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UALPHLCS
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Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:37 pm

The thread on Best and Worst Albums from Great bands got me thinking so in honor of the pre-sale today for the forth coming Rush Concert to promote their newest CD Snakes and Arrows, I'd like Rush fans to list your favorite albums. Live stuff counts but not the compilations.
If you care to give reasons why go right ahead:

1) Exit...Stage Left Covers my favorite period of Rush plus has Rhythm Method and Broon's Bane

2) Permanent Waves Neil at his lyrical best complicated time signatures and Freewill and my favorite Rush song of all Spirit of Radio

3) A Farewell to Kings Couple of Rush classics on this record. But some over looked gems as well and Cygnus X-1Guys are beginning to hit their stride.

4) 2112 Goes without saying.

5) Moving Pictures This is a tough one because I like every song on this record and its the most popular. Which is probably why I can't rank it higher.

6) Signals Apparently Alex thinks Signals is unlistenable. Yes, this is where synth really took over from guitar. But on the other hand as I was growing up lyrically it spoke to me. So I can't dismiss it.

7) Counterparts Very strong CD I like what the boys did here. Lyrically Neil was great bravado was awesome as is Double Agent. Ended with a weaker song with I think people picked up on.

8) Hemispheres 4 songs on the whole album and everyone of them is great.

9) Hold Your Fire As I get older the Song Time Stand Still becomes more and more meaningful. And this CD gets better and better

10) Roll the Bones

11) Fly By Night

12) A Show of Hands

13) Caress of Steel

14) Power Windows

15) Grace Under Pressure

16) Rush

17) All the Worlds A Stage

18) Different Stages Great Concert Album and I was At one of the shows they recorded although they mostly used Chicago

19) Vapor Trails

20) Test For Echo

21) Presto The last of the Synth records. The weakest lyrically. It's like the guys knew they needed a new direction.

Now don't misunderstand, I'd listen to any of the last ten over 99% of the crap that's out now. But this is a comparison with other Rush albums and how they rate against one another.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:46 pm

Damn, I'd put All the World's a Stage up higher. Not the best recording quality, but By-tor and the Snow Dog absolutely kicks ass. One of the best tunes of the early era, especially live, IMO.

I'd also have Caress of Steel up higher. That and Permanent Waves (yes, very different) are equally wonderful. My favorites by far are A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres. I started playing a Rickenbacker 4001 in 1980 because of Geddy Lee, BTW. Still playing bass after all these years...

I have to confess, I quit listening to them after Moving Pictures. Switched to Airplane, ELP, Yes, King Crimson and the Dead. Still prog after all these years...
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 1):
Damn, I'd put All the World's a Stage up higher. Not the best recording quality,

One thing I like about the sound quality of All The Words A Stage is that it is totally flat. You can eq it much easier that way when listening on a quality stereo system.
Exit Stage Left is too muffled and and A Show Of Hands is too much treble.
The more recent concert albums have it just right.





Here is how I rank them.

Hemisheres
A Farewell To Kings
Power Windows
Hold Your Fire
Caress Of Steel
Permanent Waves
RUSH (1st. album)
Moving Pictures
Signals
2112
Grace Under Pressure
Fly By Night
Roll The Bones
Test For Echo
Presto
Counterparts
.
.
.
.
Vaportrails

Not listing the concert albums or the Feedback album.

I don't mind the synth at all. Geddy Lee was a genius with the sounds he got out of them. I don't care for the heavy for the sake of being heavy sound. It's been that way from Counterparts onward.
I hated the grunge influence as I never liked grunge.
Ironically I liked Alex Lifeson's solo album 'Victor' a lot. Every song was different. Some of it was silly but at least he was attempting something he never done with Neil and Geddy.

How about bootlegs?
My favorites is Newcastle 1977 with Xanadu sung with different lyrics. Also it has By-Tor and the Snow Dog / Necromancer medley with Geddy using his doubleneck bass/guitar.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
How about bootlegs?
My favorites is Newcastle 1977 with Xanadu sung with different lyrics. Also it has By-Tor and the Snow Dog / Necromancer medley with Geddy using his doubleneck bass/guitar.

