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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 99):
Nice, how about answering the other questions then too? You can do it if you try.

Let's do a little review:

A few posts up, Andes said that what Pelosi did was "precedent-setting". I said, in return, that no, it was not "precedent-setting", and gave a link to an article documenting a trip Hastert went on (before he was Speaker) that Gingrich (as Speaker) authorized.

Now, Pelosi has done nothing comparable. If you can find it, post it. M'kay?
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 100):
Let's do a little review:

Yes, Lets:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 93):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 92):
Nancy Pelosi can talk all she wants but unless she has the "big stick" she's wasting her time. This is one of the reasons why it's not her job as Speaker.

I guess you'd prefer the "Gingrich-style"--go to a country and tell them to bypass the president entirely.



Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 96):
So I guess what your saying is that Nancy Pelosi can do this because Republican Speakers did this?

When you were five did your mom every tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

I guess it would be OK for GWB to get a BJ in the oval office. Clinton did it.

Scooter Libby lied to a grand jury but Clinton did it too so I guess it's ok then.

Tom Foley and a bunch of Democrats stole money from the House bank. I guess Republicans ought to have too.



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 100):
A few posts up, Andes said that what Pelosi did was "precedent-setting". I said, in return, that no, it was not "precedent-setting", and gave a link to an article documenting a trip Hastert went on (before he was Speaker) that Gingrich (as Speaker) authorized.

Now, Pelosi has done nothing comparable. If you can find it, post it. M'kay?

Seems to me you're changing the subject there 'Westy.

I'm not interested in what Andes said. I want to know, can Scooter Libby be let go, because Bill Clinton lied to a grand jury? Using your logic that Gingrich interfered with foreign policy, which I would think is wrong, Nancy Pelosi can now do so.

In AeroWesty's world do two wrongs make a right?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 101):
Seems to me you're changing the subject there 'Westy.

No, I'm sticking with the items which are the topic of this thread. I'm not delving into the world of blowjobs, which have nothing to do with this.

What Andes said is important, because it was my response to the tangent he brought up which is what you were questioning. Just read back through the posts.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 102):
No, I'm sticking with the items which are the topic of this thread

Well then in your world view clearly anything goes because if anyone has done it before than it's OK, regardless of the Constitution, or the law.

Note here I never disagreed with you that what Gingrich or Hastert did was wrong. I simply disagree with your premise that since Gingrich did it, Pelosi can.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 93):
I guess you'd prefer the "Gingrich-style"--go to a country and tell them to bypass the president entirely.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 103):
Well then in your world view clearly anything goes because if anyone has done it before than it's OK, regardless of the Constitution, or the law.

I have never once said that. I have said, "show me where Pelosi has done the same".

It's real simple.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 104):
I have never once said that. I have said, "show me where Pelosi has done the same".

Fine. Care to explain your reply 93 to me then because that's exactly what you imply by quoting me and your response to my quote.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 93):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 92):
Nancy Pelosi can talk all she wants but unless she has the "big stick" she's wasting her time. This is one of the reasons why it's not her job as Speaker.

I guess you'd prefer the "Gingrich-style"--go to a country and tell them to bypass the president entirely.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 105):
Fine. Care to explain your reply 93 to me then because that's exactly what you imply by quoting me and your response to my quote.

Oh Christ! You mean you can't read a "yeah right" smilie? Is that what this is all about?

*facepalm*
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
So let me understand you, you're saying the Iranian Nuclear project is justified because of the US? That previous to the Bush administration the Iranian's didn't want or need nuclear weapons?

I don't believe I ever used the word "justified". I don't think any nation's development of weapons capable of slaughtering tens of thousands people is EVER justified. Rather, I think that Iran's development of such weapons is inevitable when its position as arguably the most influental state in the region is threattened by a nuclear-armed Israel and an American presence (or for that matter, proxy-state) in Iraq.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
Interesting line of reasoning considering the Iranian project is much older than 6 years.

