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777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
Agree with what fundamental beliefs? Phelps'?

Geez, I hope you're just stirthepot . I certainly haven't ever seen "a lot of people (including Airliners.net members)" agreeing with this loonie toon.

Show me one.

OK then.

FSPilot747:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1267775/ Reply 66.

Redngold:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1027949 Reply 9.

Korg747:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1027949 Reply 29.

Airtran737:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1519868/ Reply 2.

They all agree with the fundamental belief of the nutter Phelps.
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 20):
What is interesting is that Fred Phelps' views are NOT shared by other evangelicals in the USA. In fact, the vast majority of Christians in the USA want him to just go away.

That's hardly interesting. The fact that most folks discredit Phelps & Co. (rightly so) upon the vaguest description of their activities is evidence of just how out of step they are with...well...everybody.
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 47):
You've got some serious growing up to do man.

Actually, I think at my age, if I'm still this juvenile.....hope is probably lost for me.

I am sincerely sorry for your loss, ( "ex roommates brother" ). My cousin, an American, is in a wheelchair as a result of an vehicle collision in Iraq as a result of the driver attempting to avoid a mortar attack. I used to play basketball with him. I'm gutted.

My point is, these people, (Fred Phelps, etc) are nothing, a speck on the windshield as far as normal people's lives and sacrifices. I wasn't really commenting on the "God loves dead soldiers" signs, more the whole fag bashing thing.

If there's any growing up to do, it's the poeple who feel any pain as a result of this group. To feel offended by a bunch of idiots of this nature shows a lack of perspective. Whatever your circumstance, they are a joke. Dismiss them and their rediculous behaviour and move on. To treat them any more seriousely would be an insult to those doing serious things with their lives.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 48):
And yet, this bunch, despite their deliberately provocative-as much as can be imagined, 'protests', they've never ended up being raked by gunfire as they spread their poison.
Nor their 'church', to my knowledge.

Not completely true. Apparently, there was a bomb that went off next to their "church" and some stones flew through the windows of their van (with the family inside the van).
But basically you are right. U.S. Americans, as opinionated or even agitated they sometimes seem to be, very rarely use violence against fringe groups.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 50):
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1267775/ Reply 66.

Still think you're off the mark. Certainly the four examples (out of the 51,178 members here) you cite mention the Bible and Homosexuality, I don't see any comparison between those four members and Phelps and his gang of screwballs.

While each of those four members cited their personal opinions - to which they are entitled of course - none of them IMO is a loonie toons sign carrying protesting at funerals wishing death on everyone "God Hates Fags", "9/11 was God's Work" nut job like Phelps and Company.

Once again - off the mark 777.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 50):
They all agree with the fundamental belief of the nutter Phelps.

Wow, what a lame stretch there.

Agreeing that the bible says homosexuality is wrong is not agreeing with Fred Phelps.

Mr. Fantatic couldn't make a stretch like that.
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 54):
Still think you're off the mark. Certainly the four examples (out of the 51,178 members here) you cite mention the Bible and Homosexuality, I don't see any comparison between those four members and Phelps and his gang of screwballs.

Why? Yes, the members aren't as vocal or obnoxious as Phelps, but they believe homosexuality is a sin. An unrepented sin results in a trip to hell.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 54):
While each of those four members cited their personal opinions - to which they are entitled of course - none of them IMO is a loonie toons sign carrying protesting at funerals wishing death on everyone "God Hates Fags", "9/11 was God's Work" nut job like Phelps and Company.

No, but they still believe in the same fundamental belief that Phelps does.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
Why? Yes, the members aren't as vocal or obnoxious as Phelps, but they believe homosexuality is a sin. An unrepented sin results in a trip to hell.

And that puts these four people on the same level as Phelps??

 faint 

Don't think so.
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 57):

And that puts these four people on the same level as Phelps??

That's not what I said. I said:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44):
The problem is a lot of people (including Airliners.net members) agree with their fundamental beliefs.

Which is true.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 42):
Maybe we can have a "Fred Phelps funeral A.net meet!"

Not that I need a reason, but I'll drink to that!  champagne 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
No, but they still believe in the same fundamental belief that Phelps does.

You're simplifying things a bit too much, IMO. It's true that the core belief of Phelps is that homosexuality is wrong, but members here who agree with that concept do not take it to the conclusion that Phelps does. If Phelps and his minions didn't take it further than that, then we would never have even heard of them or their "church."

As it is, they have used their belief that homosexuality is wrong to conclude that God is punishing the US because we "facilitate homosexuality." There's a huge leap there.

I wonder why these wackos haven't explained why AMS hasn't been cursed by God. There are plenty of places where homosexuality is not just tolerated, but accepted, and I don't see Armegeddon heading their way anytime soon.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44):
The problem is a lot of people (including Airliners.net members) agree with their fundamental beliefs.

What do you define as a lot?   
You cited 4 people on airliners.net, out of 51,178 members. That's literally .008 % of airliners.net I can't imagine for the world that percentage number is too different.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 46):
When was that?

It was part of the whole segment that the first video posted on here has clips from. Hell, Hannity calls her "Soulless".

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 5):

I love that second video where Trya owns them the entire time, and continually exposes their hypocrisy. My favorite line from Trya was the comment about "When I think of attorney's, I think of people who usually have their head on straight". Then ending was pretty good too, where the Phelps are talking about how "diversity" and "tolerance" and how they're the victims of crime blah blah blah, and Trya's obviously thinking "WTF?" and points out "Gee, I don't see any of that [tolerance] coming from you guys".

I was also mildly amused when Tyra asked if they had any friends and the two girls were like "no".

Anyone know what their source of income is? I mean, if they're the only members of their church, they can't be making that much money of the collection plate.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 42):
Someone keep an ear out for when he finally does us all a favor and bites it. Maybe we can have a "Fred Phelps funeral A.net meet!"

I'm game.   

*Edited for grammar

[Edited 2007-04-14 23:58:22]
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 4):
I personally know an ex-Navy SEAL and I'd bet you my life savings that if they showed up at the funeral of anyone related to him, he'd be pulling out his fists or his guns.

And while I completely understand that, it's the wrong way to go about it. We don't want the good people risking jail time.

Get the same jurors OJ Simpson and Robert Blake had.
Problem solved.  biggrin 
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 59):
You're simplifying things a bit too much, IMO. It's true that the core belief of Phelps is that homosexuality is wrong, but members here who agree with that concept do not take it to the conclusion that Phelps does. If Phelps and his minions didn't take it further than that, then we would never have even heard of them or their "church."

As it is, they have used their belief that homosexuality is wrong to conclude that God is punishing the US because we "facilitate homosexuality." There's a huge leap there.

Yes, I agree entirely. But nevertheless, there are many people both here and in society who agree with Phelp's core view: that homosexuality is a sin that will send you to hell if you don't repent.

I don't understand why it is (correctly) deemed so abhorrant that one group of people hold up signs in the street saying 'Fags in Hell' or something along those lines, but it's OK for people to go onto an international website and start sprouting off almost identical beliefs, albeit less aggressivly. User Redngold can post multiple times that she believes homosexuality is a sin and is immoral, yet isn't attacked anywhere near as much as people who hold up signs saying 'God hates fags'. Why not?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 60):

What do you define as a lot?
You cited 4 people on airliners.net, out of 51,178 members. That's literally .008 % of airliners.net I can't imagine for the world that percentage number is too different.

It was a search that took 2 minutes. I assure you more than four people on Airliners.net think homosexuality is a sin.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 62):
It was a search that took 2 minutes. I assure you more than four people on Airliners.net think homosexuality is a sin.

And I assure you that they aren't going to be standing on street corners with pickets signs declaring "God Hates Fags" any time soon. You have jumped the Shark here and you know it.
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 63):
And I assure you that they aren't going to be standing on street corners with pickets signs declaring "God Hates Fags" any time soon.