You know I dont have any bootlegs!?

Surprising as that is.

I'd Love to listen to them though.

As you can see from my list however I think the era from A Farewell to Kings through Signals was their absolute best. I wish I had been a little bit older to enjoy them when they came out. As it was I had to wait til high school when all of the musicians in schools where Rush fans.

(My wife and I met at Band Camp, and still love Rush, she was the one who bought our tickets at the pre-sale and called me in triumph)
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 3):
As you can see from my list however I think the era from A Farewell to Kings through Signals was their absolute best. I wish I had been a little bit older to enjoy them when they came out. As it was I had to wait til high school when all of the musicians in schools where Rush fans.

 checkmark 
Agreed!
That there most creative peak. I love there material from that era the most. I do appreciate the synth material of the mid 1980s as well. Many fans disagree with me but I consider Hold Your Fire to be the very last album in which the band really were trying something new and different and challenging. Presto onward sounds as if the band is on autopilot.
Sure there are a few bright spots such as Time & Motion, Where's My Thing, Ghost Of A Chance, Available Light, Double Agent and Everyday Glory but none of it holds a candle to there earlier material.
As far as the heavy sound, I prefer there early years. At the time, there were doing something different.

Shame you don't have any bootlegs. All of my bootlegs are on LP and cassette.
I need to get a CD recorder to get in on all the CD bootleg trading.
Wait, come to think of it, I have a few CD bootlegs.
Let me know if you'd be interested in some.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Wait, come to think of it, I have a few CD bootlegs.
Let me know if you'd be interested in some.

Sure I'd be interested.

Anything with Rush I'm interesed in.

BTW are you going to any of the concerts?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 5):
BTW are you going to any of the concerts?

Yes.
I'll see them when they come here to the Bay Area. Most likely Shoreline and Concord.
I would love it if they played the Fillmore.

I have bootlegs from every tour but most are on LP and cassette.
The only CD bootlegs I have is Caress Of Steel tour in Rockford, Illinois and Hemispheres tour Vancouver, B.C.
If you don't mind cassette, I can make you cassette copies.
Most bootlegs don't sound that well but of the professional sound board bootlegs I have is
St. Louis 1980 (this is the best sound quality one by far. It was broadcast live on the radio back in 1980)
Bloomington, Minnesota 1986 (Power Windows tour)
Detroit, Michigan 1994 VIDEO this is a 10 camera show that the band never release. I have this on VHS.
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miamiair
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:34 pm

Tickets go on sale this Saturday for a 15 JUN 07 performance at the Sound Advice Amphitheatre(Palm Beach).

I will be there...
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):
Tickets go on sale this Saturday for a 15 JUN 07 performance at the Sound Advice Amphitheatre(Palm Beach).

They are available for pre-order now:

http://www.rush.com/ click on "tour."
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):

Sure that's cool thank you in advance.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):

try to pre-order like CastleIsland says. My wife pre-ordered and while the seats are good it's almost impossible to get up near the front, especially if you wait.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:21 am

Not too impressed with Far Cry but I'll still going out an buy Snakes On A Plane and see them in concert.
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Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 9):
it's almost impossible to get up near the front, especially if you wait.

I've always got within the first 5 rows and bought within 24 hours of the show. Then I again, I have connections.  Wink
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CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Then I again, I have connections

What are you, Ayn Rand's political alter-ego?  Wink
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 12):
What are you, Ayn Rand's political alter-ego?

I wish she were alive just so I could throw a pie in her face. Big grin

Yep, I am a RUSH fan that hates Ayn Rand.  yes 
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CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Yep, I am a RUSH fan that hates Ayn Rand.

Count me in as another...
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
miamiair
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:50 am

Got the tickets...

