aaflt1871
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Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:45 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/


"A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims"






This is not the solution.
Where did everybody go?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:52 am

Wow, this has so much potential to backfire it's not even funny.

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Thread starter):
This is not the solution.

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MDorBust
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:00 am

Wow, Allah is going to be pissed when he finds out he got an unwilling sex change.
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RIXrat
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:11 am

Yeah, right. Let this guy carry on in his own downstream religion.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:16 am

Allah isn't even the name of the Muslim God. Allah means God in Arabic (correct me if I'm wrong though), so I presume even Arab Christians would call God "Allah", because that's how he's known in Arabic. What he's proposing is pointless, because we'd just call God in a different language. It's like imposing on Latin American countries that instead of "Dios" or "Deus", they use the German word "Gott" or the Japanese word "Kami" instead. I agree, this will backfire.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
aloges
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relatio

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:25 am

How about I say what I want and he says what he wants? We were all created by the FSM anyway, so it really doesn't matter.



RAmen!

[Edited 2007-08-15 23:38:45]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
BA
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Allah isn't even the name of the Muslim God. Allah means God in Arabic (correct me if I'm wrong though), so I presume even Arab Christians would call God "Allah", because that's how he's known in Arabic.

You are absolutely correct.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
What he's proposing is pointless, because we'd just call God in a different language.

 checkmark 
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srbmod
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:11 am

Makes you wonder if this bishop has been spending a little too much time in the coffee shops in Amsterdam.

One thing for sure is doing as such could potentially further fan the flames of the militant Islamic groups. Someone's bound to get upset that the "infidels" call their god the name they call their god.
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:42 am

What has he been smoking?

Rob
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
bravo45
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:20 pm

To merely have protested against the decorations awarded to the Dutch soldiers involved in the Srebrenica massacre would have been much better IMO.

The will to improve relations between communities is great but with that as the aim, the thing to keep foremost in one's mind is that, its ignorance and misunderstanding that makes relations strain in the first place. So one should really understand the other side before taking any step. I am not sure how Muslims fare in Holland, but as a Muslim think this kind of a move will harm their own community more than it will benefit the Muslims or the relations. On the other hand the mere fact of making such statements with the aim of improving relations in itself should be enough. I am not sure what to think about this, but I don't think something like this can/should ever happen.

What is the state of Muslims in Holland? I know a little about what's going on in Sweden where it appears they have been too hospitable, taking in a lot of refugees etc which is having very negative effects on their own society and inter community relations because the Muslims there tend to be uneducated thus unemployed and poor.
 
IL76
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
I know a little about what's going on in Sweden where it appears they have been too hospitable, taking in a lot of refugees etc which is having very negative effects on their own society and inter community relations because the Muslims there tend to be uneducated thus unemployed and poor.

Same here. Goes for most of them, but not all I have to say. I have some (Muslim) colleagues who are doing great.
But the majority lives at the bottom of the society. The first immigrants came here to work (in the 60's), which went well. Then they brought their 20+ families over who didn't work and still do not speak the language, got 8 kids on average who get raised by parents who have no clue how the Dutch society works. These kids are now young adults and 'stuck' between their heritage culture and the Dutch culture. They don't completely fit into either of them, which makes them kling together. All kinds strange gang-problems as a result. And if you don't mix with everyone else, your chance on a good job or education is very slim...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Thread starter):
refer to God as Allah

-
rather stupid. Allah is the Arabic word for what in English is "God", or "Dieu" in French. And Arab Christians, roughly 10 millions in Egypt alone, plus the Maltese use the term "Allah" just as the "God" is used in English language.
-

Quoting IL76 (Reply 10):
. I have some (Muslim) colleagues who are doing great.
But the majority lives at the bottom of the society.

What a surprise ! And you want to say that immigrants from the Peloponnes, Sicily, Calabria, Andalusia and the Alentejo are at the TOP of the society ??

Quoting IL76 (Reply 10):
Then they brought their 20+ families over who didn't work and still do not speak the language

Very strange. Many Europeans complain about this. While the reality is that the second/third generation immigrants no longer really speak their "native" language but in general use the language of the place where they live, and often have become citizens of long ago.

Quoting IL76 (Reply 10):
got 8 kids on average

no doubt. But that "average" will mellow down within one or two decades

Quoting IL76 (Reply 10):
These kids are now young adults and 'stuck' between their heritage culture and the Dutch culture. They don't completely fit into either of them, which makes them kling together.

to be "stuck" between various cultures IS a serious challenge, but in reality an interesting challenge.
-
 
IL76
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
And you want to say that immigrants from the Peloponnes, Sicily, Calabria, Andalusia and the Alentejo are at the TOP of the society ??

