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KaiGywer
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San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:46 pm

SAN FRANCISCO -- City leaders approved a ban on plastic grocery bags after weeks of lobbying on both sides from environmentalists and a supermarket trade group. San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to adopt such a rule if Mayor Gavin Newsom signs the ban as expected.

The law, approved 10-1, requires large markets and drug stores to offer customers bags made of paper that can be recycled, plastic that breaks down easily enough to be made into compost, or reusable cloth.


Source: The Washington Post

What the hell is wrong with the politicians out there?
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miamiair
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
What the hell is wrong with the politicians out there?

It's California, things are different out there!
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 1):
It's California, things are different out there!

I like the comment further down in the article on how paper bags will cause more trees to be cut down Big grin
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
What the hell is wrong with the politicians out there?

I dunno, what do you think is wrong with them? I've carried two canvas bags to the store for eons. A couple of the stores even give me a nickel for each one I use instead of their bags.
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TSS
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:56 pm

The current plastic bags do take forever to biodegrade, they blow around easily and cause a big mess, and they are a danger to sea life. Also they're derived from petroleum, a non-renewable resource.
Brown paper bags biodgrade as soon as they get wet, and are made from farmed trees.

I'm not the "greenest" person in the world, but in this instance I agree that paper is better than plastic.
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
I've carried two canvas bags to the store for eons

There is no way that two canvas bags would fit my once a month grocery shopping.

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
I'm not the "greenest" person in the world, but in this instance I agree that paper is better than plastic.

Both has its benefits. Paper doubles as a garbage can, plastic is easier to carry  Smile
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 5):
plastic is easier to carry

 checkmark 

We do grocery shopping every other week. It's normally a pretty overloaded shopping cart by the time we get to the check-out lines. Packing in plastic allows me to load and unload the car fairly easily.

I agree that environmentally, paper is better than plastic, but like TSS, I'm not the "greenest" either. We do keep our plastic bags though, as they are great for cleaning the cat litter box, among other things.
 
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:07 am

This isn't dumb at all. Tens of thousands of plastic bags find their way into the San Francisco Bay and Pacific coastal areas every year and with the amount of endangered sea life in the area, it's worth giving some consideration to the impacts non-biodegradable items have on their lives.

Japan is currently discussing national measures to address plastic bag consumption as well. The use of plastic in this country is absolutely out of control. Many items are wrapped twice if not three times for absolutely no purpose other than presentation.
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
What the hell is wrong with the politicians out there?

Idunno...how 'bout banning, or doing something with, all the homeless crazies (as in certifiable) downtown?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
A couple of the stores even give me a nickel for each one I use instead of their bags.

Aldi?
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:11 am

Its California. Remember, just down the road in Milbrae, its illegal to smoke even in your own home.
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
We do keep our plastic bags though, as they are great for cleaning the cat litter box, among other things.

Exactly. I use plastic bags for swimclothes, garbage bags etc.
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Cadet57
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
they blow around easily and cause a big mess,

Well, if you threw the thing in a trashcan you would not have a problem.

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
nd they are a danger to sea life

Well, then maybe sea otters shouldent get their fish bagged in plastic. Or for that matter. Dont throw the bleedin bag into the ocean

My  twocents  I work in a grocery store and if this passed in MA, it would suck as plastic costs so much less compared to paper. We spend about 2-3x as much for paper bags then we do for plastic. We also only get about half the amount of paper bags compared to a case of plastic. My opinion-  thumbsdown 
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falstaff
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
The law, approved 10-1, requires large markets and drug stores to offer customers bags made of paper that can be recycled

Every grocery store I have ever been in has paper bags or plastic. The paper bags you usually have to ask for.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 5):
Paper doubles as a garbage can, plastic is easier to carry

Paper bags make good box wrapping for mailing. My cat likes to play in paper bags. Plastic bags are easy to carry, but I can cram more stuff in a paper bag. Also it keeps the beer colder.
I don't like the idea of banning anything, but promoting the use of paper bags is fine. It is amazing just how many bags some stores use. I went to the store Monday and got some fish (which was wrapped in paper), A bag of apples, a magazine, and a cucumber. Those items could easily have fit into one plastic bag, but they gave me four.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
We do keep our plastic bags though, as they are great for cleaning the cat litter box

That is what I do with mine, my parents and everyone else I know with cats do the same thing.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
Packing in plastic allows me to load and unload the car fairly easily.