Thanks John for the heads up...
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I've always got within the first 5 rows and bought within 24 hours of the show. Then I again, I have connections.

I wish I had connections.

I had to shmooze the local DJ who loved taking US to SFO for 3 years before I got an opportunity to hit him up for an "upgrade" I go 20th row which is the closest I've ever been.

Ah someday though.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Yep, I am a RUSH fan that hates Ayn Rand.

I'm not surprised based on your comments in other threads but I am surprised. Rush introduced me to Ayn Rand and lead me to my wariness of government. Most of Neil's lyrics are anti-collectivist and expose a wariness of government intrusion.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 15):
Rush introduced me to Ayn Rand

Same here.
Ayn Rand ran me away from her and her selfish, self-centered ideals.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 15):
Most of Neil's lyrics are anti-collectivist and expose a wariness of government intrusion.

Yet anti big business, anti-nationalism and anti-war, anti-bigotry, and pro Civil Rights with songs like Territories, The Big Money, Manhattan Project, Nobody's Hero, Resist

[Edited 2007-03-28 20:00:02]
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CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 14):
Got the tickets...

Thanks John for the heads up...

No worries. I haven't seen Rush since 1984... scratchchin 

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Yet anti big business, anti-nationalism and anti-war, anti-bigotry, and pro Civil Rights with songs like Territories, The Big Money, Manhattan Project, Nobody's Hero, Resist

Funny how Peart drew so strongly on limited aspects of Rand's message and is so apparently opposed to other aspects. I guess he's just one of those people who "gets it."  Wink
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 17):
No worries. I haven't seen Rush since 1984...

You must have saw them in 3-D  Wow!
Did you hang on to those 3-D glasses that were issued at the concert?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 17):
I guess he's just one of those people who "gets it."

Yep!  yes 

You know it's only 1 song that he wrote that was anti-collectivist and suddenly so many conservatives think of him as some conservative. Keep in mind, Tom Sawyer and Freewill is equally anti-religion which is very liberal.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Yet anti big business, anti-nationalism and anti-war, anti-bigotry,a nd pro Civil Rights with songs like Territories, The Big Money, Manhattan Project, Nobody's Hero, Resist

Not to disagree but I never read the lyrics of Big Money for example were anti-Big Business.

In fact I always thought Neil's lyrics were remarkable because they were so balanced.

Sometimes building Ivory towers
Sometimes knocking Castles down

Basically he was saying Business is in essence neutral, its all in the PEOPLE who are guiding the money. Sometimes its good sometimes not.

It's a subtle and powerful commentary.

Likewise Manhattan Project isn't anti-war. More anti-nuke, but who really WANTS to use nukes?

If you listen to Red Sector A, Neil speaks of liberators violently liberating a concentration camp. So sometimes war in necessary.

As for pro-civil rights, that is the essence of Ayn Rand. Her philosophy fiercely defends the rights of individuals over the society and the government.

I think you fundamentally misread Ayn Rand's philosophy, which takes the biblical ideal "do unto others as you would have done to you" to it's logical conclusion.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
You must have saw them in 3-D

And I didn't even need the glasses for that.  Wink

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Did you hang on to those 3-D glasses that were issued at the concert?

 no 
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 19):
More anti-nuke, but who really WANTS to use nukes?

So why should the government waste so much tax dollars building up a nuclear arsenal?
Keep in mind, this was in 1985 and who was our acting President back then?
Yes Neil is Canadian but I am sure he wasn't a fan of the arms race.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 19):
Basically he was saying Business is in essence neutral, its all in the PEOPLE who are guiding the money.

Now let's not get caught up in to symantics.

