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David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 31):
Quoting ArniePie (Reply 29):
Abolishing income taxes all together and get government money from solely a national sales tax (VAT if I understand you clearly?) is a much more controversial idea IMHO.

Seems to work ok in the UK. They do have an income tax though right? (I honestly don't recall right now.)

 confused  Yes we have income tax in the UK. We pay 22% on income up to just over £34,000 and 40% on income above that. Our first £5000 or so is tax-free.
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 49):

Thanks for the explanation. Could have possibly been what the Cleveland Plain Dealer was talking about, though I do admit that they can be a screwy newspaper at times.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4):
Get the duct tape out. Falcons head is about to explode

After seeing his response, I think he might have gotten winged.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 5):
Don't hear too much about the deficit now from the liberal media. The lib media made the deficit front page news when "it was reported/speculated the deficit may hit 400 billion. But very little is said now, now that reporting it would be a positive for Bush!

Pricks!

Yup, it is that double standard that the media doesn't see.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 12):
really bothers me, since after 2 years of economics, I learned that Reaganomics, aka Supply-Side Economics (or Trickle-Down economics), don't work.

Fire your professor, he has no clue what the hell he is talking about.

Can I recommend a PBS series that I think was titled, "The Commanding Heights"

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 49):
These trust funds are legal entities which pay taxes on the money they earn. However the payment to the individuals can be tax free, because it is POST-TAX money.

i.e. The trust fund is 100 million dollars.
It made 4.5 million dollars last year.
It paid 1.665 million dollars in taxes.
Of the remaining 2,835,000 dollars - 835,000 is retained in the fund.
2,000,000 is paid out to the beneficiary of the fund.

So it is reported that the person "made" 2 million dollars tax free. That is incorrect because taxes were paid on the 2 million dollars - just not by the individual.

Thank you, it is amazing how many Americans don't have the background to do this simple math.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
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RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 46):
When a minority of the population is taking that much of the wealth while more and more people find themselves struggling to get by, something is wrong.

Taking? I'd love to hear the explanation of that. If someone puts their money to work and makes more money with it, how is that taking? If someone takes their money and invests it in a business that has a good plan and is in demand which in turn generates a profit, how is that taking?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 46):
So yes, you're more or less on the ball there. I believe there is a more equitable way to distribute wealth and resources. I'd like everyone to have everything they need, how awful.

If money were a fixed commodity then you might have a point. But the economy is not a fixed pie with only so many slices to go around. Consequently, why would anyone break their back or struggle to come up with a new and more cost saving idea or tool if they knew that their hard work would not be consummately rewarded?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3684
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 53):
Taking? I'd love to hear the explanation of that. If someone puts their money to work and makes more money with it, how is that taking? If someone takes their money and invests it in a business that has a good plan and is in demand which in turn generates a profit, how is that taking?

I wasn't inferring that wealth was being stolen (at least in the most basic sense of the word), but rather that in the capitalist system, unlimited economic growth and thus, unlimited accumulation of wealth is encouraged. In a world with finite resources, this is an unsustainable system that is inevitably going to result in a minority controlling more wealth than they could possibly ever need while others get left in a struggle for subsistence. If you look around the world today, I think you'll find it hard to debate that this is exactly what's happened.

Nobody needs millions or billions of dollars worth of wealth, there's plenty here for all of us. Capitalism is a system that rewards mankind's most selfish and predatory motivations, and while there are many of you who are probably content to believe that there is no alternative (Margaret Thatcher, are you reading this?), some of us believe there are more humane and democratic ways to distribute the world's wealth.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 53):
If money were a fixed commodity then you might have a point. But the economy is not a fixed pie with only so many slices to go around.

As I've said, finite resources. The economy can't grow forever (unless you've found some new planet I don't know about). Look at the ongoing dash for arctic oil...the world powers are desperate to sustain the system as we know it today despite the potential consequences.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 53):
Consequently, why would anyone break their back or struggle to come up with a new and more cost saving idea or tool if they knew that their hard work would not be consummately rewarded?

Keep in mind that "cost saving ideas" often involve other people losing their jobs...who do you think those savings go to? Exactly what I'm getting at; the system rewards self-motivation and aggression.

