O'Reilly Calls For Troop Withdrawl

AGM100 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:22 am

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,286915,00.html

I agree with him 100%

The "Surge" looked good at first ,but I will never forgive President Bush for setting our guys up for failure. Our enemy in Iraq ,and the war opposition in the US know very well the 08 elections are swinging on the surge failing in Iraq (IMHO). The President is responsible for setting this trap !

Our troops dont stand a chance , and I am ashamed of our country for it.

Slovacek747 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:30 am

I watched the show last night and he believes we should give it until the fall and if it hasn't worked by then that we should begin withdrawing. That is a fair view of the situation.

Slovacek747

AeroWesty · Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:32 am

Just another slag on the "left-wing liberal media".

"Come this fall, if the Iraq situation is not strongly improved by the surge, the Bush administration needs to pull back our forces and let the Iraqis sort it out.

Not cut and run, but not full engagement either. In the meantime, "Talking Points" will continue to focus on the dishonest media that uses a political agenda while reporting on Iraq. That is unacceptable and an insult to Daniel Agami. It will be challenged."

Way to take a stand, O'Reilly.

davestanKSAN · Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Our troops dont stand a chance , and I am ashamed of our country for it.

I know from the past, you've said you had "bad days" where you had such a dismal outlook on the situation in Iraq that you felt hopeless. Of course, that is understandable.

So, I'm assuming you're having one of those days today. I don't think you should be ashamed at our country at all. It's fair to say you're ashamed at our leaders, but I don't think it's fair to say you're ashamed of our country. Our image might be hurt by our leaders, but the will of our people is still strong.

Dave

AGM100 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 3):
It's fair to say you're ashamed at our leaders, but I don't think it's fair to say you're ashamed of our country

I am ashamed of my President , but he is slammed into a corner now and its going to get bad. I sat with one of my daughters friends father the other night while he told me his unit was going back. He was actually positive about it ! I felt such a feeling of disgust for our leaders who voted to send him their and now are not backing it up. They not only have change their minds , but they work actively to undermine the entire effort. Looks like they laid the ultimate trap for our soldiers to me in order to win power (IM Hostile! opinion) ..

Yep its a bad week,

Slovacek747 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:53 am

We did the right thing and we need to let our soldiers loose to go out and kick some ass. There are way too many restrictions on them. I'm not ashamed of our leaders at all. Sure mistakes have been made but they will always be made. Mr. Bush needs to give the soldiers one month to go and do what they need to do, getting rid of anyone who looks like they are causing problems. Hats off to our military and I'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy. I really hope the iraqi people start standing up and take control themselves.

Slovacek747

flynavy · Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
We did the right thing and we need to let our soldiers loose to go out and kick some ass. There are way too many restrictions on them. I'm not ashamed of our leaders at all. Sure mistakes have been made but they will always be made. Mr. Bush needs to give the soldiers one month to go and do what they need to do, getting rid of anyone who looks like they are causing problems. Hats off to our military and I'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy. I really hope the iraqi people start standing up and take control themselves.

Be sure to look for some weapons of mass destruction while you're there. Heck, maybe you'll even find a "smoking gun" nuke?

Aaron747 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
Sure mistakes have been made but they will always be made.

In other words, there's no reason to really care about things such as right and wrong. Nice reasoning.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
Hats off to our military and I'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy

Then you'd be going to the wrong country. Our original enemy is actually in Afghanistan. We inadvertently invited the enemy into Iraq and the enemy's invitation was extended and encouraged by the completely inept and absolutely corrupt new government. If you want to fight on behalf of their sin and incompetence, be my guest, but you'll only be helping them stay off the hook.

kevi747 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
The "Surge" looked good at first ,

To you maybe.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 1):
we should give it until the fall and if it hasn't worked by then that we should begin withdrawing.

Let me check my crystal ball on that one. Yep, looks like Iraq will still be a bloody mess this fall.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Our troops dont stand a chance , and I am ashamed of our country for it.

Me too.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 3):
I don't think you should be ashamed at our country at all. It's fair to say you're ashamed at our leaders, but I don't think it's fair to say you're ashamed of our country. Our image might be hurt by our leaders, but the will of our people is still strong.