Big money goes around the world
Big money underground
Big money got a mighty voice
Big money make no sound
Big money pull a million strings
Big money hold the prize
Big money weave a mighty web
Big money draw the flies

Sometimes pushing people around
Sometimes pulling out the rug
Sometimes pushing all the buttons
Sometimes pulling out the plug
Its the power and the glory
Its a war in paradise
Its a cinderella story
On a tumble of the dice

Big money goes around the world
Big money take a cruise
Big money leave a mighty wake
Big money leave a bruise
Big money make a million dreams
Big money spin big deals
Big money make a mighty head
Big money spin big wheels

Sometimes building ivory towers
Sometimes knocking castles down
Sometimes building you a stairway --
Lock you underground
Its that old-time religion
Its the kingdom they would rule
Its the fool on television
Getting paid to play the fool

Big money goes around the world
Big money give and take
Big money done a power of good
Big money make mistakes
Big money got a heavy hand
Big money take control
Big money got a mean streak
Big money got no soul...


I read that as a very cynical outlook on big-business and wealth. Have you seen the video?
The computer animated sports car has the license plate that reads; 'Mr. Big'.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
You know it's only 1 song that he wrote that was anti-collectivist and suddenly so many conservatives think of him as some conservative. Keep in mind, Tom Sawyer and Freewill is equally anti-religion which is very liberal.

See the problem is that you just understand conservatism, and hold on to cliches and think that represents conservatives.

First off, Red Barchetta is anti-government intrusion? Heresy is about the collapse of the Soviet Bloc? The Trees is about anti-collectivism.

I know you like to point to Freewill as an anti-religion song. First Freewill is a concept developed by St. Augustine, in developing Christian philosophy, explaining how evil can enter a world god created. Be that as it may, Neil is only saying what HE would choose. He isn't really criticizing others so much except those parts of religion that are intolerant. So I've had no problem integrating what Neil is saying while maintaining my faith.

Tom Sawyer, is a song as I take it to heart about someone depending on himself and not look to government to solve his problems.

Songs like Witchhunt are about intolerance and bigotry, Natural Science is about striking a balance between scientific progress and nature, lest science take over our lives.

If you truly understood that most conservatives like myself are conservatives because leaving the Constitution alone is the surest way to preserve liberty, that allowing Government to regulate more and more of our lives we are in danger of losing that liberty you wouldn't resort to the cliches that the lefties use to paint all conservatives as Pat Robertson.

True Conservatives are not like the Social conservatives of the fundamentalist christian stripe. They are are Christian Taliban. True conservatives are more like the enlightenment inspired founders, and the Republicans of Lincoln's era.
True Conservatives of the Ayn Rand mold are more libertarian on social issues. Remember the Republican party was founded on the abolitionist movement.

Therefore there is alot in Neil's lyrics that is appealing, well beyond 2112.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
Be that as it may, Neil is only saying what HE would choose.

Exactly.
However that sort of free thinking isn't tolerated at all in the church.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
Tom Sawyer, is a song as I take it to heart about someone depending on himself and not look to government to solve his problems.

I think you're taking that out of context. Tom Sawyer wasn't about any sort of 'dependance' at all.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
If you truly understood that most conservatives like myself are conservatives because leaving the Constitution alone is the surest way to preserve liberty, that allowing Government to regulate more and more of our lives we are in danger of losing that liberty you wouldn't resort to the cliches that the lefties use to paint all conservatives as Pat Robertson.

Trust me, I am well aware of the different types of conservatives. My view of conservatism is not shaped by like-minded liberals. Also I haven't lived in San Francisco all of my life.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
True conservatives are more like the enlightenment inspired founders, and the Republicans of Lincoln's era.

 redflag 
Totally incorrect.
The original Republicans were liberals. Conservatives we all Democrats, mostly in the south.
That all started to change since the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s.
The north has always been more liberal and the south has always been conservative. The only thing that has changed is the political parties. If you find an electoral map of 1896 and compare it to 1996, it's almost a total reverse of each other in terms of political parties. There hasn't been any ideological shift of these regions.
The first well known environmentalist was John Muir and he was a Republican. You think he'd support Bush & co. today?

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
Therefore there is alot in Neil's lyrics that is appealing, well beyond 2112.

 checkmark 
Agreed!

