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AsstChiefMark
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Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:48 am

If you're going f*ck up, you might as well do it right.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A man and woman died Sunday night after driving around traffic stopped at a railroad crossing and into the path of two moving trains, according to police.

Witnesses said the driver of the Chevrolet Cavalier ignored crossing arms and flashing lights at the rail crossing in the 6800 block of Trout River Boulevard about 8:45 p.m. The car was struck by a northbound Amtrak train, then a southbound CSX train.

"This particular person ... tried to go against the odds and beat the train across the track," Jacksonville Sheriff's Office spokesman Ken Jefferson said. "They didn't bank on two trains coming simultaneously across the track."

The Amtrak Silver Star had just left Jacksonville when it slammed into the car, which ended up wedged underneath the train and was carried several hundred feet.

Authorities said the trains sounded their whistles. Police said it appears the crossing arms were down and lights were flashing properly, but investigators were at the scene processing evidence.

Police identified the victims as Timothy Love and Angela Felix, both 19. Because the vehicle was demolished and in several pieces, police said there was not enough physical evidence to identify which of the victims was driving the car.

None of the 254 passengers on the Amtrak train was hurt, and no railroad employees were injured.


Source: http://www.news4jax.com/news/11226816/detail.html

The railroads are getting busier every day. Don't people realize it?

Mark

[Edited 2007-03-12 18:02:07]
 
MattRB
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:50 am

Paging Mr. Darwin, Mr. Charles Darwin. Please pick up the nearest white courtesy phone.
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:56 am

Another small cleansing for the gene pool...
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:58 am

Just like my signature says: You can't cure stupid. (more chlorine for the gene pool!!!)
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Thread starter):
Police identified the victims as Timothy Love and Angela Felix, both 19. Because the vehicle was demolished and in several pieces, police said there was not enough physical evidence to identify which of the victims was driving the car.

That must have been a disturbing sight...Jesus...

What does it take for people to realize several thousand tons of moving steel is not going to stop on a dime. An average freight train of 50 cars nearly takes a mile to stop at from a mere 30-35 mph. Passenger trains are going twice that speed on average.
 
Rj111
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:29 am

All rail crossings should have double barriers on both sides in my opinion. Though that would be very expensive to implement across the entire US.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
All rail crossings should have double barriers on both sides in my opinion

Why? Isn't the one barring the way sufficient?

The driver choose to break the law and paid for it. Pity there was someone else in the car.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
All rail crossings should have double barriers on both sides in my opinion. Though that would be very expensive to implement across the entire US.

That is a great idea. Then when that doesn't work we can mount a big neon sign in the road that pops up when a train is on its way. The sign will say "STOP STUPID"
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
All rail crossings should have double barriers on both sides in my opinion. Though that would be very expensive to implement across the entire US.

How much does it cost the railroad to clean up afterwards? Probably a lot less than it would to put up the barriers. Related anecdote: I was up in the Fraser River Canyon in BC a few years back, at a tourist spot called Hell's Gate. There's a cable car you can take from the Trans-Canada Highway down and across the river to an outpost on the other side. In addition to the road, there are two train lines through the canyon, one on either side. From the outpost, you can walk across a bridge back to the other side of the river where you started (though well below the highway). Walking up a small hill, you come to the tracks. Keep in mind that this is the main eastbound line for all trans-Canada rail shipment. If you stand facing the tracks, off to your left is a snowshed. You're not going to see a train coming that way. To the right, the train goes around a hill. You're not going to see it coming that way either. Behind you, the river is roaring so loudly that you aren't going to hear a train. Despite this, there's no fence or barrier or anything, just a little sign reading "WARNING: Canadian National Right of Way. Do Not Cross Tracks."

So either Canadians are smarter than Americans, or they don't care as much about protecting people from their own stupidity.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
Then when that doesn't work we can mount a big neon sign in the road that pops up when a train is on its way. The sign will say "STOP STUPID"

It's an old idea, actually. They're called Griswold crossing signals.

 
DrDeke
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7):
That is a great idea. Then when that doesn't work we can mount a big neon sign in the road that pops up when a train is on its way. The sign will say "STOP STUPID"

It's the same reason we need a "RETARD! RETARD! RETARD!" callout in automobiles. Only not in the sense of "slow down"...

 bouncy 

DrDeke
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 8):
How much does it cost the railroad to clean up afterwards?

