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N174UA
Posts: 1010
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 49):
Seattle is so overrated and self-consciously hip and I hate that.

 checkmark  After 11 years, I couldn't agree with you more. Anyone who tells me that people in Seattle are "nice" and "polite" make me want to scream....it's all about me, me, me. Only reason I'm still there is because of the real estate ladder.

Get this: I bought a townhouse in Mill Creek, which is about 20 miles north of downtown on I-5. Last May, I paid $260k. Now, 9 months later, if I went to sell the same unit, I could *easily* ask $315k. The one good thing about the real estate market in my area is that it's 99.9% immute to any downturn in the national real estate market.
 
Derico
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:17 pm

Those rankings should be taken as a "vague generalization", which once you start looking into aspects of life YOU care about, tend to render such listings a bit more useless.

Many articles in international magazines are placing Argentina very high up in best countries to visit or to live in as the economy and social indicators have improved drastically. But of course take that with a big grain of salt, of course if you have money it will be a great place to live, if you don't...

Same with the ranking of cities of this list.

Sure all of them ARE fine great cities, but many are so boring that nothing runs after 5pm. In others the weather is terrible most of the year, others have lousy sorroundings, and finally some of them have higher crime rates than say my own hometown. So in general, yes, specifically for eachone here, probably many of them will not match.

[Edited 2007-04-08 05:18:25]
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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n229nw
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 42):
Boston is overrated and is in some pretty serious trouble overall. You could not pay me to live there.

It is by far by favorite US city. It's probably the only major US city besides NY where not having a car is no problem, even with kids. It is beautiful, charming, full of young people, history--and the autumn is truly special. Yes it is expensive--most great cities are unfortunately.

Also, I'm interested in the New Yorkers you know who hate it. Every New Yorker I've ever met either will not leave, or wishes they could go back. (Well except one friend I know, who ended up moving to S.F.) Also, I've never met anyone who hates Portland. Is there anywhere you actually like, besides Texas?

In any case, these "best places" lists are always completely  redflag  because everyone is looking for different things in a city. Personally, you could not pay me to live in Texas (the weather, the sprawl, etc.) and the cities in the first few places on this list are BORING as far as I'm concerned ("livability" doesn't mean they are interesting).

In the end, everyone will have their own list, their own priorities...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 46):
No, but what does that have to do with me liking NYC more than what''s on the wrong side, i mean other side of of the river. This is based on personal experience not something i read.

Well, my experience of your experience is based on the prevailing winds. Quite simply, you all don't get to breathe it on the wrong side of the Hudson before we are damn well done with it, and that's what's been bugging people in Manhattan since forever.

I grew up within sight of the trade towers-which could be seen from Plainfield, New Jersey and spoiled an otherwise nice skyline, and I went to Manhattan maybe six times for reasons other than necessity. Overpriced, smelly, polluted, obnoxious people, I could go on. I'm also thinking about your state's spurious claim to Bedloes Island.

On the other hand, when I grew up it was the easiest thing in the world to go over the Outerbridge and get blitzed with a fake draft card.

Right now I've got New York and Los Angeles right about where I want them.....a long way away.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:15 pm

Quoting N229NW (Reply 52):
Is there anywhere you actually like, besides Texas?

Of course. What, because I don't fawn over Boston, New York, and Portland I must be some Texan fundamentalist? I can appreciate Boston's finer points when I VISIT the city, but I would not LIVE there. It is simply a matter of personal preference, plus I feel much more comfortable in Dallas. At least in the south people don't treat me like an idiot for having a trace of a southern accent.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 50):
Get this: I bought a townhouse in Mill Creek, which is about 20 miles north of downtown on I-5. Last May, I paid $260k. Now, 9 months later, if I went to sell the same unit, I could *easily* ask $315k. The one good thing about the real estate market in my area is that it's 99.9% immute to any downturn in the national real estate market.

Why is it immune, you think....I hear the job market sucks!

Quoting N229NW (Reply 52):
In any case, these "best places" lists are always completely redflag because everyone is looking for different things in a city. Personally, you could not pay me to live in Texas (the weather, the sprawl, etc.) and the cities in the first few places on this list are BORING as far as I'm concerned ("livability" doesn't mean they are interesting).

