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airxliban
Topic Author
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Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:41 am

Am interested in soliciting the board's opinion on a number of social issues, particularly the following:

1. Abortion
2. Gay marriage
3. Capital punishment
4. Gay adoption

I think we recently had a discussion of the capital punishment one but otherwise don't think this thread is a duplicate.

Anyway just to briefly offer my opinion on the above subjects as a starting point for conversation or argument...

Abortion:

Don't know that I can classify myself as pro-life or pro-choice. I certainly have a problem with aborting a baby 1 week before due, but don't have an issue with doing it just after conception. I have a hard time believing that a ball of cells has human form - but clearly there is some point between RU486 and 9 months that the baby does acquire human form. I don't think its possible to know when that is, so I think a practical solution might be to have first trimester abortion up to the discretion of the mother, second trimester abortion on the judgment of the doctor and third trimester abortion only if the life of the mother is endangered. Not perfect though...but that is my current stream of thought.

Gay marriage:

A touchy subject especially on these boards. In all but a few places in the world homosexuals are denied rights that they are most certainly due. My opinion is that homosexual marriages should exist but not in those terms as one could argue that there are some areas of the law where there is a need for differentiation on the type of union entered. Have had this argument on these forums before so won't embellish on it now.

Capital Punishment:

Completely against it...though I can't help but feel like a bit of a hypocrite as if someone (God forbid) did anything to my family a part of me would search for the nearest rifle.

Gay adoption:

I have yet to solidify a viewpoint on this issue yet....too many considerations on each side of the argument.

---

What say you ??
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
tz757300
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
What say you ??

I say you have just pre-meditated this thread to be a bash-each-other-fest and opened up not a cup of worms, but a warehouse full of them.

Abortion: Pro-Choice

Gay Marriage: For it

Capitol Punishment: Eye for an eye; life for a life

Gay Adoption: Why not, gay people physically can't have babies with each other the natural way
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Up to the woman, and to a certain extent the man as well but Im uncertain as to how to make that work. I certainly think the man should have some say in his offsprings wellfare, the woman should not be able to arbitrarily take a child away.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Leave marriage up to the church, but a civil partnership thats equal in every respect should be available to everyone.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

I disagree with this one, we are better than the person we are judging and therefor must act accordingly. The judicial system and penal system should be reformative as well as punishing.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

If they can be good parents, and theres a child needing love, then Im not against it.
 
T773ER
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:53 am

1. Abortion: Wrong to kill a child. liberals scream about Capital punishment, but yet are okay with killing millions of defenseless children for any reason at all.

2. Gay marriage: Marriage is a union between a man and woman, not a male & male or female & female. Completely disagree with homosexual marriages.

3. Capital punishment: I have no sympathy for the kinds of people that are even considered for the death penalty. If anything, capital punishment should be expanded.

4. Gay adoption: A child needs to have a mother and father, you are doing the child harm by not supplying them with this need.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Pro-Choice with limitations.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Very strongly for.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

Against.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

For.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:57 am

Abortion: Let the woman decide

Gay marriage: It exists already and all for it.

Captiol Punishment: Fire up Old Sparky. Fry 'em.

Gay adoption: All for it. Too many kids going without as it is.

DUI/DWI/Drink driving: Not harsh enough. Needs to be more strict.

Child predators: See third one down.

Rape: Automatic castration, for starters.

Immigration: Unsure, no opinion as of yet, immigrant myself. Need more time.
You can't cure stupid
 
ajd1992
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):

1. Abortion
2. Gay marriage
3. Capital punishment
4. Gay adoption

Abortion
It's up to the couple, I'm all for them doing what they think is best. But, I agree with Richard in the woman shouldn't be able to just basically murder somebody's son or daughter without their knowledge.


Gay Marriage
Again, all for it. What does gender matter when 2 people love eachother?


Capital Punishment
Mix of both really. If you've killed somebody, you deserve the noose. Then again, if they find out it wasn't you, there's no going back.


Gay Adoption
Not sure. I wouldn't wanna be the kid that gets shit all the time for having 2 dads, but then again, why not?
 
NWA742
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:04 am

1. Abortion

It really depends - if the mother's life is put in danger, absolutely. If the abortion stems from unresponsible sexual behavior, no - the parents should have to pay for it and raise the child. If they can't, they will eventually reimburse the state as they grow older and make more money.