The owner of the car and/or his insurance company gets billed for repairs, labor, and loss of revenue due to delays.
 
Queso
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 5):
All rail crossings should have double barriers on both sides in my opinion.

All people who are doing to drive cars across train tracks should be required to have common sense and minimal observations skills as well.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 10):
It's the same reason we need a "RETARD! RETARD! RETARD!" callout in automobiles. Only not in the sense of "slow down"...

Is this to yell at other vehicles, or as a warning to other drivers?
 
Scorpio
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 8):
How much does it cost the railroad to clean up afterwards? Probably a lot less than it would to put up the barriers.

I wouldn't be too sure of that: when something like this happens, the train(s) involved will have to stay 'on scene' until the police have done their work. As long as that hasn't happened, the line is closed. Especially on busy lines, this can cause serious delays to a lot of trains, and delays tend to be expensive.

Over here, level crossing are gradually being abolished where it is possible. In most places they are replaced by bridges or tunnels, sometimes they are simply abolished, when it involves smal country roads and there is an alternative nearby. The main reason for this is accidents like the one mentioned here.
 
1stfl94
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:09 am

 
MDorBust
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 14):
The main reason for this is accidents like the one mentioned here.

I hope we never go as far as to have to rebuild our infrastructure to preserve these idiots.

Most rail crossing, and apparently this one, are already adequately protected for any person with a functioning brain. You've got bars, bells, flashing lights, signs... Sorry, the reasonable protection level has already been accomplished. Can railroad crossings be redesigned to be safer? Yes, until some moran discovers another way around the safety features. Would it be worth the cost? Not in my opinion. If some moran wants to race trains that's fine with me, just don't be surprised when the train wins.
 
DrDeke
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 13):
Is this to yell at other vehicles, or as a warning to other drivers?

It's for the car to yell at its own driver for 80-90% of drivers. I guess it wouldn't hurt as a warning to other drivers either though  Smile.

DrDeke
 
ACDC8
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:28 am

You can add all the bells, whistles, lights, barricades and what ever you feel like. People will still be human and try to beat the train.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:31 am

In the USA, some of the barriers are designed so they can be bypassed in case the gates go down or stay down for a false reason to allow for emergency traffic to go through. Some crossings have low enough road traffic or train traffic thus limiting the need for signals or gates.
I always respected RR crossings as my parents, who grew up in a RR company town in western NY State, along with growing up with grade crossings on frequently used roads near me. Every day on my drive to work I pass over a fequently used grade crossing with gates (commuter pax and freight trains all day) adding to my conditioning to not bypass the gates. Far too many drivers do not grow up around grade crossings or learn to respect them. Then you get the idiots who just too distrcted to note that the gates are down or think they can 'beat the train'. Problem is that may not beat the train, and it may beat you...badly.
 
andessmf
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):

Same here for the light rail in the city.

We had a few years back (see this all the time) where a van did not stop correctly, and an arm broke off. Then another car missed the flashing lights and got hit. Guess they missed the lights.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 15):

I wish we had that show here. I always enjoy Top Gear clips. Always wear high visibility jackets!

RIP to the victims, but WHY do something so foolish!? Jeez!

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:26 am

Here's a video. Not much left of the car.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/player.aspx?aid=93378

I like the "checking for debris" remark. He forgot to include "and body parts."
 
57AZ
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
In the USA, some of the barriers are designed so they can be bypassed in case the gates go down or stay down for a false reason to allow for emergency traffic to go through.

A lot of protected crossings are now being redesigned to reduce the ability of a driver to go around the gates. Most designs involve a median or certerline barrier that extends 60 to 100 feet on either side of the crossing and lengthening the gates to completely block the flow of traffic on the appropriate side. For a driver to go around the gates, they would have to drive against the flow of traffic. Also remember that where crossing gates are provided, it is illegal to drive around them regardless of whether or not the signal is properly functioning.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:20 am

I have to cross a busy railway every day on the way to work. Guess what, I slow down and look even when the lights are not blinking just to make sure that there isn't a malfunction. As far as I am concerned if you get hit by a train it is your fault. Trains don't exactly sneak up on people.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
I have to cross a busy railway every day on the way to work. Guess what, I slow down and look even when the lights are not blinking just to make sure that there isn't a malfunction. As far as I am concerned if you get hit by a train it is your fault. Trains don't exactly sneak up on people.

You have what a lot people who killed by trains lack: Common sense.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Guess what, I slow down and look even when the lights are not blinking just to make sure that there isn't a malfunction.

Seeing those headlights coming and realizing the crossing signals and arms aren't working is terrifying. I've had that happen twice. Once was on a busy road. I pulled my truck sideways in the highway, turned on my red lights, and jumped out to stop traffic. Scared the living shit out of me because a couple cars didn't stop. The locomotive missed them by only a few feet.

Mark
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 26):
Seeing those headlights coming and realizing the crossing signals and arms aren't working is terrifying. I've had that happen twice. Once was on a busy road. I pulled my truck sideways in the highway, turned on my red lights, and jumped out to stop traffic. Scared the living shit out of me because a couple cars didn't stop. The locomotive missed them by only a few feet.



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 25):
You have what a lot people who killed by trains lack: Common sense.

Glad you were there, ACM.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:43 am

Amazing video in reply 15 but was that another loco following the speeding loco?? What was that?

Also, its amazing to see how they damaged the ballast for that video. No doubt some track work had to be performed after this was filmed, to get that straighway back in shape.
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 28):
Amazing video in reply 15 but was that another loco following the speeding loco?? What was that?

The locomotive that hit the car was not running. The other loco pushed it up to speed, then slowed down.
 
OV735
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:54 am

Condolences to the family and friends of the victims, but quite honestly, it doesn't take more than some basic knowledge of physics to realize what a train can do to a car. People should be able to understand this by the time they are 19 years old.

I hope the train crews are OK too, psychologically.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:00 am

Why was the loco pushed? Reasoning?

I know quite a few engineers who have hit pedestrians, counseling is the norm. In fact, I might be wrong, but I get the impression that MOST engineers will be in such an accident over teh course of their careers. Seems unavoidable.

Saw this on youtube. Amazing what people think of.
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
Why was the loco pushed? Reasoning?

No fuel and no driver in case of a derailment.
 
OV735
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
Saw this on youtube. Amazing what people think of.

Funny video. "Hey, get that thing out of the road!" would be my first comment too if I saw a locomotive rolling around the highway.
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 33):
if I saw a locomotive rolling around the highway.

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/m/MononStreetNrp.jpg.67622.jpg

http://67.15.20.45/images/1/100_2776-crop.jpg.76566.jpg

[Edited 2007-03-13 00:34:19]
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:46 am

About a dozen years ago I saw a news clip where the film crew rode on the train as it went through West Palm or somewhere down in South Florida. It was amazing, the cars were constantly going around the barriers to beat the train.

In my town, there is a spur off the main track that goes to a factory in town.... About once a week they drive 6 to 8 cars right through the center of town to deliver materials.... No crossing gates to be found... They just go real slow and keep on the horn... I've never seen an accident... But it looks like the pictures Mark posted in #34....
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 35):
In my town, there is a spur off the main track that goes to a factory in town.... About once a week they drive 6 to 8 cars right through the center of town to deliver materials...

Ocala or Clearwater?
 
ZRH
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:54 am

I think nobody mentioned yet: probably they did it purpose because they wanted to commit suicide together?
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 36):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 35):
In my town, there is a spur off the main track that goes to a factory in town.... About once a week they drive 6 to 8 cars right through the center of town to deliver materials...

Ocala or Clearwater?

You're good.... Ocala....
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
Posts: 10465
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Ocala....

http://67.15.20.45/images/f/FNOR.04.01.01.jpg.96102.jpg

http://67.15.20.45/images/i/IMG_1069_1_1.JPG.44569.jpg
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 39):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Ocala....

My office is to the left of the second picture about two blocks....
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
I know quite a few engineers who have hit pedestrians, counseling is the norm. In fact, I might be wrong, but I get the impression that MOST engineers will be in such an accident over teh course of their careers. Seems unavoidable.

That's what I've heard too. One of my dad's model railroading buddies worked for the railroad at one point, and his engineer friends said that it wasn't a matter of if you would hit someone, but when.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:01 pm

Great phtos Asstchiefmark! Won't see too much of that in NY these days, downstate that is.

