ask for it" and that those guys being locked up is a form of selective revenge.

You have to wonder that it does not somehow fall foul of Ruddocks extraordinarily broad laws meant to stop the rest of us being rebellious!! There would be a nice irony.
 
jaysit
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:16 am

Call Barbara Walters pronto.

We've found Star Jones' substitute for the View.

It would be awesome to watch this dude, Rosie and Hasselcrack go at it.

Fur, fat, fake lashes and mullah beard hair would be flying!!!!
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:23 am

I'm not sure why we're still talking about convicts - but if you guys want to discuss this, okey dokey.

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 32):
Despite what modern purists might like to think and drivel on about we will always be known as the "convict colony" whether you like it or not.

I think that is an invention of your mind rather than a statement of fact. Ask 10 Americans what Australia is known for and I can promise you that those mentioning convicts would be in the extreme minority (if any mention them at all). The British like to think of us as convicts, despite the comment I made above.

I honestly think your belief that Australia is/should be pidgeon holed has more to do with your take on Australia's image and history rather than a sober study of international opinion.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 34):
I think QFF is talking about Federation and what Sir Henry Parkes did in the late 19th Century.

Bingo!

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 34):
The Commonwealth of Australia was never a convict colony, although all the states were.

I'm waiting for some angry South Australians and possibly a couple of Victorians to take issue with that comment. QFA380 - I do see your point, but federation completely reorganised things. The states weren't convict colonies because the states didn't exist prior to 1901. Some colonies housed convicts. That is the most accurate way of putting it.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 34):
Hate to say this but QFF is a rather politically correct person.

Hehehe, ouch!

I'm afraid I haven't quite been taken in by the "Today, Tonight" mafia just yet. I've never let language or vocabulary get in the way of the points I make. I manage to use non-discriminatory words and inclusive language when I engage in discussions with people. I am politically correct, and I'm damn proud of it.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
jafa39
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 37):
Some colonies housed convicts.

Nonetheless, I know a good few "Orstrayians" (I'm practicing my accent for my visit in April) who do refer to themselves as the "Decendants of convicts" and one recently who said (to me) "Well what do you expect..we're all convicts at heart".

Now I am not wanting to stir the pot here my friend but yours is one view, some Aussies have a differing one and no matter how much you protest, it isn't going to go away and neither is the Treaty of Waitangi, or Holocaust Denial, or 9/11 tin foil hat theories.

I fully understand your denial of certain aspects of the history of your adopted country, I do exactly the same and put a positive spin on NZ history and culture. (Even though at one point we hired Australian "Aborigine Hunters" to try to exterminate the Taranaki Iwi).

My dear old Mum is coming over soon and is bringing the family tree....it would appear somewhere in the dark past of the family Jafa.......a certain person was sent to Australia for forcibly removing someone possessions from their domicile....bugger, and I thought we were true blue Monarchists  Wink

I will say one thing though...if this Imam and his chums (who have a far better life than would have at "home") supported Australia with the fervour and passion that you do...well, the papers would have to write about sharks and crocodiles...



As for me, I will be forever apologising to South Islanders for being "A Pommie Jafa" and receiving the reply "A Pom we CAN forgive...but a Jafa????"


 Wink
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dvk
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting TNNH (Reply 4):
girls too hot,

guys too hot, too!
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
JeepBoy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 37):
I think that is an invention of your mind rather than a statement of fact. Ask 10 Americans what Australia is known for and I can promise you that those mentioning convicts would be in the extreme minority (if any mention them at all). The British like to think of us as convicts, despite the comment I made above.

I honestly think your belief that Australia is/should be pidgeon holed has more to do with your take on Australia's image and history rather than a sober study of international opinion.

Ask ten Americans what Australia is known for? Thats hardly *International Opinion*..

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 38):
Now I am not wanting to stir the pot here my friend but yours is one view, some Aussies have a differing one and no matter how much you protest, it isn't going to go away and neither is the Treaty of Waitangi, or Holocaust Denial, or 9/11 tin foil hat theories.

I love kiwi's. I haven't been to NZ for a little while, is One tree hill still around? Last time I was there the fucking thing was armour plated! LOL

jb *yay*
*yay*
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 37):
Ask 10 Americans what Australia is known for and I can promise you that those mentioning convicts would be in the extreme minority

that maybe so...but the fact that those 10 Americans you ask will probably only be able to mention Kangaroos, Koalas & Steve Irwin says even less about how we're seen overseas.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:37 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 38):
Nonetheless, I know a good few "Orstrayians" (I'm practicing my accent for my visit in April) who do refer to themselves as the "Decendants of convicts" and one recently who said (to me) "Well what do you expect..we're all convicts at heart".

Oh, I'm certainly not denying there are people like that at all. We've had the very opinion you mentioned in your post expressed in this thread by one of our Australian members. I simply contend that they're mistaken. The fact they use the present tense aside, not all of us are descended from the British, not all of us are even descended from immigrants from the 19th century. Most of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for 20th century immigration. That's a fact.

We're a democracy jafa, and we prize free speech as a virtue. There are all sorts of people in this country who hold all sorts of opinions. I don't want to convey for a second that everyone is "on message" with what I have to say. How boring that would be!

Oh - and as for "Orstrayians". If we are to meet up for that drink we'll be in the land of the twin set and pearls - where vowels are round and plumbs are firmly planted in the mouth. The actual site of the first permanent European colony on the modern Australian continent is now home to some of the most well established and exclusive pubs and clubs in the country. Remember - you're not going to Australia, you're going to Sydney.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 38):
Now I am not wanting to stir the pot here my friend but yours is one view, some Aussies have a differing one and no matter how much you protest, it isn't going to go away and neither is the Treaty of Waitangi, or Holocaust Denial, or 9/11 tin foil hat theories.