Fair enough; at least you didn't call us a bunch of boring redneck fatties. I can understand not liking the weather or the sprawl. Personally I don't like those aspects of Texas life either but I can overlook those things.
 
captaink
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 53):

Ok Dougloid, I guess NYC is not all that to some people. And yes the things New Yorkers love about the city, are strangely the very things outsiders hate. Anyhow we are the tristate area, lets be nice to each other. Big grin
Look Up
 
skidmarks
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:49 pm

If you need a list which is clearly aimed at a high earning strata of society, to determine where to live, then you are clearly deeply sad.

Most of us live where we can get work and the indices used by Mercer don't figure in the proceedings whatsoever. Add this to the fact that the list seems entirely populated by capital or major cities then this makes it even more useless. All it does, I fear, is give people something to argue/whine/rant/moan/crow about.

Determining where to live has to be a personal thing with so many more variables than encompassed by this list. And I think many of the comments above bear out my thoughts on this Big grin

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:59 pm

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 56):
If you need a list which is clearly aimed at a high earning strata of society, to determine where to live, then you are clearly deeply sad.

Is that because London was the only UK city on the list?

J/K. You're right; you don't need someone else telling you what the right place for you is.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:59 pm

Issue with those rankings -I agree although I posted the lead- is that it is focused on the large cities..
Business is usually in large metropolitan areas based on available infrastructure,presence of companies,workforce,schools,schopping etc..
But that is lesser and lesser true ( Take Nuremberg, typical German mid-size town with 500,000 population but a working airport,high-speed train highway access and universities..).Companies don't look necessarily into huge metropolitan areas to settle research-centers,manufacturing or service -centers.
Cost of living in metropolis areas (Paris ,London,New York ) eat away a substantial amount of income,request massive penalties to commute to work-places from living areas (typical 2x2 hours/day in Paris..!!) and ,as a premium require ,massive investments for housing-prices.So where is the quality of life ?????
Mid-size cities that offer similar quality of infrastructure,entertainment and pleasant environment,win each year in terms of acceptance by previous large city dwellers.
I rather live in a 500,000 people city with reasonable rental or real-estate prices, than being ripped off in places like Paris or London (where I even have to pay to enter the city by car ..!!).
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
767Lover
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
Boston has one of the most storied sports pasts

Like racism?  duck 

The legacy of racial exclusion on the Red Sox extended into the Fenway Park stands, where black fans often felt unwelcome. But as Juan Williams reports for Morning Edition, the team's new owners have decided to confront the emotional story of Boston, baseball and racism.

Larry Lucchino, president and CEO of the Red Sox, and part of the new ownership that took over the team in February, acknowledges that along with the team's positive traditions, the club's history has included "an undeniable legacy of racial intolerance."


From a 2002 report by NPR

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/oct/redsox/
 
N174UA
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 54):
Why is it immune, you think....I hear the job market sucks!

Job market is very competitive in many fields...I wouldn't say it sucks. Seattle always has been, and is, a desireable place to live, with the scenery, outdoor activities, mild climate, etc. For that reason, demand will always be high for homes here, and therefore prices will remain high and thus less subject to market downturns that other markets see.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 56):
All it does, I fear, is give people something to argue/whine/rant/moan/crow about.

Absolutely, but isn't that the entire purpose of this forum?  wink 
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
skidmarks
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting N229NW (Reply 61):
Absolutely, but isn't that the entire purpose of this forum?

OK, smarty knickers, point taken !  tongue 

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
3 3 Vancouver Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
15 15 Toronto Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
18 18 Ottawa Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
22 22 Montreal Kanda



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
24 25 Calgary Kanada

(Calgary is my vote)

Haha, They Spell Canada Funny! Or just plain wrong in the case of Montreal!  Wink

Cheers
Carson
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
DETA737
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:54 am

If anyone is interested in the full list with 215 cities the link is below.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...ews/publish/article_10009626.shtml
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 24):
My choices would be:

Let's see what choices to take, provided you find a decent "money-source" :
- Milano
- London
- Paris
- Beirut
- Alexandria
- Cairo
- Barcelona
- Casablanca
- Athens
- Istanbul
-

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 29):
Mercer�s study is based on detailed assessments and evaluations of 39 key quality of living determinants, grouped in the following categories:
political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc)
economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services, etc)
socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom, etc)
health + sanitation (medical supplies + services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc)
schools and education (standard and availability of international schools, etc)
public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion, etc)
recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc)
consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc)
housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services, etc)
natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)

looks like a quite objective thing, and does to some extent explain the breathtaking rank of Zurich
-

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 58):
the large cities..

well, Zurich and Geneva are the 2 largest cities in Switzerland (closely followed by Basel) but by international standards are small cities at best, whenever with metropolitan international functions. I suppose that exactly this mix makes the two cities so attractive.
-
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Honolulu is obscenely expensive

Not really. We found it very comparable to the mid-atlantic coast. Even did some comparing as we really couldn't believe it wasn't more expensive. The only thing we didn't look at were housing costs, as we were not moving there. Gasoline, groceries, heating and cooling. (depending on the energy source for these) Kilowatt hour cost of electricity was very comparable to where we live now.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):
Same goes for you and your hypocritically asinine critique of ONLY American cities.

 checkmark  If it ain't Dallas, she thinks it sucks - PERIOD!