As I already said, the U.S. approach to Iran has been pretty much the same since the 1979 revolution. Don't forget that the U.S. played a huge role in arming Iraq (and Iran as well once Iraq started winning) in the war between those two countries in the 1980s. Iran has been given no reason to believe that the United States has any warm feelings towards it.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 89):
It's antagonism toward the US is not based on US internal politics. So your line of reasoning speaks more about your own political ideology than it does about the Iranians.

I don't believe that I ever said anything about U.S. internal politics. I believe that Iranian antagonism towards the U.S. is based largely on the memory of 25+ years of living under a U.S.-backed/armed dictator, 8+ years of living through a war with a U.S.-backed/armed Iraq and the fact that Israeli attacks on the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon over the last 40 or so years have been carried out using weapons supplied by massive amounts of American military aid. There are obviously complexities in there that I'm not hitting on, but I think I've made the point that I don't think the Iranian views on the U.S. have much to do with "internal politics". It's all about American foreign policy towards Iran and the Middle East at large.
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TheCol
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 82):
The president doesn't have to ask her. Part of her position is to oversee the national budget, and how the money is spent. A large portion of the budget goes into foreign affairs, and instead of issuing a blank check, part of the system of checks and balances requires her to review the outcome of previous dollars spent and the feasability of current budget requests.

As long as she stays in a "fact finding" role, most people won't have a problem with that. Though just because she is charged with overseeing the proper use of funds allocated to the State Department, it doesn't automatically give her the right to position herself in official political discussions between the United States and the international community without being specifically appointed to that role. That being said, I don't believe she overstepped her authority in Syria. However, I find it hard to believe that a "fact finding" mission to Iran pertains to her position.

Quoting Danny (Reply 88):

Yeah, look how far the rest of the international community has gotten with Iran and Syria.  Yeah sure
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 108):
I find it hard to believe that a "fact finding" mission to Iran pertains to her position.

She never said she was going. Just because the moderators won't correct the factual error in the thread title, doesn't mean you have to believe it.
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MaidensGator
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 97):
While Speaker, Gingrich sent Hastert to Colombia. It's very easy to keep up if you try.

I followed that link, and there is no mention of Gingrich.... Hastert went as a subcommittee chair, accompanied by other subcommittee members....
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 110):
I followed that link, and there is no mention of Gingrich.

Gingrich was Speaker in 1997, the date of the trip. If you'd like more info, it's here, one of many sources that's easily retrieved in a Google search:

Quoting http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/06/b1739137.html:

As a relatively junior member he was involved in an effort that seriously trampled on the rights of the executive. Speaker Gingrich had appointed him to work with other members of Congress to develop new policies regarding illegal narcotics. Before methamphetamine factories were springing up at every crossroads in America, there were many who believed that the nation's drug problems could be solved by pouring billions of dollars into a "war" against Colombian cocaine and poppy growers. Hastert and his group subscribed to that viewpoint.

The group would recommend to Gingrich how much money should be sent to Colombia each year, and Gingrich would in turn direct that that amount be added to the year-end omnibus spending bill. The process was extraordinary in the manner in which it circumvented normal Congressional procedures to protect against waste and ensure accountability. But it was far more extraordinary in the way the billions in U.S. assistance funds were being dispersed in Bogata.

House Foreign Affairs Committee staff, at the direction of the Hastert group, would fly to Colombia, meet with the nation’s anti-narcotics police and negotiate the levels and terms of assistance, the scope of the program and the kinds of equipment that would be needed. Rarely were the U.S. diplomatic personnel in our embassy in Bogata consulted about the "U.S." position in these negotiations, and in a number of instances they were excluded from or not even made aware of the meetings.
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TheCol
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 109):
She never said she was going.

I never said she was going, but the possibility is there.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 109):

She never said she was going.

Then she better tell the Iranians she is not going, because they are expecting her.

Iranian Parliament Ready for Talks with Nancy Pelosi

http://www.farsnews.com/English/newstext.php?nn=8601240204
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 113):
Then she better tell the Iranians she is not going, because they are expecting her.

"There's this family who goes into a talent agent's office ..."
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andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 114):
"There's this family who goes into a talent agent's office ..."

::coffee coming out of nose::
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 115):
::coffee coming out of nose::

Well, my work is done for today. Big grin Appletini time!
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andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 116):
Appletini time!