Glad to bee able to raise the bar of the non-av forums and discuss RUSH.  bigthumbsup 
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
However that sort of free thinking isn't tolerated at all in the church.

Superfly, I just showed you that Freewill is a Philosophy CREATED by the Church! How on earth can you say that? Likewise I told you that I can reconcile Neil's free thinking with my faith, and there are no ecclesiastical ramifications.

You have to open up your own thinking.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Tom Sawyer wasn't about any sort of dependence at all.

No it was more about Neal's own unease in society. But the Line "His mind is not for rent to any god or government" is clear. There is a powerful anti-government message in many of Neil's lyrics. I was merely pointing out that there are many lyrics (Not just one as you said) that conservatives can hear and feel right at home in his writing.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Also I haven't lived in San Francisco all of my life.

LOL

Great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Totally incorrect.

See there is where you ARE wrong. The underlying principles of the Republican Party HAVE NOT changed since it's creation. While I didn't know John Muir was a Republican, it doesn't surprise me in the least. Teddy Roosevelt Created the National Park System the first in the world and he was a Republican. But he was also a hunter. He understood how to preserve for "RESPONSIBLE use." Free Soil Free Labor Free Men was the original Party Slogan. The Party was made up of Whigs like Lincoln Who were for business interests, and the halt of Slavery.

Your theory that it was a party swapping is incorrect. In fact it was a radicalization of society that occurred. In the 1920s and 30s as socialism was sweeping around the world there were labor riots and communist rallies in many nations. The Republicans got the reputation of being for big business then, because they always has supported business as the route to prosperity. It was part of the Whig platform and the Federalist platform before them in those days the issue was the use of Federal funds for internal improvements for trade, canals, harbors, roads. By the 20th Century it was finance. The Democrats have always been opposed to business. From its founding, to Jacksonian anti-banking laws to today the Democrats have always been antagonistic to business. The Democrats became an unholy alliance in the early 20th century between real honest to god Socialists and Southern Social conservative Democrats who STILL stood for Jacksonian anti-banking anti-buiness policies and that would NEVER vote for a Republican. The Socialists thought the Democrats in the south would bring in the farmers, while the northern Democrats brought in the industrial labor. (see the parallel to what Marx wanted?) Southern SOCIAL conservatives liked the anti-buisness proposals of the Socialists and they were considered friends of the farmers.

We got FDR who brought us closer to Socialism as we have ever been.

My Point is that is you look at US political history objectively, the Republican party ideals Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men, has NEVER been abandoned. Not by those who REALLY understand it. unfortunately many a politician has compromised those principles, but the same can be said for the other side.

OK so in the end what I'm telling you is that One can be an:

Environmentalist
Libertarian
Religious
Patriotic
Civil Rights defender
And still be a conservative Republican. In fact if your NOT these things then you are compromising the Party's values.

Neil's lyrics are on the whole balanced. "Science like Nature must also be tamed. With a view towards it's preservation." He says basically the same thing in Big Money. What Neil is REALLY wary of is anything, good or bad going out of balance, because in his view too much of even a good thing is bad.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 24):
OK so in the end what I'm telling you is that One can be an:

Environmentalist
Libertarian
Religious
Patriotic
Civil Rights defender
And still be a conservative Republican.

Wow, given 1, 2 and 5, I can see why mainstream Republicans such as yourself are disappointed in their party. Mainly because 3 and 4 are thrust ahead of all else. Thing is, I'm:

Environmentalist
Libertarian
Spiritual
Patriotic
Civil Rights defender
And a Social Libertarian and a Fiscal Socialist.

Mods: Sorry to appear off-topic, but RUSH, in particular their lyrics, are immensly political. Thanks for letting us broaden the topic and still remain in line with forum rules.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 25):
Mods: Sorry to appear off-topic, but RUSH, in particular their lyrics, are immensly political. Thanks for letting us broaden the topic and still remain in line with forum rules.

