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ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:54 am

Round 2!  box 



Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Tom Lantos, D-San Mateo, just back from a trip to Syria that sparked sharp criticism from Republicans and the Bush administration, suggested Tuesday that they may be interested in taking another diplomatic trip - to open a dialogue with Iran.
*******
"Speaking just for myself, I would be ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning, because however objectionable, unfair and inaccurate many of (Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's) statements are, it is important that we have a dialogue with him,''

FULL ARTICLE HERE
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:59 am

IMO she's really on the edge of the cliff here.

Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

Dialogue my ass, get rid of your Nuke program and there won't be any need for dialogue.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Pope
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:00 am

I say let her go. Never interrupt a fool with a rope.

I wish her luck. Maybe she can negotiate an agreement along the lines that Secretary Albright worked out with North Korea when she gave them a ton of aid in consideration of them abandoning their nuclear program. We all know how that turned out.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
charlienorth
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:04 am

Maybe they'll keep her  Smile
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
tz757300
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 3):
Maybe they'll keep her

Wouldn't that be a godsend
 
OU812
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting Lantos from the article:

Lantos noted that "with the speaker's support,'' he has co-sponsored legislation in the House that calls for making available to all countries -- including Iran -- nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes under international oversight by establishing a "nuclear fuel bank."

"So if the Iranian president says that he is developing (nuclear material) for peaceful purposes, we are assisting him in that process,'' said Lantos, who anticipated the legislation could pass as early as May.


Is this guy [Lantos] for F-ing real??? Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't Carter under Clinton try a very similar deal with N Korea back in 94'. In which the West provided millions of dollars worth of aid & even a nuclear reactor in exchange for peace. Then only to have the N Koreans use those reactors as nuclear blackmail against the West. IMHO, the Iranian regime has proven time & time again they are worse than N Korea & Lantos is willing to trust the current Iranian leadership. I'm speechless!

Well this proves it. Pelosi is the #1 useful idiot & Lantos #2!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/7/164846.shtml

North Korea Nukes Clinton Legacy
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, Jan. 8, 2003
Asian Arms Race Result of Appeasement Policy

Carter met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in Pyongyang and returned to America waving a piece of paper and declaring peace in our time. Kim, according to Carter, had agreed to stop his nuclear weapons development.

The Clinton appeasement program for North Korea included hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, food, oil and even a nuclear reactor. However, the agreement was flawed and lacked even the most informal means of verification.

In return, Kim elected to starve his people while using the American aid to build uranium bombs. The lowest estimate is that Kim starved to death over 1 million of his own people, even with the U.S. aid program.

 
QANTASforever
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
it is important that we have a dialogue with him

Yeah, I agree guys - what a hefer. How dare that b**** try and engage diplomatically with a potential enemy. Send her to guantanamo, I say.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Tom Lantos, D-San Mateo, just back from a trip to Syria that sparked sharp criticism from Republicans and the Bush administration, suggested Tuesday that they may be interested in taking another diplomatic trip - to open a dialogue with Iran.

*******
"Speaking just for myself, I would be ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning, because however objectionable, unfair and inaccurate many of (Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's) statements are, it is important that we have a dialogue with him,''

Personally, I would be offended by this.

Having been engaged my Iranian weaponry on numerous occasions, and considering the fact that Iran is actively involved in the insurgency's engagement of American troops in Iraq... it's not outrageous to say that Iran happily involved in the murder of American troops.

I have been engaged by Iranian supplied Manpads multiple times, and I know at least two aircrews that were tragically killed by these same deadly weapons. So it's disconcerting when a major American political leader is hoping to run over there and have a "weekend retreat" with these thugs.

Until they stop supplying the insurgency, I will continue to consider these losers as the enemy. And you don't play lovey-dovey with the enemy.

Plain and simple.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
OU812
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 6):
Yeah, I agree guys - what a hefer. How dare that b**** try and engage diplomatically with a potential enemy. Send her to guantanamo, I say.

