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disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:44 pm

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 46):
But ya, the bible, in some form or another, is already taught in many Texas schools. For example, last year (11th grade), we were taught the old testament out of a bible study book.

You're joking. I went to Dallas schools K-12 and we never cracked open a bible or bible study book. The only time it was even mentioned was when my AP English teacher suggested that we read it in order to better understand biblical references in literature. That's it.

I would be incandescent with rage if a child of mine was being taught the bible in a public school. It is NOT THEIR JOB. Teach, don't preach.
 
oly720man
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
Although that is a good idea, they would be able to do every religion but Christianity because someone will say their child is being taught Christianity, and they don't like it.

A while ago I remember reading that some concerned parent in the US didn't want his child to learn French because Jesus spoke English.

As far as religion goes I'd have to say that you'd have to be particularly insecure in your beliefs or completely blinkered/brainwashed to not want to hear about other religions, but I'm not religious so it's more general interest for me not belief. Do people believe they'll be contaminated somehow or by being told about another religion they'll be acknowledging the legitimacy of something that their beliefs deem wrong?
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 51):
A while ago I remember reading that some concerned parent in the US didn't want his child to learn French because Jesus spoke English.

As far as religion goes I'd have to say that you'd have to be particularly insecure in your beliefs or completely blinkered/brainwashed to not want to hear about other religions, but I'm not religious so it's more general interest for me not belief. Do people believe they'll be contaminated somehow or by being told about another religion they'll be acknowledging the legitimacy of something that their beliefs deem wrong?

What is important for people to understand is this is yet another attempt at introducing religion through the backdoor in Texas schools. UK schools have mandatory assemblies and mandatory RE, and state-funded religious schools. I'm not sure British people can ever quite grasp the objections people might have to something like this. It's just a different culture.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:48 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
and puts foreign language as an enrichment class instead of the foundation class that it should be.

Is Spanish considered a foreign language in Texas?  Wink  duck 

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 37):
I once saw a plain English Bible. And Fred said to his buddies, "Hey man, don't be killing people."

 rotfl 

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 35):
Perhaps a class that encompasses all would be the best solution. Then it truely would be a humanities class.

Just like I mentioned earlier?  Wink

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 38):
Well again, how would the average US family respond to: Hey Ma and Dad, we studied Islam today?

Well, then Ma and Dad need to broaden their horizons, and maybe through time the next generation won't be as closed minded as the current/prior generations.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 44):
That's (one of) the points of public education - to dispel the sort of ignorance that would lead to "Ma and Dad" getting upset about such things. I also think this class would best be suited to a high school environment where students have developed some degree of independence in their educational choices. If parents are so close-minded that they would deny their child the chance to learn more about the world around him, then in my opinion they are harming their own child.

 checkmark 

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 45):
But there are still a decent number of parents, at least where I live, that feel any exposure to religions other than christianity is heathenism.

Like this?

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 50):
I would be incandescent with rage if a child of mine was being taught the bible in a public school. It is NOT THEIR JOB. Teach, don't preach.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 53):
Like this?

I'm not a Christian; I'm an atheist. I strongly believe it is not the public education system's job to teach children about religion and few teachers, if any, are able to separate talking about the bible from witnessing or preaching. It happens all the time and this just makes it so easy for them to get away with it. Religious upbringing is the family's responsibility, not the school's.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 54):
I'm not a Christian; I'm an atheist. I strongly believe it is not the public education system's job to teach children about religion and few teachers, if any, are able to separate talking about the bible from witnessing or preaching. It happens all the time and this just makes it so easy for them to get away with it. Religious upbringing is the family's responsibility, not the school's.

I agree that it is your responsibility to teach your kids about your religion (or lack thereof) and why you believe this is the right way. The school, however, (if done properly of course...) will just broaden the kids' horizons and teach them that there are more ways of living out there than what they learn at home. I had to learn about all the major religions in religion class back in Norway, even though Norway has a state church. I'm personally not a Christian, but I still believe it is important to learn about the different religions of the world to understand why people from other places may act like they do.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 55):
I agree that it is your responsibility to teach your kids about your religion (or lack thereof) and why you believe this is the right way. The school, however, (if done properly of course...) will just broaden the kids' horizons and teach them that there are more ways of living out there than what they learn at home. I had to learn about all the major religions in religion class back in Norway, even though Norway has a state church. I'm personally not a Christian, but I still believe it is important to learn about the different religions of the world to understand why people from other places may act like they do.

