Have to admit, I am "shocked and awed" by the straight talk in this interview. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the banalities and platitudes you hear all the time in the "no-spin zones" of the world. And coming from a staunch conservative Republican, it's even more impressive. Here is the most stunning part of the whole thing:
Do you wish you’d voted differently in October of 2002, when Congress had a chance to authorize or not authorize the invasion?
Have you read that resolution?
I have.
It’s not quite the way it’s been framed by a lot of people, as a resolution to go to war. That’s not quite what the resolution said.
It said, “to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.”
In the event that all other options failed. So it’s not as simple as “I voted for the war.” That wasn’t the resolution.
But there was a decision whether to grant the president that authority or not.
Exactly right. And if you recall, the White House had announced that they didn’t need that authority from Congress.
Which they seem to say about a lot of things.
That’s right. Mr. [Alberto] Gonzales was the president’s counsel at that time, and he wrote a memo to the president saying, “You have all the powers that you need.” So I called Andy Card, who was then the chief of staff, and said, “Andy, I don’t think you have a shred of ground to stand on, but more to the point, why would a president seriously consider taking a nation to war without Congress being with him?” So a few of us—Joe Biden, Dick Lugar, and I—were invited into discussions with the White House.
It’s incredible that you had to ask for that.
It is incredible. That’s what I said to Andy Card. Said it to Powell, said it to Rice. Might have even said it to the president. And finally, begrudgingly, they sent over a resolution for Congress to approve. Well, it was astounding. It said they could go anywhere in the region.
It wasn’t specific to Iraq?
Oh no. It said the whole region! They could go into Greece or anywhere. I mean, is Central Asia in the region? I suppose! Sure as hell it was clear they meant the whole Middle East. It was anything they wanted. It was literally anything. No boundaries. No restrictions.
They expected Congress to let them start a war anywhere they wanted in the Middle East?
Yes. Yes. Wide open. We had to rewrite it. Joe Biden, Dick Lugar, and I stripped the language that the White House had set up, and put our language in it.
But that should also have triggered alarm bells about what they really wanted to do.
Well, it did. I’m not defending our votes; I’m just giving a little history of how this happened. You have to remember the context of when that resolution was passed. This was about a year after September 11. The country was still truly off balance. So the president comes out talking about “weapons of mass destruction” that this “madman dictator” Saddam Hussein has, and “our intelligence shows he’s got it,” and “he’s capable of weaponizing,” and so on.
And producing a National Intelligence Estimate that turned out to be doctored.
Oh yeah. All this stuff was doctored. Absolutely. But that’s what we were presented with. And I’m not dismissing our responsibility to look into the thing, because there were senators who said, “I don’t believe them.” But I was told by the president—we all were—that he would exhaust every diplomatic effort.
You were told that personally?
I remember specifically bringing it up with the president. I said, “This has to be like your father did it in 1991. We had every Middle East nation except one with us in 1991. The United Nations was with us.”
Did he give you that assurance, that he would do the same thing as his father?
Yep. He said, “That’s what we’re going to do.” But the more I look back on this, the more I think that the administration knew there was some real hard question whether he really had any WMD. In January of 2003, if you recall, the inspectors at the IAEA, who knew more about what Saddam had than anybody, said, “Give us two more months before you go to war, because we don’t think there’s anything in there.” They were the only ones in Iraq. We hadn’t been in there. We didn’t know what the hell was in there. And the president wouldn’t do it! So to answer your question—Do I regret that vote? Yes, I do regret that vote.
Read the entire amazing thing here:
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5326
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Turbo7x7 (Thread starter): It said, “to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.” In the event that all other options failed. So it’s not as simple as “I voted for the war.” That wasn’t the resolution. |
Bull**it Senator Hagel, you knew damm well what you where authorizing.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Turbo7x7 (Thread starter): Read the entire amazing thing here: |
The amazing thing is that you actually believe what he says.
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- NASCARAirforce
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RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
Question is again... why does a president get impeached for private affairs with an intern that no one got killed over, while another guy does all this and yet there isn't even talk of impeachment?
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): why does a president get impeached for private affairs with an intern that no one got killed over |
No he was impeached for perjury to a grand jury.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 1): Bull**it Senator Hagel, you knew damm well what you where authorizing. |
If you've taken the time to actually read the resolution carefully, there's nothing that explicitly says, the United States hereby declares war on Iraq. Pretty savvy I would say on the Senators' part. Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the Pres.
| Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 2): The amazing thing is that you actually believe what he says. |
Oh, and I'm sure you believe 100% of what Dubya has told you.
If he's lying, I'm certain the Bush Admin. will call him on it this week. Let's see what happens before you knee-jerk to pre-ordained conclusions.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 4): Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): why does a president get impeached for private affairs with an intern that no one got killed over No he was impeached for perjury to a grand jury. |
LOL, yep right-wing political values in action. All kinds of shenanigans to move the country into war. . . hey, you can't criticize, what's your problem, you're some of kind of liberal pansy?