I think your missing the point. What she is doing is very heavy handed. However, what concerns me more is their ill advised message they plan to share with the Iranian leader [ who publicly stated he wanted to wipe Israel off the map], that they [Pelosi & Lantos] trust the current Iranian regime with the ability to produce nuclear weapons. History as proven regimes such as Iran, Syria & N Korea cannot be trusted.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 5):
Quoting Lantos from the article:

Lantos noted that "with the speaker's support,'' he has co-sponsored legislation in the House that calls for making available to all countries -- including Iran -- nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes under international oversight by establishing a "nuclear fuel bank."

"So if the Iranian president says that he is developing (nuclear material) for peaceful purposes, we are assisting him in that process,'' said Lantos, who anticipated the legislation could pass as early as May.
 
kevi747
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 6):
Yeah, I agree guys - what a hefer. How dare that b**** try and engage diplomatically with a potential enemy.

Exactly! Imagine that, actually trying to learn something about your enemy. There's a word for that kind of behavior, what is it? Oh yeah....wise. And considering all the "progress" in foreign relations the Bush administration has achieved over the past 6 years I actually find her approach rather refreshing.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
coleplane
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

The Dems have a bad habit of setting new, such precedence. What about the unwritten rule that as a former President you don't criticize the current one. Call it a courtesy, a respect thing, or whatever... As for Pelosi, I wouldn't put anything past her. She's about as hard left as they come. Keep an eye on the news, there's a buzz she's not been totally forthcoming about what was said in Syria.
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
coleplane
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

The Dems have a bad habit of setting new, such precedence. What about the unwritten rule that as a former President you don't criticize the current one. Call it a courtesy, a respect thing, or whatever... As for Pelosi, I wouldn't put anything past her. She's about as hard left as they come. Keep an eye on the news, there's a buzz she's not been totally forthcoming about what was said in Syria.
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
"Speaking just for myself, I would be ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning, because however objectionable, unfair and inaccurate many of (Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's) statements are, it is important that we have a dialogue with him,''

Just for clarification purposes, it was Tom Lantos, not Ms. Pelosi who said the above quote.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):

Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

   true. I think there is so much frustration with the President not only because of all his blunders, but because he won't pass the Dem's Iraq bill.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 7):
Until they stop supplying the insurgency, I will continue to consider these losers as the enemy. And you don't play lovey-dovey with the enemy.

First off I want to say that I'm very sorry about the aircrews who were shot down by the Iranian supplied Manpads and that you had to be shot at by those cowards. There must be something done to stop the Iranians from supplying weapons to the Iraqi insurgents. My question to you is do you believe some dialogue with Iran is necessary? Or would you impose other measures against Iran.


I really don't understand this quote by Mr. Lantos:

"So if the Iranian president says that he is developing (nuclear material) for peaceful purposes, we are assisting him in that process,'' said Lantos, who anticipated the legislation could pass as early as May.

Makes no sense to me, what would be the reason behind this??

[edited for clarification]

Dave

[Edited 2007-04-12 03:00:37]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting Coleplane (Reply 10):
there's a buzz she's not been totally forthcoming about what was said in Syria.

There's a new flash . . . .

I'm quite sure - with no evidence whatsoever - the conversation with Assad went something like this "Yeah, Pres Assad, I think Bush is a screwball, and we'll have that bastard out in about 18 months, after that, you can go back to doing whatever you want in Lebanon, continue to screw with Israel, oh, and keep hiding the Iraqi WMDs, THanks, Love Nancy."
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 12):
Just for clarification purposes, it was Tom Lantos, not Ms. Pelosi who said the above quote.

 checkmark 

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 12):
I really don't understand this quote by Mr. Lantos:

I spent half my life in the Bay Area, and I still don't understand Tom Lantos.