We learned about world religions in my world history class; we are not as ignorant as people think we are.

Also, there is a massive difference between mandatory bible classes in public schools and comparative religion classes. Comparative religion classes, as long as they were not mandatory, MIGHT pass constitutional muster. A mandatory bible class never would, so it's a moot point anyway.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 48):
...i.e. you can be executed at 18 for something you did as a 12 year-old

Wouldn't work even if they did pass it. SCOTUS says no-no to executing someone for a crime committed while a minor. SCOTUS pwns Tx

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 50):
You're joking.

I think he must have gone to a private school, Jesuit style.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 53):
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 38):
Well again, how would the average US family respond to: Hey Ma and Dad, we studied Islam today?

Well, then Ma and Dad need to broaden their horizons, and maybe through time the next generation won't be as closed minded as the current/prior generations.

No question about it. All I'm saying is that I suspect it would be damn close to impossible to effect this change broadly.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:36 am

I saw a news report on the growth of elective High School classes on the Bible. I would prefer that the class be a broader one as to the history of faith. It should not only discuss Protestant Christianity, but Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Christian, Jewish, most importantly Islam as well as the faiths of South Asia, Native American faiths as well as atheists.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:32 am

"




The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights. It prohibits the federal legislature from making laws that establish a state religion or prefer a certain religion (the "Establishment Clause"), prohibit free exercise of religion (the "Free Exercise Clause"), infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to assemble peaceably, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Although the First Amendment only explicitly prohibits the named rights from being abridged by laws made by Congress, the courts have interpreted it as applying more broadly. As the first sentence in the body of the Constitution reserves all law-making ("legislative") authority to Congress, the courts have held that the First Amendment's terms also extend to the executive and judicial branches. Additionally, in the 20th century the Supreme Court has held that the Due Process clause of the 1868 Fourteenth Amendment "incorporates" the limitations of the First Amendment to also restrict the states.

"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Falcon84
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 46):
I don't see a problem with requiring schools to offer religious studies - especially ones dealing with the Bible, as it refers to the majority of the religious in this country.

Most people fled to this country, NWA742, because of religious persecution-because they didn't practice the "majority" religion of a nation. many fled to be free FROM the majority religion, and to be able to worship, or not worship, as it was, without fear of persecution.

Now, you want us to sanction a "majority" religious belief in schools, which is specifically against the Constitution that the state will not sanction nor support any religion, or create a religion. In other words, it doesn't matter what the majority faith might be, the state will not give sanction to that religion over others.

It won't fly with SCOTUS, not now, not ever, as it is clearly written in our Constitution.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 47):
We teach the fiction of evolution in science, why not use the Bible in schools.

Evolution isn't fiction to most people. I believe we have evolved, just as other species have evolved. I also am not against the idea that God did create a species of man. Why can't both have happened? In other words, to you, evolution is fiction. To many it is the logical way we have developed.

But again, evolution isn't a religion. It's a scientific method. The Bible is the foundation of religion, and the Constitution forbids the sanctioning of a specific faith.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 57):
Wouldn't work even if they did pass it. SCOTUS says no-no to executing someone for a crime committed while a minor. SCOTUS pwns Tx

I know. Thank goodness (sometimes) for the SCOTUS.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 27):
Or, if one choose, freedom FROM religion.

This course will be offered as an elective, people will still have that option.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 38):
Well again, how would the average US family respond to: Hey Ma and Dad, we studied Islam today?

We covered Islam (both Sunni and Shiite) in my Humanities my Senior year of high school, along with other world religions including Judaism, Shinto, Hinduim and a few others. In fact, that was our major project for the semester. Groups of 4 or 5 each had one religion to research and present on.