I completely disagree. This whole mess is a national tragedy. We've all sat comfortably and quietly by while thousands of our countrymen and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed. And for what? Any reasonable person with half a brain knew this was going to be a pointless disaster. Shame on us.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
He was actually positive about it ! I felt such a feeling of disgust for our leaders who voted to send him their and now are not backing it up.

What about the people who voted those leaders into office? I really hope America learns a lesson from this and never again engages in something so foolish.

stlgph · Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):

Exactly. And one more month becomes one more month becomes one more month becomes one more month....

AGM100 · Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
I really hope the iraqi people start standing up and take control themselves.

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 8):
What about the people who voted those leaders into office? I really hope America learns a lesson from this and never again engages in something so foolish.

The war was the right thing to do and our guys did their job by getting Saddam. The politicians I am referring to are the ones that voted for it and now have cowered to the lets get along crowd. They have crippled our war fighting leadership (for what it is) by wedging the war and our soldiers for political power. I guess its just the way it goes in democracies , but I feel betrayed somehow.

The Bush administration basically set a time line by implementing the surge, this was a huge mistake politically and militarily. The biggest problem with the Surge is that we all know about it, right down to the deployment dates ! WTF when has this ever happened in Military history . I see CNN talking about what brigades are still moving in , where the forces are going and how many their are... its just crazy!

The enemy just has to sit back and let it fall apart , the press will do the rest .

flyorski · Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy

I wish you luck if you decide to do it, but before signing up, I would research fully what is really going on.

One of my American cousins was in Iraq, and he said that after about 2 weeks he knew that it was not where he wanted to do anything. He said all the mechanical jobs where replaced by KBR, and other things which I won't go into detail about here.

Mir · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
but he is slammed into a corner now

He has nobody to blame for that but himself.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
I'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy.

If that's your rationale, I wouldn't do it. War is not about kicking ass and taking names, and you may seriously regret that decision.

-Mir

frequentflyer · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
I will never forgive President Bush for setting our guys up for failure

Same here.

Shame on him. 3500 dead people hurt.

To the armchair warmongers out there: go and have a look.

ConcordeBoy · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 3):
I don't think you should be ashamed at our country at all. It's fair to say you're ashamed at our leaders, but I don't think it's fair to say you're ashamed of our country. Our image might be hurt by our leaders, but the will of our people is still strong.

...I used to think that, but now I agree with the previous poster-- the reason we should be ashamed, is that we The People have the chance to demand accountability from those who led us so wrong, and yet we're doing nothing about it.

Bush & Co are quite possibly going to spend the rest of their days fishing the Rio Pilcomayo, while the rest of us spend decades trying to recover from what could every well be the most inept "leadership" our nation has ever faced.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The war was the right thing to do

In contrast to the moronic "illegal war" mentality; yes, we indeed had the right--- however, in a question of could vs. should, the optimum choice should be more than apparent in this time 4 years post.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
and our guys did their job by getting Saddam

Indeed they did, but was it worth it?

3500 American lives

A third of a Trillion dollars spent

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed (if you care about that sorta thing)

Massive debt inclined

Domestic powerplays utilizing wartime as a scapegoat

etc.

And what have we gained from it?
Oil/fuel? No, we're still paying $3 at the gas pump.
Stability? No, the region's more of a hornet's nest now than it was before.
Emerging investment vistas? Sure, if you're a contractor willing to risk decapitation.
A new ally in the war against terror? <> Uh huh, sh'yeah, right!

....oh, and please don't tell me you're still buying the Hannity-esque line of "well, they're keeping us safe because they're fighting 'the enemy' there rather than here". If so, do you really think that 'the enemy' is going to forget how to use a map and find America? Did you miss the recent terror busts before alleged attempts on the likes of New York, Chicago, and Toronto?

But getting back to the original point in contention: was all of that really worth taking down one man-- one man who was NOT a threat to the USA, and one man who (despite how much we didn't like him) maintained order in one of the most primative/backwater regions on Earth.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The enemy

define exactly who is "the enemy" please

STT757 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:54 am

I'm a daily listener of the radio factor, and Bill has been saying this for months. I think sometime in late '06 he came to the conclusion that victory is impossible because the Iraqi's don't want "US" to win.