It is amazing though, eh, maybe not ... Tom Lantos answers a rhetorical question at a press conference, and suddenly all the usual suspects already are packing her bags and have Pelosi One tanked up and ready to go. ::snicker::
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 12):
My question to you is do you believe some dialogue with Iran is necessary? Or would you impose other measures against Iran.

Honestly, I just don't get the mentality of some of the people.

Al Qaida = Bad.

Iraqi Insurgency = Bad.

Taliban = Bad.

Iran = Good?

Dr... what? They're killing American soldiers. How more black and white can it be? And it's very insulting to know that certain American leaders put more value on scoring cheap political points, than going after the murderers of decent American soldiers.

I know it's simplistic - but Iran tried to kill me. So... Iran has chosen to be my enemy. It's Barny simple, really. And what needs to be done is what we do with all murderous regimes - intense international pressure. And frankly, right now the pressure needs to be dialed up -- not toned down with "touchy feely get togethers" with Speaker Pelosi.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
And frankly, right now the pressure needs to be dialed up -- not toned down with "touchy feely get togethers" with Speaker Pelosi.

Can you quote the article where Speaker Pelosi said she was headed to Iran? Just quoting one line would be sufficient.
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MD-90
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

No, it's not, but she has the right to do it as a Congresswoman. She's third in line for the throne, after all.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
than going after the murderers of decent American soldiers.

There's no credible evidence that the Iranian government is organizing the murders of American soldiers.
 
tz757300
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
She's third in line for the throne, after all.

That doesn't really mean shit. If we want diplomatic talks, we'll send the Sec of State. That why we have those certain positions.
 
dl021
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 3):
Maybe they'll keep her

Do you think they'll say things about her as nice as what the Hamas terrorists were saying?

That should help her get re-elected in her district.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
There's no credible evidence that the Iranian government is organizing the murders of American soldiers

Popping up to split hairs? The Iranian government is spending their money and manpower to organize resistance and open dissension (which means violence in Iraq) to force their style of government on the Iraqis.

They are training, funding and supplying the Shiite factions in Iraq and sending them the equipment to kill our soldiers.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 18):
If we want diplomatic talks, we'll send the Sec of State. That why we have those certain positions.

Perhaps you can provide a quote in the article where Pelosi says she's going to Iran. No one else has been so far.
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tz757300
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):

Perhaps you can provide a quote in the article where Pelosi says she's going to Iran. No one else has been so far.

If you read my comment, I said if someone was going to do diplomatic talks or of the like, we'd send the sec. of state because thats her position. I'm fairly sure Pelosi isn't anyone close to that position, so I think she really shouldn't go, if that were the case.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 21):
I'm fairly sure Pelosi isn't anyone close to that position, so I think she really shouldn't go, if that were the case.

I read your comment. I'm simply asking, did you read any quote in the article where Pelosi said she's going to Iran. The thread is entitled "Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran", and you're responding in it. So, can you find a quote from her anywhere in the linked article?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
Perhaps you can provide a quote in the article where Pelosi says she's going to Iran

"Speaking just for myself, I would be ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning, because however objectionable, unfair and inaccurate many of (Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's) statements are, it is important that we have a dialogue with him,'' Lantos said. "Speaking for myself, I'm ready to go -- and knowing the speaker, I think that she might be.''

Pelosi did not dispute that statement. . ."
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
tz757300
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
So, can you find a quote from her anywhere in the linked article?

Leads me to..

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
"knowing the speaker, I think that she might be.''

which led to....

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

which led to...

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 21):
I'm fairly sure Pelosi isn't anyone close to that position, so I think she really shouldn't go, if that were the case.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Pelosi did not dispute that statement. . ."

Didn't dispute what? That Tom Lantos should get on a plane, or that it's important to have a dialogue with Ahmadinejad, or that she's ready to go to Iran?

Did she agree with whatever on her way back from a bathroom break, or sitting in the press conference, what? Usually these things come with a quote, like, "I'm just as ready as Tom Lantos to go to Iran." This is the Speaker of the House, afterall.
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halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Not her job. Never has been and never will be.

 checkmark  She is the Speaker of the House, not the Secretary of State. If she wants to be the latter, I suggest she wait until 2009, and ask President Clinton or Obama for the job.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 6):
Yeah, I agree guys - what a hefer. How dare that b**** try and engage diplomatically with a potential enemy.

She isn't the Secretary of State. She is the Speaker of the House. Unless the President and or Secretary of State asks her to undertake a diplomatic mission abroad, it isn't her job.

Quoting Coleplane (Reply 10):
The Dems have a bad habit of setting new, such precedence. What about the unwritten rule that as a former President you don't criticize the current one. Call it a courtesy, a respect thing, or whatever... As for Pelosi, I wouldn't put anything past her. She's about as hard left as they come. Keep an eye on the news, there's a buzz she's not been totally forthcoming about what was said in Syria.

If I were a republican legislator, I'd keep my mouth shut about Pelosi's galavanting around the country, and in 2009, start conducting my own private diplomacy, relying on the wonderful precedent supplied by Madame Speaker.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 12):
My question to you is do you believe some dialogue with Iran is necessary?

Yes. But not by the Speaker of the House acting on her own accord.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
No, it's not, but she has the right to do it as a Congresswoman. She's third in line for the throne, after all.

Wrong.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
I read your comment. I'm simply asking, did you read any quote in the article where Pelosi said she's going to Iran. The thread is entitled "Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran", and you're responding in it. So, can you find a quote from her anywhere in the linked article?

from the full article.

Quote:
"Speaking just for myself, I would be ready to get on a plane tomorrow morning, because however objectionable, unfair and inaccurate many of (Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's) statements are, it is important that we have a dialogue with him,'' Lantos said. "Speaking for myself, I'm ready to go -- and knowing the speaker, I think that she might be.''
Pelosi did not dispute that statement, and noted that Lantos -- a Hungarian-born survivor of the Holocaust -- brought "great experience, knowledge and judgment" to the recent bipartisan congressional delegation trip to Israel, the Palestinian territories, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia in addition to Syria.

So while Pelosi didn't say she was packing her bags, she didn't correct Lantos' statement that Pelosi would accompany him if he decided to go.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 25):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Pelosi did not dispute that statement. . ."

Didn't dispute what?

Oh, Lord . . . you're starting to sound like 77 . . . nevermind.  wink 

No need to split hairs or play mind games . . . you know, I know, and so does everyone else know Westy . . . .

I gotta go, off for the day. Pick this up tomorrow.

[Edited 2007-04-12 04:06:06]
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I spent half my life in the Bay Area, and I still don't understand Tom Lantos.

Haha.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
::snicker::

Bwhah. Why wait and blame Pelosi? Grab a snicker. HA HA ha ha. Anyone?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Dr... what? They're killing American soldiers. How more black and white can it be? And it's very insulting to know that certain American leaders put more value on scoring cheap political points, than going after the murderers of decent American soldiers.

 checkmark  x 1,000,000. Basically a summary of politics in DC at the moment.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
know it's simplistic - but Iran tried to kill me. So... Iran has chosen to be my enemy. It's Barny simple, really.

Not simplistic, just basic logic. I don't think too many people would disagree with you.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
And what needs to be done is what we do with all murderous regimes - intense international pressure. And frankly, right now the pressure needs to be dialed up -- not toned down with "touchy feely get togethers" with Speaker Pelosi.

Even though she hasn't made specific plans to go to Iran, I agree, and thanks for your answer.

If Speaker Pelosi will go to Iran I'd like to ask her a simple question. "Do you think the American people elected you so that you could go to Iran and have dialogue with PM Ahmadinejad"?

Frankly President Bush hasn't laid out a sufficient plan to deal with Iran yet. However, he still is the CIC. Instead of going to Iran, why don't political leaders from the Democratic party and Republican party come together and find a solution for this crisis ASAP so that the insurgents don't get weapons to kill our Troops. As well as a boatload of other problems.

Things are beginning to hit the fan, and it's time for someone to step up and do something about it.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
So while Pelosi didn't say she was packing her bags, she didn't correct Lantos' statement that Pelosi would accompany him if he decided to go.

No, it could have been any one of the three points in the previous paragraph. It could have even been that Pelosi was confirming that Lantos was speaking for himself.
International Homo of Mystery
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
No need to split hairs or play mind games . . . you know, I know, and so does everyone else know Westy

Well earlier you said this:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
I'm quite sure - with no evidence whatsoever - the conversation with Assad went something like this "Yeah, Pres Assad, I think Bush is a screwball, and we'll have that bastard out in about 18 months, after that, you can go back to doing whatever you want in Lebanon, continue to screw with Israel, oh, and keep hiding the Iraqi WMDs, THanks, Love Nancy."

Speaker Pelosi said that during her talks with Assad, she was in no way in disagreement with the goals of the current administration. So we have a written record of what the Speaker said she said, but you believe something completely different.

I'd like a quote, a simple quote, that says "I'm going to Iran" spoken by Speaker Pelosi, without all the supposion.
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halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 29):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):So while Pelosi didn't say she was packing her bags, she didn't correct Lantos' statement that Pelosi would accompany him if he decided to go.
No, it could have been any one of the three points in the previous paragraph. It could have even been that Pelosi was confirming that Lantos was speaking for himself.

Yes, but until Pelosi clarifies her statement more fully, she leaves herself open to the interpretation that she will accompany Lantos if he decides to become the alternate Secretary of State.

But a I said before, let them go. Let every democrat who thinks he/she can do the job better than the sitting Secretary of State pack their bags.

But when the shoe is on the other foot starting in 2009, the democrats will have NO room to bitch about it when a republican decides to conduct foreign policy on his/her own.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
Yes, but until Pelosi clarifies her statement more fully, she leaves herself open to the interpretation that she will accompany Lantos if he decides to become the alternate Secretary of State.

And that's the truest thing that's been said in this thread so far. Pelosi may not even be aware what was written. Remember the debacle over a 757 vs. a plane capable of flying nonstop to California. All we know is that we don't know anything due to a poorly written article.
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halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
All we know is that we don't know anything due to a poorly written article.

You mean professional journalists produce poorly written work product???  Wow!

I'm shocked!  crazy 

When did this start happening?  Wink
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 33):
You mean professional journalists produce poorly written work product???  

Shocking as it may seem, it does happen.  Wink

I've sent off an e-mail to the article's author to ask what Speaker Pelosi was not disputing. If I get an answer, I'll post it if you'd like.
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Falcon84
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 2):
Never interrupt a fool with a rope.

Your rope is ready any time you want to used it, Pope.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
There's no credible evidence that the Iranian government is organizing the murders of American soldiers.

I'll take UH60's in-theater experiences over your words, MD-90. I do believe Iran is bankrolling and arming many of the insurgents in Iraq, and that does make them our enemy right now. If the Speaker were to go on this trip, I'd tell her not to come back if she did. I had no problem with the Syrian trip. But with Iran pushing the envelope, and almost inviting conflict with the West, she should stay clear of that place. They obviously don't want to talk right now, they'd rather keep pushing for a fight.

Stay in D.C. this time, Madam Speaker. Let Condi handle this one.
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MD-90
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 19):
The Iranian government is spending their money and manpower to organize resistance and open dissension (which means violence in Iraq) to force their style of government on the Iraqis.

They are training, funding and supplying the Shiite factions in Iraq and sending them the equipment to kill our soldiers.

As alleged by our government, with NO concrete evidence, and of course, our government never lies to get a war started, does it?
 
halls120
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 36):
As alleged by our government, with NO concrete evidence, and of course, our government never lies to get a war started, does it?

And you believe the statements of the Iranian government?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
andessmf
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 36):
As alleged by our government

As alleged by soldiers in the field. Witness UH60.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
She isn't the Secretary of State. She is the Speaker of the House. Unless the President and or Secretary of State asks her to undertake a diplomatic mission abroad, it isn't her job.

And since when have Republican appointees applied the letter when it comes to diplomatic convention? You should take a look at some of the Ambassadors the Bush White house sends out to countries that are ALLIES of the United States. On a regular basis, Ambassadors and Consulates publicly comment on the internal politics of their host nations within their host nations. I've personally seen American Ambassadors attempt to rebuke foreign lawmakers for a comment or proposed bill they're responsible for.

In a world where engaging with other nations should be top of the list, it's been pushed aside in favour of sabre rattling, and vacant one-way rhetoric. I think Pelosi should discuss the situation with Iran.

You know, the USSR used to criticise the USA during the cold war about the fact that they often found it difficult to discern the official government line on issues of importance because there was so much chatter in the media, and from various government sources. It seems Bush has taken this to heart and expects everyone to speak with one voice. The problem with that is that if only one voice is to be heard - what happens if it's wrong?

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
cfalk
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):
Speaker Pelosi said that during her talks with Assad, she was in no way in disagreement with the goals of the current administration.

And you believe her?

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
And since when have Republican appointees applied the letter when it comes to diplomatic convention? You should take a look at some of the Ambassadors the Bush White house sends out to countries that are ALLIES of the United States. On a regular basis, Ambassadors and Consulates publicly comment on the internal politics of their host nations within their host nations. I've personally seen American Ambassadors attempt to rebuke foreign lawmakers for a comment or proposed bill they're responsible for.

We are talking about the Constitution here, not good manners. What Pelosi is doing is bordering on illegal. I'd love to hear the opinion of a Constitutional lawyer on this. If she goes to Iran and talks with Ahmedadinnerjacket without the consent of the administration, I'd like to see her arrested.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
In a world where engaging with other nations should be top of the list, it's been pushed aside in favour of sabre rattling, and vacant one-way rhetoric.

I am in absolute agreement that the US and Iran should be in direct contact, as well as North Korea, Cuba and other places. But Pelosi doing it is not her bloody job, and is interfering with the duties of those whose job it is..

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
The problem with that is that if only one voice is to be heard - what happens if it's wrong?

Completely irrelevant (not to mention entirely subjective). The Law is the Law, and nothing trumps the Constitution. The President is in charge of foreign policy, for better or worse. The Senate has a limited oversight role in foreign policy, but the House of Representatives and its speaker have ZERO, NADA, ZILCH in terms of foreign policy responsibility.

Pelosi going to Syria and Iran talking with their leaders is like allowing David Duke to act as the Israeli negotiator to
Arab-Israeli peace talks. There is a conflict of interest here. Pelosi has no desire at all to see Middle East tensions reduce while Bush is in office. She is a completely partisan political animal.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:46 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Dialogue my ass, get rid of your Nuke program and there won't be any need for dialogue.

Funny, I don't hear you calling on President Bush to dismantle the United States' nuclear program. If Iran has any reason to develop a nuclear weapon (and I'm not convinced they are), it's because certain American Presidential Administrations have made it abundantly clear that they're not exactly hesitant to use their massive military resources in the pursuit of policy objectives. Of course, those of you who think this country ought to be running the world don't have any problem with that.

Keep in mind that Iran has repeatedly offered to discuss this issue and President Bush has continually offered nothing but flat refusals. His dad put it best; "what we say goes".
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5791
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 40):
The Law is the Law, and nothing trumps the Constitution.

Except perhaps congress, the President, and the State Legislatures if they are so inclined.

Look, I don't think the legal invalidity of Pelosi's proposed actions have been justified, let alone the constitutional invalidity. Where in the constitution does it say that the Speaker of the House cannot represent the United States internationally and participate in discussions with foreign governments unilaterally or multilaterally? I've just read what some believe to be a relevant clause in the Logan Act (1799), but I'm not convinced that it precludes what Pelosi has done nor what she perhaps intends to do.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 40):
If she goes to Iran and talks with Ahmedadinnerjacket without the consent of the administration, I'd like to see her arrested.

Is that because you're offended by a possible breach of law, or you're offended by Pelosi's politics?

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
She isn't the Secretary of State. She is the Speaker of the House. Unless the President and or Secretary of State asks her to undertake a diplomatic mission abroad, it isn't her job.

And since when have Republican appointees applied the letter when it comes to diplomatic convention? You should take a look at some of the Ambassadors the Bush White house sends out to countries that are ALLIES of the United States. On a regular basis, Ambassadors and Consulates publicly comment on the internal politics of their host nations within their host nations. I've personally seen American Ambassadors attempt to rebuke foreign lawmakers for a comment or proposed bill they're responsible for.

Apples and oranges. US Ambassadors commenting on the internal politics of the host nation is not the same as a US legislator going to another country and engaging in diplomacy separate and apart from the administration.

BTW, ambassadors routinely comment on the internal politics of host nations. It happens under democratic as well as republican administrations, and it is often orchestrated from the State Department in Washington. I know, because I've seen cable traffic discussing planned interventions by our ambassadors.

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
In a world where engaging with other nations should be top of the list, it's been pushed aside in favour of sabre rattling, and vacant one-way rhetoric. I think Pelosi should discuss the situation with Iran.

Only if she has been asked to/authorized by the President. What part of separation of powers to do you not understand?

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 39):
You know, the USSR used to criticise the USA during the cold war about the fact that they often found it difficult to discern the official government line on issues of importance because there was so much chatter in the media, and from various government sources. It seems Bush has taken this to heart and expects everyone to speak with one voice. The problem with that is that if only one voice is to be heard - what happens if it's wrong?

We have elections every four years to take care of that problem.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 42):
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 40):
The Law is the Law, and nothing trumps the Constitution.

Except perhaps congress, the President, and the State Legislatures if they are so inclined.

You're kidding, right?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
777236ER
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
Oh, Lord . . . you're starting to sound like 77 . . . nevermind. wink

You mean well-spoken, considered and accurate? Yes, I agree!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5791
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Apples and oranges. US Ambassadors commenting on the internal politics of the host nation is not the same as a US legislator going to another country and engaging in diplomacy separate and apart from the administration.

Of course the two are different, but we're talking about diplomatic convention - and on that topic the two converge.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
BTW, ambassadors routinely comment on the internal politics of host nations.

To the media? Really?? That flies in the face what I've observed (with the exception of diplomatic missions from the United States) in my 10+ years of experience with government.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Only if she has been asked to/authorized by the President. What part of separation of powers to do you not understand?

I understand that there are Senators going to places like Afghanistan and Iraq, taking a very pragmatic approach to foreign policy. Well may you say that the Senate is involved in foreign policy due to it's responsibilities regarding oversight, but it is far from uncommon for legislative representatives whomever they may be, although removed from the executive branch, to pursue a foreign policy agenda. It does not defy law or the constitution, it simply defies convention (something that the United States does on a diplomatic basis already).

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
We have elections every four years to take care of that problem.

World affairs don't work on a four year to four year basis, they happen daily and require comment immediately. You can't expect alternative voices within your government to be silent on important issue just because a particular party is in the White House.

Diversity of comment is a good thing, as is dialogue.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
You're kidding, right?

You think I'm kidding when I say that the constitution can be amended?

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 45):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Apples and oranges. US Ambassadors commenting on the internal politics of the host nation is not the same as a US legislator going to another country and engaging in diplomacy separate and apart from the administration.

Of course the two are different, but we're talking about diplomatic convention - and on that topic the two converge.

No, they don't. That you can't see the issue suggests your fundamental lack of understanding of diplomacy and government.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 45):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
BTW, ambassadors routinely comment on the internal politics of host nations.