Is it noon already! ::smacks forehead::
 
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cedars747
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Bravo Pelosi ! Amazing lady and the world is in need for such courageous leaders

All my respect to Pelosi !

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
connies4ever
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 6):
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
it is important that we have a dialogue with him

Yeah, I agree guys - what a hefer. How dare that b**** try and engage diplomatically with a potential enemy. Send her to guantanamo, I say.

Where's the requirement for vitriol ? IIRC, in November the US voting public ludly said they preferred the Dems to the GOP. Maybe, just maybe, Grandma Pelosi (yes) is _more_ representative of the US voting public than anyone on the GOP side of the aisle. If that grates, well, you know, that's democracy, isn't it ? If you voted GOP and lost, well, 2008 is coming along fairly quickly. Get involved.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Honestly, I just don't get the mentality of some of the people.

Al Qaida = Bad.

Iraqi Insurgency = Bad.

Taliban = Bad.

Iran = Good?

Dr... what? They're killing American soldiers. How more black and white can it be? And it's very insulting to know that certain American leaders put more value on scoring cheap political points, than going after the murderers of decent American soldiers.

I know it's simplistic - but Iran tried to kill me. So... Iran has chosen to be my enemy. It's Barny simple, really. And what needs to be done is what we do with all murderous regimes - intense international pressure. And frankly, right now the pressure needs to be dialed up -- not toned down with "touchy feely get togethers" with Speaker Pelosi.

-UH60

UH60 -

You know I admire and respect your commitment to duty. However, let's turn your argument around. The US is training and assisting Baluchi insurgents in the SE of Iran. Also in the SW in Kuzestan. Some young draftee in Iranian fatigues may well get blown away tonight by someone using US weapons trained by a US advisor. His family will then become fairly, I would say, anti-American. So then is it fair to say for this unfortunate Iranian family the US has become the enemy ? If the guy lives, he may say, "America tried to kill me, so AMerica has chosen to be my enemy."

Does this logic get any of us any further ?

I realise fully that Mrs Pelosi carries a fair bit of baggage. So do all speakers, and, depending on which political colouration you have, maybe that Xes her out in your political calculus. Same could be said a few years ago for Mr Gingrich. I'm not sure Speaker Pelosi is trying to score cheap political points, although she'll likely take them if they're there, but, please, your administrations, time after time, have _refused_ to speak to Iran.

Always the justification is the embassy affair (about which Canadians know a few things). Never have I once heard, unless this aging memory is failing, an American say, "Well, you know, we _did_ help overthrow a democratically-elected government and install the Shah, who then proceeeded to murder 000's of innocent people." I'll bet you a cold beer that if America offered to re-engage diplomatically the Iranians would jump at the chance. And, once this was done, if American diplomats and news people could easily get into the field, they would find the Iranians are not nearly the rabid, foaming at the mouth anti-Americans as Faux News Channel paints them.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
She isn't the Secretary of State. She is the Speaker of the House. Unless the President and or Secretary of State asks her to undertake a diplomatic mission abroad, it isn't her job.


The most recent item I saw today was that an Iranian member of Parliament said he might invite her -- perhaps her counterpart in the Iranian parliament. If true, this would be a legislative-to-legislative visit, which is entirely proper. We do it with all manner of countries -- even ones we find somewhat odious.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
And since when have Republican appointees applied the letter when it comes to diplomatic convention? You should take a look at some of the Ambassadors the Bush White house sends out to countries that are ALLIES of the United States. On a regular basis, Ambassadors and Consulates publicly comment on the internal politics of their host nations within their host nations. I've personally seen American Ambassadors attempt to rebuke foreign lawmakers for a comment or proposed bill they're responsible for.


Thank you. If I were the Canadian Secretary of State, I would call in David Wilkins, that southern cracker, and tell him in no uncertain terms to SHUT THE F**K UP concerning Canadian internal politics. If he can't comply with that over 90 days, then it's persona non grata for him. What an ignorant ass. He's lucky he's a bagman for W.

Sorry to ramble on, but there's a lot of stuff in this thread. I may lob a couple more bombs in.