Exactly. So the problem people have with Phelps is not the message at all, but merely the way he says it. He would get a lot less criticism if his church had exactly the same message, but it was less aggressive in the way he spread it.
 
LogansGirl
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 62):
I don't understand why it is (correctly) deemed so abhorrant that one group of people hold up signs in the street saying 'Fags in Hell' or something along those lines, but it's OK for people to go onto an international website and start sprouting off almost identical beliefs, albeit less aggressivly. User Redngold can post multiple times that she believes homosexuality is a sin and is immoral, yet isn't attacked anywhere near as much as people who hold up signs saying 'God hates fags'. Why not?

Stating, or even preaching one's beliefs is very different from espousing HATE. The Phelp's are screaming hate at everyone who doesn't believe the way they do. They really sound like the antipathy of Satanists than anything near Christian IMO.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 62):
I don't understand why it is (correctly) deemed so abhorrant that one group of people hold up signs in the street saying 'Fags in Hell' or something along those lines, but it's OK for people to go onto an international website and start sprouting off almost identical beliefs, albeit less aggressivly.

Holding up signs at the funeral of a military man or woman who have lost their life in defense of our country (for right or wrong - let's save that argument for later) is a despicable act. Saying homosexuality is wrong and deserving of hellfire just expresses an ignorance of the universe as it is, and an adherence to dogma and doctrine and no concept of absolute truth: that we should live and live, and care more about our own souls than those of others (whatever a soul is).

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 62):
User Redngold can post multiple times that she believes homosexuality is a sin and is immoral, yet isn't attacked anywhere near as much as people who hold up signs saying 'God hates fags'. Why not?

True, but I have blasted her for that in the past, and will continue to do so. That said, she is not denegrating the memory of a soldier who not only is not a homosexual, but just trying to save our nation (for better or for worse, this ain't no politcal thread).

To clarify, blasting someone for their sexual persuasion is wrong. Blasting someone for defending this nation, whether you agree with the war or not is also wrong. Even more wrong; especially when at a funeral of a soldier who gave the ultimate sacrifice.
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 66):
Holding up signs at the funeral of a military man or woman who have lost their life in defense of our country (for right or wrong - let's save that argument for later) is a despicable act. Saying homosexuality is wrong and deserving of hellfire just expresses an ignorance of the universe as it is, and an adherence to dogma and doctrine and no concept of absolute truth: that we should live and live, and care more about our own souls than those of others (whatever a soul is).

I agree.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 66):
True, but I have blasted her for that in the past, and will continue to do so. That said, she is not denegrating the memory of a soldier who not only is not a homosexual, but just trying to save our nation (for better or for worse, this ain't no politcal thread).

To clarify, blasting someone for their sexual persuasion is wrong. Blasting someone for defending this nation, whether you agree with the war or not is also wrong. Even more wrong; especially when at a funeral of a soldier who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

Yes, I agree with all of this. But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.
 
LogansGirl
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 67):
But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.

Are you kidding? Christianity for the most part, however misguided the majority of believers may be, is a message of LOVE. The reason this particular group draws so much negative energy is because they SPEW so much NEGATIVE energy!!! Satanists believe "Do what you like and if it causes someone else grief, so be it." Christians say, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." We Pagans say, "And it harm NONE, do what you will,"(notice, none includes yourself). These people are battering others with their belief which is that God hates the same way they do. IMO, they are the abhorration.
 
KingAir200
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It

Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 24):

Out of curiosity, where do they live and protest, do they travel around to many different places or stay in there home town? To be truly honest, I dont know how they are still around can society not take care of these useless assholes our selves?

They live in some compound thing in Topeka, KS. As said above, these crazies travel about, doing their crazy act. They have protested or made statements about many things, funerals of fallen soldiers, memorials to the miners killed in the Sago Mine disaster, Stephen Colbert and John Stewart, Pope John Paul II, the space shuttle Columbia disaster, Mr. Rogers, the funeral of Gerald R. Ford, Matthew Shepard, the PA Amish School shooting, the country of Sweden, the list goes on.