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):
Please, whats your real agenda

Bashing everything that isn't Dallas.

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 17):
list means jack until someone tells me why it's ranked that way.

 checkmark  And even then, it's all subjective.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 42):
You could not pay me to live there.

Can we pay you to stay in Europe?  duck 

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
there's no way you'll convince me that Dallas is a better city for sports.

Or anyone else outside of Texas.  duck  I'm not bashing Texas sports. They have some good teams, and a pretty good history of winning at some of them, but it's a short history compared to Boston sports.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 49):
The people were rude

Pot, Kettle, Black - BIG TIME!!

Quoting N229NW (Reply 52):
In the end, everyone will have their own list, their own priorities...

Best comment in the thread.  checkmark 
 
airxliban
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:14 am

Interesting list - what is the link for the report by Mercer Management?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
GSM763
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 66):
Can we pay you to stay in Europe?   

please god no how much for you to take him away?

Anyway it is an interesting list but lists like this are never going to work they will always pick out big cities which while personally that is what I prefer is not everyone's cup of tea.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 55):
Anyhow we are the tristate area, lets be nice to each other.

I'm down wid dat, as we say.


 Wink  Wink  Wink
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Dougloid
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 60):
Seattle always has been, and is, a desireable place to live, with the scenery, outdoor activities, mild climate, etc. For that reason, demand will always be high for homes here, and therefore prices will remain high and thus less subject to market downturns that other markets see.

How old are you? Do you remember the signs that said "Will the last person leaving Seattle please shut the lights off?"
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Heh...did they take cost of living into account?

Obviously this is a list of cities where it's great to be homeless. I don't see a single city there where the cost of living is reasonable.

Philadelphia, and Baltimore are not on the list, nor is Denver All three of which are fantastic cities.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
travelin man
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:03 am

I think it is interesting when people think the cost of housing is a drawback to living in a particular city.

I had always understood through Economics classes, that as demand increases, prices increase. So, to me, it would seem that those cities with high housing costs also have a high demand from people wanting to live there, whether it is London, NYC, Los Angeles, Zurich, or Tokyo.

To say that those places are not desirable as places to live because the housing costs too much is a bit like that Yogi Berra saying:
"Nobody goes there any more. It's too crowded."
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 72):
I think it is interesting when people think the cost of housing is a drawback to living in a particular city.

I've often said this about non-rev airline travel:

It's not the getting there that's expensive it's the staying there that is.

What's the point of having a city with great resturants and concerts and plays if you have no money to go to those things?

There is more to a city than it's cache.

The ones I picked in particular are great because not only can you afford to live there but they have those great ammenities.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
travelin man
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 73):
The ones I picked in particular are great because not only can you afford to live there but they have those great ammenities.

I definitely get your point. I was just pointing out that in many ways housing prices are an "effect" of strong demand to live in a particular city, not a "cause" of a city being desirable (or not).
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 74):
I was just pointing out that in many ways housing prices are an "effect" of strong demand to live in a particular city, not a "cause" of a city being desirable (or not).

Well as was pointed out Boston has been losing population while it has a high housing cost and is on the list. So the link on this one is tenuous at best.

San Francisco for example while it is a very desirable place to live and I love visiting, has an extremely high housing cost becasue of the Tech boom.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
travelin man
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
So the link on this one is tenuous at best.

Well, for those cities that are built out (or nearly so), like Boston, San Francisco, and NYC, the supply side enters the equation in regards to housing prices.

But I don't know how you can describe the link between demand and housing prices to be "tenuous", as it is one of the underlying principles of the capitalist system.

Cleveland = cheap housing
San Francisco = expensive housing

In which city do more people desire to live?

Whether or not the desire to live there is for the reasons outlined by Mercer is probably a different discussion, however.