In my group, we brought in the Turkish rug my dad bought in Turkey during a tour over there and used it as a "paryer rug" for our presentation. We also had people face "East" towards Mecca during part of presentation and recite a few Islam prayers. A few people in the class chose not to participate but no one went ape-shit, and this was in Central-Georgia (Deep in the hear of the Bible belt, where there's a Baptist church on every street corner.  wink  )
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 61):
Most people fled to this country, NWA742, because of religious persecution-because they didn't practice the "majority" religion of a nation. many fled to be free FROM the majority religion, and to be able to worship, or not worship, as it was, without fear of persecution.

Yes, they saw their persecutors oppressing them, and they thought, "Damn, how can we get in on some of that action?" So they came over here and promptly paid it forward to... well, just about everyone else. Big grin
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:43 pm

Speaking as an atheist, here in Europe history, at least up the 18th century, has been so much influenced by the Christian churches that one needs to know the basics to understand history (the end of the Roman empire, the founding of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, the split between Roman-Catholicism and the Orthodox churches, the argument between emperor Henry IV with the Pope about who is allowed to ordain bishops, the bishop-electors in Germany, the 100 year war, the Popes and counter-Popes, the crusades, the reformation (Martin Luther, Calvin, Hus, King Henry VIII, Queen Mary of England, etc.), the 30 year war, the inquisition, colonialism, but also later, starting during the Renaissance, the advance of science and reason. Many political arguments, even today (e.g. Northern Ireland) can only be understood if there is some knowledge about the doctrine of the various Christian branches.
This goes for Europe. If one goes further abroad, e.g. the Middle East, Islam becomes important, not to forget the important role played by the Jewish minority in Europe over centuries. To understand the history of South and east Asia, one needs a basic understanding about the philosophies of Bhuddism, Hinduism and Shintoism.

I think, even though I'm an atheist, that knowledge about religions from a historical and philosphical point of view is important and should be mandatory, but it should not become a class of religious indoctrination in one religion to the exclusion of others.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 1):
Well, we teach English lit, and that's fiction, so why not?

So, would teaching the Bible be a study in Hebraic and Koine Greek lit?

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 19):
We'll get to the other side the same way you do.

Do you know which way about which you're speaking?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 38):
In good theory, they all represent the one truth. Many pths to the same summit.

How?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 43):
It boggles my mind that comparative religion isn't a mandatory part of U.S. curriculum.

It could be because individual teachers (all having different beliefs) would possibly present their own personal slant on the issue.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:53 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 66):
It could be because individual teachers (all having different beliefs) would possibly present their own personal slant on the issue.

-R

ITA. It would be very difficult to teach comparative religion in US schools without an avalanche of lawsuits every year. Teachers are only human and like anyone else, some of them have very strong personal religious beliefs. It would be difficult for them to teach a class like that without injecting their own personal feelings into it. Even if they did manage it, some particularly sensitive students, either fundamentalist Christians or members of minority religions, would inevitably feel hard done by due to the content or presentation of the class.

At the high school level it would be so difficult to accomplish this that most districts and states simply don't bother; lawsuits cost a lot of money and most districts are almost criminally underfunded. I would have no objection to a comparative religion class becoming part of the public university 'core' requirements in Texas, but only a fraction (probably less than 40%) of Texas students enroll at a four-year university.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 25):
it's politically incorrect to not be Christian in this Country.

::blink:: I can't believe this line went by without being challenged by anyone. There are some areas where that may be true, but it's certainly not a universal truth.
International Homo of Mystery
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:21 pm

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 25):
not to mention that it's politically incorrect to not be Christian in this Country.

Huh????????? I think you'll find that many Christians believe the opposite, i.e. it's politically incorrect to be a Christian.

In any case, everybody hates us (the atheists). I think we win the contest for most hated god/flying spaghetti monster beliefs.
 
thetuna
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:26 pm

I have noticed we are to damn afraid to step on some ones foot. You are going to rustle some feathers no matter what courses you add to a schools curriculum. YOU CAN NOT ACCOMMODATE EVERY ONE! Just add the damn course and forget about what the whiny libs say.  cry   cry   white 

 smirk 

Thank YOU , The Tuna approves this message!
He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting Thetuna (Reply 70):
Just add the damn course and forget about what the whiny libs say.