Good call thanks.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 24):
I just showed you that Freewill is a Philosophy CREATED by the Church!

You actually think that, yet tell me that I need to 'open up' my own thinking?  Wow!

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 24):
From its founding, to Jacksonian anti-banking laws to today the Democrats have always been antagonistic to business.

...and for good reason.


As I was saying earlier, Neil can't be claimed by either left or right. You finally came around to saying just that with "What Neil is REALLY wary of is anything, good or bad going out of balance, because in his view too much of even a good thing is bad."
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
You actually think that, yet tell me that I need to 'open up' my own thinking?

Superfly, I'm trying to help you to see.

Augustine remains a central figure, both within Christianity and in the history of Western thought, and is considered by modern historian Thomas Cahill to be the first medieval man and the last classical man.[5] In both his philosophical and theological reasoning, he was greatly influenced by Stoicism, Platonism and Neoplatonism, particularly by the work of Plotinus, author of the Enneads, probably through the mediation of Porphyry and Victorinus (as Pierre Hadot has argued). His generally favorable view of Neoplatonic thought contributed to the "baptism" of Greek thought and its entrance into the Christian and subsequently the European intellectual tradition. His early and influential writing on the human will, a central topic in ethics, would become a focus for later philosophers such as Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. In addition, Augustine was influenced by the work of both Virgil (known for his teaching on language) and Cicero (known for his teaching on argument).

"God, oh Lord, grant me the power to overcome sin. For sin is that which you gave to us when you granted us free choice of will. If I choose wrongly, then I shall be justly punished for it. Is that not true, my Lord, of whom I indebted for my temporal existence. Thank you, Lord, for granting me the power to will my self not to sin.(Free Choice of the Will, Book One)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo

St. Augustine invented the concept of freewill. Neil's philosophy IS NOT incompatible with religion.

[Edited 2007-03-29 03:37:09]
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CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 28):
Superfly, I'm trying to help you to see.

OK, you are most often erudite, clear and respectful, but that does come across as a bit pretentious.

"Lemme explain" might have been a better choice, but then again, I'm guilty of poor word choices here too.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 29):

Noted.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 30):
Noted.

No worries.

Signed,

The Necromancer  Wink
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 29):
OK, you are most often erudite, clear and respectful, but that does come across as a bit pretentious.

"Lemme explain" might have been a better choice, but then again, I'm guilty of poor word choices here too.

But gawd is on his side. Big grin
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 31):

You've often described Rush's music as "intensely political." Wouldn't you agree that Neil's lyrics are not so much political as philosophical?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):

I don't understand. Haven't I shown you that one can have a faith and not be a zealot? You seem to mock everything religious with the same zeal as fundamentalists attack those of other faiths or without one. That is the kind of thinking that Neil is against.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):
Tickets go on sale this Saturday for a 15 JUN 07 performance at the Sound Advice Amphitheatre(Palm Beach).

I will be there...

I will have to go to that show. The last time I saw them was 1986 Power Windows in Chicago.

BTW I will not call it Sound Advice--- It's name is CORAL SKY

Dan in Jupiter
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 33):
Haven't I shown you that one can have a faith and not be a zealot?

No.
Just the tone of your above post comes off as if your are speaking with higher authority and feel a need to "help you to see". That sounds a lot like, 'let me show you the light'. You are speaking with a lot of zeal and animosity. It's as if you are intolerant of those who don't share your set of beliefs. You interpret my comments about faith as an attack and it's not. Believe what you want to believe and listen to who ever you want to listen too.
I really don't care.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):
Just the tone of your above post comes off as if your are speaking with higher authority and feel a need to "help you to see". That sounds a lot like, 'let me show you the light'. You are speaking with a lot of zeal and animosity.

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying then, and I'm sorry that's my fault. Maybe its because you expect someone who has a faith to foist it on you. When I was saying "I'm trying to help you see.", that was a poor choice of words, but I meant it only in a academic sense. I don't try to convert, I don't proselytize. I try to educate, it comes from being a historian and having been a teacher. I know alot about history and I think its cool and I want to share what I know and how it relates to our lives right now. That I do have a passion for. Relating the past to our lives. Explaining how it is we got here.