I honestly don't see a solution either way for abortion. People simply aren't responsible for their actions anymore, and that goes for sex as well. Sad way that society has turned.

2. Gay marriage

I honestly don't care anymore.

3. Capital punishment

Definitely for - but as long as the guilty are proven so beyond reasonable doubt, and I also think DNA testing should be standard proof of guilt if there are no witnesses, if it's not already.

I also think the appeals process needs to be widely shortened, the death penalty should not cost more than life in prison. It should be a fraction of the cost, simple as that.

4. Gay adoption

Absolutely not - having a child raised under gay parents is raising them under extremely abnormal parenting conditions. Children need a father's touch and a mother's touch, period. That's why single parent homes often raise problematic children, and I could see it happening with gay parent homes as well. Imagine if you were a straight kid raised under two gay men, neither of which were your biological father. I could see endless problems and arguments arising over differences, ways of life, and that would be very harmful to the child's development.

The failure of the family is an extreme problem, and gay adoption does nothing to help solve it.




-NWA742

[Edited 2007-03-19 22:13:19]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:07 am

1) Abortion:
Against it in most cases, especially for minors who dont have parental notification or consent. Pretty sad that in our society a child can't keep Tylenol on their person at school in case of a head ache but in some states they can go down to the local abortion clinic and have an abortion performed (at tax payer expense) and the parents don't even have the right to know.

2) Gay Marriage:
Against gay marriage as I believe it's more of a religious thing, but no problem with civil unions or recognizing gay couples. I also have no problem with gay couples having the estate rights, etc. that married couples have.

3) Capital Punishment
For it, and I think we need to use it more. I certainly wouldnt be upset if child molestors or repeat rapists were executed (or at a minimum, castrated).
I'm always amused by the fact that so many people can support abortion but are against the death penalty. I mean, if your opinion is that you are against both abortion and the death penalty, I will completely respect that opinion and will not question it at all. But how some people can support the murder of the innocent but believe heinous criminals (murderers) should be given the right to life is beyond me.

4) Gay Adoption
Each side of this argument has an equal point and counterpoint. Example: While I do wish a child could have a mother and a father in the home, this is certainly negated by the fact that there are many single-parent homes.
I'll just say I'm undecided on this issue for now.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
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B747-437B
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:12 am

Abortion -- In today's world of abundantly available contraception, it is highly irresponsible for a woman not to exercise her "right to choose" in advance of getting pregnant. I oppose abortion except in special circumstances such as rape, health, etc...

Gay marriage -- Marriage is an institution between one man and one woman. Gay partners should be entitled to equivalent civil unions if they desire to enter into similar institutions.

Capital punishment -- Sometimes the only way is to fry the fuckers.

Gay adoption -- Children raised in supportive homes are far more likely to benefit than children raised by dysfunctional heterosexual parents. If a couple seeking to adopt can provide a proper home life for a child, it makes no difference if they are gay.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Well this is difficult , in our countries , to kill someone is prohibited , now a baby is also a living creature so if we take it out of the body of the mother we kill it , in the other hand it´s the right of the mother to decide as she has to bear the baby . I think much about this and I have not come yet to a clear view about this ... / to take the contraceptive pill is a far better option and better condoms

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Why not ? It´s discrimination if we don´t allow this people to marry

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

Never ! If we kill a murder we do the same he did , so as civilized
countries it has to be prohibited

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Also difficult but here it´s pretty clear , better than die of hunger in India live with two fathers / Normal Marriages should have priority

Konstantin

Edit:

Drugs : against

Euthanasia : Every person has the right to die in a dignified manner

[Edited 2007-03-19 22:21:12]
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
lijnden
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:16 am

1) Abortion: Against it. Abortion is a mental prison for life for the woman having them. For pro-choice it is prestige and for the baby it is death. I think the baby is always the center of disussion here and should never be harmed

2) Gay marriages: Pro

3) Capital Punishment: Pro, worthless people like proven murderers should be simply elimanated from earth

4) Gay adoption: Pro

5) Drugs: Against it, a general acceptance of drugs will never be possible if you already look at jobs people have. I do think it will be a great cash cow for tax revenues.