[Edited 2007-04-15 02:54:11]
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 65):
Stating, or even preaching one's beliefs is very different from espousing HATE.

Is it? Condemning someone to hell because of who they have sex with seems pretty hateful to me. It doesn't really matter whether it's a sign held up at the side of a road, or on an internet site.

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 68):
These people are battering others with their belief which is that God hates the same way they do. IMO, they are the abhorration.

Which much surely include all those who are so vocal about homosexuality being a sin - infact all those who seem more than ready to wade into any moralistic debate and inset their tuppence condemning others to hell.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 67):
But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.

I was thinking quite a bit about this this afternoon.

Phelps' premise is that the world is so corrupt, the US included that God is sending destruction down on it.

What mainstream Christian's believe and what Phelps ignores is that passage the "God so LOVED the world that he sent his only son."

Think on that and compare the Roman world were 3/4ths of it was enslaved. Where the sick were thrown out of cities. Where women were oppressed. War was constant. People worshiped deities with sex. Romans were famous for orgies, and all kinds of decadence. People where killed for sport. The Roman World was a brutal place.

Compare that with today.

If God could LOVE that enough that he wanted to save it, what does that say about Phelps' logic. This is the difference between Phelps and mainstream Christianity. He's a cult leader.

And I think that you can't laugh off his lunacy. You have to confront it, and show him to be a fake. Hatred like this can't be left to fester.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 70):
Condemning someone to hell because of who they have sex with seems pretty hateful to me.

There are a lot of other reasons than whom you choose to sleep with that people are condemned to hell for supposedly. Are you saying that every christian hates every sinner? That's a pretty wide path to paint. Granted there is a lot of hate going on, but I don't think it's exclusive nor all-encompassing.
 
UnknownUser
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 64):
Exactly. So the problem people have with Phelps is not the message at all, but merely the way he says it. He would get a lot less criticism if his church had exactly the same message, but it was less aggressive in the way he spread it.

His message is, "Fags should die!" and "God hates America". The last I checked, we are not fine with that message, nor the way he spreads it. The members you cited said, 'homosexuality is a sin.' The messages are night and day. The members you cited do not wish death upon gays. In fact, you can look at the posts again and see that they said they were fine living in a society with gays. In other words, they are tolerant of them. The Phelps family is not. They goes as far as saying it is okay to kill gay people and that the soldiers DESERVED to die. I don't see any of our members saying that. ANC is right, you are way off the mark here.

[Edited 2007-04-15 04:53:18]
 
MD-90
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
No, but they still believe in the same fundamental belief that Phelps does.

I disagree. By your standard I also share the same fundamental belief that Phelps does, but I think you're incorrect.

Phelps believes that gays (and others) are the reason why God has punished nations with floods, hurricanes, wars, diseases, etc. Gays (and others) must repent or we will all suffer the consequences of their sins (which is not Biblical, btw), according to Phelps. Because of these sins gays can be treated like dirt by Phelps' hypocritical "church," in order to "help" them.

None of the four users you've cited have ever given any evidence that any of them even remotely agree with that. You are simply wrong.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 67):
But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.

So does this mean I can group Islamic fundamentalists with most other mainstream Muslims since their "fundamental principles" are the same?  sarcastic 

You want to know one other big difference between mainstream Christians and these Phelps assholes? Mainstream Christians (including those who would say its sin, I'm not saying I'm one of them) would still say that homosexuals are to be loved in a Christian manner and still to be treated in a respectful manner. Hell, even those who would argue that it is a sin can't try to argue the fact that Jesus invited the sinners to eat with him.

And let's be honest here. With all the problems and evil in the world today, do you think homosexuality is at the top of God's (or most Christians) list of things to worry about?
 