Any animosity you read into my posts is a misreading. There are very few people who "get my Irish up" as CastleIsland put it, and you are not one of them. I did want to clear up some misconceptions you had. Like that there is only one song that Rush ever wrote that has an anti-collectivist viewpoint. Clearly that is not the case, it is a major theme in many Rush songs.

Second, as I said to CastleIsland in a PM, it has become clear to me that conservatives and liberals are talking past one another. Both sides have descended into tired cliches about the other. I want people who disagree with my viewpoint to understand my viewpoint. The short hand liberal view of a conservative is that they are:

Bigoted
Homophobic
Misogynistic
Zealous
Unsophisticated
Militaristic
Pig-headed
Greedy

and alot of others.

I'm trying to explain that a conservative philosophy isn't any of those things. There many be individuals who have these traits but they can be found on both sides. I'm counting on you being as open minded as you say you are, to see my posts not as an effort to convert, but to explain.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 36):
There are very few people who "get my Irish up" as CastleIsland put it, and you are not one of them.

That's my first time hearing that term. I am not Irish by the way.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 36):
The short hand liberal view of a conservative is that they are:

Bigoted
Homophobic
Misogynistic
Zealous
Unsophisticated
Militaristic
Pig-headed
Greedy

and alot of others.

That is not true of all conservatives. I have mentioned that already.

Neil's lyrics can be read as left and/or right. I mentioned that above also. No need for you to "try to educate" anyone either. You aren't bringing anything new to the discussion.
Were you trying to start a thread about RUSH or have another political thread that goes nowhere but centered around Neil Peart's lyrics?
Which one is is?
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 37):
You aren't bringing anything new to the discussion.
Were you trying to start a thread about RUSH or have another political thread that goes nowhere but centered around Neil Peart's lyrics?
Which one is is?

Whoah! now who's

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):
speaking with a lot of zeal and animosity.

You were the one who brought up Ayn Rand and the fact that conservatives identify with Neil's Lyrics. You made some assumptions that I attempted to dispel. I didn't bring politics into this discussion. In fact there has been no discussion of current politics in this thread. There has been an explanation of political philosophy and how it is reflected in Rush's music. Or more specific what lyrics in particular speak to those with a certain philosophy.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
You know it's only 1 song that he wrote that was anti-collectivist and suddenly so many conservatives think of him as some conservative. Keep in mind, Tom Sawyer and Freewill is equally anti-religion which is very liberal.

I'm trying to engage in a philosophical discussion of Neil's lyrics.

Superfly, you identify some of Neil's lyrics as being particularly liberal. I don't see it that way and after reading Roadshow, I don't think Neil sees it that way either. Granted he's no fan of President Bush. But I think he makes clear that he doesn't take kindly to extremism of any stripe. Which is why I think to characterize anything from Neil as "very" this or that (other than very good) is an incorrect interpretation of what he's trying to say.

For example in Roadshow Neil quotes Church signs from all over America. Sometimes he agrees with the message, and finds it profound, some he finds amusing, some scary. The point is that Neil has never been anti-religious, it's just not for him. The only thing he's against are people ramming it down his throat, like sending the Book of Moron to him as a gift. Which I think everyone ought to agree this kind of evangelizing is wrong, unfortunately some think its their duty. Those people are wrong.

Personally, I have listened to Rush music and Neil's lyrics and I've read Ayn Rand based on Rush's introduction and I've tried to the best of my ability to incorporate it into my life. I want to be free, I want to be left alone by government to live as I want to, and I will leave others alone to live as they want to (which is the essence of Ayn Rands thought). I have found that this is not incompatible with what my childhood religion preaches, so I feel no need to abandon it, but I don't try to convert anyone, not that my religion says you ought to anymore anyway. I have found that the political party that BEST (key word) represents this desire to live free from government intervention is the Republican party. It doesn't do it well, especially lately, but no other party out there comes closer, especially lately.