6) Euthnasia: Pro
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stlgph
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

it's no one's god damn business who or what comes in, on, or out of someone's body

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

it's no one's god damn business who or what comes in, on, or out of someone's body

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

absolutely. capital punishment should be punishment. lethal injections and hangings are quick and doing that person a favor. but the wimpified shit needs to go away. lethal injections, etc. it needs to be more fun. snake pits, death by paper cuts, lifetime imprisonment strapped down being forced to watch the Joan Rivers show letting someone come in every day and beat you once or twice with a billy club. that's the crap i'm all about.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

absolutely. it's a tradition in the Americas to cater to the lowest bidder.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:36 am

Abortion: I think they should cut it out.

Gay marriage: all marriages should be happy; otherwise, what's the point?

Capitol punishment: why punish only people in Washington D.C.?

Gay adoption: most gays are financially independent and therefore don't need to be adopted.


Period!
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:42 am

1) ABORTION: Absolutely against it. Use protection if you don't want a child. In my opinion a human being is created at conception. Abortion is murder.

2) GAY MARRIAGES: Pro

3) CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: Totally against this barbaric act. There is absolutely no room for this slaughter of human life. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

4) GAY ADOPTION: Still not totally comfortable on this idea. There is definately alot of merit to the argument that a child is better off being loved and cared for by a gay couple than being in a unstable or unsafe environment provided for by a heterosexual couple. At the end of the day, the decision should be made based on what will be productive to the kids development and well being.
 
searpqx
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:45 am

1) Abortion - Ultimately I support it, but I'm bothered by the use of abortion as a 'fix-all' for careless behavior. I fully support parental notification requirements

2) Gay Marriage - 100% support it. Along w/ gay marriage, I support decoupling religious & civil marriage. A church shouldn't be required to 'marry' anyone they object to, but a religious wedding should have no weight outside the church. All rights, privileges and responsibilities should be conferred through the civil marriage, and should be open to all.

3) Capital Punishment - There are some crimes that deserve death (the recent Florida case), but I will oppose the death penalty until the day that we know w/ 100% certainty that the person being executed indeed committed the crime. To date, it has been applied inconsistently and most likely, unfairly, killing innocent people. I think DNA testing goes a long way toward resolving the issue, but I don't think we're there yet.

4) Gay Adoption - Support it. Despite claims, there is no credible evidence that says adopted children from same sex households fare any worse than children from 'traditional' homes. There are even some recent studies that show that at least in some measures, the children do better, because of the 'desire' of the adoptive parents, to actually have and raise the children.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 13):
Gay adoption: most gays are financially independent and therefore don't need to be adopted.

He means adoptions of kids by Gays  Smile
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
aloges
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

For it up until a certain age of the fetus*. I can't stand all the radical anti-abortion hypocrites blasting other people for "poor parenting" while they deny people this last resort to plan parenthood.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Civil unions should be all that matters to the state. In a secular society, no church should have a say in who can live together and who cannot. If people want to get married before a priest, they can add that to their civil union.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

no way, nothing can possibly justify it

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

undecided: I agree with those who say a child should have a functioning (and that's the key word) family to grow up in, and while I have no doubt that a homosexual couple can love each other just like a heterosexual couple can, I guess the children could easily end up missing a mother or father figure after adoption by a homosexual couple. Then again, they will definitely end up missing the father figure if daddy decides to run away never to be found after learning that his "mare is in foal"...

*edit: not fetus, but embryo

[Edited 2007-03-19 22:59:43]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Not an ideal, but at the end of the day a woman's decision. Those who oppose abortion should work towards reducing the number by getting behind better sex-ed, and expanded adoption options. Make abortion irrelevant, not illegal.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Government has no business telling people who they can and can't marry. If you don't like the idea of marrying gays...fine, don't marry one. Otherwise stay the hell out of it!

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

My feelings are very conflicted on this one. I believe philosophically in capitol punishment, but in practice it is too flawed to allow it to continue. A system where ones financial means directly impact their chances of survival is unjust, and should therefore be abolished. And anyone who actually takes joy in the death of another human being, no matter how despicable that person may be, has serious psychological issues.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

I love all those social conservatives who believe that life begins at conception but ends at birth. With all the unwanted pregnancies/babies out there why on earth would anyone be against placing those children in loving, stable environments. Even if it is with a same-sex couple. There are now enough people in society who were raised by same-sex couples and guess what? They are just as well adjusted and successful as their peers. Not only that but most of them are (drumroll please) straight! Barring gay people from adopting, if they meet all the other requirements, is bigotry pure and simple.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:42 am

Abortion:
For, but agree completely with you AirxLiban in that it's the woman's decision for the first three months, her doctor's the second three and only in the last three if her life is endangered.