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solnabo
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:18 pm

Errm..

Colmes thinks the Phelps woman is a crazy m/f, and he support everything Ann Coulter say??

Double standard, anyone?

Micke//  yuck 
 
OB1504
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:29 pm


 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It

Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 71):

Phelps' premise is that the world is so corrupt, the US included that God is sending destruction down on it.

What mainstream Christian's believe and what Phelps ignores is that passage the "God so LOVED the world that he sent his only son."

You could argue that Phelps still doesn't ignore that: by protesting homosexuality he's making it clear to those who 'choose' homosexuality that they will go to hell, giving them a chance to repent. Now, I don't believe that (the argument or the point) for a second, don't get me wrong, but there is precious little love involved when mainstream Christians are saying homosexuality is a sin. An example: the Catholic church in the UK took on the government who said they should allow gay parents to adopt, the Catholics didn't want to do that. Where's the love there?

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 71):

And I think that you can't laugh off his lunacy. You have to confront it, and show him to be a fake. Hatred like this can't be left to fester.

I agree. But what is his lunacy? The fact he protests, or the message? I don't see a significant difference in the message when one of his idiots holds up a 'God hates fags' sign and when someone goes onto an internet forum condemning homosexuality as a sin.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 72):
There are a lot of other reasons than whom you choose to sleep with that people are condemned to hell for supposedly. Are you saying that every christian hates every sinner? That's a pretty wide path to paint. Granted there is a lot of hate going on, but I don't think it's exclusive nor all-encompassing.



Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 73):
The members you cited said, 'homosexuality is a sin.' The messages are night and day. The members you cited do not wish death upon gays. In fact, you can look at the posts again and see that they said they were fine living in a society with gays. In other words, they are tolerant of them. The Phelps family is not

Why are the messages night and day? A lot of mainstream Christians think homosexuality is a sin, and if the homosexuals don't repent they will spend eternity in hell. That's a pretty extreme position, and a horrible thing to wish on someone. But it seems clear that one of the basic ideas behind Christianity is that anything is forgiven, provided you repent. If you don't, all love aside, you burn in hell. The message is the same, the way the Phelps go about spreading it is different.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 74):
Phelps believes that gays (and others) are the reason why God has punished nations with floods, hurricanes, wars, diseases, etc. Gays (and others) must repent or we will all suffer the consequences of their sins (which is not Biblical, btw), according to Phelps. Because of these sins gays can be treated like dirt by Phelps' hypocritical "church," in order to "help" them.

I'm not going to go into a Biblical war with you, because you'll win. But God certainly punished sinner on Earth before. Even in the New Testament, Jesus saved such heinous people as tax collectors - but only because they wanted to repent and saw the light. Let me ask you think: if a homosexual doesn't repent and is proud of their homosexuality, do you think they will go to hell?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 75):

So does this mean I can group Islamic fundamentalists with most other mainstream Muslims since their "fundamental principles" are the same? sarcastic

That's a different thread, and I never mentioned grouping in mainstream Christians with wackos like Phelps. My point simply is that many Christians share the same basic idea behind Phelps' protests. But just like fundamentalists like Phelps simply extend some of the ideas behind Christianity, fundamentalists in the Muslim world do the same with Islam.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 75):
And let's be honest here. With all the problems and evil in the world today, do you think homosexuality is at the top of God's (or most Christians) list of things to worry about?

Yes, I agree entirely. If a God exists I would hope he wouldn't care about who you had a consenting relationship with. But that's beside the point: it's clear in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination, and many if not most Christians think it is a sin.
 
nosedive
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
Why are the messages night and day?

You're also making this a b/w issue
cases in point:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
If you don't, all love aside, you burn in hell.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
An example: the Catholic church in the UK took on the government who said they should allow gay parents to adopt, the Catholics didn't want to do that. Where's the love there?