Having grown up in "whiny lib" country, I can assure you, my high school offered Bible Lit as an elective, and no one had a heart attack over it. You took it if you wanted, didn't if you didn't. It was no big deal.
International Homo of Mystery
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:31 pm

Quoting Thetuna (Reply 70):
I have noticed we are to damn afraid to step on some ones foot. You are going to rustle some feathers no matter what courses you add to a schools curriculum. YOU CAN NOT ACCOMMODATE EVERY ONE! Just add the damn course and forget about what the whiny libs say.



Thank YOU , The Tuna approves this message!

It doesn't work that way in the US, Tuna. Your country does not have a tradition of separation of church and state, and over here they have mandatory assemblies, RE, and state-funded religious schools. NONE of that exists in public schools in the US...they're all unconstitutional. Requiring students to study the bible would not pass constitutional muster, and to be honest I don't think whoever proposed it was actually serious about it. He probably did it to please his constituents; campaigning for the '08 elections has already begun.

If they ever brought in a law like that while my child was in school, I'd sue all the way to the Supreme Court to have it thrown out.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:16 pm

Teaching about Religion


"

Pluralism is the condition of society in which numerous
distinct ethnic, religious, or cultural groups coexist amiably
within one nation as fellow citizens.

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Pluralism requires more than acknowledging or celebrating diversity. The ideal of pluralism is a hopeful one for educators in the United States. Our growing public heterogeneity gives reason to search for common ground as we prepare the citizenry of the future.

What do all our nation’s citizens have in common? Certainly not religion! In fact, one state board of education has stated: "Few issues have stirred greater controversy in Americans’ attitudes toward public education than the role of religion and values in public schools." History-Social Science Framework for California Public Schools, 1997 Updated Edition, (page 137).

http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org.../religious_pluralism.htmThroughout history religious differences have been inordinately divisive. Improved cognizance of shared universals, on the other hand, can bring about mutual respect and empathy. Accentuating and teaching about commonality as well as difference is a must for educational endeavors that advance hope for pluralism as it applies to the religion domain. Educators who wish to advance youngster’s understanding about religion by emphasizing human commonality will probably find it helpful if they themselves have understanding of these two important concepts:

1. ultimate concerns (everybody has them), and
2. worldview (everyone has his/her own).

David Shiman, author of The Prejudice Book (published by the Anti-Defamation League, 1994), eloquently argues for teacher dedication to nourishing the pluralistic ideal, as follows:
While we should not expect to change the entire world, we can influence the development of students’ social values and offer students alternative ways of thinking and acting. And we should not shy away from trying to do so.
Although we might not want to impose our personal values on students, we must keep in mind that our schools are charged with the task of engendering democratic values, promoting egalitarian principles, and fostering humane relationships.
If we cherish these goals, we have a responsibility to communicate this to our students through the curriculum we choose and the issues we ask them to consider. By affirming this through our instruction, we will move a little bit closer to becoming a society where all our citizens are treated with respect and dignity and we live together as brothers and sisters. (p. 5)

"
http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:30 pm

I am totally against this Bill. Religious classes do not belong in public schools. This goes against the secular government of the United States. So what if kids are Bible-Retarded, Its not the public schools responsibility to educate them about the Bible.

-Delta767300ER
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter):
I think I'm for this bill.

Kids are Bible retarded nowadays.

NO WAY!

I'm a religious person. I'm ok with some voluntary prayer in school. I know more prayer goes on in school before a test that politicians ever realize.

But schools have NO business teaching the Bible. If you want your kid to learn the Bible you send them to a Bible school yourself. You send them to private school. You home school them. You send them to CCD or bible study or whatever. Or SHOCKER you read it to your kids yourself.

The Bible should NOT be taught at any level of public school except college. I make this exception because at that level you can use the Bible as a historical source to learn about early Christianity. But on the College level students can be taught to differentiate the Bible's religious use and historical use.

School is NOT the place to proselytize any version of Christianity.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
School is NOT the place to proselytize any version of Christianity.

Or any other religion for that matter. Excellent post UAL.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 76):
Or any other religion for that matter.