Bill lately has either been playing up the total failures and corruption of the Iraqis, or just ignoring the Iraq story all together. The conservative editorialists including Bill have set up the cover that Republicans need to support troop reductions, "it's the Iraqi's fault". Which is true, but the US obviously screwed up by not sending in enough troops. And not tampering down when the violence started, Rumsfeld screwed up huge and the President screwed up even bigger for not being firm with Rumsfeld and demanding accountability and results. Rumsfeld should have been gone in '04, and the surge started at the same time. Perhaps then we would have had a chance, however too little too late has been the result of alot of the current Administration's biggest failings.

The President and Cheney are more then comtept to keep the Surge and the current tempo of operations going until they leave office, and to blame the failures on whoever takes over. However the Republicans in Congress will not let them do that, waiting for the next administration whoever it is hurts Republicans the most. This Fall (Sept-Oct) Petreaus will go before Congress, and unless he really has something of substance to prove dramatic progress the Congress will thank him for his work and of the troops.

The Republicans will then enmasse meet with the White House and state clearly, " Redeploy the troops". The President can either listen, or continue the fight and make the Congressional Republicans join with Democrats to cut off the funding.

tsaord · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:05 am

When I was in my 2nd semester of College back in 2003 all I heard was "they have weapons of mass destruction". It was never about freeing Iraqi people and bringing freedom to the country. At least from what I saw and heard.

I have become disinchanted with this war because now it has morphed in bringing stability to the region and its people. Im not sure if I agree with America trying to police every part of the world and bring people the power of elections. If a nation wants to blow themselves up let them. I do not believe defeating whoever the enemy is in Iraq will make the USA a safer place from terrorist. There are so many terrorist groups who can come after us for any reason.

I think America needs to fight a real war on its on soil in the present age. This generation is so used to seeing the rest of the world fighting each other through the TV screen. They do not know what people go through when an army invades their homes and missiles fall out the sky.

Mir · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 16):
When I was in my 2nd semester of College back in 2003 all I heard was "they have weapons of mass destruction". It was never about freeing Iraqi people and bringing freedom to the country.

The goals for a war do tend to escalate to meet the number of casualties.

-Mir

ltbewr · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:55 am

To me, Bill O' reasons for his calls for withdrawal from Iraq include that continuing the war in Iraq is badly hurting the Republicans and it is fueling the Democrats in their opposition to the Republicans. There are times when one has to make a tactical and political retreat. Yes, I do recognize the potential 'win' to the terrorists short to medium term a total removal of USA troops in Iraq, but like Vietnam, you are just not going to win due to deep political realities.

ConcordeBoy · Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 16):
I think America needs to fight a real war on its on soil in the present age

hmm, you just contradicted your first two words there bub.

AeroWesty · Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:50 am

We need 1968 all over again. That'd fix it.

kevi747 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The war was the right thing to do

Then you are part of the problem. I'm sorry, but it was absolutely NOT the right thing to do. It was completely unnecessary. You were wrong. But if the situation we're currently in doesn't scream that to you, then there's really nothing more to say. If you don't see by now how foolish this entire thing was, you never will.

Unfortunately this is one situation where I get absolutely no satisfaction in saying, "I told you so." But I was all for Afghanistan, and completely against Iraq. It's turned out exactly how I thought it would and many, many people are dead; and many, many others lives are ruined and I think we ought to be ashamed ourselves.

ConcordeBoy · Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
We need 1968 all over again. That'd fix it.

Sadly, America wont rise up with any backbone until if/when these types put in a serious (i.e., not some half-assed Rangel-esque) effort to reinstate the draft. Then all hell will break loose, and there'd be a hella lot of Congressional seats up for grabs.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
The President can either listen, or continue the fight

And based on EVERY SINGLE iota of precedence, which do you think he'll do? banghead

SaturnVRocket · Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:10 am

I have always felt that if a war is truly necessary for the survival of a country then a draft should be put in place. I have a two major fundamental problems with this war and those that support it:

1. If the country is truly in danger, then a draft should be justifiable. If pulling out of Iraq means terrible things to America then the case should be made to draft enough troops to finish the job.