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 69):
hey live in some compound thing in Topeka, KS. As said above, these crazies travel about, doing their crazy act. They have protested or made statements about many things, funerals of fallen soldiers, memorials to the miners killed in the Sago Mine disaster, Stephen Colbert and John Stewart, Pope John Paul II, the space shuttle Columbia disaster, Mr. Rogers, the funeral of Gerald R. Ford, Matthew Shepard, the PA Amish School shooting, the country of Sweden, the list goes on.

See that's one of the reasons why the 4 members in question are not like the church. The church spews hatrid in a shotgun blast. The 4 members just have an opinion.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 67):
Yes, I agree with all of this. But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.

In the sense of opnions, yes. You can look to the 2006 voting results in Colorado and Tennessee, where gay marriage was voted down, to see that homesexuallity isn't exactly well liked, but you also do not see large anti-gay rallys that call for the destruction of homosexuals. Here's how I see it you want to make this into a 2 way street: love or hate. There are other areas here: like, dislike, loathe, ignore, apathetic, etc. etc. etc. I'd say you're trying to compare apples to oranges, but there are also bananas, pineapples, pears, lemons, limes, etc that also need to be considered....
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 79):
See that's one of the reasons why the 4 members in question are not like the church. The church spews hatrid in a shotgun blast. The 4 members just have an opinion.

Yes, what the church spews is in a shotgun blast, but you can't escape that fact that many mainstream Christians have the same fundamental belief! If someone says 'I think homosexuality is a sin, that if you don't repent you will go to hell' on a message board read by tens of thousands - is that 'just having an opinion', but holding up a sign saying 'God hates fags' is spreading hate? Why?
 
nosedive
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 80):
Yes, what the church spews is in a shotgun blast, but you can't escape that fact that many mainstream Christians have the same fundamental belief!

Dude, gray areas. Your b/w perception is looks sorta like Phelps' perception, save that you aren't asking for more people to die for the lifestyle they live, which is another reason that Phelps' group is isolated!
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 81):

Dude, gray areas. Your b/w perception is looks sorta like Phelps' perception, save that you aren't asking for more people to die for the lifestyle they live, which is another reason that Phelps' group is isolated!

Yes, it's a gray area, and it shouldn't be. Given the sheer hate and pathetic views of Phelps, no one should be in the same gray area as him. Why is there so much outrage at Phelps, but so much acceptance of the right to condemn gay people to a lifetime burning?
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 82):
Why is there so much outrage at Phelps, but so much acceptance of the right to condemn gay people to a lifetime burning?

Phelps wants more people to die, for one.
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 67):
But the gulf between Phelps' lot and mainstream Christianity (or most religions, for that matter) isn't as large as some people seem to think it is.

That's  redflag , and you know it. I don't believe for a second that you are that ignorant about the Christian faith or the Bible. You're spinning the wheel just has hard as the Phelps family, which makes you an extremist as well.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 56):
but they believe homosexuality is a sin. An unrepented sin results in a trip to hell.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
if a homosexual doesn't repent and is proud of their homosexuality, do you think they will go to hell?

Not true. If it was, everyone who doesn't repent for every sin committed would go to hell.

According to the Bible, we are all sinners. Nothing is going to change that, whether we pray 10x a day or not. The Bible also states "a sin is a sin", which means we are all judged equally by God. The Bible also states that the only way to salvation is if you truly believe in Christ, whether you're gay or not. So, in short, homosexuality is not enough to condemn a person to hell.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
A lot of mainstream Christians think homosexuality is a sin, and if the homosexuals don't repent they will spend eternity in hell.

Not the vast majority, which adheres to the principles I mentioned above.
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 84):

Not true. If it was, everyone who doesn't repent for every sin committed would go to hell.

Which a lot of mainstream Christians believe.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 84):

Not the vast majority, which adheres to the principles I mentioned above.

I never said the vast majority.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 84):
which makes you an extremist as well.

Why? I'm not spinning anything, the evidence is clear. Some mainstream Christians have the same fundamental belief as Phelps!
 