Gay marriage:
If any people want to marry it's up to them. Personally I'd have no interest, but it's not up to me to decide what other people should, or should not, do.

Capital punishment:
Against, for the simple reason that there have been too many unsafe verdicts. Better to keep a murderer in prison for life than kill someone by mistake.

Gay adoption:
Again I would have no interest here at all, but if a gay couple want to, and are found suitable, I don't see anything wrong with it. There are a lot of institutionalised kids in this world who would love to live in a loving home.
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 16):
Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 13):
Gay adoption: most gays are financially independent and therefore don't need to be adopted.

He means adoptions of kids by Gays

He absolutely knows that. This is the problem with the internet. I know that he absolutely knows, but I don't know if you are trying to be funny to his funny comments, if you were you are not funny, but maybe you are funny because I didn't know that you were trying to be funny, but if you were not trying to be funny than his comment is even more funny. Capisce?

Did you guys know that if a radio talk show host doesn't have a topic of discussion for the day they will use one of those items? You forgot gun control though. Too confusing putting all four topics in one thread though.

My views:

Abortion -- I give the women 3 months to decide, after that illegal.

Gay Marriage - I don't care. Do what ever you want. I believe the original push for this was to get health benefits for partners dying of AIDS.

Capital Punishment -- Oppose because of possible mistakes. But I'm kind of for it for BTK and Tookie Williams.

Gay Adoption -- If no one better is available sure, let the kids group up in a unusually environment, certainly better than being kicked around from one foster home to the next.

Gun Control --- Oppose, let the bad guys guess if I have a gun in my house or not. (OH, wait you didn't ask that, but nobody reads these anyway)
 
StarAC17
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 12):

absolutely. capital punishment should be punishment. lethal injections and hangings are quick and doing that person a favor. but the wimpified shit needs to go away. lethal injections, etc. it needs to be more fun. snake pits, death by paper cuts, lifetime imprisonment strapped down being forced to watch the Joan Rivers show letting someone come in every day and beat you once or twice with a billy club. that's the crap i'm all about.

If the Fox network reads this thread you might have give them a few ideas. Big grin
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
NoUFO
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

I like the regulation we have here in Germany. Abortion is generally prohibited but remains to be exempted from punishment if carried out in the first three months and provided that the woman has seeked counselling designed to discourage abortion. Abortion will also not be punished if giving birth would be life-threatening.
I firmly believe women who definitely want to abort will find ways to do so even if that would mean to harm their body.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Church should have no saying in civil unions and those unions should be legally equal to a marriage in church.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

That's easy: An unconditional 'No' here.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Difficult, as I'm undecided. I'm convinced the traditional family - a Mom, a Dad and possibly a brother or sister - is the best thing that can happen to any child. Provided the family is functioning. Gay adoption, however, is better than living in a children's home or living with careless parents.
I support the right to arm bears
 
Charger
Posts: 264
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion
2. Gay marriage
3. Capital punishment
4. Gay adoption

1. Abortion- For it 100%. It is no ones business what a women does with her body except hers.
2. Gay Marriage- For it. I have no problem with gays getting married.
3. Capital Punishment- For it 100%. I firmly believe in an eye for an eye.
4. Gay Adoption- For it. Their are to many children in this world who need a loving home.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 7):
Children need a father's touch and a mother's touch, period. That's why single parent homes often raise problematic children, and I could see it happening with gay parent homes as well.

Did you actually think before you posted this garbage? Where the hell are your brains. My father died when I was four years old. I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters. We were all raised without a father figure and you know what? We all turned out fine!!! Every one of us are college graduates, hold very good jobs, never been in trouble with the law, and are doing extremely well. I take your ridiculous statement as a complete INSULT. Why can't some people just think?

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 10):
Drugs : against

100% against against drugs.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 10):
Euthanasia : Every person has the right to die in a dignified manner

I never really thought about this one before but have been lately. I am starting to laen towards favoring it.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 3993
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:27 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Let the woman decide. I support it though.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

I have no interest here, but if two people of the same sex want to get married and think they'll be happy together, then hey, go for it.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

For it. Too bad it takes so long though, we should learn a lesson or two from the Iraqis.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Better the kid gets a home than stay on the streets or in foster homes. If the kid gets a loving home, then who cares if he/she has two dads or two mums?
אני תומך בישראל
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
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RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

For it.. One less unwanted kid now, one less drain on society or the prison system later.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

For it. They should be allowed to be just as miserable as straight people

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

Hell yeah.. I think it should even be expanded beyond just murder... The time between conviction and execution should also be shortened. Someone on death row should not be dying of old age.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Hell yeah.. Too many kids out there needing to be adopted for us to start getting picky. If its a good home, why not? It isn't like turning gay is like catching a cold.

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 9):
Abortion -- In today's world of abundantly available contraception, it is highly irresponsible for a woman not to exercise her "right to choose" in advance of getting pregnant. I oppose abortion except in special circumstances such as rape, health, etc...

I see what you are saying, but accidents happen... Just look at civil-av or polls and prefs
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion


Personally against except for rape,incest or health reasons,should not be a method of birth control..that said it should not be illegal.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
Gay marriage

If gays wanna screw up their lives like the rest of us let 'em, actually it doesn't matter to me,the far right makes too big an issue out of it.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
Capital Punishment

Absolutely,but it has to be a solid conviction

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
Gay adoption:

As long as they are as heavily scrutinized as hetero couples,I have no proplem with it.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 11):
Drugs:

I think a small amount of pot shouldn't be a criminal matter but all others should be prosecuted.
Gun control ..against,prosecute the criminals,no time off for good behavior for violent crimes.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:36 am

Abortion -

What bothers me about abortion is that it seems to be an excuse for kids to not practice safe sex. However, I am also not in favor of having 2 teenagers who go drunk and stupid one night be responsible for raising a kid if they don't think that they're ready. I believe there should be some sort of penalty for kids who got stupid and didn't practice safe sex, if you're not responsible to use safe sex, then you have absolutely no business having sex at all.

As for abortion in general, I'm not against it, in the first trimester, and if the mothers life is in danger, then I don't really have an argument against it in any stage.

Gay Marriage -

Go for it. My Catholic upbringing might have taught me differently, but it's not like I see heterosexual people honor the sanctity of marriage. We have Britney Spears getting married for a whole 48 hours, so any argument about the sanctity of marriage just seems to fly out the window. I figure if the homosexual couple love each other and are willing to honor the commitment that they made to each other then how could I possible argue against that.

Capital Punishment -

I'm for capital punishment, however, if it were to be abolished and those that were on death row were put in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives I'm not against that either, so long as the light of day never reaches their eyes.

Gay Adoption -

Sure, why not, if I don't mind them getting married it's sure hard to argue against homosexuals being able to adopt. I really don't see many people having a problem with gay adoption, at least I don't.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 1):
Abortion: Pro-Choice

Gay Marriage: For it

Capitol Punishment: Eye for an eye; life for a life

Gay Adoption: Why not, gay people physically can't have babies with each other the natural way

Amen. These are my views as well.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
Am interested in soliciting the board's opinion on a number of social issues, particularly the following:

1. Abortion - Support (shhhhh, don't tell anybody, they'll take away my NeoCon card).

2. Gay marriage - Still deciding. The more I talk to Westy and STLGph the more I (think) I understand gay people. If they'll just call it something else (civil union?), I think my mind would be made up.

3. Capital punishment -  thumbsup   thumbsup   thumbsup  Absolutely.

4. Gay adoption - See #2.
 
trav110
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:51 am

Abortion:
We've got enough idiots in the world today, do you think the prime candidate for an abortion is going to grow up in the most nurturing family to lead a happy life, much less contribute to society? I think not.

Gay Marriage:
Why not?

Capital Punishment:
Only qualm I have with this is the risk of killing the innocent - the judicial system isn't perfect.

Gay Adoption:
Why the hell not?
 
tz757300
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):
no way, nothing can possibly justify it

So basically you're saying thats its fair for a innocent person to get killed and a murder to survive in prison for 20-30yrs? Why would it be fair that a murderer gets to survive meanwhile the person who had nothing to do with it is dead? Very bad logic if you tell me. Plus, I think it would be a good idea if murders do die for their action since its still a 50/50 chance that once they get out of prison, they'll do it again. That would be 2 people dead and 1 person (murderer) still alive. If they get sentenced to life in prison, they are just eating up tax dollars to feed them and put them in confinement. I definately don't want to support any murderer.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 7):
4. Gay adoption

Absolutely not - having a child raised under gay parents is raising them under extremely abnormal parenting conditions. Children need a father's touch and a mother's touch, period. That's why single parent homes often raise problematic children, and I could see it happening with gay parent homes as well. Imagine if you were a straight kid raised under two gay men, neither of which were your biological father. I could see endless problems and arguments arising over differences, ways of life, and that would be very harmful to the child's development.