2. If the current amount spent on the war is $600 billion and more to come, then taxes should be raised accordingly. If we are truly in danger of the possible outcome of a failed Iraq invasion then I have no problem giving more of my paycheck to guarantee my way of life.

I can't understand how people who support the war aren't prepared to pony up the doe it takes to win a war: Lives and money. If our American way is TRULY endangered, then people should be more than willing to give these things up. That is one reason why I don't believe the threat is as real as the White House makes it out to be. I feel that if the need for war is that great and that justifiable, then we should ALL go to war together, whether it be on the battle field or in the bank accounts.

SVR

CupraIbiza · Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:40 am

All this talk of the surge working or not working. How can everyone see that is cant and wont work. The US possesses beyond question the biggest and strongest military in the world. However (and its a big however), it is a military that is trained and equiped to fight traditional foes with traditional weapons.

The war in Iraq is being waged against a guerilla insurgency. Who dont use or do anything traditional. The only way out is diplomacy, but of course this administration is unable/unwilling to go down that path.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
but I will never forgive President Bush

You can't blame him - he is the puppet. You should be blaming the puppet masters (i.e Cheney and the other neo-cons)

AGM100 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 14):
define exactly who is "the enemy" please

Those that appose democracy in Iraq. Period. Democracy in Iraq is a defeat for the radical Islamic coalition .
A coalition that wishes the destruction of the US and imposition of Islamic rule throughout the world.

See I prefer to be clear about that , I see the failed Islamic (states) you can name them ... being producers of people who hate us. They blame us for all their problems they stir up hatred among their population ... meanwhile letting their own states collapse.

Then they come blow us up or blow up somebody . If anyone is going to be blowing people up , I would rather it be our guys .. cool ?

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 21):
Then you are part of the problem. I'm sorry, but it was absolutely NOT the right thing to do. It was completely unnecessary. You were wrong.

I dont mind being wrong , but I was not wrong about that. If we did not remove Saddam Iraq would have spiraled into civil war anyway .. or his sons would have taken over the family business. Either way we were faced with a guy in power who could threaten us in the future. Besides that ,the "Beachhead" idea of fighting Islamic extremists by instilling a government opposed to their ideals is valid.

With all do respect , I see you as part of the problem as well. I realize it would have been easier to just sit back and do nothing , but nothing except more attacks is what we would get. The US is at war with Islamic extremists , it is huge and it is uncertain how it will turn out .. but we are at war with them. They know it , why dont you ?

davestanKSAN · Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:14 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 8):
This whole mess is a national tragedy. We've all sat comfortably and quietly by while thousands of our countrymen and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 14):
...I used to think that, but now I agree with the previous poster-- the reason we should be ashamed, is that we The People have the chance to demand accountability from those who led us so wrong, and yet we're doing nothing about it.

Yes, with some parts of that I agree, but I don't know if I would say "I'm ashamed of our country." I'm certainly disappointed in some citizens. I agree we as a people have become quite complacent. Yet there is still some common good that we should be proud of I think. Most notably I believe that it comes in the form of respect for the Servicemen and women who are sent off to battle. I'm not talking about a soccer mom and her yellow "support the troops" ribbon on the back of the Caravan either. I think there is genuine concern for the well being for the Troops. I think that sentiment lies within most, even those who have opposed this war from the beginning.

But the problem is (imo) that [some] people are so unwilling to admit that mistakes have been made. They have an aberrant love for anything the President or the Republican party does. On the contrary, there are some who love everything the Dems do. It gets back to the partisinship issue, that unfortunately is hurting our country.

To further that point about the war, it's amazing to me that people continue to defend President Bush and his administration. What I find remarkable is the group of people who are defending him.

Anyway, I understand your points, but I'm still not ashamed of our country. There are far too many decent, heroic, hard working Americans that make me proud each and every day that define what our country stands for. Especially the men and women who are the real ones who suffer, the brave men and women who wear the Uniform fighting for us each and every day.

Dave

Mir · Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
If we did not remove Saddam Iraq would have spiraled into civil war anyway

I'd put money on Saddam not letting the country spiral into civil war. Of course, he would eventually die, and at that point a civil war could very well have ensued, but at least our troops wouldn't be stuck in the middle of it.

This isn't to say that the war was in itself a bad idea - just food for thought.