TheCol
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 85):
Which a lot of mainstream Christians believe.

Again, wrong. Mainstream Christianity is against those beliefs. Anyone who believes you have to be "pure" to enter heaven, are not considered "mainstream".

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 85):
Why? I'm not spinning anything

Hey, whatever turns your crank...  Yeah sure
 
777236ER
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 86):
Again, wrong. Mainstream Christianity is against those beliefs. Anyone who believes you have to be "pure" to enter heaven, are not considered "mainstream".

The belief is that homosexuality is wrong. Are you suggesting mainstream Christianity thinks homosexuality isn't wrong?
 
LogansGirl
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:17 am

The twist to what you're saying, 777, is the Christian message is twisted. The Jewish god was a tribal, jealous god. Christianity is based on that message while trying to give a very different message of love and peace. Yes there are a lot of Christians with very conflicting thoughts and beliefs. However, believing someone is going to some imagined place of torture for the rest of eternity is just a belief. As long as they care about that, they are likely to say it out loud sometimes. I understand it is a negative thought of ill will. Phelps is not having negative thoughts. He is making completely asinine comments and actions in a very loud way, which is rude and infringes on the civil liberties of others. If they think God hates everyone so much, why do they give a crap whether or not the Hated get it? God's still going to Hate, according to them.
That's why I said they're closer to Satanists than they are to being any kind of Christians.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 63):
And I assure you that they aren't going to be standing on street corners with pickets signs declaring "God Hates Fags" any time soon.

Sorry Pep, but I'm gonna have to call ya out on that one--- how could you "assure" us this, when said action is (at least in this area) EXTREMELY common among Evangelicals here, even those who'd consider themselves moderate.

If you'd like, I can snap a pic of some on my camera phone tomorrow. I'm sure they'll be out in force all over Campus, on Highland Rd, on Canal St., on Bourbon, near the Mall, etc  Yeah sure

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 75):
And let's be honest here. With all the problems and evil in the world today, do you think homosexuality is at the top of God's (or most Christians) list of things to worry about?

....um, by chance did you miss the 2004 elections cher?

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 76):
Colmes thinks the Phelps woman is a crazy m/f, and he support everything Ann Coulter say??

As usual, you lack the faintest idea as to what you're talking about.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
An example: the Catholic church in the UK took on the government who said they should allow gay parents to adopt, the Catholics didn't want to do that. Where's the love there?

There is a big difference in the Catholic Church's "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner" attitude,and the hate espoused by Phelps. Can the Catholic Church disagree with people, and not HATE them. I not only think they can they do.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
That's a pretty extreme position, and a horrible thing to wish on someone. But it seems clear that one of the basic ideas behind Christianity is that anything is forgiven, provided you repent. If you don't, all love aside, you burn in hell.

As I said before, the message from Mainstream Christianity is hate the sin, love the sinner. If someone where truly following Christ's example, (BTW this is more in dept into religion than I normally go) they would see a man who didn't go to the righteous people. He went to the sinners, the prostitutes and tax collectors. I agree there is a bible thumping minority that thinks as you suggest. But the vast majority of Christians I know do not see sin the way you are saying they do. I know a gay kid whose a youth minister for his Methodist Church. He is out and flamingly gay. And Methodists is one denomination that I've heard is particularly fond of the "fire and damnation" type of religion. My cousin died of AIDS and had a Catholic Mass funeral. His father, a very devote man, LOVED his son. Hated his choices, but never stopped loving him even on his deathbed.

Your painting all Christians with the same brush is the same kind of extreme prejudice espoused by Phelps. Just because he's wrong doesn't make your position right.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting LogansGirl (Reply 88):
If they think God hates everyone so much, why do they give a crap whether or not the Hated get it?

According to them, they don't... they just want to stir the hate that they believe everyone else has for God into an even greater intensity.

That part they've explained.

Now why it is they want to do that is still, IINM, an explanation they've kept only to themselves.
 