Look, politics and such gets people riled at times. But let's all keep some perspective.
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andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 119):
"Well, you know, we _did_ help overthrow a democratically-elected government and install the Shah, who then proceeeded to murder 000's of innocent people."

Perhaps you did not read the whole thread?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 74):
"On April 28, 1951, Mossadegh, on the Shah's suggestion, was named Prime Minister of Iran by a vote of 79-12 by the democratically elected legislative Iranian body known as the Majlis and the parliament's vote had been accepted by the Shah as legitimate at that time. However, In August of 1953 Mossadegh attempted to convince the Shah to leave the country."

(The rest of the story is complicated)

"Allied and Soviet command forced Reza Shah to abdicate in favor of his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. He replaced his father on the throne on September 16, 1941."

There are some areas that don't even call what happened a coup, as the system of government remained unchanged. But the Shah had been in power for 12 years prior to your claim of being 'installed' by the US.

And I take it that the mullahs have not killed the 1000s like the Shah, right?
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 111):
House Foreign Affairs Committee staff, at the direction of the Hastert group, would fly to Colombia, meet with the nation's anti-narcotics police



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 100):
Andes said that what Pelosi did was "precedent-setting". I said, in return, that no, it was not "precedent-setting", and gave a link to an article documenting a trip Hastert went on

Thanks for posting the story Westy... I can't agree it was "precedent setting" because I don't equate meeting with anti-narcotics police with meeting a head of state...

Even the Washington Post has called Pelosi a "fool" for her trip to Syria. I wouldn't argue her right to make the trip, and certainly wouldn't call it criminal, as some have. But as Speaker of the House, conducting foreign policy is not appropriate. If she makes clear that she cannot speak on behalf of the US, that's one thing. But holding herself out as a person who can make US foreign policy is not proper...

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 119):
Maybe, just maybe, Grandma Pelosi (yes) is _more_ representative of the US voting public than anyone on the GOP side of the aisle. If that grates, well, you know, that's democracy, isn't it ?

If she'd been elected President I might agree with you. The US Constitution specifically delegates foreign policy to the Executive Branch, with oversight by the Senate. Ms. Pelosi is a member of neither....

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 119):
The most recent item I saw today was that an Iranian member of Parliament said he might invite her -- perhaps her counterpart in the Iranian parliament. If true, this would be a legislative-to-legislative visit, which is entirely proper.

Totally improper when the US and Iran do not have diplomatic relations. Ms. Pelosi has plenty to do in areas that are within her purview. I'd suggest she get busy with them instead of wasting time trying to establish an unofficial foreign policy.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 121):
I can't agree it was "precedent setting" because I don't equate meeting with anti-narcotics police with meeting a head of state.

I've never claimed what Pelosi did was precedent-setting. However, what the Gingrich/Hastert team did was bypass the foreign policy of the United States (that's what we were talking about, remember?), and set the budget and activity for how a foreign policy objective would be carried out. It doesn't matter if they met with the head of state or not, they met with those in the foreign country who carried out their own objectives, usurping the executive branch.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting CO777ER (Reply 75):
Out of curiosity, why is she interfering with United States Foreign Policy?

Because the majority of the US people are tired of Bush pretending he's a bully playing a never-ending playground game of cowboy showdown.

Because Condi Rice has her head so far up Bush's ass that she'd massage his prostate if she licked her lips. Rice doesn't do a god damned thing except burn up JP-8 and wear out C-32's. She's the most worthless, do-nothing Secretary of State since Christian Herter.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 123):
Because the majority of the US people are tired of Bush pretending he's a bully playing a never-ending playground game of cowboy showdown.

To bad.

The central issue is that the President (George W. Bush in this case) is the only elected official that represents the entire country. Therefore he is the only one with the authority to send representatives to act in the United States behalf.

Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker of the House, but she still represents only the 8th Congressional District of California. She has no authority as Lantos says to implement a separate Democrat Foreign policy. Period end of story.

No matter how much some would like her and the Democrats win in November to be some kind of take over from the White House you all have to wait until 2008.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 124):
The central issue is that the President (George W. Bush in this case) is the only elected official that represents the entire country.