Don't get me wrong: I'm sure there are places which have fairly cheap housing that I'm sure are wonderful in their ways. But to say that a place has high housing prices and therefore is undesirable place to live is wrong on its face.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 76):
But I don't know how you can describe the link between demand and housing prices to be "tenuous", as it is one of the underlying principles of the capitalist system.

Let me ask you then, if demand is so high in Boston why is the population dropping?

Don't confuse gentrification with high demand. Which is the case. That's why demand isn't ALWAYS the reason for price increase. Take a rundown old warehouse and turn it into luxury apartments and a depressed city's numbers get skewed out of proportion.

In NYC you have a constant stream of Immigrants and people moving in counter balancing those moving out. I know I'm making money on my house in the NY suburbs because of the urban flight from NYC. San Francisco I'm not as familiar with. But I would venture a guess that housing rates depend on the tech sector.

Look all I'm saying is this list isn't so much a list of "livable" cities as it is fashionable to live in cities. There are plenty of places that offer more livability than a number of those on the list yet everyone of those cities on the list is fashionable right now. Simply saying that number don't lie is wrong.

Like my statistics professor was fond of saying: Statistics are like Bikinis hat they reveal is interesting, but what they conceal is vital.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
soylentgreen
Posts: 244
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
I know many many ex-New Yorkers who wouldn't live in NY again if you gave them a million dollars. I wouldn't know from personal experience; I've never been there but if it's anything like London (crowded, dirty, smelly) I'd give it a wide berth.

Per last week's NY Times, the average price of 4 bedroom apartment in NYC is $7.9 million, up 20% from last year. If you "gave them a million dollars", they'd still be homeless!

Apartments in the seediest neighborhoods, which 15 years ago you couldn't give away, are now selling for $1MM plus. Newly arrived immigrants do not buy multi-million dollar condos or co-ops...and the rate of immigration to NYC is well below that recorded in any preceding decade.

My humble opinion, and one shared by many fellow NYers, is that international wealth requires a NYC address, albeit an unoccupied one, as a sign of success.

By the way, the outer boroughs of Manhattan are fast approaching Manhattan prices, with parts of Brooklyn...yes Brooklyn, fetching $5-6 million for single family dwellings.

NYC is no longer for the middle class, nor is it a haven for the indigent. It is quickly becoming a haven for the wealthy and the very wealthy.
 
sylvcath
Posts: 34
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Weird...I've known a couple of people who lived in Portland and they said it sucked.

Someone will say that about every city. FWIW, and I can only speak from a week's worth, traffic aside Portland is amazing. How can you not love a city surrounded by rivers and mountains?
"sylvcath" = Sylvan Catharsis
 
kingsford
Posts: 403
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:01 am

I just came back from Zuerich and I can confirm it deserves a top ranking ! The weather was great this Easter week-end and everybody was outdoors doing sports, enjoying shopping, etc The quality opf the air, the big lake, the mountains, the strategic location, short distance to airport, nice roads, clean streets, nice restaurants, etc etc it gets my thumbs up !

My top ten -

Zuerich
Stockholm
Madrid - and not Barcelona !
Vienna
Brussels (Here you could say I am biased as this is my hometown)
Frankfurt (Where I live now - it is more the 'larger' Frankfurt area I am refering to here)
Belgrade - I kindda loved it
Istanbul
Melbourne - my home OZ city
Ljubljana - more like a village

Not necessarily in that order
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 36):
Home to some of the world's most recognized hospitals, .....

Point Boston

Boston gets a point for having world recognized hospitals?

I wonder if Dallas has any world recognized health centers?
http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/index.html
http://www.baylorhealth.com/locations/bumc/
http://www.childrens.com/
http://www.tsrhc.org/

 footinmouth 

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
Also, how many Super Bowls have the Cowboys won the past 10 years. Better yet, how many Super Bowls have the Cowboys even participated in the past 10 years. Oh, zero? Geez

Dallas Cowboys : 5 SuperBowl wins
New England Patriots : 3 SuperBowl wins
 knockout 

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
Along with the Patriots and Red Sox you have the Bruins (Dallas has only had a hockey team since 1993 and even the North Stars have only been in existence since 1967)

Bruins last Stanley Cup : 1972
 bored 

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
the Celtics, a team in existence from 1946 and one that has one 16 championships, compared to the Mavericks, who in 27 years have yet to win won.

Bostono 23 53
Dallas 64 13

Larry Bird can't save you now.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 44):
Shall I continue with hockey?

Sure, let's check out the current NHL standings.

