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ANCFlyer
Topic Author
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Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:16 am

Source:
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0436814620070404


Can't say this didn't make my day . . . . or my week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Free Speech -  redflag 

These idiots actually burned a flag - whilst attached to someone's house! Morons!!!

Said Hyder Akbar, 23, Nikolaos Angelopoulos, 19, and Farhad Anklesaria, 19, were arrested on Tuesday and charged in New Haven Superior Court with reckless endangerment, arson, breach of peace, criminal mischief and other offenses.

Police said the three torched a flag hanging from the porch of a house in New Haven near the Ivy League school.

For the two Non-US Residents - ship them home.

For the other, slam him good.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:20 am

On this one, they were arrested more for arson than burning a flag. Sound like the flag was just a conveneint torch.

I can't argue with you on this one, because, in my view, it constitute that would set off a "flame" war on the subject.  Big grin
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
I can't argue with you on this one, because, in my view, it constitute that would set off a "flame" war on the subject.

Hehe Flame war I get it...funny!  Big grin
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:25 am

Better watch that one in Texas.

Quote:
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:25 am

Come now ANC, the emphasis here shouldn't be on the flag burning itself, but the lack of any discernible reason for doing so. This was open and shut vandalism, and that's why these young perpetrators are fools.

My grandfather, a vet of both WWII and Korea, burned the flag on three separate occasions during the Vietnam era as a solemn protest to the manner in which the military and government he loved was, in his eyes, subverted by industrial defense interests.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 2):
Hehe Flame war I get it...funny!

It was a lame flame, but I have no shame.  Big grin
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
reckless endangerment, arson, breach of peace, criminal mischief and other offenses.

Fortunately, those charges will stick because ...

These idiots must not have realized that:

1. You must obtain a burning permit prior to burning a flag.
2. You must burn the flag in only an area authorized and approved by the Fire Chief prior to its burning.
3. You must have appropriate, approved, and functioning fire extinguishing devices on-scene when burning a flag.

There are more, but those are the main points that will keep these charges from being dismissed.
 
walter747
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Hyder Akbar, 23, Nikolaos Angelopoulos, 19, and Farhad Anklesaria, 19

Those names say it all.
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Free Speech - redflag

These idiots actually burned a flag - whilst attached to someone's house! Morons!!!

Can't argue with your assessment... And under Texas v. Johnston, it's doubtful this would be protected speech....

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
For the two Non-US Residents - ship them home.

Fast....

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
For the other, slam him good.

Make him wish he got shipped out with the other two....
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 7):
Those names say it all.
Hey now, don't go stereotyping....

The names in this case don't mean jack, every race with any sort of name is guilty of doing this...

EDIT- Making the post more worth-wile...

[Edited 2007-04-05 03:35:33]
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:35 am

They'll be expelled from Yale, too. Try explaining that to mommy and daddy.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:35 am

I don't disagree with flag burning on any moral grounds. I think the issue is, flag burning is such a broad, sweeping gesture that it fails to make a lot of sense.

Whatever someone's political background, and whatever their beef with certain individual policies, (eg Iraq, immigration, education, tariffs, gun control etc etc), I fail to see how a strong resentment of one or two policies logically leads someone to burn a flag...You hate the Iraq war but decide to protest by burning a symbol that theoretically represents EVERYTHING??

Makes no sense right? In fact, I even think it's a little lazy. It doesn't committ anyone to sending a real message, but get's plenty of airtime.
 
tz757300
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 9):
Hey now, don't go stereotyping....

You must not know Walt, he does it all the time
 
ANCFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Come now ANC, the emphasis here shouldn't be on the flag burning itself, but the lack of any discernible reason for doing so. This was open and shut vandalism, and that's why these young perpetrators are fools.

Well, Aaron, you know me if you've been here long enough.

SO you know, the issue for me is both . . . burning the flag, and being stupid enough to do so whilst attached to someone's house. Morons . . .

One I can't legally do anything about, so says SCotUS. The other well, wreckless endangerment, arson, destruction of Private Property, vandalism . . . . etc.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):

Ditto, Alaska. Setting fire to my home will get you bled.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 7):
Those names say it all.

Yup.

They say; British, Greek and American.
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:49 am

Why would someone do such a thing. If I'm reading the article correctly, two of them aren't even citizens. Talk about lacking respect and decency, let alone logic and reasonable thinking. They are going to arguably one of the finest Insitiutions in America and they pull a stunt like this. Boggles the mind really.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
Yup.

They say; British, Greek and American.

  

Good one MD, well done.  

Dave

[Edited 2007-04-05 03:51:13]
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Free Speech

Free speech doesn't give anybody the right to burn a flag. I'm absolutely with you on this one.

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 7):
Those names say it all.

As a matter of fact, they don't. Two are Greeks, somehow I have difficulties to find any ground for animosity between Greece an the USA. Honestly, the biggest surprise for me is the third dude. The USA gave him a new home, this is his payback?
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:53 am

Idiots.