At what point do we the people get to have him declared insane due to an obsessive-compulsive fixation on a false reality, irrational delusions of grandeur, superiority, and unobtainable goals?

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 124):
Therefore he is the only one with the authority to send representatives to act in the United States behalf.

Who says she can't go for a visit? Is she signing any treaties or agreements? Is she making any tangible deals or trades? Is she making any promises on behalf of the US government?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:45 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 124):
She has no authority as Lantos says to implement a separate Democrat Foreign policy. Period end of story.

Tom Lantos is a crackpot. Always has been, and probably always will be. He also does not speak for the Speaker of the House.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 126):
Tom Lantos is a crackpot. Always has been, and probably always will be. He also does not speak for the Speaker of the House.

That doesn't speak well for the Democrats then, they made him the chairman of the House Foreign relations Committee. Does AsstChiefMark know this guy is a crackpot so he can try to have him removed aswell?

Rep. Tom Lantos, a San Mateo Democrat and chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee who is accompanying Pelosi , said during the group's visit to Israel on Sunday, "We have an alternative Democratic foreign policy. I view my job as beginning with restoring overseas credibility and respect for the United States."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...4/03/MNGTFP0JOK1.DTL&type=politics

Seems to me that if he's travelling with Nancy in her delegation and saying stuff like this, and she's not telling him to shut up, he might be speaking for her.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 127):
chairman of the House Foreign relations Committee.

Holy Hannah! The House has a "Foreign Relations Committee"!!

::cue the string of folks who've said the House has no business dealing in foreign affairs::  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

I've been waiting ... perched, mind you ... for one of you guys to bring this up!

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 127):
"We have an alternative Democratic foreign policy. I view my job as beginning with restoring overseas credibility and respect for the United States."

Your link doesn't work for me to read the entire article, but it as long as the House isn't putting forth their policy independent of the executive branch, as Gingrich/Hastert & Co. did, they may develop whatever policy they please.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 128):
Holy Hannah! The House has a "Foreign Relations Committee"!!

Oh my you got me I completely forgot about that pesky advise and consent clause.

The House has an Armed Services Committee too. Should we turn over the Military to the Congress as well. We can have 535 Commanders in Chief then?

Seriously, IF you can't tell the difference between the Congress's role and the Executive role then you should try sitting in on a 7th grade Civics class because you missed that day.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 128):
Your link doesn't work for me to read the entire article, but it as long as the House isn't putting forth their policy independent of the executive branch,

I agree.

Yet that's exactly what Tom Lantos is saying he and Nancy WANT to do. I'm glad you finally understand my point.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Yet that's exactly what Tom Lantos is saying he and Nancy WANT to do.

Wanting and doing are two separate things. As I've said from the beginning of this thread, show me where Speaker Pelosi has taken foreign policy out of the hands of the executive branch. A visit with a head of state, something Speakers of the House have done for eons, doesn't count. I could give you pages of links where previous Speakers have met with foreign leaders, including Heads of State.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
The House has an Armed Services Committee too. Should we turn over the Military to the Congress as well. We can have 535 Commanders in Chief then?

Nope! And I've made myself clear on that in other threads. War shouldn't be administered by committee. Period.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Oh my you got me I completely forgot about that pesky advise and consent clause.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Dude, just go back through this thread and read the number of people who've been hopping up and down saying the House has no business in foreign affairs. Really, you made my weekend!
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Seriously, IF you can't tell the difference between the Congress's role and the Executive role then you should try sitting in on a 7th grade Civics class because you missed that day.

You can thank that great, honest Republican, Richard Nixon, for Congress' self-assuming and increased role in oversight of the Executive Branch. I'm quite satisfied in them keeping the crooks in check.

[Edited 2007-04-14 05:37:47]
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 130):
War shouldn't be administered by committee. Period.

As I've said previously, War is just the violent extension of diplomacy. If you can't have a War run by committee you ought not have a foreign policy run by committee either.

I've said in other threads on related topics, Nancy Pelosi has every right to go on fact finding missions to foreign countries. It is well within Congress's role to do so.

My problem comes when she tries to execute foreign policy which she tried to do in Syria and might try again in Iran.

Her role does not extend that far.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 130):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Oh my you got me I completely forgot about that pesky advise and consent clause.



Dude, just go back through this thread and read the number of people who've been hopping up and down saying the House has no business in foreign affairs. Really, you made my weekend!

Before I make your weekend please note the sarcasm in my previous statement.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 132):
My problem comes when she tries to execute foreign policy which she tried to do in Syria and might try again in Iran.

132 replies so far, and no list of what Speaker Pelosi did in Syria to "execute foreign policy" that was in any way in opposition to the stated goals of the current administration. There are plenty of articles available which state the message she brought to Pres. Assad, none of them are in opposition to our stated foreign policy goals.

But, since no one has taken me up on my offer to list them, perhaps you will, since you believe she has. Here's a template for you:

1)

2)

3)

4)

Have at it, my man!
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 133):

Dude, we had like two threads going on that issue.

Use your search button.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 128):
Your link doesn't work for me to read the entire article, but it as long as the House isn't putting forth their policy independent of the executive branch,

I agree.

Yet that's exactly what Tom Lantos is saying he and Nancy WANT to do. I'm glad you finally understand my point.

Case closed thank you for agreeing with us Aerowesty.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 134):
Dude, we had like two threads going on that issue.

Use your search button.

 rotfl   rotfl 

Wow, you can't list em, can you? Love it, sweet cheeks. You can't list one single item that Pelosi did that went against the stated foreign policy of the current administration. That's what your whole case rests on, and you've got nothing to show other than "search".
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 135):

Oh Yawn.

Get a hobby, man really.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 136):
Get a hobby, man really.

I have many, one is called keeping people's feet to the fire. Obviously, you got burned, cos you can't even make heads or tails out of what Pelosi did or didn't do.

'ta.
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OU812
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 134):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 129):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 128):
Your link doesn't work for me to read the entire article, but it as long as the House isn't putting forth their policy independent of the executive branch,

I agree.

Yet that's exactly what Tom Lantos is saying he and Nancy WANT to do. I'm glad you finally understand my point.

Case closed thank you for agreeing with us Aerowesty.

 rotfl 

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 137):
Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 136):
Get a hobby, man really.

I have many, one is called keeping people's feet to the fire. Obviously, you got burned, cos you can't even make heads or tails out of what Pelosi did or didn't do.

AeroWesty,
With over 12,000 posts in just over 2 years I doubt it!

On my way back from Cape May NJ early this afternoon. You should have heard what former Democratic NYC Major Ed Koch was saying about Nancy Pelosi's heavy handed trip to Syria on Bloomberg radio. Let me tell you, he does not , at all hold Pelosi in high regard.

PS.. The only ones who got burned were US efforts on the war on terror & our soldiers fighting for our freedom. Pelosi's [the neophyte] trip to the mid east only emboldened our enemy & set us back months if not years. Wish you could see that! Her actions are f-ing disgraceful!!!

End of story!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 138):
On my way back from Cape May NJ early this afternoon. You should have heard what former Democratic NYC Major Ed Koch was saying about Nancy Pelosi's heavy handed trip to Syria on Bloomberg radio. Let me tell you, he does not , at all hold Pelosi in high regard.

Great, another one from the peanut gallery who can't make a simple list of what Pelosi did wrong in Syria. Kudos.
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OU812
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 139):
Great, another one from the peanut gallery who can't make a simple list of what Pelosi did wrong in Syria. Kudos.

With respect westy,
I & many others have brought to light a good # of reasons why Pelosi's trip was counterproductivee & foolish. All you have to do is read the thread again & the many articles re. Pelosi's trip that were released in the press expressing disappointment. However, since you are such a partisan hack, you will not allow yourself to acknowledge Pelosi's many blunders! I just hope that people that share your subjective way of thinking are few in number for the sake of mankind.
 
OU812
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 139):
Great, another one from the peanut gallery who can't make a simple list of what Pelosi did wrong in Syria. Kudos.

Quoting Pelosi:

"We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace,"

Do you agree with that westy?
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4296
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 6):
Personally, I would be offended by this.

