Dougloid
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European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:49 am

Folks, this came up as I was musing about the penchant around these parts of beating up on Uncle for any perceived slight or inattention to European needs.

I think we concluded to file the entire immigration subject under the general heading of "People Behaving Badly". Good riddance to it.

One area in which we here have not been remiss is in exporting the worst of American culture-Disney, Britney, Hollyweird, Starbucks and fast food.

Yes friends, fast food. High fat, low nutritional value, toxic, artery clogging, obesity inducing swill.

In the home of haute cuisine or at least good eating, I was able to do a straw poll and found that there were +640 McDonalds in France, 1,200 in Germany, 80 in Denmark and 340 or so in Italy, home of the Slow Food movement.

So what's up with this fascination with the worst America has to give-in particular McSludge?

Despite the efforts of people like Jose Bove, who bulldozed a McDonalds while eating a roquefort cheese sandwich to the folks who bombarded a McDonalds with fresh octopi with a home made octopus cannon, the Clown seems to be doing quite well, thank you.

If I knew Jose Bove's address I'd send him a bottle of Listerine, however. Some stuff just shouldn't be in a sandwich because it's just wrong.

Now. Bear in mind. I'm a midwesterner by choice, born in New Jersey, lived in 12 differnt states and Los Angeles as well, and I've made nearly 59 years without going off the noth american continent. I am a naive person in matters of Euroculture but I am not therefore unlettered.

But even I don't eat the stuff. The McD's down the street from me has an exhaust stack that puts out a smell of rancid fry grease that's enough to gag a maggot, and they're all the same. On the rare occasions I have to meet a client I use them as landmarks, but I stay away from the *food*.

Don't get me wrong. My body's not a temple and I don't treat it like one. It's more like a frat house. But there are limits.

So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much??? Do we file this under the heading "Feels so wrong it must be right"?

[Edited 2007-04-08 17:50:13]
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
JGPH1A
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
If I knew Jose Bove's address I'd send him a bottle of Listerine, however. Some stuff just shouldn't be in a sandwich because it's just wrong.

Jose Bove is a bit of a loony, I can't figure him out. He's very pro-ecology, anti-GMO which is fair enough, but I'm a bit worried he's way too nationalistic. I'm all for eating local, and buying from local suppliers, but sometimes I think he's not so much worried about everyone buying local as everyone buying French. OK, blowing up McDonalds doesn't help put across any sensible message, but the point about locally-grown food is important. They're much better at local produce and accepting the seasonality of supply here than in the UK for example, where you can get any kind of fruit or veg at any time of the year, although mostly flown in at vast expense from Zimbabwe or Kenya, to the detriment of the environment and the local food supplies in those countries.

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much???

It's easy, it's cheap, and it's American - for kids who've grown up on Playstation, Disney, American TV shows (admittedly dubbed), it's cool. For working parents, it's a pitstop on the way home and an excuse not to cook dinner - same as everywhere, really. McDo is part of the landscape now, as is the French equivalent Quick - but there are no Burger Kings in France, and almost no KFC (which is a shame, I actually (hangs head in ignominy) like KFC. Of course, I only go there for the coleslaw (*cough cough*). It's still the exception, rather than the rule though, and I think the French on the whole feed their kids a reasonably healthy diet overall.
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Scorpio
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much???

We don't. At least not nearly as much as the Americans. I mean, yes, we have McDonald's, a very limited number of Pizza Huts, and our own Quick, but that's where it ends. I don't know the present situation, but a few years ago Belgium was the only country where McDonald's was losing money and had to close restaurants - because it simply didn't catch on as much as they thought it would. The closest fast food restaurant to where I live is at least 10 miles away, so it's not nearly as big as in the U.S.

As to why American pop culture is so big here? Main reason is because there's so much of it. The US is one very large country, with one official language and - to the outside world - one culture, and it has an enourmous entertainment industry. That is impossible to achieve in Europe, because of the enormous differences in cultures and languages (hell, my country's the size of a napkin, and we have three official languages!). We'll never have that unified and powerful entertainment industry, because we don't have the enormous home market.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
as is the French equivalent Quick

Quick's Belgian, actually  Wink
 
pelican
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
Playstation,

Do you even realise that playstation is not American  Wink

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much??? Do we file this under the heading "Feels so wrong it must be right"?

Why should it be wrong? Okay it's not very healthy and many people should therefore stay away from it. But with a BMI of ~22 and doing sports 5-6times a week I personally don't see a reason for not eating there.

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So what's up with this fascination with the worst America has to give-in particular McSludge?

Fascination - no. It's cheap, it's fast and doesn't taste bad - that's all.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2):
We'll never have that unified and powerful entertainment industry, because we don't have the enormous home market.

We have, nonetheless we have lots of the so called American (pop) culture here. But is it really American culture in a national sense? I doubt it. It's more like a "globalised Western mass culture".

pelican
 
GDB
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:36 am

How do those stats pan out - as in numbers of fast food outlets in an area with a certain population? Compared to the US average?

The UK, at least in the last few years, saw a decline in McShite outlets.
But in any major European capital, you'll see more due to the tourist market.

The major US fast food outlets, due to their massive home market, amass such vast capital, they have huge buying power, lobbying etc.

I rarely eat fast food from the major outlets, I cannot remember when I last had a Burger King - which I quite occasionally, I never have McDonalds, I might be an atheist, but if there IS such a thing as the Anti Christ, it's probably Ronald McDonald.

The most common fast food in the UK, is probably take away curry - the UK version of the results of the post war influx from the Indian Subcontinent, followed by Pizza, Chinese or Kebabs.
And yes, fish and chips still looms large.
The most regular take out I have, is a vegetable curry and rice from a local food store.

I suspect that in fact, slowly, the influence of the major US fast food outlets is in decline here.
 
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
In the home of haute cuisine or at least good eating, I was able to do a straw poll and found that there were +640 McDonalds in France, 1,200 in Germany, 80 in Denmark and 340 or so in Italy, home of the Slow Food movement.

You got a link? 340 in Italy??? Where? I'd have trouble beliving 50!

Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
How do those stats pan out - as in numbers of fast food outlets in an area with a certain population? Compared to the US average?

Very good question!

Gemuser
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NoUFO
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
It's easy, it's cheap

Is it? For what you get, prices are actually relatively high if you ask me. Ok, you don't need to ask me, but I would have no problems introducing you to some soup bars or Asian fast food restaurant where you can get a decent or even healthy meal for what you would spend on a BicMac-Menue. Trouble is: Try eating your soup with your fingers, a soup is not cool, and be it for the mere reason that the kids can have a soup at home.

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
+640 McDonalds in France, 1,200 in Germany, 80 in Denmark and 340 or so in Italy, home of the Slow Food movement.

Germany is not exactly home of the slow food movement. France, Spain and Italy - yes, but not Germany or England. Other than Italians or the French, Germans mostly shop at supermarkets - the German car "drinks" super, the German consumer eats Aldi.
The good news is that this is about to chance. After numerous food scandals, quality and organic food are en vogue.

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much???

Maybe it's because we're not that different after all and some things American are truly international, such as Coca Cola and McDonalds, even if taste and ingredients differ slightly to cater to local taste.
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Sabena332
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
Is it? For what you get, prices are actually relatively high if you ask me.

I can't agree more, everything else than McD's 1 EUR offers and BK's 99er's is overpriced, Subway is the most ridiculous of them all, overpriced and a constant dropping quality.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
Germany is not exactly home of the slow food movement. France, Spain and Italy - yes, but not Germany or England.

I agree. I really like the Spanish cuisine and the way how they eat: something small in the morning, something bigger at around noon, and something really big and good in the evening. The Italian cuisine is similar (also a lot of fish) so I like it as well. Can't judge the French one.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
the German car "drinks" super,

No, it "drinks" Ultimate100 or UltimateDiesel.  Silly

As for fast-food: Yes, McD's and BK's Drive Throughs are sometimes the quickest way to get something to eat.

Patrick
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Derico
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:28 am

European or North American food could actually be quite good. If only the raw ingredients were fresh and tasty!

From milk to eggs, apples, beef, marmelades, jams, you name it. They don't taste as natural and fresh overseas.
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767Lover
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
and almost no KFC (which is a shame,

My husband and I marveled that late at night in Prague, the local youths weren't tucking in to the handmade sausage offerings off the food carts in Wenceslas Square. They were lined up at the KFC, digging into fried chicken sandwiches like there was no tomorrow.
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:49 am

I started by googling and found some information on the number of McFeces outlets in Europe. My jedi master is a leader in the slow food movement here in central Iowa and I do some work for a farmers cooperative that raises free range heirloom hogs. Your average person here weighs far too much and eats at the Clown three or four times a week.

Personally I prefer my own cooking, a nice wood oven pizza or Indian when I'm in the chips.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
TLG
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
Is it? For what you get, prices are actually relatively high if you ask me.

I have eaten at McDonald's in many different countries, so I can tell you from experience that it is much cheaper in the US than in most other countries. A few years ago the McDonald's in Eastern Europe were cheaper, but not anymore. I am always amazed how in the UK the prices are similar to prices in the US (or even a little higher), except it's in pounds instead of dollars, which effectively doubles the cost!

-TLG
 
andz
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
I actually (hangs head in ignominy) like KFC

Nothing wrong with that, I think KFC is great.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
he's not so much worried about everyone buying local as everyone buying French.

What is it with the French and their overinflated sense of self-importance?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
there are no Burger Kings in France

Reason number 77,258 not to visit France.

The one thing I look forward to when I visit Europe is the food, be it real English fish and chips and battered sausage (which is sadly lacking here) or in Germany, there's nothing better than standing in a cobbled street with a Bratwurst roll
 drool 
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cxsjr
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:52 pm

Wasn't there some silly tale around in the late 80's that McD's were supporters of the I.R.A. and that they even donated some of their profits to them?

McDonalds et al surely have to be the evil behind some of the worst intensive animal farming (especially chickens), and anti 'fair trade' players in the world?

Quoting Andz (Reply 12):
English fish and chips

.... get it right and it's real good but if it's too greasy ....  vomit 

For me, European food is some of the greatest, especially simple authentic Italian .... the best Parmigiano Reggiano, rocket and Modena balsamic or Pomodorino tomatoes cooked in olive oil with a dash of pepper and some fresh basil tossed into homemade pasta .... bring it on  thumbsup 
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much??? Do we file this under the heading "Feels so wrong it must be right"?

> it is NOT "liked so much", but every of these chains you mentioned has its followers, AND most of all it contributes to the variety. Any city in Europe of even minor importance sports Italian, Greek, Turkish, Arab, Iranian, Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi, Thai, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, Australian, Mexican, Brazilian and US American restaurants, PLUS some English and Irish pubs, supplemented by Italian gelaterias.
> I would NOT take Starbucks under "fast food", not only as it is beverages and not food, but because it is really good coffee, and Italian cafeterias are far faster then them in serving the stuff
> AND finally, also European fast-food like those "sausages-places" are "" High fat, low nutritional value, toxic, artery clogging, obesity inducing swill. ""
-

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
mostly flown in at vast expense from Zimbabwe or Kenya, to the detriment of the environment and the local food supplies in those countries.

> in view of the present aircargo-rates, it is NOT "at vast expense", but the fact is that the transport from the airport to the retailer will be some 50% of the transport-costs
> the local food supplies in those countries will take profit from the fact that more stuff can be produced, more people get work, and more entrepreneurs can do business. The exports of foodstuff to Europe is a major development factor for countries all over the African and Asian continent. And very often made difficult by the subsidies usual in Europe and the defacto barriers still existing. THIS has been the reason why, on the basis of initiative of late King Hassan II, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan have concluded association treaties with the E.U., and will be followed shortly by Libya, so that such things become easier
-

Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
the major US fast food outlets is in decline

possibly not really in decline, for instance in Switzerland, but on the stagnating side.
-

Quoting Andz (Reply 12):
KFC is great.

KFC Switzerland went bankrupt some years ago, and the chain has disappeared. So much for the "success" of such chains in the world
-

Quoting Andz (Reply 12):
there's nothing better than standing in a cobbled street with a Bratwurst roll

but THAT is not the thing of England but of Switzerland and Germany
-
 
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14):
but THAT is not the thing of England but of Switzerland and Germany

like I said...

Quoting Andz (Reply 12):
or in Germany, there's nothing better than standing in a cobbled street with a Bratwurst roll
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 15):
like I said...

Quoting Andz (Reply 12):
or in Germany, there's nothing better than standing in a cobbled street with a Bratwurst roll

-
ooops, sorry, I MISread the text and connected "missing here or in Germany" !
 
pelican
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
Is it? For what you get, prices are actually relatively high if you ask me.



Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 7):
I can't agree more, everything else than McD's 1 EUR offers and BK's 99er's is overpriced,

Sure, it's junk. Nontheless it is cheap. Just go to a supermarket and buy some minced beef and compare it to the prices at McDoof. There is a reason why McDoof often treats employees like shit and pays next to nothing - they have to keep the costs low.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 5):
You got a link? 340 in Italy??? Where? I'd have trouble beliving 50!

http://www.mcdonalds.it/ristoranti/index.asp

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
Your average person here weighs far too much and eats at the Clown three or four times a week.

There is a difference. I doubt the average person over here would go so often to McD. There are weeks were I've been that often at McD or BK but then there are much more weeks were I've been not once there. And I know many people (mostly a little bit older) who would never (!) eat at McD and the like.

pelican
 
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 7):
overpriced and a constant dropping quality

BINGO!
I thought Subway was terrific when they first opened many years ago, but as you mention, the price has gone too far up, and quality way too far down.....
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 17):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
Your average person here weighs far too much and eats at the Clown three or four times a week.

There is a difference. I doubt the average person over here would go so often to McD. There are weeks were I've been that often at McD or BK but then there are much more weeks were I've been not once there. And I know many people (mostly a little bit older) who would never (!) eat at McD and the like.

Count me among them. The burgers aren't even the worst of it.

The last time I had a McSwill burger was about five years ago, and the net result was I spent the balance of the afternoon communing with nature. It was an interesting experience but not a nice one, if you get my drift. Two years ago I went into one to have coffee in New York state, and in a moment of weakness ordered something off the breakfast menu. Bleagghhhhhhhhh.

I'm something of a stickler about getting good ingredients. Sunday our usual market was closed for the holiday so I went to our alternative, which recently did away with their in house meat processing and started buying the prepackaged stuff from Dakota Dunes, the same stuff they sell at Walmart. I'd forgotten....the stuff LOOKS funny, the texture's all wrong, and the steaks look positively bad. Of course you can't give the stuff a discreet smell, either.

But I bought some burger meat anyway. It did not taste very good.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
It's easy, it's cheap, and it's American

I always find it funny that in Europe, stuff is advertised as being "American style". Here in the US, stuff is always advertised as "European style". Interesting how we both like "the other" products better  Smile

Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
Kebabs

 drool 
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Klaus
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 20):
I always find it funny that in Europe, stuff is advertised as being "American style". Here in the US, stuff is always advertised as "European style". Interesting how we both like "the other" products better

At least here it's a small exotic niche, not a widespread preference. I know a supermarket which actually has one small shelf with american food products, but I've not seen it elsewhere so far.

And after a look at the ingredient lists my temptation to try some of them quickly waned. Of course the selection was geared towards US brand name junk food (Pop Tarts, Oreos and similar stuff), but fat, sugar and industrial ingredients figured even larger than usual.
 
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
At least here it's a small exotic niche, not a widespread preference. I know a supermarket which actually has one small shelf with american food products, but I've not seen it elsewhere so far.

I didn't mean actual American products, but I know in Norway, they have "American pan pizza", "American this", "American that"  Smile
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halls120
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:21 pm

Couldn't agree more that the export of American fast food is one of the worst things we've done to the rest of the world.

Having said that, what I don't get is why the US home outlet of Burger King doesn't use the advertising campaign used in at least parts of Europe. Last fall I split a gut laughing at the first "Why eat like a clown when you can eat like a King" poster at a Scottish BK outlet.

US advertising is way too conservative.
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Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 20):
I always find it funny that in Europe, stuff is advertised as being "American style". Here in the US, stuff is always advertised as "European style". Interesting how we both like "the other" products better

At least here it's a small exotic niche, not a widespread preference. I know a supermarket which actually has one small shelf with american food products, but I've not seen it elsewhere so far.

And after a look at the ingredient lists my temptation to try some of them quickly waned. Of course the selection was geared towards US brand name junk food (Pop Tarts, Oreos and similar stuff), but fat, sugar and industrial ingredients figured even larger than usual.

That sounds about like the local super here. There is an area that houses brands that the local Bosnian expat community goes gaga over....nothing like a taste of home. There are a good number of ethnic markets here-Oriental and Mexican. Good places to shop.

It is not hard to get good quality food here in the states. You merely have to make the decision to prepare your own food as often as you can from fresh ingredients. You are probably not going to get healthy food in a package unless it's over in the organic section or the local natural foods coop.

I believe that the worst thing that ever happened to good eating is the microwave oven. I used to go to a kosher place in Jersey for the latkes, made fresh. Then they started making them up in advance and nuking them in the microwave-bleagghhhhh.

What's really pathetic is the amount of frozen prepared entrees-they take up nearly a whole aisle. I can always tell bachelors and old maids from the contents of the grocery cart. The guys have cheap beer and cheap frozen entrees, the women have cheap chardonnay and *healthy choice* frozen entrees. Although calling frozen dinners *healthy* is an oxymoron.
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sebolino
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Righ

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
In the home of haute cuisine or at least good eating, I was able to do a straw poll and found that there were +640 McDonalds in France, 1,200 in Germany, 80 in Denmark and 340 or so in Italy, home of the Slow Food movement.

You know, there are also good restaurants and even very good restaurants in the states. It doesn't mean that Americans are gourmets.  Big grin
 
Klaus
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 24):
I believe that the worst thing that ever happened to good eating is the microwave oven. I used to go to a kosher place in Jersey for the latkes, made fresh. Then they started making them up in advance and nuking them in the microwave-bleagghhhhh.

I'll have to agree there. High-powered radar emitters are for navigation, not for cooking!  mischievous 

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 25):
You know, there are also good restaurants and even very good restaurants in the states. It doesn't mean that Americans are gourmets.

Nor are "the" french. Some are, some aren't.
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
I'll have to agree there. High-powered radar emitters are for navigation, not for cooking!

How the microwave oven was developed is an interesting story that has nothing to do with food. During World War 2, the Raytheon Company in the states was doing development work on a device known as a cavity magnetron.

The cavity magnetron is a specialized vacuum tube or valve, and it was invented and forgotten about in the 1920s because nobvody had any idea of a use for it. The Brits figured out that the cavity magnetron could produce very high frequency, short wavelength radio waves that made for a more efficient radar. They brought the cavity magnetron back to the states from whence the idea sprang, and work started immediately that gave the Allies a lead in radar technology that was one of the keys to winning the war-if indeed that is what happened.

As the story goes, Raytheon was doing cavity magnetron work in the states, and they had one on test. A vice president walked into the test area and found that a Hershey bar in his pocket had melted. He immediately knew what had happened and shelved the idea for post war work.

After the war ended Raytheon developed the first microwave ovens and good eating has never recovered.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 25):
It doesn't mean that Americans are gourmets. Big grin

some sure ARE. But it basically means that there is a clientele in the USA who appreciates good eating. And that is all what actually counts.
 
Klaus
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 27):
After the war ended Raytheon developed the first microwave ovens and good eating has never recovered.

Well put. But there are still pockets of resistance all over the globe...!  mischievous 
(Although capacitance would probably work even better. )
 
N231YE
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
High-powered radar emitters are for navigation, not for cooking!

Hey, college students like me live off this life-essential device!

Otherwise, we'd be using the 5-minute hot dog cooker my grandmother had (put two electrodes at either end...and whola, its cooked).
 