The failure of the family is an extreme problem, and gay adoption does nothing to help solve it.

Where the hell did you come from? I've been raised by my mother for 15 yrs and you know what, I feel that I am a very successful child. I have had no run-in's with the police, no involvement with school behavior issues, and am going to college next year. Would you consider me problematic? Would you consider the 20 other students like me raised by single parents problematic? I sure hope not. And believe it or not, the valedictorian of our class and 3 other of my fellow students have gay parents. I surely hope you don't call them problematic. Yes, I'm very sure there have been issues between them, but issues and arguments don't last forever, they usually last 5-10 minutes.

Another point, If I showed you 100 children raised by gay parents, I can almost guarantee you that they won't be racist, prejudiced, or bigots. They will have tolerance for other people and ways of life. I see that as a positive aspect to a person, not a negative.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11301
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 21):

If the Fox network reads this thread you might have give them a few ideas.

they'll let me commentate!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:17 am

1. Abortion: limited to health issues only.
Is anyone willing to take the "it's a womans body" argument to the other side and abolish child support payments and alimony since a man can do what he wants with his body too? When someone finally does manage the immaculate conception, then it is her choice alone.

2. Gay Marriage: Go for it

3. Capital Punishment: Yup

4. Gay Adoption: More the merrier.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Thats a hard one, I kind of sit on the fence. Overall I don't mind early term or RU486. I don't like the idea of a long term abortion or women who have multiples. There should be a limit of two, kind of like when you get a smoking deal on a TV at Best Buy.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

I'm for gays having equal state and civil benefits, but I do not believe that a gay couple should bring a baby into the world. That said, it seems to me that the only reason for marriage is to establish raising children. I have to say yes to civil unions but no to marriage.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

I don't believe that anyone has the right or absolute knowledge to take someone else's life as revenge. It has been proven that capital punishment isn't a deterrent.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

I think that if there was a prior relationship which created the child, it should be allowed. If it was from a previous heterosexual relationship or if family/friends pass away leaving the children it should be allowed. I guess I feel like alot of people look at me as a bad person for this, but I believe that a child should have the experience of having a mother and a father. I realize that there are alot of heterosexual births where this doesn't happen and I don't think that its right, its just the way it is.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
tz757300
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 34):
It has been proven that capital punishment isn't a deterrent.

Thats because death is a very unlikely option for most people. If you kill them all or most of them, I'm sure people wouldn't kill people again.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:00 pm

1. Abortion

IMO, it's up to the woman. I have no idea, or opinion on when life begins, but I still believe that the woman has the right to choose. If she doesn't want the baby in the first place, there's always the possibility that she won't make a very good mother.

2. Gay marriage

People shouldn't care about who gets married and who doesn't. It's not a threat to the institution of marriage, look at heterosexual divorce rates to find the real "threat". And a society where a certain group of people is excluded from doing certain things or having certain rights, simply because they're different in some way is wrong. We're no longer allowed to treat groups differently because of race, religion, etc. Then how can we stand for the fact that homosexuals are discriminated against and not entitled to the same rights as everybody else?!

3. Capital punishment

I don't know. On the one hand, IMO, there are crimes where jail time does not constitute a just punishment. On the other, I don't believe that governments should be in the business of killing people. I don't buy the "deterrent"-argument, since it obviously isn't. Just say that it's to punish the guy to the extreme, which is what it is, and sometimes I do believe they deserve it. And if you're gonna do it, there should be more safeguards, like the fact that Texas stopped executing mentally challenged people a few years back, that was nice of them.

4. Gay adoption

If we have the proper selection procedures, there should be no doubt that the home where the child will be placed will be a good one, with loving parents. Then there's the "he'll be bullied"-argument, which I once again do not buy into. I know a gay couple who have a kid, and he's doing fine. He's 10 years old now, and his classmates do not pick on him at all, never have. Hell, his dads have been together for 16 years, that's longer than my parents, longer than alot of my friends' parents. And BTW, this is the best dressed kid in the whole damn school.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:28 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Overused; too many of them occur...don't really have a moral objection to early abortions but I don't like late-term abortions unless the fetus is severely deformed or has a serious illness, or the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy and nothing else can be done to save the pregnancy.