Having been engaged my Iranian weaponry on numerous occasions, and considering the fact that Iran is actively involved in the insurgency's engagement of American troops in Iraq... it's not outrageous to say that Iran happily involved in the murder of American troops.

Is the Iranian government supplying insurgents? Or radical muslims who happen to be from Iran?

Something like 80% of illegal firearms in Canada are supplied by US smugglers. So a percentage of murders in Canada are done by weapons from the US smugglers. I'm not offended when my PM talks with your President.


Kris
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 140):
However, since you are such a partisan hack, you will not allow yourself to acknowledge Pelosi's many blunders!

Kind sir, this is a thread which misnamed as it is, is about Pelosi, not me. Perhaps you missed that in the ill-conceived title. If you cannot make a simple list of a few things Pelosi did while abroad that went against U.S. foreign policy, I feel very badly for you indeed.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 141):
"We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace,"

Do you agree with that westy?

My basic tenet in life is that hospitality goes both ways. Again, whether I agree with that statement or not is not the point. Proving that Pelosi did something which was out of mainstream of U.S. foreign policy is yours to prove.

So far, you've been unable to.

And I would advise you in the future to refrain from such statements about members of this forum such as "partisan hacks", as that could be taken as disrespecting another user, which is against the forum rules. Debate the ideas, the actions of the subject parties, not your view of the other posters. Thank you.
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halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 143):
Kind sir, this is a thread which misnamed as it is, is about Pelosi, not me. Perhaps you missed that in the ill-conceived title. If you cannot make a simple list of a few things Pelosi did while abroad that went against U.S. foreign policy, I feel very badly for you indeed.

Don't need a long list. It's simple. She went there and engaged in a diplomatic maneuver that was not sanctioned by the sitting U.S. President. That alone is enough to bring condemnation upon her.

This Washington Post Editorial says it all.

Quote:
Ms. Pelosi was criticized by President Bush for visiting Damascus at a time when the administration -- rightly or wrongly -- has frozen high-level contacts with Syria. Mr. Bush said that thanks to the speaker's freelancing Mr. Assad was getting mixed messages from the United States. Ms. Pelosi responded by pointing out that Republican congressmen had visited Syria without drawing presidential censure. That's true enough -- but those other congressmen didn't try to introduce a new U.S. diplomatic initiative in the Middle East. "We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace," Ms. Pelosi grandly declared.

Never mind that that statement is ludicrous: As any diplomat with knowledge of the region could have told Ms. Pelosi, Mr. Assad is a corrupt thug whose overriding priority at the moment is not peace with Israel but heading off U.N. charges that he orchestrated the murder of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri. The really striking development here is the attempt by a Democratic congressional leader to substitute her own foreign policy for that of a sitting Republican president. Two weeks ago Ms. Pelosi rammed legislation through the House of Representatives that would strip Mr. Bush of his authority as commander in chief to manage troop movements in Iraq. Now she is attempting to introduce a new Middle East policy that directly conflicts with that of the president. We have found much to criticize in Mr. Bush's military strategy and regional diplomacy. But Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 144):
She went there and engaged in a diplomatic maneuver that was not sanctioned by the sitting U.S. President. That alone is enough to bring condemnation upon her.

If you watched Speaker Pelosi on the "Tonight Show" the other night, Pres. Bush had full knowledge of her trip to Syria, and she only found out about his objections once she was on the road. To go to another country on a fact-finding mission, well within her scope as Speaker of the House, and say "we come in peace" is not an extraordinary nor outlandish thing to do.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a list of the things Pelosi did while in Syria which specifically went against the stated foreign policy goals of the United States. Again, I'll give you a template. Use more space if needed:

1)


2)


3)


4)


Cheers.
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halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 145):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 144):She went there and engaged in a diplomatic maneuver that was not sanctioned by the sitting U.S. President. That alone is enough to bring condemnation upon her.
If you watched Speaker Pelosi on the "Tonight Show" the other night, Pres. Bush had full knowledge of her trip to Syria, and she only found out about his objections once she was on the road. To go to another country on a fact-finding mission, well within her scope as Speaker of the House, and say "we come in peace" is not an extraordinary nor outlandish thing to do.