True enough. I though of adding that but it seemed self explanatory after my previous diatribe.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
102IAHexpress
Topic Author
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
schools have NO business teaching the Bible. If you want your kid to learn the Bible you send them to a Bible school yourself. You send them to private school. You home school them. You send them to CCD or bible study or whatever. Or SHOCKER you read it to your kids yourself.

I disagree.

Using that logic, the only way a child should learn about computer systems, should be via a trade school, a foreign language via a language school, sports or physical health via a private gym or preparing food via culinary institute, etc…
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 78):
Using that logic, the only way a child should learn about computer systems, should be via a trade school, a foreign language via a language school, sports or physical health via a private gym or preparing food via culinary institute, etc…

If public schools are going to teach the Bible which version are you going to teach?

Are you prepared for your children to be taught the Catholic version of the Bible?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Slovacek747
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:35 am

I currently work for a representative at the Texas State Capitol and I couldn't even begin to tell you how many consituent letters we have received in the past couple of days SUPPORTING this bill. Very few have opposed it (I haven't seen one), but I can tell you a big majority are all for it and therefore should be passed since a majority want it. Have a good one yall.

Slovacek747
 
TedTAce
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 78):
Using that logic, the only way a child should learn about computer systems, should be via a trade school, a foreign language via a language school, sports or physical health via a private gym or preparing food via culinary institute, etc

You call that "logic"? The subjects you are talking about have nothing to do with religion or a belief system. What ambiguity is there about how to turn a damned computer on? Oh Johny, if you turn the power switch on with your toes you are going to be electrocuted and you will burn in hell.  Yeah sure
Your argument is the very embodiment of what is wrong with religion. It's got to be your way and you don't CARE what others think. Thanks for making us think YOUR way. Do you want your lemmings to start executing non-believers?
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TACAA320
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 80):
Very few have opposed it (I haven't seen one), but I can tell you a big majority are all for it and therefore should be passed since a majority want it.

Majorities always rules.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:39 am

102IAHexpress,

I'm waiting for an answer.

Would you like to have a Catholic Priest teach your kids from the Catholic version of the Bible?

Would you like a Moron Elder come in and teach about the Mormon version of the Bible and the Book of Moron?

We'd like to know.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
cfalk
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 74):
I am totally against this Bill. Religious classes do not belong in public schools. This goes against the secular government of the United States. So what if kids are Bible-Retarded, Its not the public schools responsibility to educate them about the Bible.

I don't see what the problem is for some people to understand that it might be a good thing to learn a little about texts that are a prime motivator for billions of people, whether it's the Bible or the Koran or whatever. Teaching about religion in public school should be a requirement. Knowledge is not a bad thing.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 83):
Would you like to have a Catholic Priest teach your kids from the Catholic version of the Bible?

Would you like a Moron Elder come in and teach about the Mormon version of the Bible and the Book of Moron?

Why not?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 83):
a Moron Elder

Typo or Freudian slip? Big grin

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 80):
I can tell you a big majority are all for it and therefore should be passed since a majority want it.

Absolutely not! The whole point of the First Amendment is to protect the minority from the majority. I don't care if all but one person in Texas supports this bill; the one person left has the right not to have their child receive a form of religious indoctrination in school.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 83):

Would you like to have a Catholic Priest teach your kids from the Catholic version of the Bible?

I had several during eleven years and I will never regret that.
So [ in my case ] the answer is a proudly YES.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
cfalk
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 85):
the one person left has the right not to have their child receive a form of religious indoctrination in school.

Why do you equate education with indoctrination?

The class is intended to teach kids about various religions in the world (paying particular attention to Christianinty, since that is the major cultural base in the US), explaining what they believe and where those beliefs came from. How is that harmful?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 87):
The class is intended to teach kids about various religions in the world (paying particular attention to Christianinty, since that is the major cultural base in the US), explaining what they believe and where those beliefs came from. How is that harmful?