Quote:
2. Gay marriage

Don't care...it's a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
3. Capital punishment

I don't like the way it's implemented; I think it's too easy to execute innocent people, plus it's expensive and not a deterrant. I don't actually have a problem with the state killing people; if your state has a military, then your state advocates killing people.

Quote:
4. Gay adoption

Non-issue; can't even pretend to care.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3492
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

I am pro choice, but am completely against late term abortion, and I'm a Republican.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Against. Marriage is between a man and a woman. They can have Civil Unions, but not marriage.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

100% for it. With DNA evidence we should be able to streamline the process. Five years or two appeals while on Death Row, whatever comes first. After that, throw the switch and watch em twitch. We should also stiffen the penalties for sexual offenders. I'm not talking about an 18 year old who gets busted for having sex with a 17 year old. I am talking about pedophiles, and child molesters.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

I think everyone should have to pass a parenting aptitude test. If you can pass it then you can have your child. This goes for adoptions and couples trying to conceive.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Charger (Reply 23):
Did you actually think before you posted this garbage? Where the hell are your brains. My father died when I was four years old. I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters. We were all raised without a father figure and you know what? We all turned out fine!!! Every one of us are college graduates, hold very good jobs, never been in trouble with the law, and are doing extremely well. I take your ridiculous statement as a complete INSULT. Why can't some people just think?



Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 31):
Where the hell did you come from? I've been raised by my mother for 15 yrs and you know what, I feel that I am a very successful child. I have had no run-in's with the police, no involvement with school behavior issues, and am going to college next year. Would you consider me problematic? Would you consider the 20 other students like me raised by single parents problematic? I sure hope not.

First of all, I'm happy that you two have led successful lives. But I must ask...........do you not understand the word "often"?

Please re-read what I wrote:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 7):
single parent homes often raise problematic children

Now, I'm willing to consider that the stats don't lie in this case. Single-parent homes are more prone to poverty, abuse, mental illness, and I'm sure other damaging problems to kids. It's a great thing that you both came out of them succeeding, but you also don't count for the other thousands upon thousands of kids living in single parent homes that may not have the same outcome.

My point is - other than the financial benefit of having two caring adults, I don't see how raising a child under a gay parenthood is any better. Think about it - a straight kid living under gay, non biological parents. This is a very abnormal situation, and you know it. You are naive if you ignore the potential conflicts and major problems that are much more likely to rise under this situation than in a normal, biological parent, male and female household. Gay households will raise a child under a likely conflicting lifestyle.

It's not stupid to say that children need a mother and father's touch - not all do, but many do, and that's very important. It's also important to consider the effects of being raised by someone who practices a lifestyle which may conflict with the natural tendencies of a straight child.

So please, relax before you get offended, and you'll see where I'm coming from. The failure of the family was a major factor, among others, that have brought down some of this world's most powerful civilizations throughout history.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
airxliban
Topic Author
Posts: 4307
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:57 am

Thanks guys for all the great responses! Glad that this didn't turn into the flame fest predicted by TZ757300 as that was not my original intention anyway.

Couple of observations:

It seems like most of us are more liberal than society in general. I can't believe that there weren't a number of people who are pro-choice, opposite gay rights and are pro capital punishment.

With regards to abortion, most people are pro choice though many are still uncomfortable with the idea, some because it encourages irresponsible sexual activity, some because we believe that human life begins at concept.

Gay marriage - precious few have a problem with it. Surprising - I would have thought it would be more 50/50.

Capital punishment - maybe 40% for it, 60% against.

Gay adoption - most people seem to be for it.

So what do we do now? Argue more or move on to a different topic?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Pro-Choice

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

Pro...with the divorce rate what it is these days, I think that ruins the "sanctity of marriage" more than two gays getting hitched.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

Pro

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Pro...if more kids had two parents who WANTED kids, rather than two parents who accidentally had kids (or one, with the other running out), the world might be a better place
 
airxliban
Topic Author
Posts: 4307
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 41):
Pro...with the divorce rate what it is these days, I think that ruins the "sanctity of marriage" more than two gays getting hitched.

I think that if you search across the entire world and discover that even one marriage has lasted until death does the wife and husband apart, then the sanctity of married is not destroyed.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 31):
Why would it be fair that a murderer gets to survive meanwhile the person who had nothing to do with it is dead?

