Mating A Dodge Cumings Diesel With A Ford C6 Tran

L-188 · Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:30 pm

Hey guys.

Does anybody out there know if there is a company that is making an adaptor kit to fit a Ford C-6 tranny to the Dodge Cumings Diesel engine?

Not that I am really looking at making a hemaphradite truck, but arguably the cumings motor is a hell of a lot better diesel out there then some of the used 6.5 and 7.3 International Harvester enginers that Ford used.

Superfly · Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:51 pm

Interesting idea.
I have a C6 transmission in my Lincoln Continental. It's been going going strong for 30 years now. Do the 7.3 International Harvester diesel boldt up to the C6?
If gas shoots up to $12.00 a gallon, I just may to consider this sort of engine swap.

I just removed the transmission cooler a few months ago because it was leaking and really don't need since I am not towing anyithing. Perhaps that has prolonged the transmission lifespan.

CaptOveur · Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:40 pm

By chance do you mean a Cummins engine?

topics like this are why people from Alaska fascinate me.. Someday I think I want to live there. Unlike Texans, Alaskans do cool shit with their idle time.. Like make the automotive equivalent to a Centaur.

checkraiser · Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:10 pm

Are you transplanting the Cummins into a Ford, or the Ford trans into a Mopar?

IMO, it's not worth the headache. You'll have electronics issues - amongst other things. The 7.3 Harvester is a fine engine. It's the 6L Harvester that's a POS. A 7.3 is just about as sturdy as the Cummins B, and for certain years (98,99) much better.

The C6 is, without a doubt, the best built auto trans out there. But no OD; on a diesel don't expect much for a top speed, and your MPG will hurt.

Superfly · Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 3):
The C6 is, without a doubt, the best built auto trans out there.

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 3):
But no OD

The earlier C6's don't have overdrive.

It sounds like L-188 wants to transplant the Cummins in to a Ford. I doubt Alaska has much in terms of restrictions on emissions so I am sure he can bypass those pesky computer issues.

MCOflyer · Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:37 pm

Where is Falstaff when we need him? I'm sure he and Seb146 and Go3Team can shed some light.

The 7.3 is a better engine than the 6.0. I've heard better things about the 7.3 from a mechanics who regularly change out 6.0 for 7.3. L188 you can still get a pretty decent new or used for the right amount of money.

Hunter

checkraiser · Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
The earlier C6's don't have overdrive.

No C6 has overdrive. The AOD and E4OD were the decendants that incorporated the 4th gear.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I doubt Alaska has much in terms of restrictions on emissions so I am sure he can bypass those pesky computer issues.

The computers in a modern diesel don't just control emissions. Pretty much all light duty diesels went to "drive by wire" in the mid 90s. These computers interface to the trans, insturment panel, cruise control, etc... Doing this swap with electronic engines would be virtuall impossible. With the money spent you could buy a new truck.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
I've heard better things about the 7.3 from a mechanics who regularly change out 6.0 for 7.3.

Nobody does this swap. It would be illegal - the 7.3 does not meet the EPA '02 NOx and PM regulations. That's the whole reason the 6.0L was born.

MCOflyer · Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
That's the whole reason the 6.0L was born.

Well he told me the 7.3 was better. This was a ford mechanic telling me this. I appreciate the info checkraiser.

Hunter

Superfly · Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 6):
No C6 has overdrive.

That's what I've always thought but someone had mentioned that the ones in the F-350 that lasted to 1997 had the C6 with overdrive. I never verified that.

Go3Team · Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:09 am

It would be one hell of a headache trying to get all of that done. The ECM on the Cummins has inputs from the transmission, that it needs to run properly. Without these inputs, you might as well just throw your money away.

Superfly · Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:12 am

How does the Ford/International Harvester 7.3 diesel compare to the Cummins?

L-188:
Is this for your 1979 Ford F-150 truck?

Go3Team · Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
How does the Ford/International Harvester 7.3 diesel compare to the Cummins?

The older 7.3 isn't all that great. The older Cummins from the same era also isn't all that great. The newer models that Ford and Dodge both have are pretty decent. I've never driven a 5.9 Cummins that they put in the Dodge, but I drive a truck equipped with a Cummins everyday. I am pretty pleased with its performance and reliability. I have also driven my friends F-250 with the newer Powerstroke, and it is a beast. It has plenty of power, and fuel economy to boot.

Superfly · Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:50 am

This is the first I have ever heard of the 7.3 not being a good engine. I have hard some complaints about the new 6.0.

Go3Team · Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
This is the first I have ever heard of the 7.3 not being a good engine.

I think I worded that wrong, I ment it is underpowered compared to the newer powerstrokes.

L-188 · Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
L-188:
Is this for your 1979 Ford F-150 truck?

It is actually an 81'.

I don't know. I still have that truck and I think anywhere else in the country it would be on it's way to the scrapper. But it does have the straight six motor and I do think highly of that one.

I was just trying to come up with a project.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
This is the first I have ever heard of the 7.3 not being a good engine. I have hard some complaints about the new 6.0

Yeah the teething issues with that engine where severe enough Ford and Navistar parted company.

W

checkraiser · Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:10 am

A much more feasible project for that truck would be to drop a 351 into it. If the body is clean and it's 4X4 that truck is worth a few bucks around here, even if it has a tired motor. Do they use road salt up there?

Superfly · Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 15):
A much more feasible project for that truck would be to drop a 351 into it.

Why not go all the way and drop in a 460cu"?
Mines is 30 years old and still runs strong and very quite. No leaks, doesn't burn oil and always pass California's strick emissions test.

L-188:
Do you have sentimental attachment to this truck? If not, find another one from the same era and same series such as the F-350 or 250 supercab with a 460cu" and keep all shared parts of your 1981 and get rid of the rest of the truck.

TSS · Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
L-188:
Do you have sentimental attachment to this truck? If not, find another one from the same era and same series such as the F-350 or 250 supercab with a 460cu" and keep all shared parts of your 1981 and get rid of the rest of the truck.

By far the best suggestion yet. The 460 is Ford's best and most advanced OHV engine, plus they're easy to work on and parts are cheap and easy to find.

Superfly · Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 17):
The 460 is Ford's best and most advanced OHV engine,

A friend of mine that is an engineer turned airline pilot told me that those engines were carefully crafted and designed with extra attention to detail because they were specifically for Lincoln only back in 1968. They eventually made there way in to the trucks, vans as well as Mercury & Ford full-sized and mid-sized cars years later.
Not sure how true this is but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.

L-188 · Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 17):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
L-188:
Do you have sentimental attachment to this truck? If not, find another one from the same era and same series such as the F-350 or 250 supercab with a 460cu" and keep all shared parts of your 1981 and get rid of the rest of the truck.

By far the best suggestion yet. The 460 is Ford's best and most advanced OHV engine, plus they're easy to work on and parts are cheap and easy to find.

Agreed, but by the same token a 460 does a number on the gas bill. I was hoping for something a bit more efficent hence the difference.

Superfly · Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
Agreed, but by the same token a 460 does a number on the gas bill. I was hoping for something a bit more efficent hence the difference.

Is the 6 cylinder in a full sized truck significantly better in terms of mileage? How about the 351cu"?

TSS · Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
It is actually an 81'.

I don't know. I still have that truck and I think anywhere else in the country it would be on it's way to the scrapper. But it does have the straight six motor and I do think highly of that one.

I was just trying to come up with a project.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
a 460 does a number on the gas bill. I was hoping for something a bit more efficent hence the difference.

Ahhh...
Well then, why not either update your current 300/6 to fuel injection OR put a later-model fuel-injected 300/6 in the engine bay? No more real power, but throttle response and gas mileage will improve considerably.

Of course if you're going to go to all that trouble, you might as well buy a '95 or earlier F-150: Same truck, more modern drivetrain.

(However, I think the '80-'84 F-150 dashboard and fenders are far more attractive than subsequent versions on the same basic body.)

checkraiser · Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:46 pm

My dad had a '90 F250 with the 460. It's reliable but I don't think it was all that snappy. Lots of torque, but it was also slow revving.

If you want decent HP without the heavy fuel hit toss a 302 in. They're a dime a dozen and easily modified if you find yourself yearning for more ponies.

Venus6971 · Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Is the 6 cylinder in a full sized truck significantly better in terms of mileage? How about the 351cu"?

Have owned numerous ford trucks with the 300 CI, 302CI, 351wCI. The most durable is the 300ci and probably the best engine ford ever built, gas mileage was in the high teens depending on how I drove it, it was in my 75 ford f150 3 speed on the tree, I miss that old truck. 2nd truck was a 85 Bronco with the a 351 and 4 barrell holley carburator. It had great power with nice response on the throttle with great torque but could not pass a gas station without stopping only had a 16 gallon gas tank. My 90 Bronco had a 302 in it, great fuel milage for that size of engine got 21 mph on a cross country from okc to Colorado springs but hp was suspect, did not have the get up and go like my 85. My 92 Bronco and my 92 F-150 has a 351 in it with e4od trans. The bronco gets 15mph and the PU gets 13mph, plenty of torque. When I have problems I swap parts between the the two to troubleshoot makes it a whole cheaper. Also have a 98 Expedition with the 4.6L, did the last tune up myself, wasn't to hard to get plugs out if you have a long extension plug sockets and imagination, all of my vehicles have way over 100K miles on them and still going strong. prefer the 4.6 to the 5.9 because of ease of mx and gas mileage.

Superfly · Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:25 am

Venus6971:
Was that the same engine used in the Maverick/Comet and Granada/Monarch?

TSS · Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
Was that the same engine used in the Maverick/Comet and Granada/Monarch?

Nope, completely different engine.
The 140-cubic-inch I-6 was developed for the 1960 Ford Falcon and has an intake manifold cast in one piece with the cylinder head. 170-, 200-, and 250-cubic-inch Ford I-6's are enlarged versions of the 140.

The 300-cubic-inch I-6 is an enlarged version of the 240-cubic-inch I-6, which has a removable intake manifold and due to it's larger external dimensions was only ever available in full-sized Ford cars and pickups.

Venus6971 · Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 25):
Nope, completely different engine.
The 140-cubic-inch I-6 was developed for the 1960 Ford Falcon and has an intake manifold cast in one piece with the cylinder head. 170-, 200-, and 250-cubic-inch Ford I-6's are enlarged versions of the 140.

The 300-cubic-inch I-6 is an enlarged version of the 240-cubic-inch I-6, which has a removable intake manifold and due to it's larger external dimensions was only ever available in full-sized Ford cars and pickups.

My dad had a 80 fairmont with one of them smaller I-6's, the engine was ok but the car was a POS. On my 75 F-150 I-6 300ci it ran well with the carburator hanging on with 1 bolt with a massive vacuum leak. Plus that has to be the easiet engine ever to work on.

Superfly · Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 26):
My dad had a 80 fairmont with one of them smaller I-6's, the engine was ok but the car was a POS.

A friend of mines parents had one when he was a kid. Till this day he compalins about a long road trip they took in it back in 1980. Theirs had no air conditioning and vinyl seat.

There is an old doctor in my neighborhood that has the Mercury Zephyr coupe version fully loaded. His is green with the reverse beige vinyl top like the Givenchy edition Mark V.

T prop · Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:21 am

Is this what you want to do?

These guys have what you need but it's gonna cost you.

TSS · Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 26):
My dad had a 80 fairmont with one of them smaller I-6's, the engine was ok but the car was a POS.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
A friend of mines parents had one when he was a kid. Till this day he complains about a long road trip they took in it back in 1980. Theirs had no air conditioning and vinyl seat.

I had an '82 Fairmont Futura Coupe with the 200/6 for 4 1/2 years. Although it was no-one's idea of a race car, it was tough as nails and absurdly easy to work on. I chucked the (broken) original front bench seat and put in a 50/50 split bench from an '82 Thunderbird which made a huge improvement in driver comfort. My only real complaint with it was the bog-slow steering which had almost 5 turns lock-to-lock...inexcusable in a rack & pinion setup.
At 280,000 miles it got rear-ended and, thanks to the excellent insurance of the person who rear-ended me, was totalled out for more money than I'd paid when I bought it. Big grin

L-188 · Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 28):
Is this what you want to do?

Yeah something like that.

Maybe with a Bronco though.

Superfly · Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
Although it was no-one's idea of a race car, it was tough as nails and absurdly easy to work on.

In terms of durability, I've heard nothing but great reviews from people that's owned them. There are about 4 or 5 of them in my neighborhood that are still running strong with no rust.
There was a A.net member here named Fordlover that no longer post here that has a 1979 wagon with a 351cu" and I think he added a turbocharger.
The high water mark for the Fox platform sedans was the LTD LX and Lincoln Continental Versace or Valentino Editions.
I wouldn't mind having that Zephyr coupe but with a tricked out 351cu" under the hood.
Remember, these came with a 302cu" up till 1980 and that is the same block as the 351cu".

TSS · Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Remember, these came with a 302cu" up till 1980 and that is the same block as the 351cu".

Yes...and no.
Although they're basically the same, I think 351 Windsors use a slightly wider block than 302s due to their 1/2" longer stroke. This necessitates different frame mounts for 351Ws and 302s, and unlike GM's bolt-on frame mounts, the frame mounts on Fox-body cars are welded to the front crossmember.
Now if we're going to indulge in some serious pie-in-the-sky engine swaps that involve welding of frames, why not go for a Ford 400 in a Fox-body? The 400s have huge and very smooth intake and exhaust ports and with an aftermarket 4bbl manifold (Ford only offered 2bbl 400s from the factory) they can be made to run very well.

L-188 · Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 32):
Now if we're going to indulge in some serious pie-in-the-sky engine swaps that involve welding of frames, why not go for a Ford 400 in a Fox-body? The 400s have huge and very smooth intake and exhaust ports and with an aftermarket 4bbl manifold (Ford only offered 2bbl 400s from the factory) they can be made to run very well.

My dads old 79 F-350 had a 400 in it. He also had a 76 with a 390 in it.

I understand the 390 had some issues, but the 400 was a good engine.

Superfly · Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 32):
Now if we're going to indulge in some serious pie-in-the-sky engine swaps that involve welding of frames, why not go for a Ford 400 in a Fox-body?

That has crossed my mind many times but I've had bad experiences with that engine. My first Lincoln was a Town Coupe with a 400cu" and those things are awful in the Lincolns and a friend's dad had one in his 1973 Ford truck. Mines died at 180,000 miles. My friend's dad was on his 3rd. rebuild 400cu" last time we spoke in 1998.
I am sure they would be great in a Fox platform or even a Panther Town Car up till 1990 (last year for 302cu" in Town Car).

Quoting TSS (Reply 32):
The 400s have huge and very smooth intake and exhaust ports and with an aftermarket 4bbl manifold (Ford only offered 2bbl 400s from the factory) they can be made to run very well.

My sister's husband has a white-glove, showroom condition Town Car that he enters in shows but sadly has that 400cu" engine. Sad

He may be delighted to hear about the 4bbl carb idea. Problem is that he is one of those car guys that like all the serial numbers to match on every part.
The 400cu" in the full-sized Lincolns were dogs and overheated easily. I assume it's the same for a full-sized truck that hauls cargo.

In terms of "some serious pie-in-the-sky engine swaps", I'd like to see a Cummins turbo diesel in a 1982-1984 AMC Eagle stationwagon with woodgrain side panels. yes

I think Checkraiser or some A.net member considered doing that with a AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer which came with a 360cu" which was availible for the Hornet which is the same car as the Eagle.

TSS · Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
In terms of "some serious pie-in-the-sky engine swaps", I'd like to see a Cummins turbo diesel in a 1982-1984 AMC Eagle stationwagon with woodgrain side panels. I think Checkraiser or some A.net member considered doing that with a AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer which came with a 360cu" which was availible for the Hornet which is the same car as the Eagle.

Hmmm...I wonder if it would fit?
In the National Automobile Museum in Reno, there is a full-size Wagoneer with a Ferrari V-12 in it's engine bay that was used by Bill Harrah for commuting between his casinos in Reno and Lake Tahoe. In order to get the engine to fit in the relatively short underhood space it has two radiators, one on either side of the engine.

MrFord · Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
That has crossed my mind many times but I've had bad experiences with that engine. My first Lincoln was a Town Coupe with a 400cu" and those things are awful in the Lincolns and a friend's dad had one in his 1973 Ford truck. Mines died at 180,000 miles. My friend's dad was on his 3rd. rebuild 400cu" last time we spoke in 1998.
I am sure they would be great in a Fox platform or even a Panther Town Car up till 1990 (last year for 302cu" in Town Car).

I knew a 400ci would be a bad idea in a Mark V... just by looking at it hehe.
But it's a good thing to hear, it's gonna be another reason to only check for 460ci Mark V... as soon as I can have a big enough garage there Smile

checkraiser · Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
I think Checkraiser or some A.net member considered doing that with a AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer which came with a 360cu" which was availible for the Hornet which is the same car as the Eagle.

Wasn't me. I've been involved in some exotic engine swaps and I don't feel they're worth the effort. Just my twocents

L-188 · Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
I think Checkraiser or some A.net member considered doing that with a AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer which came with a 360cu" which was availible for the Hornet which is the same car as the Eagle.

Late 70's early 80's Jeep Gladiator.

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