After re-reading that paragraph and realising you weren't calling me a Holocaust denier or a 9/11 tin foil hat theorist, I agree to a point.  Wink

I'm not denying anything, I'm just repeating facts. Nothing I've said in relation to the practice of transportation on the continent now known as Australia in the context of this post has been incorrect. What I am doing is trying to sober up some of my fellow patriots and discourage excessive and disproportionate reference to a foreign historical practice that I believe is misunderstood by and large by Australians and Britons.

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 40):
Ask ten Americans what Australia is known for? Thats hardly *International Opinion*..

Well it's hardly fact for you to contend that we will "always be known as the convict colony". By whom, you haven't said. You've employed a sweeping statement to make some vitriolic point. If calling me a purist differentiates me from that sort of behaviour - call me a purist.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 41):
that maybe so...but the fact that those 10 Americans you ask will probably only be able to mention Kangaroos, Koalas & Steve Irwin says even less about how we're seen overseas.

That's a whole other discussion, but it goes some way to making a point. We're known for different things to different people in different places.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
JeepBoy
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 41):
that maybe so...but the fact that those 10 Americans you ask will probably only be able to mention Kangaroos, Koalas & Steve Irwin says even less about how we're seen overseas.

Hit the nail on the head with that one, I was going to post it up before but I decided not to be crass! LOL

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
Well it's hardly fact for you to contend that we will "always be known as the convict colony". By whom, you haven't said. You've employed a sweeping statement to make some vitriolic point. If calling me a purist differentiates me from that sort of behaviour - call me a purist.

And you are a purist QFF! You stand up and beleive what our country should be and represent, I respcet that. Unfortunately if you step out of the intellectual boundaries of our inner cities you'll find the majority of the Australian populace severly lacking any modicum of *the real modern australia* and are more like breathless boorish consumer heathens who populate our urban freeways and malls. (ooh, like Americans)


jb *yay*
*yay*
 
QANTAS077
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:47 pm

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 43):
Hit the nail on the head with that one, I was going to post it up before but I decided not to be crass! LOL

had someone that was down here a few weeks back..highlight of the trip was seeing & patting a kangaroo & koala. nearly had a fit when i heard that, why bother coming when you can do that at your local zoo overseas.
 
jafa39
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 40):
One tree hill still around?

It is but not the tree......

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
you're not going to Australia, you're going to Sydney.

I'm glad you pointed that out...I may have to sell the becorked hat on trademe  Wink

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
I agree to a point.

Damn...I'm losing my touch.... Wink

Drink is still on BTW.
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NAV20
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:45 pm

Just as a matter of historical fact, penal transportation to colonies began around 1680. It was originally an 'humanitarian' measure, by the standards of the time, as it gave the judges an alternative to the mandatory death sentences which were laid down in those days for almost any crime.

Of course, Australia had not been formally 'discovered' at that time, so convicted felons were transported to the American colonies. The majority of them were 'articled' (effectively, enslaved) in Virginia and Maryland. Possibly the choice of that area as the seat of US Government reflects and perpetuates that early tradition of widespread criminality?  

After the USA won its independence America was no longer available for transportation, and Australia was seen as a suitable alternative for a relatively short period, until the practice was discontinued around 1840.

It is therefore possible, even probable, that a higher proportion of US citizens (of English or Irish descent) are the descendants of transported convicts than their Australian counterparts.

http://members.iinet.com.au/~perthdps/convicts/res-07.html

[Edited 2007-01-13 10:46:35]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
TSV
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 43):
Unfortunately if you step out of the intellectual boundaries of our inner cities you'll find the majority of the Australian populace severly lacking any modicum of *the real modern australia* and are more like breathless boorish consumer heathens who populate our urban freeways and malls. (ooh, like Americans)

Interesting.

Where are you drawing these "intellectual boundaries"? Outside of the Capitals? Or do they extend to some regional centres?

So what is "*the real modern australia*"? People who work in Offices, drive leased BMWs, and live in high rise units or the Farmers, Miners, and Bartenders we are all supposed to be or aspire to?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Banco
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 46):
It was originally an 'humanitarian' measure, by the standards of the time

Very true, that. We do need to be careful not to view transportation by the lights of the 21st century. Deepy unpleasant as it may have been, it certainly wasn't worse than what they could have expected at home.

Funnily enough, I've always thought the convict origins of Australia as something for the nation to be rather proud of. I mean, look what Australia became! Not bad for a "bunch of convicts" as some would have it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
baroque
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RE: The Mufti Of Sydney Ridicules Australians

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 38):
"Orstrayians"

We need to establish the correct spelling on this. Surely it is Orstrayans, similar to Americans and not to Canadians. I do not have a Canadia marked on my school atlas.

I may not beabel to speek proper stroyne, but I know how to spell it.

So all who have spelled Orstrayans with an "i" go wash your fice in a bison.

Quoting Banco (Reply 48):
Funnily enough, I've always thought the convict origins of Australia as something for the nation to be rather proud of. I mean, look what Australia became! Not bad for a "bunch of convicts" as some would have it.

Which is more or less where the "we are all from convict here" comes from, set the bar right down low and you can only work up from there. Especially at a time when we have two of our ex-Judges facing rather difficult questions from the DPP as we go to press. Each of them is worth a thread of their own.

And they are the ones we know about!  ashamed   bigthumbsup 

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