Dallas 50 25
Boston 35 41

Uh oh.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
rootsair
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:35 am

LONG LIVE GENEVA !!!!!


http://users.tkk.fi/~hsaariko/geneve.jpg

The best is that in Switzerland a ranking was made about which are the best places in Switzerland to live in nay my hometown Nyon came second ahead of both Geneva and Zurich , meaning we would be number 1  Smile
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
DETA737
Posts: 625
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:38 am

I think the reason that so many American cities rank quite low on this survey is because the city centres themselves are not very "livable" meaning they tend to have higher crime rates than many of their European counterparts, are not very walkable and have lots of traffic. This seems especially true of sunbelt cities such as Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix etc.

New York ranks quite well in the ranking because the city itself is one of the safest large American cities, it's got good public transportation and everything ammenities are very accessible (even to those without cars). Two friends of mine just came back from New York and actually mentioned how safe they felt walking around Manhattan at night compared to parts of London and how friendly they found the people to be (again in contrast with London).

The Mercer ranking has been around for years and for quite some time Vancouver was #1 and touted itself as the most livable city in the world. I have to agree it is a very livable place having lived there 4 years. It is very clean lots to do and very walkable...I am not surprised it was the top North American city. In comparison U.S. cities tend to be a bit grittier, I can't quite explain it but American city planners don't seem to put as much effort in livability as Canadian or European cities, meaning CBDs tend to be much more functional and less meant for living, the focus tends to be about creating livability in the suburbs.
 
LH423
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 71):
Philadelphia, and Baltimore are not on the list

Well, I guess the reviewers of the list didn't consider dodging bullets on their quality of life scale  cheeky  duck 

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
Well as was pointed out Boston has been losing population while it has a high housing cost and is on the list

I remember reading something that said that the census bureau actually made a mistake in their calculations and rather than losing 30,000 people, Boston gained 7,500. This wasn't the most authoritative source and other than wikipedia I haven't found anything to back up that claim so I won't press it. I'll be curious to see what the next population estimate says.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 81):
Dallas Cowboys : 5 SuperBowl wins
New England Patriots : 3 SuperBowl wins

Oh, believe me, I'm not going to try and say that the Celts or the Bs are doing anything but sucking right now. But, some more stats for you.

Yes, it's true that the Cowboys have been to the Superbowl more often and won more titles than the Pats. No argument there. But, the Cowboys have won 5 out of 8 appearances, and the Pats 3 out of 5 meaning that they're nearly equal in terms of their winning percentage. If you want to make yourself feel better by showing what the Bs and Celts aren't doing now by putting up current data compared to the Cowboys (who, again, I remind you haven't made an appearance in the last 11 Super Bowls) let's look at how the Celtics compare to the Mavericks in history and how the Bruins compare to the Stars/North Stars. I'll include the data from when they were Minnesota since how a sports team does isn't really a reflection of the city but rather the team itself, but also since the Stars have only been in Dallas since 1993 and this is an overall historical record.

Championships since 1960
Boston Celtics: 14 (1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969,1974, 1976, 1981, 1986)
Dallas Mavericks: 0

Stanley Cups since 1967 (year of the founding of the Minnesota North Stars)
Boston Bruins: 2 (1969-70, 1971-72 seasons)
Dallas Stars/Minnesota North Stars: 1 (1998-99 season)

Again, I know the Celts and Bs haven't done a damn thing in a several years (though the Bruins weren't doing so badly in the early 2000s, they just plain SUCK right now. It's painful to watch), again if you're going to look at historical data for one sport, at least be fair and look at it for all sports. Or, put the current football data as well

2006-07 season
New England Patriots: 12 4 0
Dallas Cowboys: 9 7 0

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
MDorBust
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 84):
Championships since 1960
Boston Celtics: 14 (1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969,1974, 1976, 1981, 1986)

21 years ago.

In a different perspective... you were still peeing in your diapers last time the Celtics won it.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 84):
Boston Bruins: 2 (1969-70, 1971-72 seasons)

Fourteen more years and you'll be a twinkle in your dads eye.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 84):
2006-07 season
New England Patriots: 12 4 0
Dallas Cowboys: 9 7 0

2006-07 season SuperBowl XLI Champions: Indianapolis Colts
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:53 pm

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 32):
I've heard that ABQ is a good place to live from all standpoints, is it true?