NWA742
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 90):
As I said before, the message from Mainstream Christianity is hate the sin, love the sinner

Eh - don't waste to much of your time, UALPHLCS. Some just don't understand it - I mean, he's trying to establish a valid and meaningful connection between this family of extremist assholes and mainstream Christianity. Shows you his overall viewpoint is. True colors quite clear.



-NWA742
 
MD-90
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
I'm not going to go into a Biblical war with you, because you'll win. But God certainly punished sinner on Earth before. Even in the New Testament, Jesus saved such heinous people as tax collectors - but only because they wanted to repent and saw the light. Let me ask you think: if a homosexual doesn't repent and is proud of their homosexuality, do you think they will go to hell?

It is possible to be gay and 'saved,' to use a Southern Baptist term. Not every Christian believes that, but I do.


But God sent Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its residents' sinful ways? Just further proof that Phelps is a nutter.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
A lot of mainstream Christians think homosexuality is a sin,

Just one of a great many sins.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
if the homosexuals don't repent they will spend eternity in hell.

Only God can determine who will go to hell.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
a horrible thing to wish on someone.

Christians do not "wish" anyone to go to hell. Those individuals (or groups) that do, and call themselves Christians, are sadly mistaken. I am of the opinion that those types of people are actually working against Christianity.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 78):
if a homosexual doesn't repent and is proud of their homosexuality, do you think they will go to hell?

Once again, that is for God to decide. Unrepented sins may or may not land a person in hell.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 92):
I mean, he's trying to establish a valid and meaningful connection between this family of extremist assholes and mainstream Christianity. Shows you his overall viewpoint is.

Thing is, he's not alone by a longshot.

How often have you seen an outcry for mainstream Muslims [ Yeah sure] to not only dissociate but come out against the likes of radical Islam? Same concept could be applied here-- plenty of Christian leaders have publicly dissociated themselves with Phelps&Co; but how many have actively spoken and taken action against his message per se, as opposed to just decrying the venues wherein he and his people choose to deliver it?

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 93):
God sent Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its residents' sinful ways?

The incredible irony there being that the French Quarter and Marigny (wherewithin the overwhelming majority of NOLA's gay population and businesses dwell) were two of the only three neighborhoods of the city completely spared by the flood!
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 5):
Just in case someone doesn't know yet how much horrible the Phelps family is:

These guys are really fucked up. I love Tyra's quick remarks to the idiots.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 62):
User Redngold can post multiple times that she believes homosexuality is a sin and is immoral, yet isn't attacked anywhere near as much as people who hold up signs saying 'God hates fags'. Why not?

Because there is yet to be an a.net funeral where she is protesting and celebrating. Also, why do you feel the need to pick on four members in particular?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 96):

Because there is yet to be an a.net funeral where she is protesting and celebrating.

...which furthers the point made in the post prior:
it seems to be Phelp's method of delivery quite a few self-considered "mainstream" Christians (here and elsewhere) disagree with, rather than his message itself.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 97):
it seems to be Phelp's method of delivery quite a few self-considered "mainstream" Christians (here and elsewhere) disagree with, rather than his message itself.

How many have said that?

On here or in public.

I doubt Phelps has more than a few hundred followers. Views similar to his range in the few thousands.

There are 2.1 billion Christians. Roughly a quarter of the Earth's population. Phelps is indeed a tiny tiny minority.

I think basing your opinions of all Christians from the couple or few that agree with Phelps is ridiculous.
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
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RE: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It!

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 98):
How many have said that?

On here or in public.

Its more a case of what hasn't been said, on here and in public. Phelps and his family/cult have been protesting and harassing gays for years, long, long before they truly came into the public eye. It was the very fact that no one in the 'mainstream' was paying attention to them that caused them to move their focus from funerals of people who died from AIDS to the more visible demonstrations that has everyone riled up today. Very few publicly condemned their actions when they stuck to the gays. So from that side of the coin, its not too hard to make correlation that its not the message, its how they go about spreading it.

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