Several stores around me have handles on their paper bags, which makes loading/unloading easier.
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D L X
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
I'm not the "greenest" person in the world, but in this instance I agree that paper is better than plastic.

You'd be interested then in why Whole Foods doesn't offer paper bags - they are actually WORSE for the environment.

scroll about half way down: http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/calendars/KTL.html
 
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
went to the store Monday and got some fish (which was wrapped in paper), A bag of apples, a magazine, and a cucumber. Those items could easily have fit into one plastic bag, but they gave me four.

A bit excessive. They way I would have done it is Fish in one bag, produce and mag in another. A item a bag is stupid.
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Aldi?

No idea what Aldi is. Safeway is one store which gives me bag credit.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 5):
There is no way that two canvas bags would fit my once a month grocery shopping.

Once a month? I do a Safeway delivery once a month, then go to the store occasionally through the month as I need other things, and take my canvas bags.  Smile
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
I don't like the idea of banning anything, but promoting the use of paper bags is fine

Exactly. Had they been promoting it, I would have been all for it.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
Several stores around me have handles on their paper bags, which makes loading/unloading easier.

The damn things break at the worst time possible. Not that plastic is much better, but at least it gives you a warning when it starts to stretch

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
I do a Safeway delivery once a month

We don't have that luxury here
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MaverickM11
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
You'd be interested then in why Whole Foods doesn't offer paper bags

They'll have to now!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
No idea what Aldi is.

It's sortuva Ryanair of supermarkets in the Northeast...I think you have to actually pay a nickle for a plastic bag.
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
It's sortuva Ryanair of supermarkets in the Northeast...I think you have to actually pay a nickle for a plastic bag.

So people are bitching that a law is passed to ban the bags, but no one's bitching they have to pay for bags? I'll stick with my canvas, thank you very much.  Smile
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Superfly
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:37 am

Aldi.
I remember going there as a kid buying there cheap Hostess pastries.

The board loves to draw attention to themselves. The city has more pressing issues that warrant more attention. A consistent MUNI schedule would be nice.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Idunno...how 'bout banning, or doing something with, all the homeless crazies (as in certifiable) downtown?

Running them out of downtown would mean running them in to my neighborhood. I'd them be downtown than crashing in to my backyard or front porch.
It would also be nice if other cities and states didn't give there undesirables one way Greyhound bus tickets and BART tickets to San Fransisco.
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MaverickM11
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
So people are bitching that a law is passed to ban the bags, but no one's bitching they have to pay for bags?

Well the latter is free markets at work...
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
It's sortuva Ryanair of supermarkets in the Northeast...I think you have to actually pay a nickle for a plastic bag.

We're getting an Aldis where I live, and they're building a huge warehouse 40 miles away. I'm guessing they'll be expanding quite a bit here.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
So people are bitching that a law is passed to ban the bags, but no one's bitching they have to pay for bags? I'll stick with my canvas, thank you very much.

Then start charging us for them. That's what I was used to in Norway. Plastic bags were 1 NOK ($0.16). I am all for saving the environment, but not through banning stuff.
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 21):
Then start charging us for them. That's what I was used to in Norway.

LOL, the first time I went to a supermarket in Europe, I paid for my groceries, then just stood there expecting the cashier to bag everything up. When she gave me this look of "why are you just standing there holding up the line?" I asked "what do I do with all this then?" She tossed a bag at me, then rang it up as an extra charge. I was flabbergasted to say the least.
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
LOL, the first time I went to a supermarket in Europe, I paid for my groceries, then just stood there expecting the cashier to bag everything up. When she gave me this look of "why are you just standing there holding up the line?" I asked "what do I do with all this then?" She tossed a bag at me, then rang it up as an extra charge. I was flabbergasted to say the least.

Haha, nice  Smile

One thing I like about plastic bags in Norway is that they are better quality than the thin junk we have here. Yeah, I have to pay for them, but I can also load them full without them breaking.
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Superfly
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:52 am

Keep in mind, people do re-use there plastic bags. Many use them to pick up there dog crap, line there waste paper baskets and many other uses. The plastic bag contains the stench of unwanted smells better than paper bags. Plastic bags aren't all they bad. They do have many uses after the grocery store run.
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
Keep in mind, people do re-use there plastic bags. Many use them to pick up there dog crap, line there waste paper baskets and many other uses. The plastic bag contains the stench of unwanted smells better than paper bags. Plastic bags aren't all they bad. They do have many uses after the grocery store run.