'Fair' is the wrong term, since it's never fair if somebody dies, more so if he/she was innocent. Not killing prisoners, however, is the only option a civilized country has.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 31):
its still a 50/50 chance that once they get out of prison, they'll do it again. That would be 2 people dead and 1 person (murderer) still alive.

Frankly, that's bull. It's less likely that a former murderer will re-offend after a long time in prison then that the conviction was wrongful.
I support the right to arm bears
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

I believe abortion should only be allowed under the following circumstances:

- Within a 60 day period from conception.
- In situations of rape or incest.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

As a religious man, I don't believe in it. However, to each his own. I don't care as long as it isn't forced on the church or other religions.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

I believe certain felons who can't, or refuse, to be rehabilitated are a threat to society and should be executed. Repeat offenders of serious crimes are also threat to society and should be executed.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Couple's should be judged as to whether they can be effective parents or not, regardless of sexual orientation.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:18 am

1) Abortion

It's a woman's right to make the moral and ethical decisions which suit her best. If it's abortion, so be it. If it's to have the baby and put it up for adoption or raise it herself, so be it. None of my business.

2) Gay Marriage

All marriage should be a civil matter. Governments should allow two people of any sex to get married. If a couple wants to make it a religious ceremony, the church, temple, mosque, or wherever they want to have their marriage should either accept all comers or lose their tax-exempt status. I don't believe this is precedent-setting. The U.S. government forced Utah to drop polygamy as a condition for joining the Union. Any time Utah wants to reinstate polygamy, there is actually a legal ground for revoking their status as a state. We accept that states have to have a drinking age of 21 in order to receive highway funding, along with many other conditions for federal funds, so marriage should be no different.

3) Capital Punishment

I don't believe in revenge killing.

4) Gay Adoption

Any qualified person or couple able to provide a stable home environment should be allowed to adopt a child.
International Homo of Mystery
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:32 am

Abortion: I used to be adamantly pro-choice, but in recent years my opinion has changed and I can't help but equate it to murder of an innocent being. I believe that anything that requires my body as a way to sustain life for a period of months is akin to a human being. Even if it is not a human, it is a "human in progress" and I don't have a right to cut off that progress intentionally.

Gay marriage: For it.

Capital punishment: For it for murder cases.

Gay adoption: For it as long as the couple is in a long term relationship.
 
CVG777
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
1. Abortion

Mostly Against. Everything has consequences, including sex. If one is going to partake in an activity, I believe that one had better be prepared to accept the responsibilities that arise from that activity. And this is not just for sex, but for every choice that people make. I don't like when people think that they can find an easy way out of a situation and not take responsibility for their actions. People always want a way out. It's human nature. I admit that I do the same thing, but I always try to find the silver lining. An unwanted baby should be put up for adoption.

However, in cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the mother or child is in danger, I have no problem with abortion. Otherwise, I feel it should be discouraged.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
2. Gay marriage

For. I have no problems with gay marriage. Government should stay out of it.

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
3. Capital punishment

For. Especially for some of the most heinous acts (read: Jessica Lunsford).

Quoting AirxLiban (Thread starter):
4. Gay adoption

Unsure. Don't really know enough about all the implications, so I am not really in a position to take a stand on the issue.

/Moderate Republican  Wink
 
tz757300
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 39):
So please, relax before you get offended, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

I understand your point much clearer now, I do apologize for being so oppositional to your post. Although I still think gay parents don't have much to do with dysfunctional children, I still respect your opinion.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Frankly, that's bull.

Frankly, thats bull too. Why do you see so many repeat offenders in prison then? And I'm sorry, its 1:7 ratio of people coming back to prison.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Not killing prisoners, however, is the only option a civilized country has.

How about a inmate island? Leave them there without having to worry about them, pretty humane and civilized to me.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Social Issues - Your Opinions

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Not killing prisoners, however, is the only option a civilized country has.

On the contrary, I think our society would be more civilized if we ridden society of the non-civilized ones (ie, murderers, child rapists, etc.). Why should those of us who abide by the law bear the burdern of providing the non-civilized ones with three meals a day, medical care, protection, a bed to sleep in? Sure, there are those in the correction system who can be rehabilitated and our correctional system needs to do a better job of preparing them to reenter society. But it's like we're rewarding murderers. "Never work a day again. Never worry about whether or not you're going to eat. Never worry about whether or not you''ll have medical care. Never worry about whether or not you'll have a place to sleep. Society, the people you screwed over, will be providing all that for you!"
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001

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