On the other hand, lying about a blowjob? OH MY F***ING GOD, impeach the no good sunavab***h!! RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 6): If you've taken the time to actually read the resolution carefully, there's nothing that explicitly says, the United States hereby declares war on Iraq. Pretty savvy I would say on the Senators' part. Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the Pres. |
I didn't say it was explicit, but everybody KNEW what they where voting for.
To see him claim he didn't now is pathetic and shows the worst of side of politicians.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 4): No he was impeached for perjury to a grand jury. |
Which he was pushed into because of
| Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): private affairs with an intern that no one got killed over, |
or what did Ken Starr do? Sure it's a mistake that Clinton made himself, but you cannot take it out of context. With the war in Iraq, the entire context says "bullshit".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Aloges (Reply 9): Which he was pushed into because of |
He did it himself. It wasn't the lie but the venue he chose that did him in.
But that is really unrelated to this discussion on how Hagel suddenly has amnesia on what he was doing 4 years ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 8): To see him claim he didn't now is pathetic and shows the worst of side of politicians. |
He's not claiming "he didn't know." Read the interview. For real! He's just pointing out what should have been obvious, but most people don't seem to bother TO ACTUALLY READ THE RESOLUTION.
The interesting part (for me anyway) is that the Pres. made assurances to Hagel that he obviously didn't really follow on, not to mention that the Admin. didn't even seem interested in getting a "stamp of approval" from Congress to go to war! He just said what he had to say to get people on board.
Now if this is a lie as some people here claim, let's see what the Bush Admin. response is. Cheney or any of the other top Admin. officials can go on O'Reilly or Russert's Meet the Press or other Bush-friendly channels to respond to the Senator's comments.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 11): He's just pointing out what should have been obvious, but most people don't seem to bother TO ACTUALLY READ THE RESOLUTION |
What should have been obvious was the intention behind the resolution he voted for....which was to go to war with Iraq.
Saying not that it wasn't obvious is being disingenous at best.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 13): What should have been obvious was the intention behind the resolution he voted for....which was to go to war with Iraq. Saying not that it wasn't obvious is being disingenous at best. |
You know, normal people usually vote for what is actually written on the paper, not for what may or may not be implied.
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- FlyingTexan
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RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): yet there isn't even talk of impeachment? |
Yes there is. I heard it 2 weeks after 9/11 (by the tin foil hat crowd). Now that bad intelligence (over WMD) has come to light, there is even more. Should he be impeached? My emotions say hell yea. But realistically, the Congress should work on some other solution for this crisis. Say we impeach the guy and remove him from office --- we're stuck with someone even worse...
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
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- LOT767-300ER
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RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 7): On the other hand, lying about a blowjob? OH MY F***ING GOD, impeach the no good sunavab***h!! |
Just out of curiosity, what does it matter what you lie about? It is a crime to lie under oath. Thats why you take an oath. It doesnt state "yea you can lie about getting blown because thats just insignificant"
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- NASCARAirforce
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RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 15): Say we impeach the guy and remove him from office --- we're stuck with someone even worse... |
Well we kind of already are since Dick Cheney really runs the country anyway.
| Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 16): Just out of curiosity, what does it matter what you lie about? It is a crime to lie under oath. Thats why you take an oath. It doesnt state "yea you can lie about getting blown because thats just insignificant" |
The point is why was a private affair being brought before the grand jury in the first place? It is private. Immoral? yes. Illegal? no. He lied so he would save his butt from Hillary... she would be a scary one to piss off. I am not saying it is right, but he figured he probably could get away with it and that people would believe that Monica was some love crazed nutty intern. Then they had to waste millions of tax payer dollars to find out what those white stains were, and drag this thing on.
Yes lying to the Grand Jury is bad, but lying to the American public about weapons is worse and now 3,000+ of our own, plus God knows how many in Iraq, another 10,000 U.S. soldiers who will never be able to walk, throw a ball etc. because of permanent injuries... on top of that nearly $362 billion spent on the war (source costofwar.com) and quickly rising, money our children and grandchildren will be paying. Yes one should never lie under oath, but even more one should never lie to create an unnecessary war.
RE: Amazing Interview With Senator Hagel
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 1): Quoting Turbo7x7 (Thread starter):It said, “to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.” In the event that all other options failed. So it’s not as simple as “I voted for the war.” That wasn’t the resolution. Bull**it Senator Hagel, you knew damm well what you where authorizing. |
Hagel's version of reality isn't very convincing. | Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): why does a president get impeached for private affairs with an intern that no one got killed over, while another guy does all this and yet there isn't even talk of impeachment? |
Two words. Dick Cheney.
And realistically, why make the effort? All an impeachment will do is enrage the republican faithful, and isolate independents that are currently leaning towards the left.
Clinton's impeachment was politically motivated and incredibly stupid. Going after Bush would be the same.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography