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aaflt1871
Topic Author
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Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:14 pm

"The attack prompted officials to step up security in the south, where a Muslim insurgency has claimed more than 2,000 lives since 2004."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17615457/



I guess I should read the news more often. I was unaware it was getting so bad in Thailand. Hopefully death will come to those involved (spare me if you do not believe in my views for an eye for an eye punishment, It is what I believe in, if you do not, that is fine) with the ambush that resulted in taking the lives of 8 Buddhists including (2) 16 year old females.
Where did everybody go?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting Aaflt1871 (Thread starter):
read the news more often

That rebellion of the Malay minority in southern Thailand has gone on for years, but becomes increasingly brutal. Such massacres will hardly improve their position inside Thailand.
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:59 pm

This is just awful!
F--king Awful!

What shame that this is happening in such a beautiful country.
Thailand is a Buddhist country and they don't bother anybody. What is wrong with these Muslim separatist in southern Thailand?
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
What is wrong with these Muslim separatist in southern Thailand?

It is an area which is ethnically (Malays instead of Thais) linked to the northern states of Malaya (Malaysia) and basically would like to join Malaysia. But such things do NOT justify massacring innocent people and damaging Thai tourism.
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
It is an area which is ethnically (Malays instead of Thais) linked to the northern states of Malaya (Malaysia) and basically would like to join Malaysia.

Does Malaysia want them?
Bring back the Concorde
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Aaflt1871 (Thread starter):
Muslim insurgency has claimed more than 2,000 lives since 2004."

Wait a minute I thought the Global War on Terror was all made up by George W. Bush?

Something isn't right here. They must be Buddhist extremists or something.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
It is an area which is ethnically (Malays instead of Thais) linked to the northern states of Malaya (Malaysia) and basically would like to join Malaysia.
--
Does Malaysia want them?

-
YES, and the matter in the past was quite near a kind of border-dispute, but kept under the carpet in order not to damage the tourism business, which has priority on both sides.
-

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 5):
the Global War on Terror was all made up by George W. Bush?

the mess above has not much to do with either "global terror" or "global war", it is just a local mess
-
here some info about it :
--------------------------------------------------------------
The book tells the story of the political maneuvering by Bangkok and London for possession of key semi-independent states on the Malay Peninsula. The book starts with the Anglo-Siamese Secret Convention of 1897, with which the British hoped to neutralize possible influences of other colonial powers, and it treats the Siamese drive to exclude foreign influences from the Siamese territories adjoining the British sphere of influence. The ill-fated attempt to set up a system of advisors to the Sultans is discussed. The significance of the ventures such as the Kra Isthmus canal and a Malay Peninsula railway project is elucidated using confidential British Foreign Office papers and contemporary newspaper sources. In the end, Siam would have to let go and the British acquired some of the Malay provinces on the Peninsula establishing the present borders of southern Siam and Malaysia.
--
(Bangkok 1997) ISBN 974-8496-98-8.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In contrast with the rest of Thailand, the south is predominantly Islamic, and most of the people living there have more in common with Malays, who live over the border, than with Buddhist Thais.
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6448615.stm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETH.jpg" width="484" height="783" border=0>
[img]http://www.ethnologue.com/maps/THAS_ETH.jpg
this shows the minority-region of Southeast-Thailand in question, according to a Thai source, but the Malay area in Thailand goes up to areas near Phuket
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Malay language, also known locally as bahasa Melayu, is an Austronesian language spoken by the Malay people who reside in the Malay Peninsula, southern Thailand, the Philippines, Singapore, central eastern Sumatra, the Riau islands, and parts of the coast of Borneo.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_language
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):

Oh so that was just a local matter when Muslim extremists attacked the US on September 11th.

See the key words are Muslim Extremists.

I don't see the world having a problem with Christian Terrorism, or Jewish Terrorism, or Buddhist Terrorism or any other religion even if they have fundamentalist sects in them.

So I think it is perfectly legitimate to connect the attacks coming from the extremists that have hijacked a particular religion together.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
Oh so that was just a local matter when Muslim extremists attacked the US on September 11th.

THAT was NOT a "local matter", but because elQaeda wanted to get their agenda out into the world.
-

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
Christian Terrorism

there for decades WAS a problem with the IRA and that was CATHOLIC terrorism, and the counter-terror of the extremist Protestant was PROTESTANT terrorism. In Nepal it was for decades COMMUNIST terrorism. In Latin America it is ....whatever..... terrorism. And the Basques are NOT Muslims, neither were the Baader-Meinhof terrorists in Germany or the left and right wing extremists in Italy .
-

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
the extremists that have hijacked a particular religion

rubbish, no extremists have "hijacked" a particular religion. What those extremists however DID hijack is some media headlines.
-

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
it is perfectly legitimate to connect the attacks

whether legitimate or not is a minor problem, the major danger may be that extremists may hijack that secessionist movement just as they did in the Southern Philippines. THIS fear is a bit more than legitimate !
-
But back to basics, the matter in question is the Malay minority in Southern Thailand
-
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:38 am

ME AVN FAN:
Thanks for the links.
I have a lady friend from Laos that talks about this a lot. I am sorry but I have zero symapthy for the Malay minority in the south tip of Thailand. The fact that they resort to these violent measures shows the world that they are not worthy of negotiating with. Perhaps they need to pack there bags and move to Afganistan or the newly liberated Iraq where they can freely kill in the name of there religion.
I have a hard time believing that the government in Malaysia would support killing innocent school children. They should not want these people.
Bring back the Concorde
 
qr332
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
What shame that this is happening in such a beautiful country.
Thailand is a Buddhist country and they don't bother anybody. What is wrong with these Muslim separatist in southern Thailand?

Believe it or not, Muslims around the world aren't trained to kill for fun. Each conflict in the world has its own background, and what you read in one article won't reveal everything that came before the issue mentioned. While I don't know much about this conflict, I won't make judgments that fast because I know there is usually much more to things than what is at face value.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
Oh so that was just a local matter when Muslim extremists attacked the US on September 11th.

Don't twist his words, he was talking about this particular incident.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
I don't see the world having a problem with Christian Terrorism, or Jewish Terrorism, or Buddhist Terrorism or any other religion even if they have fundamentalist sects in them.

Open up your eyes a bit more then. Ask the Iraqis, and they'll tell you Christian Terrorism exists (assuming the US is a Christian nation). And before you all jump up about the Iraqi insurgency being the cause, do I need to remind you who invaded Iraq in the first place, killed a large amount of civilians themselves, and opened up this whole mess which allowed the insurgency to surface? Ask the Palestinians and they'll tell you all about Jewish terrorism, supported by Christian-majority nations. Spare me, UALPHLCS. Bombing civilians from thousands of feet in the air is no better than a suicide bomber killing a bunch of civilians in a cafe.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
So I think it is perfectly legitimate to connect the attacks coming from the extremists that have hijacked a particular religion together.

No, it is not. There are 1.3 billion Muslims, and obviously there will be more than one conflict involving Muslims. Each and every one is different, from Palestine to Iraq to Thailand to wherever. Thats like saying you can connect all conflicts involving Christians, whites or whatever.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
I have a lady friend from Laos that talks about this a lot. I am sorry but I have zero symapthy for the Malay minority in the south tip of Thailand. The fact that they resort to these violent measures shows the world that they are not worthy of negotiating with. Perhaps they need to pack there bags and move to Afganistan or the newly liberated Iraq where they can freely kill in the name of there religion.

Except that their not killing in the name of their religion, their killing for their independence... they just happened to be Muslim. As a black man, I would have thought you would understand the whole don't paint an entire race/religion with one brush thing Superfly. Guess I thought wrong.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
Except that their not killing in the name of their religion, their killing for their independence.

Gee what a coincidence?  scratchchin 

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
As a black man, I would have thought you would understand the whole don't paint an entire race/religion with one brush thing Superfly. Guess I thought wrong.

Bull  redflag 
Here is a quote from the Quran, not from me;

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (Quran 4:78)
I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb. Q. 8:12

And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; (Q. 38:44)


...and you expect me to look at this objectively?  confused 

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
While I don't know much about this conflict, I won't make judgments that fast because I know there is usually much more to things than what is at face value.

School kids were on there way to school and killed on a school bus. What else do you need to know?
Bring back the Concorde
 
qr332
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Gee what a coincidence? scratchchin

What part of it is a coincidence exactly? They happen to be Muslim, but their religion has nothing to do with the reason their fighting.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Bull redflag

Why? There are many more problems in predominantly black countries in Africa than there ever will be in the Middle East - child soldiers, famine, civil war, constant fighting, very high crime rates. Even in the US, there is a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. Based on all of this, would it be fair for me to assume all blacks are criminal?

See what i'm getting at, Superfly? Because I can make those assumptions easily based on those facts, but I know it would be wrong because it is a sweeping generalization. You, on the other hand, have no problem whatsoever making the generalization. Its the same as assuming all Americans are idiots, all the French stink, etc.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (Quran 4:78)
I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb. Q. 8:12

And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; (Q. 38:44)

...and you expect me to look at this objectively? confused

I can take ANYTHING out of context and make it seem like it means what I want it to. When you read those quotes directly from the Quran in context with the entire Surra, then you can judge it. A verse taken out of the Quran can seem to mean one thing when it is read by itself, but surrahs (or chapters) can have hundreds of verses.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
School kids were on there way to school and killed on a school bus. What else do you need to know?

Thats not what I meant. What I meant was that these people are obviously not killing for the sake of it, something must have triggered this - and you need to know the context in order to judge the situation. What I said was a response to your two sweeping stereotypes - Buddhist = doesn't bother anybody, Muslim = bothers everybody.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 12):
Why? There are many more problems in predominantly black countries in Africa than there ever will be in the Middle East - child soldiers, famine, civil war, constant fighting, very high crime rates. Even in the US, there is a higher proportion of black criminals than white criminals. Based on all of this, would it be fair for me to assume all blacks are criminal?

See what i'm getting at, Superfly?

Nice try but it's not the same. I am talking about a religion/set of beliefs, not a race or nationality. Anybody can be a Muslim. It's a religious choice, not a race in which you are born. Yes I know many Americans aren't aware of that.

I hate to stereotype but come on, many of the most irrational acts against humanity follow Islam. To be honest, I don't like ANY strict religious groups be it Christian, Judahism or Islam. Religion is destroying advancement of mandkind.
Please tell us just how brutal the Thai government is to the Malays that would justify killing innocent school children?

[Edited 2007-03-21 22:00:59]
Bring back the Concorde
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 12):
What I said was a response to your two sweeping stereotypes - Buddhist = doesn't bother anybody, Muslim = bothers everybody.

Pretty accurate sterotype isn't it???
 
fridgmus
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Bull
Here is a quote from the Quran, not from me;

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (Quran 4:78)
I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb. Q. 8:12

And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; (Q. 38:44)

Yup, it's definitely a religion of peace and love.....
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
The fact that they resort to these violent measures shows the world that they are not worthy of negotiating with. Perhaps they need to pack there bags and move to Afganistan or the newly liberated Iraq where they can freely kill in the name of there religion.

I split your statement, as it is THREE topics. That some of them get so violent does NOT prove anything. It most of all does NOT give a hint about the population in general. I am sure that most locals are NOT in favour of violence, out of common sense and NOT out of support for the Kingdom of Thailand.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
have a hard time believing that the government in Malaysia would support killing innocent school children.

the Government in Malaysia does NOT and would NOT support killing innocents and harsh violence. BUT the government in Malaysia in principle would WANT to take over the Malay areas now in Southern Thailand by peaceful democratic means.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
They should not want these people.

The should would will WANT "these people" if you mean THE people there. How they were to deal with the culprits of such "actions" is a different matter.
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
quote from the Quran

well, here some other quotes :
2:224 AND DO NOT allow your oaths in the name of God to become an obstacle to virtue and God-consciousness and the promotion of peace between men: [212] for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
2:224 AND DO NOT allow your oaths in the name of God to become an obstacle to virtue and God-consciousness and the promotion of peace between men: [212] for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
14:23 But those who shall have attained to faith and done righteous deeds will be brought into gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide by their Sustainer's leave, and will be welcomed with the greeting, "peace!" [35]
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
their killing for their independence.
Gee what a coincidence? scratchchin

-
here a link to a very nice slaughter, in the Battle of Morgarten which was a major thing in the history of Switzerland. The Imperial troops were lured into that area and then bombarded with whatever at hand from above and most of them died. Such things in wars of independence happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
School kids were on there way to school and killed on a school bus. What else do you need to know?