-Mir

Aaron747 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
Either way we were faced with a guy in power who could threaten us in the future.

Did you really mean to post that? Come on now, certainly you can be more cogent than that.

AGM100 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
I'd put money on Saddam not letting the country spiral into civil war.

With all the embargos sanctions against him It could be argued that he would have lost his grip. But I guess we will never know.

BTT:
The surge is slow death for our military because their is no "benchmark" for success. All it takes it one psychotic human bomb to walk into a coffee shop.... bammm and its all a big failure. I support the troops taking it to the enemy , I think they need get on with it like they are I assume. But the policy of rushing the process by raising false hopes is dangerous and IMO doomed to fail at this point.

CupraIbiza · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
Those that appose democracy in Iraq. Period. Democracy in Iraq is a defeat for the radical Islamic coalition .
A coalition that wishes the destruction of the US and imposition of Islamic rule throughout the world.

Will people ever realise that democracy cant be forced down a nations throat?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
I dont mind being wrong , but I was not wrong about that. If we did not remove Saddam Iraq would have spiraled into civil war anyway .. or his sons would have taken over the family business. Either way we were faced with a guy in power who could threaten us in the future. Besides that ,the "Beachhead" idea of fighting Islamic extremists by instilling a government opposed to their ideals is valid.

How was Saddam going to threaten in the future? With those WMDs??

Aaron747 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 30):
Will people ever realise that democracy cant be forced down a nations throat?

He only said that because he failed to read my signature Wink

AGM100 · Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 28):
Come on now, certainly you can be more cogent than that.

Threats come in small packages now adays Aaron. I think Saddam was delighted and possibly enlightened by 911... was it far fetched to think that he could threaten us?

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 30):
Will people ever realise that democracy cant be forced down a nations throat?

I Dont think we are forcing it down their throat , Plenty of Iraqis voted for their government I didn't see us forcing them. Our troops are fighting the people who do not want Iraqis to vote. Voting gives power to the people , very scary to the Jihadists.

ConcordeBoy · Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 26):
Yes, with some parts of that I agree, but I don't know if I would say "I'm ashamed of our country." I'm certainly disappointed in some citizens.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 26):
Anyway, I understand your points, but I'm still not ashamed of our country. There are far too many decent, heroic, hard working Americans that make me proud each and every day that define what our country stands for.

I think we agree here more than diction might suggest...
I'll never be ashamed of what America was founded upon and the freedoms we the people have drafted for ourselves.

What I'm ashamed of is the complacency/distraction that many Americans have come to espouse in spite of the goings on in both our domestic and international struggles. E.g. (and not to be cliche, but it works so well) the relative amounts of people who vote for American Idle and keep track of Paris Hilton's every move--- versus those who vote in political elections of any level and keep track of the moves of a shady Veep.

RIHNOSAUR · Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
I'm considering joining myself because I would love to go to Iraq with an M-16 and defeat the enemy.

oh....how much TV did you watch when you were a kid???? Seems like some one has been playing too many video games...

Seriously you are simplifying the issue waaayyyy too much...Stop and think and research the situation...I would suggest by trying to honestly define in your head who the enemy is????

hint: its not like in the Rambo films where they all wear the bad guy's uniform...

BigOrange · Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
Then you'd be going to the wrong country. Our original enemy is actually in Afghanistan. We inadvertently invited the enemy into Iraq and the enemy's invitation was extended and encouraged by the completely inept and absolutely corrupt new government. If you want to fight on behalf of their sin and incompetence, be my guest, but you'll only be helping them stay off the hook

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The war was the right thing to do and our guys did their job by getting Saddam

Wrong. Saddam was no threat to anyone except his own people.

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 16):
When I was in my 2nd semester of College back in 2003 all I heard was "they have weapons of mass destruction". It was never about freeing Iraqi people and bringing freedom to the country. At least from what I saw and heard

That was just the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld excuse to support their friends in big business

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 21):
Then you are part of the problem. I'm sorry, but it was absolutely NOT the right thing to do. It was completely unnecessary. You were wrong. But if the situation we're currently in doesn't scream that to you, then there's really nothing more to say. If you don't see by now how foolish this entire thing was, you never will.

O'Reilly Calls For Troop Withdrawl

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