They deserve exactly what they get. Not for burning a flag, but because it wasn't their property, and they endangered the owner's house when they did it. I wonder if there was any alcohol involved in the decision making of these three morons.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:55 am

My bumper sticker ensconsed on my back bumper
http://www.republicangear.com/burnourflagGIF.gif
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 803
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:02 am





Love it.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 15):
They are going to arguably one of the finest Insitiutions in America and they pull a stunt like this.

Further proof that Harvard is the superior college. Big grin

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 17):
I wonder if there was any alcohol involved in the decision making of these three morons.

I'd imagine there would have to be. Joking aside, I don't think anyone at the university level would be that thick while sober.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 16):
Free speech doesn't give anybody the right to burn a flag.

Luckily for us, the SCOTUS says you're wrong. It's a piece of fabric. Honestly, I've got better things to worry about. Although I do agree with this Norman Thomas quote: "If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it."
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 18):

www.republicangear.com

   I had a good laugh looking at some of the stuff on there.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 20):
Further proof that Harvard is the superior college.

After attending classes at both schools since I was a wee lad I can agree with you.  praise   liar   silly 

Dave

[Edited 2007-04-05 04:17:39]
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 20):
Luckily for us, the SCOTUS says you're wrong. It's a piece of fabric.

OK, I sit corrected. Take it as my opinion. For me the flag is a symbol, not a piece of fabric. But again, it's just me. I simply wouldn't do it.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
OK, I sit corrected. Take it as my opinion. For me the flag is a symbol, not a piece of fabric. But again, it's just me. I simply wouldn't do it.

Absolutely no problem with that stance. It just bugs me when people get this borderline flag fetish. I'd much rather venerate the concepts of justice, equality, etc. than the symbol of a country whose actions may or may not embody those principles (though usually they do).
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Free Speech -



Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Police said the three torched a flag hanging from the porch of a house

ANC, you gotta raise the  redflag  at yourself on this one. Comparing an act of VANDALISM with an organized protest is like comparing Republicans with fascists.

These kids are wrong for many reasons, but the one reason you are professing (and apparently taking the media story hook line and sinker) is not a reason they are wrong at all.

PS does anyone have it DOCUMENTED that their attorneys are even going to TRY to use a first amendment argument?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 20):
Although I do agree with this Norman Thomas quote: "If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it."

That's one of the best out there. A thorough cleansing never hurt anyone.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 17):
I wonder if there was any alcohol involved in the decision making of these three morons.



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
British, Greek and American.

Bass ale, ouzo, and Budweiser.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 26):
ouzo

I keep confusing that with orzo, which will probably get me in trouble some day. Big grin
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
Comparing an act of VANDALISM with an organized protest is like comparing Republicans with fascists

I have to admit... I like that last part.
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3242
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 27):
I keep confusing that with orzo, which will probably get me in trouble some day.

What's orzo?
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
ANC, you gotta raise the redflag at yourself on this one. Comparing an act of VANDALISM with an organized protest is like comparing Republicans with fascists.



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Come now ANC, the emphasis here shouldn't be on the flag burning itself, but the lack of any discernible reason for doing so. This was open and shut vandalism, and that's why these young perpetrators are fools.

I doubt they would have burned it if it were not an American flag. If it had been the family's crest, they probably would have left it alone.
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3722
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
They say; British, Greek and American.

and we all know how much those Greek folks hate the U.S...thanks for calling that B.S. out.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 16):
Free speech doesn't give anybody the right to burn a flag. I'm absolutely with you on this one.

Do tell...
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 29):
What's orzo?

Small rice-shaped pasta.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 6):
1. You must obtain a burning permit prior to burning a flag.
2. You must burn the flag in only an area authorized and approved by the Fire Chief prior to its burning.
3. You must have appropriate, approved, and functioning fire extinguishing devices on-scene when burning a flag.

If you own the flag, there is no justification for the state to require a "burning permit" or "approval" from the Fire Chief, and although no. 3 is common sense, it is in your own interest to have it functioning, and the state has no right to "approve" fire extinguishers either.

If it's your flag, then it's your property and you can do whatever the hell you want with it. It has nothing to do with free speech, but with the right of private property. Now, the flag is the holiest symbol of the state, and many Americans worship the flag, but it is not wrong to burn one, although it is wrong for the state to punish people for doing so.


But those three boys are idiots who committed arson, and that's what they should be charged with.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 33):
But those three boys are idiots who committed arson, and that's what they should be charged with.

That's what I said.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 33):
If you own the flag, there is no justification for the state to require a "burning permit" or "approval" from the Fire Chief, and although no. 3 is common sense, it is in your own interest to have it functioning, and the state has no right to "approve" fire extinguishers either.

You might want to brush up on some local ordinances here in the U.S. Regardless of whether or not you own the property you want to burn, some municipalities require you to have permit from the local FD. Some will go as far as to mandate the area where the burning will take place, yes even on your "private" property, be inspected prior to a permit being issued.
 