What do we need to know ? everything ! What particular organisation did it ? Who gave that command ? What was the argument and the purpose and the actual motive to do it ?
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
many of the most irrational acts against humanity follow Islam. To be honest, I don't like ANY strict religious groups be it Christian, Judahism or Islam.

What is the problem now and in the past with the three Mosaic religions ? the problem is that all three religions base their creed onto being universally right, in a far more excessive way than Buddhism and Hinduism. What makes Christiandom and Islam more aggressive than Judaism is the command given to convince others to join. And the methods often employed by reps of both are absolutely beyond acceptability.
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Please tell us just how brutal the Thai government is to the Malays that would justify killing innocent school children?

part A) "how brutal the Thai government is" ? Thailand or rather Siam in those times has conquered southern areas and upnorthern areas by force. And such things in history tended to be brutal by modern standards

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Please tell us just how brutal the Thai government is to the Malays that would justify killing innocent school children?

part B) "that would justify killing innocent school children? " in my view NOTHING can JUSTIFY such things, and nothing can excuse the culprits.
-

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 15):
definitely a religion of peace and love.....

here some nice quotes :
Genesis 22:17
I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,
Leviticus 26:8
Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.
--- what a nice alternative ? Such were clearly PRE AmnestyInternational days !
-
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
the government in Malaysia in principle would WANT to take over the Malay areas now in Southern Thailand by peaceful democratic means.

So much for that. Seems like any peaceful and democratic solutions have been squandered. Over 2000 people have been killed over this.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
What makes Christiandom and Islam more aggressive than Judaism is the command given to convince others to join. And the methods often employed by reps of both are absolutely beyond acceptability.

 checkmark 

Perhaps it's time to do away with religion.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
What do we need to know ? everything ! What particular organisation did it ? Who gave that command ? What was the argument and the purpose and the actual motive to do it ?

I agree. I was concerned about QR332's comment "there is usually much more to things than what is at face value."
I interpreted that as him wanting to hear a reasoning for the killings. I hope I was incorrect in my interpretations of that comment.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
the government in Malaysia in principle would WANT to take over the Malay areas now in Southern Thailand by peaceful democratic means.
--
So much for that. Seems like any peaceful and democratic solutions have been squandered. Over 2000 people have been killed over this.

-
The problem is quite simple. Would the Kingdom of Thailand allow any of its ethnic minorities either to get independent or to join whatever neighbour, the country would break up into various pieces
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
"there is usually much more to things than what is at face value."

his hint was towards the fact that almost any such mess on the African and the Asian continent tends to have some serious background. Such atrocities are rather like tips of icebergs and very often are minor incidents in comparison what has been around in history. I until not too long ago did not care about this South-of-Thailand problem, but since I realized a few years ago that the mess there might endanger the Thai tourist industry and thereby important regional air-links who often depend on touristic traffic, I started to realize the actual problem. Fact is that most reports come from the Thai security forces who of course are not exactly "neutral observers". And of course tend to talk about "a Muslim insurgency" or "radical Muslims", carefully avoiding the term "Malay" which in reality is the dominant factor.
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
a reasoning for the killings

due to lack of more information, no "reasoning" or consideration is possible at this time
-
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Nice try but it's not the same. I am talking about a religion/set of beliefs, not a race or nationality. Anybody can be a Muslim. It's a religious choice, not a race in which you are born. Yes I know many Americans aren't aware of that.

No, it is the same, because it is still an example of unfair stereotyping. A person's religion is a set of morals and beliefs, not something that shapes the person's character - just like with race, each person is different. And the blacks in America do have their own distinctive culture, so you could say that the fault is in the culture of blacks just like you claim that our religion is at our fault - but at the end of the day its just not true.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
I hate to stereotype but come on, many of the most irrational acts against humanity follow Islam.