To the media? Really?? That flies in the face what I've observed (with the exception of diplomatic missions from the United States) in my 10+ years of experience with government.

Yes. You apparently haven't been very observant. As I said, I've seen the cable traffic discussing what the US ambassador should or should not say on a given subject. I've sat in on briefing session for potential and sitting ambassadors and chiefs of mission. I've served on dozens of US delegations to bilateral and multilateral meetings over the past 20 years, in case you were wondering where I get my information.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 45):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Only if she has been asked to/authorized by the President. What part of separation of powers to do you not understand?

I understand that there are Senators going to places like Afghanistan and Iraq, taking a very pragmatic approach to foreign policy.

Wow. pretty in depth knowledge you have.  Wink

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 45):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
We have elections every four years to take care of that problem.

World affairs don't work on a four year to four year basis, they happen daily and require comment immediately. You can't expect alternative voices within your government to be silent on important issue just because a particular party is in the White House.

Inside the US, Pelosi and company can speak out as long and as loud as they wish. When traveling overseas on an official visit, they either follow the administration line or STFU. It isn't isn't anything new, BTW.

When I go overseas as part of a US mission, I don't conduct my discussions based on what I believe to be the best interests of US foreign policy. I follow the talking points that have been drafted and cleared through the inter-agency process.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 45):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
You're kidding, right?

You think I'm kidding when I say that the constitution can be amended?

QFF

If that's what you meant, fine. But until those bodies act, the Constitution IS the supreme law of the land.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 46):
No, they don't. That you can't see the issue suggests your fundamental lack of understanding of diplomacy and government.

I reject that. I'm arguing that the only thing standing in the way of Pelosi going to a foreign country and negotiating on behalf of the United States is convention, not law. Just as US diplomatic missions defy diplomatic convention by commenting on the internal affairs of their host nations to the press, it isn't illegal, it's just not ordinarily the done thing.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 46):
Wow. pretty in depth knowledge you have.

Are you saying that what I said was inaccurate? Do you not believe that certain members of the legislature discuss foreign policy issues through their own personal rubric with representatives of foreign governments?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 46):
When I go overseas as part of a US mission, I don't conduct my discussions based on what I believe to be the best interests of US foreign policy.

That's because you're not one of the highest ranking members of the United States government (as far as I know). If you were, it would not be completely unacceptable for you to pursue a foreign policy agenda.

Let's keep in mind that although the administration was not happy with what Pelosi's visit to Syria, was what she had to say REALLY in defiance of established US policy?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 46):
I follow the talking points that have been drafted and cleared through the inter-agency process.

Maybe that's what She did?

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
Your rope is ready any time you want to used it, Pope.

This from the guy who writes all sorts of crap and then will never defend his posts. You've laid out so much rope on so many topics you had to delete yourself after the 2004 election and come back under another user name AlphaFalcon.

But once again you try to change the topic from the issue at hand to me. Why?

Pelosi is making a huge tactical mistake. As I've already written I think the administration should say nothing. If she wants to go to Iran, let her. If she wants to go meet with Castro or Chavez, let her. If she wants to go meet with lil'Kim, let her. Let's see what she can do other than to make the US look weak.

Her speakership has already started out as a disaster and this will just add to it. I can't wait to see what the DNC leadership does when the pictures of her sitting with all these leaders starts showing up during the campaign.

PS - with all the gay guys on this forum, I can't believe nobody's pointed out that she seems to only have one power suit. The light pink one she seems to wear over and over again for big occassion. My wife pointed this out to me last night when we were watching the news. I expect better from you guys.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Pelosi Considers Diplomatic Trip To Iran

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 48):
But once again you try to change the topic from the issue at hand to me. Why?

It was too good to pass up.

And furthermore, is that as far as you went on my post? Read the rest of it. I didn't change the topic at all. I addressed it and gave my opinion on it.
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