Banco
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 22):
"American pan pizza",

Ah, well my rather twisted sense of humour nearly caused a riot in Naples (the home of pizza in case you weren't aware) by telling them that New York did a far better pizza than they did... Big grin

Mind you, I do think it's true.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28):
Quoting Sebolino (Reply 25):
It doesn't mean that Americans are gourmets. Big grin

some sure ARE. But it basically means that there is a clientele in the USA who appreciates good eating. And that is all what actually counts.

Well, you don't have to be a gourmet in the classical sense to appreciate good simple fare prepared with attention to detail and care. Sometimes the experience is as important as what's actually on the plate.

I hardly think that a classical gourmet would feel at home with a picnic table load of Chesapeake Bay crabs or Louisiana crawdads, bottles of beer, pots of melted butter and mallets to crack them and eat with your fingers, but it is good eating. Likewise a nice moufaletta as only people in Noo awlins know how to make it.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
Well put. But there are still pockets of resistance all over the globe...!
(Although capacitance would probably work even better. )

Spoken like a true Sparky.


 Wink  Wink  Wink
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ozglobal
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Righ

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):

So tell me Europe.....why DO you like the stuff so much??? Do we file this under the heading "Feels so wrong it must be right"?

We don't. I've never heard a positive word said about it. They are used in Paris 50% by tourists and the rest are stressed locals who have, as has been explained, given into convenience for the sake of health, nutrition, aesthetics and just about all else.
Why are the outlets here? For the same reason they are everywhere else: extremely powerful and aggressive lobbying and marketing machine, exploiting the worst aspects of our lack of self respect and self discipline. A string of McDonald's is, on the face of a society, a bad case of acne.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
"Feels so wrong it must be right"

I think this sums it up nicely.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
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sebolino
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Righ

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 35):
Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
"Feels so wrong it must be right"

I think this sums it up nicely.

Now, seriously, I don't understand your point. You say that "we like it so much" because there are 600 Mac DO in France ?
But there are 10000 restaurants in France, hundreds of kebab restaurants, hundreds of sandwich shops ...
So, what do we "like so much" ? I'm confused ... (not really in fact  Smile )

It smells like cheap cliché and easy generalization.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:33 pm

I like the McDonalds sign in Rothenburg ob der Tauber  Smile



Beautiful city if you haven't been there  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
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sebolino
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 27):
After the war ended Raytheon developed the first microwave ovens and good eating has never recovered.

Well put. But there are still pockets of resistance all over the globe...!
(Although capacitance would probably work even better. )

He he, well said.

Microwave is really useful, but only to heat water.
 
halls120
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 38):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 27):
After the war ended Raytheon developed the first microwave ovens and good eating has never recovered.

Well put. But there are still pockets of resistance all over the globe...!
(Although capacitance would probably work even better. )

He he, well said.

Microwave is really useful, but only to heat water.

You can add popcorn to the list.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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sebolino
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
You can add popcorn to the list.

Actually, I don't use it anymore for anything else than water, even milk or coffee, because I read that the very special way it uses to heat things (higher level of energy than convection heating - rotation instead of vibration) may degrade some molecules into not so good products.
Water is not degraded into 02 + H2 (hopefully  Smile ), so it's safe.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
You can add popcorn to the list.

Actually, microwaving popcorn may not be such a good idea. The perfluorinated chemicals used in Teflon are also used to line those popcorn bags. It has been shown that the rapid temperature increase that takes place in the microwave oven can release far more perfluorinated chemicals than conventional heating of a Teflon pan.

Source: Environ. Sci. Technol., 40(1), p. 4.

The jury is still out on defining their toxicity, but early indications are that they ain't all that good for you.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 38):
Microwave is really useful, but only to heat water.

while it of course has its limits, and it sometimes may be advisable to do the "heating" per pan etc, you can do so much and produce such excellent things with the microwave (EXCEPT to heat water) that I regard it as not only practical but a real blessing
-

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 40):
even milk or coffee,

while I would not do so with either
-
 
CastleIsland
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 36):
Now, seriously, I don't understand your point. You say that "we like it so much" because there are 600 Mac DO in France ?