MD-90
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 35):
You might want to brush up on some local ordinances here in the U.S. Regardless of whether or not you own the property you want to burn, some municipalities require you to have permit from the local FD. Some will go as far as to mandate the area where the burning will take place, yes even on your "private" property, be inspected prior to a permit being issued.

Yes, that's all true. Our city has similiar ordinances. Doesn't make it right, though.
 
Yellowstone
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 35):
You might want to brush up on some local ordinances here in the U.S. Regardless of whether or not you own the property you want to burn, some municipalities require you to have permit from the local FD. Some will go as far as to mandate the area where the burning will take place, yes even on your "private" property, be inspected prior to a permit being issued.

Do these rules apply to burning anything, or only to burning the American flag?
 
AsstChiefMark
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 37):
Do these rules apply to burning anything, or only to burning the American flag?

Everything. Here, the American Legion collects old US flags for proper disposal because open fires are prohibited.

Here's our local burning rules:

"It is hereby declared and every person is forbidden to set fire at any time on any land in this city without permission. Any person who sets a fire and allows it to escape shall be liable for all expenses incurred in the suppression of such fire in accordance with provisions of Section 26.14 of the Wisconsin Statutes.

Burning permits may be obtained from the Fire Chief."


[Edited 2007-04-05 06:39:54]
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2742
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 36):
Yes, that's all true. Our city has similiar ordinances. Doesn't make it right, though.

Sure it does. Just because you might want to have a bonfire or a flag burning party, doesn't mean I want to assume the risk of your fire spreading to my property.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 38):
Everything. Here, the American Legion collects old US flags for proper disposal because open fires are prohibited.

I always find it kind of ironic that people get so upset over protesters burning flags when that's how you're supposed to dispose of them anyway. I guess context is everything.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 40):
I guess context is everything.

Partially.

There is a proper procedure for burning flags for disposal. I don't recall ever seeing a protestor follow it.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 pm

 rotfl 

What dumb shits! I love it! I'm just happy they didn't set themselves on fire in the process - I would've died right here laughing in my chair.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Said Hyder Akbar, 23, Nikolaos Angelopoulos, 19, and Farhad Anklesaria, 19,

Now why am I not surprised?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 3):
Better watch that one in Texas.

I like that. I'd bet that setting ablaze something that is attached to one's property is an act of arson - I swear I'd laugh even harder if they ended up getting shot over something so stupid.




-NWA742
 
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bwest
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:18 pm

If they got arrested for just burning a flag and not for almost setting a house on fire, I would have some serious doubts about the US judicial system..

I suppose large quantities of alcohol, some foolish idealistic indoctrination, an "I bet you don't dare to..", and overactive hormones due to spring all eagerly contributed to this childish act.

Still, if they want to burn a flag, let them (shows their lack of intelligence and failure to express themselves more than anything else), but at least these kids should've had the intelligence of not wanting to torch a flag with a house attached to it.

[Edited 2007-04-05 10:19:49]
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3722
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 42):
Now why am I not surprised?

As was already pointed out:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
British, Greek and American.

But then, I've come to expect this sort of xenophobia from you.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 18):

 rotfl 

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
There is a proper procedure for burning flags for disposal. I don't recall ever seeing a protestor follow it.

Neither have I. When a protester wants to burn a flag, it's for the spectacle. There's no respect for the flag or any proper procedure for disposal.

-R
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:28 pm

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 7):
Those names say it all.

Not really...what's with the Greek one?


The title of the thread is misleading; they'd have been arrested no matter what kind of flag it was they'd set on fire.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
These idiots actually burned a flag - whilst attached to someone's house! Morons!!!

Do to the right of free speech I support peoples right to burn the flag. I also support my right to freedom of expression. I should be allowed to throttle that person.

I have burned a flag in my life time. It was old and torn, we folded it and wrapped it in paper. We then put it in one of our 2000 degree furnaces at work for disposal. I am not sure if it was the exact proper way to do it but we tried our best.
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
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RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 47):
I have burned a flag in my life time. It was old and torn, we folded it and wrapped it in paper. We then put it in one of our 2000 degree furnaces at work for disposal. I am not sure if it was the exact proper way to do it but we tried our best.

I think as long as it was done with respecful disposal in mind most people wouldn't have a problem with it.
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: Arrested For Burning A US Flag

Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 39):
Just because you might want to have a bonfire or a flag burning party, doesn't mean I want to assume the risk of your fire spreading to my property.

I know here in Palm Beach you need a permit to have a bonfire. I wanted to burn some trees I cut down--went and got the permit, the chief said you need to be 500 feet from any structure to prevent it burning, I said I can't get 500 feet from my house, and he says "Oh not your house, the neighbours house, we don't care if you burn your own house down."

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 30):
I doubt they would have burned it if it were not an American flag. If it had been the family's crest, they probably would have left it alone.

True.

They need to spend a few years in jail, then deport the two non-citizens.

Dan in Jupiter

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