Yeah, the only thing I can think of that paper bags are better for....college apartment garbage cans  Smile They stand on the floor themselves without having to buy a wastebasket  Smile
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TSS
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
Well, if you threw the thing in a trashcan you would not have a problem.

The problem is that plastic bags blow around with the slightest of breezes and don't stay in the trashcan/dumpster unless it remains tightly closed.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
Don't throw the bleedin' bag into the ocean

Once picked up by those ever-so-slight breezes, plastic bags tend to fly around until they either snag on something or contact water. In coastal or even near-coastal areas, this represents a huge danger to fish and wildlife.
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Pope
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:07 am

IMO this is the wrong way to go about it. If the plastic carries with it an environmental cost that the citizens of SFO have to bear, the government should pass a consumption tax. I don't know what the appropriate rate is $0.50/bag, $1.00/bag, whatever. The cost would then be borne by the people who make the choice to use plastic and the money could go toward something productive. Of course, if you brought your own bags, there would be no cost. Stores could set up recycling bins where the "rich" were encouraged to bring in bags for the benefit of the poor. Liberals should be all over that.
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 27):
Stores could set up recycling bins where the "rich" were encouraged to bring in bags for the benefit of the poor

Like Walmart has?  Smile
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
What the hell is wrong with the politicians out there?

To tell you the truth, after living in San Francisco for more than 10 years, I'm glad that it's happening. I know the ban sounds ridiculous, however, over the years I became amazed at the amount of plastic bags people ask for. Every time I'm in a grocery store, people seem to ask for a triple or double bag even though they only have a few things bought. Then, these bags end up flying all over the city carried by the wind. I think it's a good opportunity to think of the environment and take measures to decrease the consumption of the bags.

Aeroflot777
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
I became amazed at the amount of plastic bags people ask for. Every time I'm in a grocery store, people seem to ask for a triple or double bag even though they only have a few things bought.

Easily solved like this:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 21):
Then start charging us for them. That's what I was used to in Norway. Plastic bags were 1 NOK ($0.16).

Not by banning them alltogether
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LH423
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
You'd be interested then in why Whole Foods doesn't offer paper bags

If you're referring to the the box at the bottom of the link you posted, did you actually READ it? Nothing on that page suggests that Whole Foods doen't offer paper bags. I know as of late-December the Whole Foods near my house in Providence still gave the choice of paper or plastic. It does say that every time you "Re-use your paper, plastic and other bags every time you shop at Whole Foods Market Kentlands and receive 5 cents back for every bag re-used." (Bold mine for emphasis)

At my old house we used paper because we'd use paper bags to carry the recycling down and when it got there we'd leave the paper bag to be recycled with the paper. In my new house, we only use plastic and most of them get thrown out because we don't have any use for them. The only time the get used is as a garbage bag for the washroom. And even that bag gets thrown away eventually. I'd love to have reusable, canvas sacks but unfortunately I walk to the grocery store where I live and unless I want to go every 3 days or so, I need to carry up to 8 bags back to my house. I don't have the money to be buying 8 canvas sacks that may not always be used at once. It's a double-edged sword. The desire to be green but not having the appropriate methods. Anyway, I figure the fact that I walk makes me a little greener. Though I do hate throwing away plastic bags.

LH423
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rineanna
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:37 am

We have had a plastic bag levy since 2002, and it's been a major success. Yes there was the initial reservations about the move, but everyone just bought the bigger, and stronger, canvas bags which just cost an initial €1/€2 and last for years on end.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2205419.stm
 
767Lover
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:38 am

Now twice the amount of waste will go to the landfill because it eliminates the opportuntiy to reuse plastic bags for other means.

Every plastic bag I get at the supermarket is reused at least once. It is either used as a liner for the kitchen wastebasket (which is a receptable for messy/damp things so paper bags won't work) or it is reused as a poop bag for the dog (again, not possible with paper.)

And how much oil will be used to produce all these extra bags that will be needed because reusable plastic ones aren't available anymore?
 
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
We do keep our plastic bags though, as they are great for cleaning the cat litter box, among other things.

I do the same, and as I was tossing it the other morning, it dawned on me, once I kick off, a good share of what I will leave behind me is cat poop and litter wrapped in plastic. I'd love to hear the discussion at the dig site 2000 years from now.
"We're still trying to determine how the lived, but from the volume of these items we've found, its become apparent that early 21st century Americans revered cat feces. The fact that they sealed it in plastic to preserve it attests to its value!" Big grin

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
Well, if you threw the thing in a trashcan you would not have a problem.