I thought it was a pretty decent place when I lived there, but it has a few weak spots. Violent crime is one weak area for the city. Public transportation is another, but being worked on with the addition of the commuter rail last year. Now if they would only add some light rail or tram system in the city to supplement the crappy busses. Also, wages are below average for a city its size, but improving. There are a lot of good things about it though, with lots of outdoor activities, lots to do, and a strong but not too expensive housing market.

One of my major criteria for a great city is one where I don't need a car. This was my biggest problem with ABQ. Another thing I dislike is when everything is sterile and uniform. Urban sprawl sucks in my book. This is why Denver is near the top of my least favorite major cities list. Poor public transportation, with a small downtown and millions of houses in neatly organized suburbs, stretching from the Rockies to Kansas. Dallas metroplex is another perfect example of urban sprawl gone mad, and that would keep it off my list as well.

I'm kinda partial to Portland since I live there now, but it really is a great city. I like it better than Vancouver, even though they are very similar cities. Great downtown areas in both cities, great natural environments, and i've noticed neither seems to care if you smoke weed in public (not me, other people doing it). Portland has better public transportation, Multnomah Falls, the Columbia Gorge, and Washington Park (trails are more interesting in the arboredum than Stanley Park in YVR). Both are great cities though, and are far better than Seattle in my opinion.
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767Lover
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 83):
I can't quite explain it but American city planners don't seem to put as much effort in livability as Canadian or European cities, meaning CBDs tend to be much more functional and less meant for living, the focus tends to be about creating livability in the suburbs.

Unfortunately this has been the case for the past few decades.

However, urban centers are starting to see a resurgence in the US. For instance, the downtown area of ATL is being transformed, lots of new development, housing, restaurants and a lot more people are living downtown now. I know other cities are seeing a similar pattern.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:54 pm

Nice to see my hometown on top, however, if the list was based on living costs, it'd be on top aswell  thumbsdown 

My top 10, excluding Zurich:

#1 Helsinki
#2 Stockholm
#3 San Francisco
#4 Amsterdam
#5 Tampere
#6 Singapore
#7 Prague
#8 Miami
#9 New York
#10 London
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 84):
Well, I guess the reviewers of the list didn't consider dodging bullets on their quality of life scale

I've lived in and around Philadelphia for 25 years. I've never had to dodge any bullets.

By the way, if that's a criteria how did Washington DC make the list?

Obviously they didn't take traffic into account either.

NYC, Washington, Boston, and Chicago all made the list, all have major traffic nightmares. Especially Boston and Washington.

So I'm puzzled...exactly what were the criteria?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
N174UA
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 70):
How old are you? Do you remember the signs that said "Will the last person leaving Seattle please shut the lights off?"

Almost 34. The sign you're referring to was up in the late '60's/early 70's, to my knowledge. Back then, the SEA area economy was tied almost exclusively to Boeing. Now, we have Microsoft, and many other industries that have helped soften the blow when Boeing hiccups. Thanks the 787, that shouldn't happen for a while, we hope...

I've lived in the SF area, PDX area, and now up here for 11 years. The PDX area is the best for many reasons, and I'll likely return there in a few years.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:33 am

My current home, Lexington Kentucky consistantly ranks in the top ten for standard of living based on US polls.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
iamcanadian
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
3 3 Vancouver Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
15 15 Toronto Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
18 18 Ottawa Kanada



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
24 25 Calgary Kanada

Good to see a bunch of the major cities of Canada up there. I'm really surprised that Toronto is rated higher than Calgary... personally (again, personal opinion), I could never STAND living in Toronto. Although, the labour situation, and the growth situation is getting pretty ridiculous here.
Shut up and calculate.
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
5 5 Auckland Neuseeland

Huh? 5th?? obviosuly no one went there to see what its like, very little public transport poor infrastructure, power outages  Wink extremely bad traffic as bad if not worst than Sydney. The living cost isnt too bad if you are prepared to live in South Auckland, Manakau area...........

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
12 12 Wellington Neuseeland

Lol same as above, obviously havent been there, although they have a better public transport system than Auckland. Wellington is a nice place but it isnt anywhere i know many people 'want' to live.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
21 21 Perth Australien

 Smile Perth should be number 1, imo the best city in Australia. WA has a government that wants to bring Perth into this century and that is obvious with all the money that is being injected into roading and rail. The money comes from all the natural gas and iron ore up here, shame we dont see any of the money though.....