I'm not talking about a theoretical world religions course covering most or all major religions as a high school elective. That's just fine in my book. The course this law proposes, although it doesn't forbid bringing in texts from other cultures, is clearly focused on the Old and New Testaments and the societies that produced them; that is, Judeo-Christian culture. This exclusivity crosses the line between unbiased education and biased indoctrination. And I would feel the same way if the course was exclusively about the Qu'ran, or the Dhammapada, or any other religious text.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 85):
Typo or Freudian slip?

Typo. My apologies to all the morons..sorry Mormons out there. Big grin

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 86):
I had several during eleven years and I will never regret that.

I don't doubt it. I had Christian Brothers teaching me. However, the question was aimed at 102IAHexpress, because I suspect he, as a Texan, is probably a Protestant. So I think he would have a problem with this law, all of a sudden, if it wasn't the King James Bible that was going to be taught.

What if this law made every school in Texas a Catholic school? Catholic Schools teach the Bible, they have hundreds of years of education experience. What if this law just converted all the public schools to a Catholic school curriculum? Catholic schools are very successful they send the majority of their students on to college. What do you say 102IAHexpress, is this a good idea too?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
jaysit
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:27 am

I am totally for this bill.

Clearly, there is a dearth of Churches in Texas and people know nothing about Jesus. Plus, if they don't teach this stuff in school how will folks know what to wear for the rapture? I mean even right now, Texans walk around in the worst polyester-cotton ensembles. Don't they know that wearing that mixed fabric crap would be a no-no on the Rapture Express?

Thus, I support this bill. Texans need more God.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
18161
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:33 am

I think Bible classes should not be made compulsory in Public Schools. Public schools cater to the need of Public and not just Christians.

That's why I send my kids to a Catholic school and I don't need to worry about the version of the Bible also  Smile
 
TACAA320
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
What if this law made every school in Texas a Catholic school?

Does the Bill [project of] expressly mention that?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 92):
Does the Bill [project of] expressly mention that?

No, it doesn't.

But the effect would be to turn every Texas public school into a Protestant School.

I tried to get IAHexpress to admit he wouldn't be in favor of kids being taught the Catholic bible. Because then I'd have the opportunity to ask him why. But since he bailed I won't get the opportunity.

How can he be in favor of forcing kids who are Catholic and Jewish and every other religion, or lack there of, under the sun to read the bible in public school, and not be in favor of his kids learning Catholicism, or Judaism or Islam etc.

The point was that the Constitution prohibits a State sponsored religion.

The founders wisely decided that people should be free to worship or not in their own way with no interference from government.

Once government begins to promote one faith, by definition they are interfering with the freedom of people to practice other faiths or not to practice anything.

Religious displays at Christmas, they are fine. It's just as easy to put up a menorah as it is to put up a nativity scene. And a simple DISPLAY does not PROMOTE. You can ignore it if you like. But mandating Bible study is another matter. A class on the Bible is proselytizing.

I'm a religious person. I've had a religious education. I'm a conservative.

But this bill goes against the Constitution, and I will support the ACLU 100% in fighting this is if it ever gets passed.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
102IAHexpress
Topic Author
Posts: 927
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 83):
Would you like to have a Catholic Priest teach your kids from the Catholic version of the Bible?

Would you like a Moron Elder come in and teach about the Mormon version of the Bible and the Book of Moron?

We'd like to know.

You’re reading too much into the proposed bill. We’re not talking about turning the local high school into a seminary but rather teach an elective, a survey-course really, so it wouldn’t be necessary to teach from one particular bible at the expense of excluding other bibles because there would be no time to cover that much material. Think of it as an intro course that highlights the major scriptures of the Old and New Testament and their relevance with western history and literature and also highlights the different branches of Christianity.

In the long term I would like to see a broad religious studies program at the local high school that would offer intro courses to Islam, Judaism, and eastern faiths and intermediate courses in the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant faiths.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
I suspect he, as a Texan, is probably a Protestant.

I’m Catholic by the way. And I Attended a Catholic university where most of the theology department is made up of priests, nuns, and Catholic scholars, but there are also Jews, Muslims and Buddhists on staff who teach theology courses in respect to their particular faiths. I took some of the non-Catholic courses and I learned a lot.
Hopefully our high school students will have an opportunity to learn about different faiths as well, instead of relying on their parents and wikipedia.
 
texan
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 5):
If they taught about the history of the Bible, then it might be OK. But, if they teach the content of the Bible, then it would be illegal.