Not true - one of the saddest sights in the world is the landfill on Maui. Not five minutes from the beaches at Kihei, there is a huge swath of land that can't be utilized because the plastic bags blowing out of the landfill cover and smother everything. You think of Maui as such a paradise, then you drive through this area and its just unreal.

I'm really wondering when all the country's cities solved all of their problems that they are now able to focus on plastic bag bans, fois gras and other such pressing issues to modern life.
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Superfly
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
I became amazed at the amount of plastic bags people ask for. Every time I'm in a grocery store, people seem to ask for a triple or double bag even though they only have a few things bought.

That is sometimes neccesary if you have a glass item/fragile or an item with sharp edges and you're carrying it on the bus.
If I am picking up a $45.00 bottle of Stolichnaya Vodka on my way home from work, I will certainly get 3 plastic bags.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
I think it's a good opportunity to think of the environment and take measures to decrease the consumption of the bags.

That may be asking too much at this site.  Wink
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767Lover
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 34):
its become apparent that early 21st century Americans revered cat feces. The fact that they sealed it in plastic to preserve it attests to its value!"

LOL!!!! So true, except in my case it's dog poop.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
It's sortuva Ryanair of supermarkets in the Northeast...I think you have to actually pay a nickle for a plastic bag.

Northeast? They're all over Chicago, and there was even one in Greenville, SC.

I remember hearing that at least one Aldi near Chicago was selling Grade D meat...
 
trav110
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):

Well, if you threw the thing in a trashcan you would not have a problem.

And then, when the trash eventually finds it's way to a landfill, it'll be free to blow right into the Bay.


Good call, SF.
 
Emirates029
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:51 am

They should do the same in the UK. If not banning, then charging something like £5 per plastic bag.
 
trav110
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Emirates029 (Reply 39):
If not banning, then charging something like £5 per plastic bag.

I believe IKEA does this, they charge .05 per plastic bag you use, and they intend to get rid of their use completely at some point in the future.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Trav110 (Reply 38):
And then, when the trash eventually finds it's way to a landfill

The landfill by where I'm from in Norway grinds everything (except metal and glass) up and makes pellets. This is then sold to a papermill where they use it as fuel for their ovens.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
large markets and drug stores to offer customers bags made of paper that can be recycled

THIS is the general thing in the retail-chains (grocery-shops etc) here around. While bookshops etc still have the plastic-bags. And there of course is a fee on each shopping bag, usually CHF -.20 = US$ -.15 .
-

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 5):
once a month grocery shopping.

and you pack your stuff into plastic-bags ? instead of into more practical hardpaper-bags ?
-

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Aldi?
-
No idea what Aldi is.

-
http://aldi.us/
-

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 33):




Quoting 767Lover (Reply 33):
Every plastic bag I get at the supermarket is reused at least once.

-
you can use the paper-bags several times and even for various purposes
-
 
D L X
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RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 31):
If you're referring to the the box at the bottom of the link you posted, did you actually READ it? Nothing on that page suggests that Whole Foods doen't offer paper bags.

I am referring to the box at the bottom. I'll also add that I live next to a Whole Foods, so I shop there almost daily. They do not offer paper bags, but rather only use smal paper bags for glass bottles and hot or frozen food. They also have signs around the store explaining why they do not offer consumers a choice. I was not aware that this wasn't the practice everywhere. Perhaps where you were, they are required by law to offer a choice?

Environmental problems with Canvas:
you have to wash them. Washing cloth wastes water.

Environmental problems with Paper:
requires nearly 4 times as much energy to make as plastic,
requires more energy to recycle than plastic
requires cutting down trees

Structural problems with Canvas:
washing degrades strength

Structural problems with Paper:
will not survive getting wet
even light use degrades strength (not very reusable)

Environmental problems with Plastic:
not biodegradable
its light weight makes it airborne easily in open air dumps

Structural problems with Plastic:
cannot support very heavy items without stretching, and possibly breaking

There is no perfect bag, but of the three, I still think Plastic is the best. One more reason I hate SF.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):

you can use the paper-bags several times and even for various purposes
-

Actually, I have several paper bags that I have saved and have not found a suitable use for. however I can find several uses for the plastic bags.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 44):
Actually, I have several paper bags that I have saved and have not found a suitable use for

Use them to put recyclable newspaper in. In fact, the company that does our weekly recycling route prefers newspaper to be placed in old paper grocery bags.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
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n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
My twocents I work in a grocery store and if this passed in MA, it would suck as plastic costs so much less compared to paper. We spend about 2-3x as much for paper bags then we do for plastic. We also only get about half the amount of paper bags compared to a case of plastic. My opinion- thumbsdown

The solution is to charge (and a lot) for bags--say at least $.25 a bag.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
LOL, the first time I went to a supermarket in Europe, I paid for my groceries, then just stood there expecting the cashier to bag everything up. When she gave me this look of "why are you just standing there holding up the line?" I asked "what do I do with all this then?" She tossed a bag at me, then rang it up as an extra charge. I was flabbergasted to say the least.