Normally, Westy, you are very observant. On this subject, I don't know what's happened.

Here again is what the WashPost said.

"Ms. Pelosi was criticized by President Bush for visiting Damascus at a time when the administration -- rightly or wrongly -- has frozen high-level contacts with Syria. Mr. Bush said that thanks to the speaker's freelancing Mr. Assad was getting mixed messages from the United States."

It doesn't matter that Bush might be wrong and Pelosi right.

It doesn't matter that Pelosi proclaimed she was there for peace.

The administration has decided that for the time being, there will be no official diplomatic engagement with Syria.

Pelosi conducted a diplomatic engagement with Syria.

The Washington Post, which has never endorsed a Republican for President, says that the trip was foolish, counterproductive and an attempt to establish a shadow presidency.

Why is that so difficult to understand?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 146):
Normally, Westy, you are very observant. On this subject, I don't know what's happened.

I'm very observant, and if you read through my posts, I have done nothing other than endeavored on a fact-finding mission of my own, without any partisan leaning. I've stuck to the facts, and asked questions when posters have attributed past and future abhorrent accusations against the Speaker. That should be clear to everyone. I've even gone so far as to state that IF she declares she's going to Iran, which she still has not done, I would criticize her if appropriate.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 146):
"Ms. Pelosi was criticized by President Bush for visiting Damascus at a time when the administration -- rightly or wrongly -- has frozen high-level contacts with Syria. Mr. Bush said that thanks to the speaker's freelancing Mr. Assad was getting mixed messages from the United States."

What were those mixed messages? I'd like a list. Speaker Pelosi has affirmed over and over that she carried no message that was out of the bounds of the stated foreign policy goals of the current administration.

Why is my request so difficult to understand and fulfill? I'd think it would be extremely easy to say, "Pelosi did this, she did that, she did this other thing." Going to Syria as part of her role of oversight, and advise and consent, doesn't count as interference at all. It's her duty under due diligence. Why this simple fact has eluded so many I've yet to comprehend.
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andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 147):
Speaker Pelosi has affirmed over and over that she carried no message that was out of the bounds of the stated foreign policy goals of the current administration.

What about the message of the third in line to the presidency being there against the wishes of the sitting president? She did not have to say anything at all for her visit in Syria to be seen against the wishes of the current administration.

"Representative Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, arrived in Damascus on Tuesday for a visit that the White House has strongly opposed and that many see as part of an attempt by the Democratic leader to sway American policy in the Middle East"

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/03/news/pelosi.php
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 147):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 146):"Ms. Pelosi was criticized by President Bush for visiting Damascus at a time when the administration -- rightly or wrongly -- has frozen high-level contacts with Syria. Mr. Bush said that thanks to the speaker's freelancing Mr. Assad was getting mixed messages from the United States."
What were those mixed messages? I'd like a list. Speaker Pelosi has affirmed over and over that she carried no message that was out of the bounds of the stated foreign policy goals of the current administration.

The fact that she was there, talking to Syria, was a message in itself.

it's like relations with US and Cuba. We aren't permitted to engage in bilateral negotiations with Cuba. When at multilateral gatherings, we can negotiate with them as long as there are other delegations present and participating. we can't approach them socially, but don't have to walk away if they approach us. (OK, I know what you are thinking, this is stupid. It is. but that's for another discussion) Point is, everyone in the room knows those are the rules. So if I had gone over to the Cuba delegation during the discussions, EVERYONE present would have noticed and thought, "wow, the US must be changing their position regarding Cuba." which would be wrong, it was in reality just an idiot American who didn't read the memo on negotiating instructions before leaving DC.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 147):
Why is my request so difficult to understand and fulfill? I'd think it would be extremely easy to say, "Pelosi did this, she did that, she did this other thing." Going to Syria as part of her role of oversight, and advise and consent, doesn't count as interference at all. It's her duty under due diligence. Why this simple fact has eluded so many I've yet to comprehend.

Evidently the Post, among others, disagrees with you. The fact she went was apparently enough to qualify as interference.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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