I do?  Confused Are you my conscience talking, or what?
 
Banco
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:23 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Allah isn't even the name of the Muslim God. Allah means God in Arabic (correct me if I'm wrong though), so I presume even Arab Christians would call God "Allah", because that's how he's known in Arabic.

And the God of Old Testament, is called Yahweh. Yet no-one uses that, they use the local language term instead, in the case of English - God.

Or as I prefer Fictional Being.  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
windshear
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:43 pm

A quick question... Does Allah have a name? Or is Rahman just something else?

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
qr332
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 14):
A quick question... Does Allah have a name? Or is Rahman just something else?

Allah means God, but Allah in Islam has 99 names. Al Rahman is one of them, it means the merciful.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:17 pm

No. Not me. Never!

I will never surrender to that archaic religion called Islam.
Never will, at any level, by any means, surrender to any religion.

Sheiks and imams go home!

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Thread starter):
"A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding, stoking an already heated debate on religious tolerance in a country with one million Muslims"

...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

...
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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bwest
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relatio

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:41 pm

Normally you would say: what has he been smoking... but being Dutch, I suppose that question is answered already  Wink

What if we would just all start to call this fairy tale by its real name: "biggest mass-delusion ever"



(and for all those who will now flame me: if there's a god (IF!), I'm sure he's/she/it will punish me for this blasphemy once time is due, he sure doesn't need some humans to do so...)
 
qr332
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
I will never surrender to that archaic religion called Islam.

Wow... talk about being self centered. Nobody's trying to convert your attention seeking ass to Islam, nor is anyone asking you to "surrender", so spare us the drama.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
Sheiks and imams go home!

Make sure you send home all the priests and rabbis at the same time then.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
windshear
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Allah means God, but Allah in Islam has 99 names. Al Rahman is one of them, it means the merciful.

Ok thought it was something like that... Thanks for the confirmation.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
frequentflyer
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:20 pm

How about we keep calling our God by its own local name and entice people with other religions to open their spirit to the World a bit and learn how we call him? It should go both ways.

To each their own (Language)
Take off and live
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 12):
I do?

do you ?  Wink  Silly
-
 
bravo45
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Al Rahman is one of them, it means the merciful.

Please correct me on this I think your language is Arabic, I thought Raheem meant merciful.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 18):
so spare us the drama.

 checkmark 

[Edited 2007-08-16 18:15:36]
 
windshear
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 20):
How about we keep calling our God by its own local name

 checkmark 

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 22):
Please correct me on this I think your language is Arabic, I thought Raheem meant merciful

I know the sentence: "Bismillah ar-rahman ar-rahim" So the name of the merciful is Rahim no?

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
bravo45
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
So the name of the merciful is Rahim no?

I thought so, but Arabic is not my language so I am waiting for QR332's reply myself or someone who knows Arabic. But you get the idea, God has many names, they are mainly attributes associated with Him, the word Allah is simply translated God, that's my understanding.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
merciful is Rahim

-
no, al-RAHEEM means the Compassionate
-
just as it is in "bi ussum Allah al-Rahman al-Raheem bi al youm al Kadem"
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 23):
I know the sentence: "Bismillah ar-rahman ar-rahim" So the name of the merciful is Rahim no?

That translates to "In the Name Of Allah, the most Beneficent and Merciful".
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andessmf
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Allah is the Arabic word for what in English is "God",

They are all the same God! The name changes, but that is it.

It goes like this: (feel free to correct my omissions)

Judaism is the Old Testament plus other writings
Christianity is the Old and New Testament
Islam follows both

In Islam, Jesus is held in the same regard as Mohammed, that is, he is a prophet. Mohammed is the last prophet. Islam treats the Virgin Mary with higher regard than Christianity.

Obviously, the explanation is very simplified.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
I will never surrender to that archaic religion called Islam.

I didn't notice anyone asking you to convert. Settle down.

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Yahweh is the Hebrew word, if I'm not mistaken.

It's the same God, by the way. All three religions have the same roots. So no one is asking you to surrender, but I will continue to call the Almighty "God".
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:22 am

With due respect to Bishop Muskind, and with apologies to Rummy, that idea sounds like "old Europe" to me.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

I got some reality for you...if you want to see the world "as one", you need to kill humanity. Getting rid of nations and religion won't do it. Only a fool believes it would.