All I'm saying is that when we've gotten to the point where there's a McPoop at the Tower of London, Armegeddon cannot be far behind.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Banco
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 43):
when we've gotten to the point where there's a McPoop at the Tower of London

The whole area around there is a disaster. I mean, who the hell gave planning approval for the Thistle Hotel next door. It's hideous.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 36):
Now, seriously, I don't understand your point. You say that "we like it so much" because there are 600 Mac DO in France ?
But there are 10000 restaurants in France, hundreds of kebab restaurants, hundreds of sandwich shops ...
So, what do we "like so much" ? I'm confused ... (not really in fact )

It smells like cheap cliché and easy generalization.

Well, there is plenty of cheap cliches and easy generalizations around a.net, only it usually runs in the other direction.

I mean, we have plenty of good places to eat here-how could you not, with 300 million people from all over the globe, some who know how to cook? But we already know why a lot of us spend too much time at the Clown's.

But we're under no misapprehension about how cultured we are and we're not trading on our reputations for haute cuisine and high culture either because someone from your side of the pond would quickly disabuse us of that notion, thank you very much.

See, it's like finding out that your brother-you know, the one who always sits in the front of the class and never raises hell-it's like finding out he's got an obsession with Anna Nicole Smith's feet.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Dougloid
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 40):
Actually, I don't use it anymore for anything else than water, even milk or coffee, because I read that the very special way it uses to heat things (higher level of energy than convection heating - rotation instead of vibration) may degrade some molecules into not so good products.
Water is not degraded into 02 + H2 (hopefully ), so it's safe.

To tell you the truth I don't even like using it for that. You can end up superheating the water and when you put something in the cup it flashes and makes a mess. I just go ahead on and stick the Revere Ware tea kettle on if it's hot water I want.

I stand firmly behind my statement that good eating never recovered from the introduction of the microwave oven.

Howevah.....howevah, mah felluh Amurricuns

I am a friend of General Ned Ludd. My old man always said I was working on a doctorate in obsolete technology. He was not far wrong.


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If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
the Thistle Hotel next door. It's hideous.

I tried to find a sensible picture of that hotel on the net, but only found one photo from a heavy distance and another one where it is the background of the Tower. From those photos I might say it is not really hideous but a bit too heavy. Its colours and style fit with the Tower in a way. Or is it uglier when being near it ?
-
And here for comparison some other buildings in that area :
-
http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TowerBridge/images/interface/background_masthead_plain.gif
including the HMS "Belfast", which still is nicer than most other "structures" around it !
-
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 46):
tea kettle on if it's hot water I want.

tea and coffee should NOT be done by the microwave !  yuck 
- but to re-warm something pre-prepared, it is a solution, for instance a normally prepared soup, etc
-


Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):
I mean, we have plenty of good places to eat here-how could you not, with 300 million people from all over the globe, some who know how to cook? But we already know why a lot of us spend too much time at the Clown's.
--
But we're under no misapprehension about how cultured we are and we're not trading on our reputations for haute cuisine and high culture either because someone from your side of the pond would quickly disabuse us of that notion, thank you very much.

-
You misunderstand the French ! Being "attacked" by US-Americans gives them a kind of "pleasure" and pride. Far more interesting is to tell French people "well, you see, your cuisine is nice, but the Italian cuisine is better" ! Just then go into hiding immediately !!  rotfl   rotfl   duck   duck 
-

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 46):
good eating never recovered from the introduction of the microwave oven

NO, good eating NEVER suffered from the microwave-oven, but whenever any sales-person in a supermarket will tell you how easy that machine is, it is a computerized machine and therefore a bit tricky. But if used sensibly and carefully and with appropriate restraint, it HELPS the good eating.
-
 
Banco
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RE: European Eating-Feels So Wrong It Must Be Right?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 47):
Or is it uglier when being near it ?

If you stand on Tower Bridge and look towards the Tower, you have this 1,000 year old wonderful building, and a concrete monstrosity right behind it. It's one of those buildings that keeps winning in the "Should be knocked down tomorrow morning" polls that run occasionally.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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