Re: Suicide, I was in the cab of a Gp 38 once and watched a pedestrian play chicken and leap from the tracks only 15 feet or so before we careered past him. Sick nuts out there.
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:59 pm

Gotta love that street running! Back when I was living in Tennessee, I spent just under ten years working as a volunteer and paid trainman for the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga (nine and a half years as promoted conductor). In that time, we were involved in something like four grade crossing collisions and one pedestrian collision. I remember looking out the vestibule of the coach and seeing car after car attempt to beat a three car train through crossings at intersections. The dwarf signal would pull up from stop to approach, indicating that the traffic signals at the next crossing were preempted and wouldn't you know it, often as not an impatient driver would run the signal.

The one collision that I had to investigate (as it involved my train) was a nasty one. The train was running at 8 mph entering the crossing with bells and air horn sounding,. The auto clipped the front end of the GP-7 at 30+ mph and spun 180 degrees. The only occupants were the driver and her dog, both of whom survived. She ended up in the hospital and the car at the junk yard. As the car had approached from the fireman's side and the locomotive is a high hood unit, the engineer never saw the car coming. Every year the cabs of the GP-7s would get attention, including fresh paint here and there as needed. On each GP-7, there is an Emergency Brake Valve located on the fireman's side of the cab under the side window. Every year the valve handle gets a fresh coat of red paint. By the end of the year, the bare metal shows again. When you ride through downtown, you're holding on to that handle at every crossing hoping that you don't have to pull the air.

Now I volunteer for Old Pueblo Trolley in Tucson, Arizona as a line motorman and instructor. Anytime we are operating the streetcar out on the street, one hand remains on the brake valve and I am constantly alert to what the motorists around me are (or aren't) doing. First thing a student motorman learns is the only vehicles you don't really need to worry about are police cars, ambulances, fire engines and city buses. They are professional drivers, know that we are there and have a limited ability to manuever. All other vehicles are suspect and not to be trusted, especially vehicles that have damage evident. They don't realized that the streetcar cannot stop as quickly as an automobile or steer out of danger. So far I've only had one collision operating the streetcar. A college student with a brand new Toyota Scion made an illegal turn in front of me while attempting to back into a parking space. He ended up with a depreciated, formerly brand new car, a $150 police citation, the wrecker tab and a bill of about $400 for the damage to the streetcar. His first words were literally "You hit my car!" My reply (and yes, I really did say this to him) was "Yeah, I hit your car. What did you expect would happen when you made that illegal turn in front of me?" Even the U of A police officer that took the report was flat out frank and unsympathetic towards him. After getting the motorist's side of the story he said "You do realize that that streetcar weighs about fifteen tons and can't stop as fast as a car?"

All that said, I am always cautious around rail operations and never take safety for granted. However, I have no problem calling things as I see them and have no sympathy for morons like those mentioned above. As for the Toyota, I love it! The one car that I've hit and it had to be a car literally fresh off the lot (he still had the dealer temp tags)!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:15 am

How do the crossings work? Is there a button in the cab of the train that activates the crossings? Some times you will see a train maneuvering by a crossing but the crossing won't be activated. Then when the engineer decides to cross the crossing will activate.
 
AsstChiefMark
Topic Author
Posts: 10465
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 44):
How do the crossings work?

In a nutshell, think of the rails as wires. When a train crosses a certain spot when approaching a crossing, the wheels and axles of the train complete a circuit that activate the railroad crossing signals.

It's actually much more complicated than that, but I thought I'd keep it simple.  Big grin

Mark
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3232
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 1):
Paging Mr. Darwin, Mr. Charles Darwin

Yes, at 19 these two morons probably had yet to procreate and pass on the stupid gene.

Slowly yet surely, technology, power tools and extreme sports are cleaning up the gene pool.
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:28 pm

RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 1):
Paging Mr. Darwin, Mr. Charles Darwin. Please pick up the nearest white courtesy phone.

*Mr Darwin picks up yellow phone*

Announcer: No, the WHITE courtesy phone!
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8064
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:29 am

Here is a near miss in So Cal, very close.





Lee
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
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RE: Stupid Is As Stupid Does: Trains Vs. Car

Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 48):
Here is a near miss in So Cal, very close.

Thanks for the video. Reminds me of billboards in my area that read "Bad crossings kill good drivers" I have been tempted to by ad space next to those billboards that would read " No, idiot drivers kill themselves"

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Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos