aaflt1871
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Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:37 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19636099/



What the hell is wrong with this world?
Where did everybody go?
 
Kuna
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:38 am

Good lord, I agree what have we become?
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n710ps
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:42 am

To me this is a crime that warrents the death penalty to those involved, regardless of age in my opinion. They may bee teens but the damage inflicted on the wo victims is something I cannot even fathom the magnitude of for the life of me. That is how bad this is to me.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:44 am

WTF? that is sickening, man this is just disgusting. If people want to believe in "armageddon/final days", this would be a good point, wow this is really sick.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 2):
To me this is a crime that warrents the death penalty to those involved, regardless of age in my opinion. They may bee teens but the damage inflicted on the wo victims is something I cannot even fathom the magnitude of for the life of me. That is how bad this is to me.

 checkmark  Agreed. But then there are some people out there who don't believe in setting precedents of deterrence.  sarcastic 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 4):
Agreed. But then there are some people out there who don't believe in setting precedents of deterrence

Agreed, I believe in setting precedent, specially when dealing with such heinous crimes, in addition to eradicating gang violence, and other disgusting crimes. Bring out the Guillotine.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:57 am

How dumb can these kids be? leaving condoms at the home? Its one thing to do of such a horrendous crime, but to do it with such sheer stupidity is just unbelievable.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
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LTU932
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 2):
To me this is a crime that warrents the death penalty to those involved

 checkmark 

And if they are not eligible for the death penalty, then at least try them as adults and lock them up for good. This incident is just plain atrocious. How can people be so vicious to even consider such a crime as something they feel that they need to do? Those responsible are a danger to society.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
N1120A
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 4):
Agreed. But then there are some people out there who don't believe in setting precedents of deterrence

Hmmm. Then why is our murder rate higher than so many countries that don't have the death penalty?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
halls120
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Kuna (Reply 1):
Good lord, I agree what have we become?

A society that coddles criminals and makes excuses for unspeakably inhumane and egregious conduct, that's what.

Cue the bleeding hearts that will soon regale us with how these poor, misguided souls can be saved.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
waterpolodan
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Hmmm. Then why is our murder rate higher than so many countries that don't have the death penalty?

Gun laws? Social welfare policy? Poor quality of public schools? There are too many outside variables to find any meaningful correlation between the death penalty and the murder rate, IMO.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:35 am

Wow..that is just sick. The scum responsible for this act should be shot in public.
אני תומך בישראל
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 4):
Agreed. But then there are some people out there who don't believe in setting precedents of deterrence

Hmmm. Then why is our murder rate higher than so many countries that don't have the death penalty?

Sources. And it's apples and oranges if you mention 3rd world countries - too many different variables, as Waterpolodan mentioned.

Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 10):
There are too many outside variables to find any meaningful correlation between the death penalty and the murder rate, IMO.

There's truth to this.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:50 am

Actually, I found this concerning nations compared among each other concerning murder rates . . .

Murders (per capita) by country

. . . and found that, even with all our gun proliferation  scared  , we're still not as bad as some people might think. And in other countries, for example - Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Japan, the death penalty is allowed - Death Penalty Permitted - and the murder rate is lower than some of those glorious Western European nations, thus your attempt to draw any correlation against setting a precedent comes a bit short.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
LH423
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
. . . and found that, even with all our gun proliferation    , we're still not as bad as some people might think. And in other countries, for example - Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Japan, the death penalty is allowed - Death Penalty Permitted - and the murder rate is lower than some of those glorious Western European nations

Yes, because Indonesia and Saudi Arabia are such shining beacons of democracy and rule of law. If you're advocating turning the US justice system into something resembling Saudi Arabia's, you're free to move there if you like but hands off the US legal system.

I don't want to let this thread go any further off track than it has, but I will note that it's interesting that from the website you give, the US has the highest per capita murder rate of any 1st world, Western nation. Followed (surprisingly) by Finland and then Portugal. No, I'm not blaming the fact that the US has the death penalty to it's high murder rate. The US has a history of being a violent culture and one that has, throughout it's history, glorified it. From the stories of the Wild West, to how the country came to be in the first place, through war. All I'm saying is that I don't buy the argument that the death penalty acts as a deterrent. Maybe in Saudi Arabia, but try and be an open and free society with the laws of Saudi Arabia.

Now, that said. This is truly a heinous and despicable act. I always feel troubled when it's young people that commit crimes like this. While I don't believe they should be let out of prison anytime soon, I do hope they get some serious counselling while there. They obviously have some sort of pent up sexual aggression that needs to be dealt with. Because, whether you like it or not, this isn't a crime that will get them locked up for life, especially given their age and because they probably don't have a laundry list of offences. They will be on the street again someday and when they are, I hope they at least have worked out some of the demons in their heads.

LH423
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halls120
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 14):
They will be on the street again someday and when they are, I hope they at least have worked out some of the demons in their heads.

Sorry, but these animals shouldn't be let out into the public unless they have worked out ALL the demons in their heads.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
n710ps
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:04 pm

Other nations and statistics here are irrelevent. Lets focus on this event. I hate when analyst types start running number and compareing. Let us all be reminded that a family will forever be chaged in a terrible way because of the horrible actions of these "punks" and their sick twisted ideas. These individuals commited a crime that will forever have ruined the lives of two individuals and one of them being soo young that the risk of suiside and anti social behaivor that otherwise might not have been such a risk will become a massive risk. Even puttin those responseable to death will not change that either. I do not care what anyone says on that note about counceling because I work and councel kids who go bad, or have had events like this happen to them in their lives and i can tell you these people will NEVER EVER have a chance at a normal life again. Not to mention the trauma will probably destroy the family structure and respect levels of mother and son. This family is ruined for some peoples shits and giggles and it is terribly. Crucify those responseable and do it fast.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
N1120A
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 12):

Sources. And it's apples and oranges if you mention 3rd world countries -

I am talking about countries like France, Germany, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium...
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LH423
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 15):
Sorry, but these animals shouldn't be let out into the public unless they have worked out ALL the demons in their heads

I agree. Unfortunately, that's not up to you or me. It's just I know quite a lot will just say "throw the book at them and let them rot" but the reality is that it is entirely possible that these thugs will be roaming the streets again in a period of time that will not be satisfactory to a lot of people and rather than just sit them in prison where they'll most likely become even more hardened and violent people, these kids need to be deeply psychoanalysed and given counselling so that when they do get out, there's less of a chance that they'll repeat their crime.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
ltbewr
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:11 pm

If I was the mother or kid, or a relative of them and could determine the sick thugs that did this, I would consider taking the law into my hands, get some others to join me and hunt down these animal and shoot to kill. Of course that is illegal and wrong, but I wonder if a jury would ever convict or pass a non-jail sentence if a person in that position would do that.
I do hope that the sick thugs that did this crime are caught and end up getting gang raped in jail or end up getting knifed to death there.
 
N1120A
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
and the murder rate is lower than some of those glorious Western European nations,

Sorry pal, but your own list shows that to be wrong. There are some Eastern European nations up there, but none from Western Europe.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:20 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 14):
Because, whether you like it or not, this isn't a crime that will get them locked up for life

Dont' bet on it.... "If convicted, the maximum sentence for both is life in prison."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...paper/2007/07/06/0707juvenile.html

I know a few judges that wouldn't bat an eye giving them life.... and in Florida, life without parole means just that....
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
N1120A
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:23 pm

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 21):

Dont' bet on it.... "If convicted, the maximum sentence for both is life in prison."

Yep. The maximum sentence for rape is life pretty much anywhere in the US. The 14 year old, however, I don't necessarily see getting the max. Possibly not for the 16 year old either.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting LH423 (Reply 14):
All I'm saying is that I don't buy the argument that the death penalty acts as a deterrent.

You may be a swell guy, but I'm going to give you some imagery that in no way (to my knowledge) reflects on you or your character. If you made a threatening move to my family and I put a gun to your head and told you I'll blow your head to kingdom come if you make another threatening move, chances are you'll either come with more firepower than I have, find your head separated from your body or find what I mean by deterrence.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
and the murder rate is lower than some of those glorious Western European nations,

Sorry pal, but your own list shows that to be wrong. There are some Eastern European nations up there, but none from Western Europe.

Thanks for the arm over my shoulder  sarcastic , but the murder rate for Japan, Saudi, Indonesia is lower than those Western European nations.

Just to use some of your examples . . .

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
I am talking about countries like France, Germany, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium...

. . . France at 40, UK at 46, Germany at 49, Denmark at 53 . . .

. . . Indonesia at 57, Japan at 60, Saudi at 61 - all countries lower on the murder rate than several in Western Europe - and that are willing to employ the death penalty. You never know - if the death penalty was enforced in Western European nations, perhaps their murder rate might even be lower.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
StarAC17
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
How dumb can these kids be? leaving condoms at the home? Its one thing to do of such a horrendous crime, but to do it with such sheer stupidity is just unbelievable.

Its a simple fact that teenagers aren't smart and not likely intelligent at covering their tracks, their simply idiots are sick f*cks. Does anyone know the class of this kids as these seem like spoiled rich kids who may be able to use Daddy's jack to get off Scott free or without being tried as adults at the least. If they are middle class kids they are getting tried as adults (at least the 16 year old is) and getting 25 to life.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
If I was the mother or kid, or a relative of them and could determine the sick thugs that did this, I would consider taking the law into my hands, get some others to join me and hunt down these animal and shoot to kill. Of course that is illegal and wrong, but I wonder if a jury would ever convict or pass a non-jail sentence if a person in that position would do that.

You would probably get the needle for that as it would be murder 1 if caught and I believe thats the death penalty in Florida. It would all depend on the jury, I would say that life with the chance of parole or a 15-20 year sentence would be expected. If these kids end up walking and it was my family I would attempt to do something to teach them a lesson.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
How dumb can these kids be? leaving condoms at the home? Its one thing to do of such a horrendous crime, but to do it with such sheer stupidity is just unbelievable.

check this video out, has interviews with family and neighborhood
:
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2642.html

Now did any of those people in that video clip strike you as NOT dumb???

I wonder... they interviewed the grandmother (who didn't even look old enough to have a 12-14yr old grandson), but where was the mother and father? Did they refuse to be interviewed, or was the grandmother the child's guardian?

And where is the father/husband of the two victims?

The whole situation seems fucked up. What do we do with these kids? Committing a crime like this, at this age, they're already lost. Throw them into a juvenile jail, where their chances of rehabilitation are slim to none. I dunno. Maybe the death penalty has merit.

-UH60
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MaidensGator
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 24):
Does anyone know the class of this kids as these seem like spoiled rich kids who may be able to use Daddy's jack to get off Scott free or without being tried as adults at the least. If they are middle class kids they are getting tried as adults (at least the 16 year old is) and getting 25 to life.

They are very poor kids, which is no excuse for the crime.... but they won't be buying any hotshot lawyers....

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 24):
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
If I was the mother or kid, or a relative of them and could determine the sick thugs that did this, I would consider taking the law into my hands, get some others to join me and hunt down these animal and shoot to kill. Of course that is illegal and wrong, but I wonder if a jury would ever convict or pass a non-jail sentence if a person in that position would do that.

You would probably get the needle for that as it would be murder 1 if caught and I believe thats the death penalty in Florida. It would all depend on the jury, I would say that life with the chance of parole or a 15-20 year sentence would be expected.

If convicted of first degree murder in Florida you'll do at least 25 years before parole... But I wouldn't bet on a conviction; jury nullification happens more than you might think...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:58 pm

Sick young people. They should not be given light sentences because of their Juvenille age. Muake them serve the fulkl adult sentence and consequences.

What would posses such young kids to turn to this kind of crap
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:13 pm

Very sick. I hope they go to prison. At lest give them manner lessons.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Mir
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 16):
Even puttin those responseable to death will not change that either.

Then why do it?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 15):
Sorry, but these animals shouldn't be let out into the public unless they have worked out ALL the demons in their heads.

 checkmark 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
n710ps
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:47 pm

Closure, accountability, and punishment for their crimes. Plain and simple. These victims will never be the same but as a result of these individuals "cutting short" the normal lives of two others I think it is ample and fair to cut short the lives all together of those who commited this heinous crime against other humans. The closest to revenge besides the death penalty being followed through on itself is that these kids will be forced to think about the actions, how it could have been averted and that they are going to die premature of their lifespan as a result of this stupidity and cruelty. I think that the terror that would be inflicted asa result of a sentence like that on "kids" is quite right personally. I think that these kids will defineately serve a purpose by getting the needle. No mommy and daddy to save them from the system and death. And the fact that they will surely think to themselves how terrible it is that they got to exist as free people on this planet not even long enough to drive a car or get the chance to do so and their life is over in every sense of the way. From the freedom to life in all actuality. These kids should not be allowed to ever exist on this planet in a way that they could live their life out in any sense. They are not allowing that mother and son to by the actions commited. Not only that but if they were placed in the "big boy" system they will surely get a dose of their own meds many times over. There is no limit in my mind or heart to how much I beleive these people responseable should suffer is what it comes down to. Murder and rape to me are two things I cannot forgive and I beleive death when fact exists that this was a brutal, intentional, and thought out plan should be the only answer to it. End of rant. Off to bed now. G'night everyone.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
Mir
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
Closure

Can be achieved with life in prison.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
accountability

Can also be achieved with life in prison.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
punishment for their crimes.

I find death to be a rather barbaric punishment.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
The closest to revenge

The government should not be in the business of revenge.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
I think that the terror that would be inflicted asa result of a sentence like that on "kids" is quite right personally.

The only purpose for inflicting terror on someone is in an effort to reform their actions. That's not really useful in a death sentence.

Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):
No mommy and daddy to save them from the system

No mommy or daddy to save them from prison either.

There's a reson it's called the correction system. Putting someone to death doesn't correct anything. These kids are seriously screwed up, but they are kids (which isn't to excuse their behavior). Keep them in prison until they get themselves straightened out. And if they end up spending the rest of their days, then so be it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Springbok747
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
Putting someone to death doesn't correct anything.

Sure it does - for one you can be damn sure that the guy who committed the crime won't be doing it again if he is dead.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
and found that, even with all our gun proliferation , we're still not as bad as some people might think.

Actually, look at South Africa. Its a prime example of a cluster fuck without the death penalty. Under the apartheid government..things were under control, because the scum committing the crimes were afraid of getting strung up. Now all they have to worry about is spending their lives in a jail..with cable TV, a roof over their heads..and getting 3 meals a day. No wonder the crime rate has shot up over the last decade in that country.
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N1120A
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 23):

. . . Indonesia at 57, Japan at 60, Saudi at 61 - all countries lower on the murder rate than several in Western Europe - and that are willing to employ the death penalty.

Lets see. Two incredibly repressive societies and another that uses the death penalty incredibly sparingly, to the point that the last Minister of Justice refused to sign death warrants. Not good examples.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bill142
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:59 pm

Bring back the cane. These kids probably needed a lashing or plenty across the backside at school, except that the school system would rather 'counsel' problem students, rather then dishing out harsh punishments. We've created a generation who lack respect for their fellow man.
 
Mir
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 32):
Sure it does - for one you can be damn sure that the guy who committed the crime won't be doing it again if he is dead.

Ah, correcting crimes that have not been committed. Tom Cruise would be proud of you.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 32):
Actually, look at South Africa. Its a prime example of a cluster fuck without the death penalty. Under the apartheid government..things were under control, because the scum committing the crimes were afraid of getting strung up. Now all they have to worry about is spending their lives in a jail..with cable TV, a roof over their heads..and getting 3 meals a day. No wonder the crime rate has shot up over the last decade in that country.

It may be just me, but I'm not sure that the "leader of the free world" should be taking cues from an apartheid government on how to run a justice system.

-Mir

[Edited 2007-07-07 09:04:24]
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ltbewr
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:32 pm

From a reading of the articles and some reasonable assumptions, the victims were Haitian and the attackers were most probably African-American. The attacks took place in a public housing project for the poor, so probably both the victims and the attackers were from low income or welfare collecting households. That is a recipe for broken families, and young people not learning hot to be responsible citizens.
West Palm Beach is a place with some of the richest people in the world, or at least the USA, have homes (like Donald Trump), a downtown with high end shopping and stores but literally on the 'other side of the tracks' the de facto segregated area where the poor and usually African-Americans and others of dark skin color live. In the past and still true to some extent today, that is the homes of the housekeepers, property maintenance staff, cooks, restaurant workers and the like to the rich and the hotels. It also has a very well known high crime rate, few 2 parent families, women that have children in their mid-teens for generations, lousy schools, criminal youth gangs, drug dealing (including for the rich) and so on.
The attackers probably never had a chance to be normal and decent people, but they allegedly committed obscene in acts and the worst of them will most probably will face extensive jail time well into adult age upon conviction.
 
Arniepie
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
Actually, I found this concerning nations compared among each other concerning murder rates . .

Just to set the records straight, nationmaster is not always the best source for info like this, certainly not for US figures strangely enough.
According to the FBI, a more reliable source IMHO there where about 16,912 murders in the US in 2005 which translates to 0,057 per 100,000 citizens (official pop. in 2005 was about 295 million) and compared with other countries it puts them in the top 10 or 15 in the industrialized world , still very high I would say certainly taken its level of wealth.

Just to set the records straight because I have noticed that often this website is somewhat shaky when it comes to US statistics which is strange certainly considering its origins.
[edit post]
 
S12PPL
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RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:09 am

Jesus what is wrong with people????

Some sick fricken bastards.
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n710ps
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Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
I find death to be a rather barbaric punishment.

And what do you call what they did? Kind and careing? Kill them and get it over with. And let it be a lesson. I am tired of this oh it is unfair lets reform them stuff. What was done was unprevoked and horrible. There should be no age of fairness. You do it you pay the price even keeled and all. If it warrents death, line up the firing squad.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:32 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 32):
Sure it does - for one you can be damn sure that the guy who committed the crime won't be doing it again if he is dead.

And we won't have to feed, and house them with free heath care for 50+ years at $30,000+ per year.
Also these animals won't be breeding any future criminals if they are dead. Three strikes and your dead would help clean out the prison overcrowding we now have due to repeat offenders.
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
Bring out the Guillotine.

It's about time those made a come-back.  Angry

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
And if they are not eligible for the death penalty, then at least try them as adults and lock them up for good.

Normally I agree with the Canadian views on the death penalty (The only thing you can receive it for is Treason), but this is beyond deserving of eternal damnation.

Guillotine Please
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:35 am

How calm of a person I might be, I would really like to meet these guys and let them feel what pain and suffer is.

Some of you might then think that i am not better then they are for thinking like this but let me then tell you that this is so sick that these brats should never see daylight again.

This I write as father as I can not imagine what son and mother went through, and are going through right at this moment.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):The closest to revenge
The government should not be in the business of revenge.

I agree. The death penalty should never be about revenge. Instead, it should be about removing from society those defective individuals that have demonstrated an inability to ever live peaceably in civil society.

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
Quoting N710PS (Reply 30):I think that the terror that would be inflicted asa result of a sentence like that on "kids" is quite right personally.
The only purpose for inflicting terror on someone is in an effort to reform their actions. That's not really useful in a death sentence.

Inflicting terror is not the reason we should put people to death. Instead, it should be about removing from society those defective individuals that have demonstrated an inability to ever live peaceably in civil society.

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
There's a reson it's called the correction system. Putting someone to death doesn't correct anything.

The death penalty, properly applied, isn't designed to "correct" anything. Instead, it will prevent future homicidal conduct by the perpetrator.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 32):
Sure it does - for one you can be damn sure that the guy who committed the crime won't be doing it again if he is dead.
Ah, correcting crimes that have not been committed. Tom Cruise would be proud of you.

Imagine you are in prison for 5 years. Do you want to be released when your sentence is up? I imagine so. The odds of you being released would be higher if we had fewer homicidal maniacs serving life sentences.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Springbok747
Posts: 3993
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
Ah, correcting crimes that have not been committed. Tom Cruise would be proud of you.

Thats exactly why the death penalty exists isn't it? To prevent the perp from committing future crimes and also to make him/her pay for the crimes they committed. I don't understand your argument here.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
It may be just me, but I'm not sure that the "leader of the free world" should be taking cues from an apartheid government on how to run a justice system.

I never said that the "leader of the free world" should take cues from an apartheid govt (its a democracy now BTW). I used the example of SA to highlight the fact that the death penalty does indeed deter criminals (at least in Africa anyway).
אני תומך בישראל
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 39):
And what do you call what they did? Kind and careing?

No, what they did was pretty damn brutal and barbaric,about as brutal and barbaric as you can get. But just because they are brutal and barbaric doesn't mean that the government should sink to that level.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 44):
I never said that the "leader of the free world" should take cues from an apartheid govt (its a democracy now BTW). I used the example of SA to highlight the fact that the death penalty does indeed deter criminals (at least in Africa anyway).

It's unfair to compare the death penalty practices of a repressive government to those of a democratic government. It's like saying that Iraq was better off under Saddam because there was more order - sure, there was, but at a very high cost. The US is not a rule-by-fear country the way South Africa under apartheid (and yes, I know it's a democracy now) and Saddam's Iraq were, and what works in one may not work in another. The principles of the justice systems are quite different.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
Instead, it should be about removing from society those defective individuals that have demonstrated an inability to ever live peaceably in civil society.

How exactly does one demonstrate an inability to EVER live peaceably in civil society? These kids are certainly not capable of living peaceably in society at the moment, and in all probability won't be for some time, but how does one know with certainty that they will never be?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 43):
The death penalty, properly applied, isn't designed to "correct" anything. Instead, it will prevent future homicidal conduct by the perpetrator.

There is no way of knowing that there will be future homicidal conduct that needs to be prevented. Also, life in prison would also prevent future homicidal conduct.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
aaflt1871
Topic Author
Posts: 2165
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
I find death to be a rather barbaric punishment.

Question for you.

Put yourself in that situation, you mother gets gang raped while you are forced to watch, your are listening to your mom scream and cry for help, only you cannot do anything to help her. Then you are forced to have sex with your mother, then you have shit poured into your eyes to try and blind you.


You still find death Barbaric? Would you as the victim not want them dead for what they have done to your family? I know the death penalty will not come into the picture for this crime as it does not apply, but what punishment would you want them to get?
Where did everybody go?
 
sw733
Posts: 5878
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:30 am

To me, this is absolutely horrible, absolutely shocking, and truly disgusting. But...

Quoting N710PS (Reply 2):
To me this is a crime that warrents the death penalty to those involved, regardless of age in my opinion



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
And if they are not eligible for the death penalty, then at least try them as adults and lock them up for good

Umm...sorry, but...nobody died. Try getting the death penalty if nobody died.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 21):
Dont' bet on it.... "If convicted, the maximum sentence for both is life in prison."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...oh that's so cute, thinking people in America serve maximum sentences.

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
I find death to be a rather barbaric punishment.

Less barbaric and more humane than what they did.

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
But just because they are brutal and barbaric doesn't mean that the government should sink to that level.

Depends who you talk to. I'd love to see these guys executed...maybe actually teach people a lesson other than the slap on the wrist they will probably get, or few years until they are 18 or 21. I think the death penalty is far above the level of what these folks did.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
How exactly does one demonstrate an inability to EVER live peaceably in civil society?

Two words - Charles Manson. For starters.

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
These kids are certainly not capable of living peaceably in society at the moment, and in all probability won't be for some time, but how does one know with certainty that they will never be?

While I'm in favor of the death penalty in general, It's probably not appropriate in this case.


Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
There is no way of knowing that there will be future homicidal conduct that needs to be prevented. Also, life in prison would also prevent future homicidal conduct.

True. There is also no way of knowing whether all life on earth will be obliterated by an asteroid or comet in the next 50 years. And during those 50 years, I'd prefer that we do without people who have demonstrated the capacity to murder other people in cold blood repeatedly.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
aaflt1871
Topic Author
Posts: 2165
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: Teens Allegedly Force Mother, Son To Have Sex

Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 47):
Umm...sorry, but...nobody died. Try getting the death penalty if nobody died.

Now to swerve off course for a moment, Nobody has to die to get a death penalty.

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