Superfly, yes Islam is going through dark times, but that comment itself is irrational. If you look at Islam since its creation and what went on from Muslims compared to Westerners, you would see just how irrational it is. Just to name many examples of irrational acts against humanity, all from the West:
-Atomic Bombs & their use
-The Nazis during WW2 & the holocaust
-The Soviets & the GULAGS, and Stalin being the biggest murderer the world has ever seen. And he was secular, so their goes your religion theory.
-Iraq war, and the mess made
-Colonization, which btw is the source of many of the problems involving Muslims today

Where does Islam fit into all of these? In the scope of history, Islam is less violent than the West.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
To be honest, I don't like ANY strict religious groups be it Christian, Judahism or Islam. Religion is destroying advancement of mandkind.

Then how do you explain all the advancements in science and mathematics advocated by Islam during its golden age? Unlike Christianity, Islam is much more supportive of science.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Please tell us just how brutal the Thai government is to the Malays that would justify killing innocent school children?

Again, it is a horrible even and I completely disagree with it - I just said theres probably more to the conflict as a whole.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 14):
Pretty accurate sterotype isn't it???

About as accurate as all Eastern European women are prostitutes.

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 15):
Yup, it's definitely a religion of peace and love.....

And your country is spreading its "freedom", peace and love in Iraq right now, right?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I agree. I was concerned about QR332's comment "there is usually much more to things than what is at face value."
I interpreted that as him wanting to hear a reasoning for the killings. I hope I was incorrect in my interpretations of that comment.

You were very incorrect. I wanted a further understanding of the roots of the conflict.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
Would the Kingdom of Thailand allow any of its ethnic minorities either to get independent or to join whatever neighbour, the country would break up into various pieces

That would not be a good thing.  no 

Why would anyone want Thailand to break up into various pieces?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
his hint was towards the fact that almost any such mess on the African and the Asian continent tends to have some serious background. Such atrocities are rather like tips of icebergs and very often are minor incidents in comparison what has been around in history. I until not too long ago did not care about this South-of-Thailand problem, but since I realized a few years ago that the mess there might endanger the Thai tourist industry and thereby important regional air-links who often depend on touristic traffic, I started to realize the actual problem. Fact is that most reports come from the Thai security forces who of course are not exactly "neutral observers". And of course tend to talk about "a Muslim insurgency" or "radical Muslims", carefully avoiding the term "Malay" which in reality is the dominant factor.

I hear what you are saying. This issue is rather new to me also but so far, I tend to side with Thailand on this issue. How would this area be if under Malay control?
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Why would anyone want Thailand to break up into various pieces?

Because there are many minorities with not too much love for their country. I some 3 years ago got a lengthy lecture by a North-Thai who explained to me why the whole north is about 3 or 4 different things not really related to Thailand. So that the fears of the Thai leadership are NOT without reasons.
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
How would this area be if under Malay control?

if "Malay control" means to join Malaysia as another federal state, it would be better off, as Malaysia economically is better off than Thailand. If it would mean independence under whatever identity , it is impossible to say. They might embark into tourism and establish an offshore tax-heaven !
-
 
Superfly
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RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
I some 3 years ago got a lengthy lecture by a North-Thai who explained to me why the whole north is about 3 or 4 different things not really related to Thailand.

I hear it all the time from my friend from Laos.
Thing is, the surrounding countries to the north, east, west are much worse off than Thailand. These groups aren't Muslim like in the south. So Thai security forces can't accuse these groups as "Muslim insurgency" or "radical Muslims",
From what I understand, many were taken from the north country to build up Bangkok. Is that true?

Quoting QR332 (Reply 19):
Superfly, yes Islam is going through dark times, but that comment itself is irrational. If you look at Islam since its creation and what went on from Muslims compared to Westerners, you would see just how irrational it is. Just to name many examples of irrational acts against humanity, all from the West:
-Atomic Bombs & their use
-The Nazis during WW2 & the holocaust
-The Soviets & the GULAGS, and Stalin being the biggest murderer the world has ever seen. And he was secular, so their goes your religion theory.
-Iraq war, and the mess made
-Colonization, which btw is the source of many of the problems involving Muslims today

I agree with those comment, however I never stated that secularsim would be the final end all to world conflicts.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 19):
Then how do you explain all the advancements in science and mathematics advocated by Islam during its golden age? Unlike Christianity, Islam is much more supportive of science.

 checkmark 
Oh I totally agree with you here. The fundamentalist Christians have there heads up there arse on this issue.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 19):
And your country is spreading its "freedom", peace and love in Iraq right now, right?