But whatever it takes to sell albums.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
pelican
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 29):
With due respect to Bishop Muskind, and with apologies to Rummy, that idea sounds like "old Europe" to me.

Must be you. It just sounds stupid...

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 27):
Judaism is the Old Testament plus other writings
Christianity is the Old and New Testament
Islam follows both

What about the Koran? One think is for sure the Islam definately doesn't follow the New Testament.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 27):
In Islam, Jesus is held in the same regard as Mohammed, that is, he is a prophet. Mohammed is the last prophet.

Here lies a big difference. Christians regard Jesus as the saviour who has risen from death and not a mere prophet. Muslims don't belief in resurrection, hence they can't follow the new testament.

pelican
 
bravo45
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relatio

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 31):
Muslims don't belief in resurrection,

True, but that is because we Muslims don't believe Jesus was even crucified, although we do believe in his return.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 31):
Islam definately doesn't follow the New Testament.

Not entirely, but there is stuff common in both.
 
ShakeZulaNJ
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:33 am

Ummm.... no? What would Vishnu, Shiva, and Bhrama say?  Sad
It's not bird strike, it's engine suck...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 31):
What about the Koran? One think is for sure the Islam definately doesn't follow the New Testament.

the Koran integrates many parts of the New Testament, and most parts of the Old Testament
-

Quoting Pelican (Reply 31):
Christians regard Jesus as the saviour who has risen from death and not a mere prophet. Muslims don't belief in resurrection, hence they can't follow the new testament.

In Islam, the New Testament is regarded as "crooked" and so, much of the Koran is in Muslim view a kind of "cleaned" New Testament. The "Son-of-God/Saviour/Resurrection" concept is regarded as a kind of post-mortem-over-glorification.
-
 
777236ER
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:13 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):
but I will continue to call the Almighty "God".

Thank you.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
pelican
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relatio

Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 34):
The "Son-of-God/Saviour/Resurrection" concept is regarded as a kind of post-mortem-over-glorification.
-

The "Son-of-God/Saviour/Resurrection concept" is the very core of the New Testament and of Christianity. Therefore Islam does not follow the New Testament.

pelican
 
FOMEA
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God �Allah� To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 27):
Islam treats the Virgin Mary with higher regard than Christianity.

Actually, The Virgin Mary is the only female mentioned in the Qurran. Also, if i recall one of the verses in the Qurran is called Mariam (Mary).




Regards
F-OMEA
On the internet you can be anything you want..its strange so many choose to be Stupid.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 36):
The "Son-of-God/Saviour/Resurrection concept" is the very core of the New Testament and of Christianity. Therefore Islam does not follow the New Testament.

If Islam WOULD follow the New Testament in regard to this concept, it would not be a separate religion
-
 
pelican
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 38):
If Islam WOULD follow the New Testament in regard to this concept, it would not be a separate religion

Indeed.

pelican
 
lehpron
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:34 pm

What we need is some alien race with enough authority to shake us around real good, and tell us that we are all immature little children fighting over a Rubik's cube claiming the whole cube is the same color as the one side we see.

I am getting tiresome of this religious fightcrap, no one is ever going to convince me that God will actually pin all of his creations against each other! Do parents pin their children against each other telling each one they like them the best? So illogical and cruel.

It is a HUMAN trait to vie for attention, we know we are mortal and we have made the idiot claim, "our religion is better" -- or our country, or culture, or whatever. No one [religion] is better or worse, that we have to think this way in order to reference others is very humanistic. Everything is with respect to us, we are like teenagers without parents.

God (or some kind of spiritual entity) existed before we created religion to understand him (or her, it, they, us); but somewhere along the way, we humans distorted his message to further ourselves against our own neighbors. Why? We're selfish, we want to be the only child, the precious. When people are better off, others get the impression God favored them, when God has nothing to do with it. This is why we hate each other, we are envious of some idea we created in your minds about 'the other guy'. We are human, this whole shit is our fault, not God's.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
gkirk
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:39 pm

You just gotta love religion, don't you?  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
andessmf
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RE: Dutch Bishop: Call God ‘Allah’ To Ease Relations

Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 41):
You just gotta love religion, don't you?

And if it wasn't religion, it would be politics.

Just kinda funny when a person derides religion, but at the same time follows their political beliefs and leaning with the same faith and fervor of any religion.

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