And that's just the way it should be I think...

Quoting Pope (Reply 27):
MO this is the wrong way to go about it. If the plastic carries with it an environmental cost that the citizens of SFO have to bear, the government should pass a consumption tax. I don't know what the appropriate rate is $0.50/bag, $1.00/bag, whatever. The cost would then be borne by the people who make the choice to use plastic and the money could go toward something productive. Of course, if you brought your own bags, there would be no cost. Stores could set up recycling bins where the "rich" were encouraged to bring in bags for the benefit of the poor. Liberals should be all over that.

I'm all over that, though I prefer a direct purchase charge to a tax.

Quoting D L X (Reply 43):
Environmental problems with Canvas:
you have to wash them. Washing cloth wastes water.

Hmmm. You really don't have to wash canvas bags very often. And throwing them in the washing machine with another load once every few months uses WAY less energy than manufacturing plastic bags...Also, you've to wash the bag a hell of a lot of times before it became anywhere near as "weak" as a paper OR plastic bag.

Personally, I've used a giant back pack for my shopping for years. It holds about ten plastic bags worth of stuff, and I can just throw the whole thing on my back. And if I need extra bags, I bring back plastic bags I've already used... I've NEVER had to wash the backpack, and it is 12 years old...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
ITGeek
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:00 am

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
No idea what Aldi is

ALDI keeps it cheap so shoppers can, too. How has discount food retailer ALDI Group become one of the world's biggest grocery chains, running about 7,500 stores worldwide? By offering deeply discounted prices on about 700 popular food items (a typical grocery store has 25,000). No frills ALDI (short for "Albrecht Discounts") buys cheap land mostly on city outskirts, builds cheap warehouses, keeps a tiny staff, and carries mostly private-label items, displaying them on pallets rather than shelves. ALDI has 800-plus stores in 26 US states, but Germany (where ALDI has a 40% share of the grocery market) accounts for about two-thirds of sales. Brothers and co-founders Theo and Karl Albrecht own the company.

source: http://www.hoovers.com/aldi/--ID__54910--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml

Interestingly, Trader Joes is owned by a family trust that Theo Albrecht created for his sons.

Other links:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_17/b3880010.htm

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/787P.html
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt
 
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falstaff
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 43):
Environmental problems with Plastic:
not biodegradable
its light weight makes it airborne easily in open air dumps

Not to mention by all the dead beats who leave them all over town. I had two plastic bags stuck in my tree for a couple of months. I was not planning on climbing up there to get them out. They eventually blew away and probably got stuck in someone elses tree.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 37):
remember hearing that at least one Aldi near Chicago was selling Grade D meat...

I doubt that very much. Aldi's quality is very high. You would be amazed at the quality control and process auditing Aldi does for its private label brands. For example for batteries, like AAs, Aldi will not except an inferior grade private label battery. Their private label is the same as regular Energizers. Most stores that use Eveready/Energizer for private label get a lessor grade of battery, usually 4-5 year old technology. The people from Aldi come to inspect the Eveready plant where the batteries are made and packaged. The Warehouses are also inspected, as well as a sample of the trucks delivering those batteries to Aldi's warehouses. This is a yearly process that is done by no other grocery chain. Other stores may do this kind of thing for food products, but not for batteries. If they take that kind of care with batteries they should be handling food even better. My dad is retired from Eveready battery and he had a number of positions retiring as regional sales director, for 26 midwestern states. I got the Aldi info from him and his friend Ed who is a director of private label and industrial sales at Eveready/Energizer.

Every product I have bought at Aldi was of good quality. I enjoy their beers.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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Aeroflot777
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: San Francisco Passes Plastic-Bag Ban

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 30):

Easily solved like this:

I agree, that's what Russia does, and I like the system a lot. Most people come with their muti-use bags and it becomes more efficient for both the store and the shopper.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):

That may be asking too much at this site.

Lol, I know!

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