Either way, enough people would see it as teaching religion in public schools to kill it before it took its first steps.

Depends. With the current makeup of the court, it would be a 5-4 vote. We just don't know which way the 5-4 would go. Contrary to popular belief, Alito actually would be the likely swing vote on this issue as he is not as much in favor of accomodating religion as Scalia, Roberts, etc. The way the statute is worded, it could just pass muster with the SC, however.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 18):

Can you just imagine Ma and Pa Texan smiling when Junior comes home and proclaims that "we learned about the Koran today!"

My mom and dad wouldn't mind  Smile My grandma would kill me. Then my dad. Then probably my brother just to be on the safe side.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 26):
And actually the Qur'an has an account of the story as well.

Islam, too, is based off the Old Testament. In fact, Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet, just not the final prophet, the Son of God. Nor is Muhammad the Son of God, just the final prophet, if I understand it correctly. Moreover, Muhammad promoted the incorporation of Christian and Pagan beliefs if they benefited humankind. It is quite interesting to study the interrelationship between Islam, Christianity, and Judaism! Of course, that will not be taught in the class, which is too bad.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 94):
We?re not talking about turning the local high school into a seminary but rather teach an elective, a survey-course really, so it wouldn?t be necessary to teach from one particular bible at the expense of excluding other bibles because there would be no time to cover that much material.

Ah so how do they propose to teach the Bible without using one?

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 94):
Think of it as an intro course that highlights the major scriptures of the Old and New Testament and their relevance with western history and literature and also highlights the different branches of Christianity.

I attended Catholic school and Catholic College, but I attended Public middle school and high school.

In English Lit. I read the 23 Psalm of the King James Bible.

In History we were taught about the Great Schism, Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation. In American History we were taught about Calvinism and it's influence in American History.

Those were all regular text books. English Lit., European and American History texts.

I see no reason why those topics need to have a special elective to teach religion in school. Details can wait until college when the student has learned how to question text and sources on their own.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 94):
And I Attended a Catholic university where most of the theology department is made up of priests, nuns, and Catholic scholars, but there are also Jews, Muslims and Buddhists on staff who teach theology courses in respect to their particular faiths. I took some of the non-Catholic courses and I learned a lot.

Good, I did too. And LaSalle Had the same kind of faculty. But Texas High schools are going to have that in great numbers are they.

I took classes in Judaism and Early Christianity at LaSalle. Some of the best courses I ever took. But I was a College student not a high schooler.

I stand by this:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 93):
The point was that the Constitution prohibits a State sponsored religion.

The founders wisely decided that people should be free to worship or not in their own way with no interference from government.

Once government begins to promote one faith, by definition they are interfering with the freedom of people to practice other faiths or not to practice anything

This bill undermines the Constitution. It's wrong.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 93):
How can he be in favor of forcing kids who are Catholic and Jewish and every other religion, or lack there of, under the sun to read the bible in public school, and not be in favor of his kids learning Catholicism, or Judaism or Islam etc.



Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 93):

The point was that the Constitution prohibits a State sponsored religion.

If you think that in any way such Bill is unconstitutional, you have the right [your children] to not attending such religion lessons.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3232
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 97):
If you think that in any way such Bill is unconstitutional, you have the right [your children] to not attending such religion lessons.

It's easier for those who WANT the religious instruction to go to the private school of their choice.

As I said Government getting involved in promoting a faith its automatically detrimental to those of other faiths or to people who don't have a faith.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools

Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 88):
The course this law proposes, although it doesn't forbid bringing in texts from other cultures, is clearly focused on the Old and New Testaments and the societies that produced them; that is, Judeo-Christian culture.

Why do US schools have American History courses?

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 91):
I think Bible classes should not be made compulsory in Public Schools.



Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 93):
But mandating Bible study is another matter.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 97):
If you think that in any way such Bill is unconstitutional, you have the right [your children] to not attending such religion lessons.

People seem to forget that the proposal is to create an ELECTIVE course, not a required one.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.

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