Switzerland always does pretty well in these sorts of things, education, happiness etc.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
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cedars747
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:57 am

In my point of view and after a long experience traveling around the world,the best city to live in is BUENOS AIRES

Proud to be Porteño
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Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
turbo7x7
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:02 am

I've got mixed feelings myself regarding these listings. Sure, they give some kind of idea of what cities are considered desirable to live in but ultimately people have to choose depending on a set of factors that are only meaningful to them.

Case in point: I've lived in NYC all my life but I certainly won't boast about it since I obviously can't compare with anywhere else. Besides, I would be the first to say that this city is DEFINITELY NOT for everyone, and the advantages I enjoy living here are due to things I can't take credit for.

My parents established themselves here in the 70's when decent public housing for middle-class families was readily available in the city although in those years, New York was considered a shithole by most Americans (compared to the respect and sympathy it gets nowadays thanks to 9-11) . . . and the city really almost fell off the cliff during those times, but I was just a child back then so I wasn't really conscious of that.

My parents stayed throughout the eighties and nineties because of the deep ties they have with our neighborhood church (they met there and to this day still do a lot of church-related activities). Otherwise, I think we as a family unit would have left if those strong ties didn't exist.

Likewise, I continue to stay because of job opportunities and ironically, relatively low cost of living. I've taken over the lease of the 3 BR apartment my parents had and the rent is less than $1K a month, a steal compared to the free market. There were issues in the past over rowdy neighbors, crime, and crappy facilities but those three factors have improved remarkably over the past 5 - 10 years. The bad neighbors moved years ago, there have been building improvements and facelifts, and the entire complex (& the city in general) is safer than ever.

Living in the Lower East Side of Manhattan also means one more thing: I don't need a car.
My monthly transportation cost to work: $76 My commute to midtown: 20 minutes

And it's even tax-deductible without having to itemize it in a tax form, thanks to the TransitChek program my employer is in. Plus, the unlimited monthly card I buy means I get a lot of bang for the buck the more I use it on the weekends and evenings. Sure I take taxis often when it's late at night, and they're getting more expensive but I still think I come out on top compared to so many others. No lease or loan payments, no car insurance, no maintenance costs, no fluctuating gas prices, no repair costs, no garage or parking fees, no traffic jams, no desperate searches for a parking space, no endless freeway commutes.

Also: no mortgage, no utility or home insurance bills, no real estate taxes, no wife, no 2.3 kids, no 2.whatever cars. I don't see myself ever getting married or having kids, so my disposable income situation is VERY good! I've gotten spoiled enjoying all the unique cultural amenities this city has to offer. At this point in my life, I just can't imagine living somewhere else and giving up the easy access I have to these things. Also, I like to travel, and living right in between three major airports, with two of them being intl. hubs, the rest of the world is just one flight away.

Obviously though, my situation is unique and I give credit only to my parents and dumb luck. Sometimes, I wonder about actually owning (instead of perpetually renting) my own home out in the suburbs; not a McMansion, but spacious enough. But I will probably instead invest in a foreign vacation property or two, which I can then rent out to others when I'm not vacationing in it myself. I think I can earn enough to cover any mortgage I might have to take plus cover some of the rent for my primary residence. In other words, more disposable income! So I feel a little "stuck" in NYC for now, because I just don't see myself starting over from scratch in a new location. I'm sure the same thing applies to many of you reading this wherever you happen to live or whatever your particular situation is.

[Edited 2007-04-11 23:08:07]

[Edited 2007-04-11 23:28:22]

[Edited 2007-04-11 23:30:15]
 
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KPDX
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Weird...I've known a couple of people who lived in Portland and they said it sucked.

Haha, wow your friends must not be ever be amused, if your looking for a place to shop and go to a million places, NYC not Portland. Big grin

Portland is very clean and beautiful!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/KPDX/662005s_Portland_Oregon.jpg

Quoting Sylvcath (Reply 79):
Someone will say that about every city. FWIW, and I can only speak from a week's worth, traffic aside Portland is amazing. How can you not love a city surrounded by rivers and mountains?

Exactly. I live near Portland, and it is by far the most amazingly beautiful,clean city I have ever seen seen!



KPDX Big grin
 
LH423
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:15 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 85):
In a different perspective... you were still peeing in your diapers last time the Celtics won it.

I was a little beyond diapers, but thanks.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 85):

Fourteen more years and you'll be a twinkle in your dads eye.