I hope this clears up how I think and feel about Rush, Neil's writing and Ayn Rand.
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Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 38):
You were the one who brought up Ayn Rand

Click on the 'show all' buttom and read reply #12. The first mention of Ayn Rand in this thread is from CastleIsland, the one member that can "get your Irish up".  Smile



OK fair enough. It sounds as though you have chose the path that's clear for you. To be honest with you, I have not read any of his books. Shame on me, I know.  Sad
What captured me the most about RUSH is Alex Lifeson as a guitarist. The man is a genious!
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
What captured me the most about RUSH is Alex Lifeson as a guitarist. The man is a genious!

Agreed.

Frankly, I think Rush is one of the few bands that has the whole package.

Great Musicianship from all three bandmembers.
They write interesting and challenging music.
The Lyrics match the music in it's brilliance.

And they put on a hell of a show to boot.

Total package.

With Rush I find there isn't one thing I don't LIKE in particular, just some that I prefer over others, but everything is so good. Just like with their albums.
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Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 40):
With Rush I find there isn't one thing I don't LIKE in particular, just some that I prefer over others, but everything is so good. Just like with their albums.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 


They will always be my favorite band!
Even there worst material is still damn good and blows away anything else new.

Looks like they are touring Europe on this tour as well.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
Looks like they are touring Europe on this tour as well.

Yes I wish they had toured more while I was working for UA. I would have tried to see them in Europe, that would ahve been a cool experience. cei la viv
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:42 am

I have way too manyLooking forward to see them in the next tour, and if they dont fly to Mexico Ill go to San Antonio, Houston or San Diego...

BTW the books written by Neal are awesome!!!

specially Ghost Rider.

They have way too many songs I like to choose an album but if I had to..

Id be torn beetwen, Power Windows and Hemispheres
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Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:45 am

OK, promise you wont laugh at the hair. This was taken 17 years ago.

Here is me, Geddy and Alex Lifeson



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/Superfly8track/SuperflyGeddy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/Superfly8track/SuperflyAlex.jpg


This was at the Music & Tennis Festival back in 1990.
Other artist were Steve Walsh & Phil Ehart of Kansas, Kevin Cronin of REO Speedwagon, members of Saga, Survivor, Weird Al Yankovic and a bunch of famous tennis stars.
Talk about bad name dropping!  Silly
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:59 am

Damn what a dream come true! I'd love to meet the guys. All three really but I know and understna dthe Neil would never.
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Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 45):
Damn what a dream come true! I'd love to meet the guys.

At the time I was a star struck teenager. It was a great feeling. Alex Lifeson is a fun person to meet. Very down to earth and funny person and easy going. Very my like myself. Geddy Lee was very standoffish at first. He has a very ironic sense of humor and very sarcastic.
I know a few people that have met Neil Peart. One friend of mine got a chance to meet all three of them back stage at there Radio City Hall show two years.
Neil Peart mentions her on page 109 in his book Roadshow or Ghost Rider. I forgot which book it was.
She'd kill me if she knew I forgot that detail. Big grin
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:07 am

It's Roadshow. LOL

It would be a treat to meet Neil. But I understand his discomfort.

He mentions a place he'd like to ride on his bike in Roadshow. Storm King. He mentioned it purely because he liked the name. It's the mountain between Cornwall NY and West Point. What I'd love to tell him is about Rt 218 along the Hudson, its a fanstastic road, especially for sports cars and motorcycles. I know he'd love that ride.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Superfly
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RE: Attn Rush Fans!

Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:59 am

Locals here have bought there tickets.
Since I'll be doing extensive travelling this year, I'll wait til the last minute to get my ticket. I haven't biught a ticket in advance since the Presto tour.

Now when is this new album Snakes On A Plane supposed to be released?
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