Bush's war in Iraq is awful and I oppose the war in Iraq and I never voted for that turd (Bush).


I know that there are plenty of Muslims that are great and wonderful people. By the way, I do sympathize with the Palestinians and many of there disputes with Israel/USA/UK. I know lots of Palistinians here is San Francisco and are honest hard working people.

Yes Islam did have it's golden era years ago but what I am talking about is today. Is there any effort to change Islam and do away with the fundamentalist and rid the Quran of the above scriptures that calls for the death of non-believers?
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
many were taken from the north country to build up Bangkok. Is that true?

yes, and those Northern-Thais claim under slaves-like conditions, which may be exaggerated but possibly not so wrong
-

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Is there any effort to change Islam and do away with the fundamentalist and rid the Quran of the above scriptures that calls for the death of non-believers?

-
to do away with the fundamentalist ? I mean "fundamentalists" are NOT a sect or a religious group, but basically just ultra-conservative restrictive and somewhat extreme people. Islam as such does not need to be changed. And such a bit harsh texts as quoted above out of Quran and Bible are hardly the reason for political problems. But a literal interpretation of religious texts of 2 millenia ago are causing problems. In reality however, MOST of the political problems in the countries of Africa and Asia have nothing to do with religion even if religion serves as "ideological background" but with regional and local problems. Such regional and local affairs can get "global" if more or less rich people with radical notions start spreading their activities around the globe.
-
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
yes, and those Northern-Thais claim under slaves-like conditions, which may be exaggerated but possibly not so wrong

Now has Thailand made any concessions to the northern-Thais? Have there been any formal apologies, acknowledgment, reparations or representation in government?
I wish there were some native-Thais here on the boards to give some insight.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
Islam as such does not need to be changed.

Are you kidding?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
But a literal interpretation of religious texts of 2 millenia ago are causing problems.

Thus a change is needed.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
MOST of the political problems in the countries of Africa and Asia have nothing to do with religion even if religion

Well aware of that. Religion is often used as a divisive weapon.
Africa's golden age was years ago and it's a shame that it will be a long time before situations improve. Too bad we won't be alive to see it.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 25):
But a literal interpretation of religious texts of 2 millenia ago are causing problems.
----
Thus a change is needed.

-
NO. Most people do NOT interprete these texts literally. And the national Imams in charge by majority do NOT interprete these texts literally either. To talk about exceptions, Iran WILL change and Saudi Arabia OUGHT to change. Again a problem which to at least 50% in both cases is political.
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qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Muslim Extremists Suspected In Thai Killings

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
I agree with those comment, however I never stated that secularsim would be the final end all to world conflicts.

The point I was trying to make is that it is in our nature as humans to fight - if there was no religion, it would be over ideologies, or over anything. While I know a lot of conflicts are going one involving Muslim, the vast majority of them are politically motivated and religion is used as a tool to win the support of the masses.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Yes Islam did have it's golden era years ago but what I am talking about is today. Is there any effort to change Islam and do away with the fundamentalist and rid the Quran of the above scriptures that calls for the death of non-believers?

I am talking about today too, I used the Islamic golden age to show an example of how Islam, if practiced properly, is a great religion. Today, we definitely have a problem, and I repeat what I said before - the scriptures are taken out of context. The Quran itself cannot be and has never been changed, it is one of the fundamental "rules" of Islam. The problems don't lie with the scriptures themselves, they lie with people interpreting them to fit their own needs and then proceeding to spread their interpretations. Just like the examples you have given me show one thing when taken out of context, extremists do the same in order to raise support.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
Pretty accurate.

Thats it. I'm so coming to PRG this summer  Wink

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
I still would rather be labeled as prostitute than a terrorist. Nice try anyway.

Whatever floats your boat.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 23):
Right next to communism and nazism. The three evils of modern times: Islam, Communism, Nazism.

Here I was thinking you might have some rationality in you... but obviously I was wrong. I can't believe you just put Islam on the same level as Communism and Nazism... please share with us the criteria you used to reach this conclusion.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Thus a change is needed.

Nope. Again, the problem is with the interpretations... the fundamental aspects of the religion have nothing wrong with them, it is the radical interpretations that are a big problem. Problem is your government keeps funding the government which keeps them going (i.e. Saudi Arabia).
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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