How old do you think I am? It was only 10 years! Big grin

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 85):
2006-07 season SuperBowl XLI Champions: Indianapolis Colts

Your point? The Pats can't win it EVERY year  Wink

Anyway, you missed my point. The poster to whom I was responding was using historical data to show how many super bowl wins the Cowboys have over the Patriots but then using this season's data to show how the Dallas teams are doing over the Boston teams. So, I was simply providing him with historical data showing that both the Bruins and Celtics have more championships that the Stars/North Stars and Mavericks, respectively. Conversely, if he's prefer to use current data, the Pats record last season was clearly better than the Cowboys and that, while yes the Cowboys have won more Super Bowls, none have been in the past decade...you know...when I was still in diapers  Wink

Believe me, I'll be the first to admit that the Bs and Celts have done jack sh*t in years, but don't distort numbers so your teams come out on top not matter what. As the saying goes, "there are lies and there are statistics".

Using current data:

Rangers: 80 82 ('06 season)
Red Sox: 86 76 ('06 season)

Mavericks: 65 13 (as of 12 April)
Celtics: 23 55 (as of 12 April)

Cowboys: 9 7 0
Patriots: 12 4 0

Stars: 44 24 5
Bruins: 35 41 6

Yes, it's true the Mavericks spanked the Celts this season and the Bs did pretty badly. Let's hope Chiarelli can help the Bruins do better next year. The Red Sox had a pretty bad season. Lowest standings in years last year, but still edged out the Rangers. Let's see how this season goes. And the Cowboys were 3 games behind the Patriots last season. So, I guess it kinda balances.

What I meant more when I said that Boston is a better city for sports is that we have teams with great sporting traditions and a die hard fan base. Sometimes a bit too much. But a Boston fan will be a Boston fan for life.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
Especially Boston and Washington.

According to this article, Boston isn't even in the Top 10.

http://www.forbes.com/logistics/2006...-nightmares-cx_rm_0207traffic.html

Article dated 7 February 2007.

And yes, Boston's traffic is no picnic, so I can't even imagine what it's like in some of those cities (having experienced LA traffic, it must be brutal).

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
N1120A
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Heh...did they take cost of living into account? Honolulu is obscenely expensive and very isolated.

Actually, Honolulu isn't particularly expensive for people who live there, only tourists.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Weird...I've known a couple of people who lived in Portland and they said it sucked.

Well, that "couple of people" obviously don't reflect the overall population. Portland has been completely rebuilt and revitalized over the past 2 decades into the model American metropolis.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):

If it isn't Texas, it sucks, right?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
What really surprises me is that Raleigh or Durham isn't on the list...

No suprise here.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 12):
Looks like you have a great love for the USA, though

Disruptivehair is ridiculously and blindly pro-USA. Well, pro-Texas anyway.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):
but I wouldn't expect you to question or criticize anything non-American..

Really?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):
Kind of curious how Zurich took tops, but has a higher cost of living than any American city....

It also has amazingly high income levels.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 23):
As a Texan, I find that unacceptable.

Why? Because they slighted you on a WORLDWIDE survey? Look at the cities on that list.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 33):
The question of course is WHICH PORTLAND? There are at least two well known Portlands at opposite ends of the country...

They are talking about the one in Oregon.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 40):
Sure, Boston has some very highly recognized universities, but I don't think that they contribute to a city's overall quality of life.

Some? Boston is the world's biggest college town and they most definately contribute to the heartbeat of that city. The city has well over 100,000 students that fuel a major sub-economy of cheap food, rental housing, culture, etc. It is one the US' oldest cities but one of its youngest at the same time.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 40):
Dallas has more restaurants per capita than New York City

Who cares? It is about quality, not quantity. The cities to eat in in the US are Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Miami and New Orleans. Dallas doesn't qualify.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 49):
Plus, Seattle is so overrated and self-consciously hip and I hate that.

Oh come on now. Cities are to each their own. The things I can say about Texas, having been to every major city except for Austin, go way beyond that. Seattle is vibrant, educated, diverse and accessible.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
San Francisco for example while it is a very desirable place to live and I love visiting, has an extremely high housing cost becasue of the Tech boom.

Actually, the biggest reason for the cost of housing there is the city's limited size and full build out status. The tech boom affects San Jose and other parts of the South Bay more.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 75):
Well as was pointed out Boston has been losing population

Boston hasn't been losing population. The Census Bureau revised their 2005 estimates and Boston has actually gained more than 7000 since 2000.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
halls120
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RE: Best Cities To Live Ranking...

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:03 pm

Gee, I wonder why New Orleans isn't on this list?  duck   stirthepot 
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