As for why you would struggle to come up with new ideas if you weren't going to be rewarded with an absurd amount of wealth, Michael Albert's writings on Participatory Economics (ParEcon) might be of interest to you.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
In a world with finite resources, this is an unsustainable system that is inevitably going to result in a minority controlling more wealth than they could possibly ever need while others get left in a struggle for subsistence

But money is not finite.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/25/pf/record_millionaires/

If we live in a finite economy, then there must have been a lot more people that descended into poverty and that just simply is not true.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty05/pov05hi.html

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
Nobody needs millions or billions of dollars worth of wealth, there's plenty here for all of us.

But if they have the ability to achieve it, who is to say that they shouldn't?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
The economy can't grow forever

Perhaps you should take a look at just the past few years, or decades for that matter. The economy keeps growing, there are down turns but no matter where you look, the stock market, real estate, GDP, it is all growing over time.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
Look at the ongoing dash for arctic oil...the world powers are desperate to sustain the system as we know it today despite the potential consequences.

And when oil gets expensive enough, the person with the brains to build an engine that can run as efficiently on an alternate power system, and the people who are smart enough to invest in producing that system, will make billions. And what is wrong with that? They put their money where their vision was and it should pay off.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
Keep in mind that "cost saving ideas" often involve other people losing their jobs...

Or not. How many jobs has the home computer cost versus produced as just one example?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
Michael Albert's writings on Participatory Economics (ParEcon) might be of interest to you.

The Soviet Union is a fine enough example.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 55):
Perhaps you should take a look at just the past few years, or decades for that matter. The economy keeps growing, there are down turns but no matter where you look, the stock market, real estate, GDP, it is all growing over time.

The earth is finite, ergo any economies limited to the earth must also be finite. They may get very big, but at the end of the day there are finite supplies of resources. Of course, reasonable people can disagree on when "at the end of the day" will actually matter.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 52):
Quoting N231YE (Reply 12):
really bothers me, since after 2 years of economics, I learned that Reaganomics, aka Supply-Side Economics (or Trickle-Down economics), don't work.

Fire your professor, he has no clue what the hell he is talking about.

L-188,
What do you expect from a liberal professor!  sarcastic  According to them, Reagan & all conservatives are stupid, even when the proof is undeniable, contrary to what they believe/preach. Their assumptions are completely unfounded! Yet, they make 6 figures to spread this propaganda!



 mad 
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 54):
Capitalism is a system that rewards mankind's most selfish and predatory motivations,

That's total BS!  redflag 

America gives more to the world in total than any other nation or combination of nations. Gunsontheroof, you're being nothing but one dimentional here. With a weaker economy, the US, as well as it citizens will have less to give! I worked over 13 hours yesterday at my 2nd job, do you think my buddy Joe, who's a lazy ass, should be rewarded for sitting on his duff and get any of my hard earned money? No way!

http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication_details&id=3712

Press Release: U.S. Private International Giving to Developing World Exceeds $62 Billion

Nor does the OECD fully measure count U.S. military contributions to peacekeeping and security, U.S. private industry investments that generate the bulk of research and development for better food and medicines, or preferential trade agreements that support imports from developing countries. The measure also excludes the $1.5 billion in foreign aid that the U.S. provides to Israel, Central and Eastern Europe, and Russia since these countries exceed the OECD poverty criterion.

http://www.hungercenter.org/CHC/news19.htm

US Donates 80% Of Food Aid For Darfur

May 2006

Panelists stressed the importance of the relationship between the United States and the World Food Program. The United States is the largest donor to the World Food Program in general, and also to Sudan, specifically. Last year, the US was responsible for 80% of the food aid for Darfur. While donations are far below the WFP request, the US has funded 27% of the appeal, which is 85% of the donations up to this date. Moreover, the President announced on May 8th that the US will provide $225 million in emergency supplemental funding as additional food assistance to Darfur. The supplies from that emergency supplemental request will most likely not reach Darfur before November, however. In the meantime, the US is redirecting approximately 50,000 metric tons of food aid that will arrive to the region from May through September.


http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=730652005

US donations to Africa outstrip Europe by 15 to 1
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
And if he soaked the rich, then that's wrong. No one should get "soaked" by taxes. Not the rich, not the poor, not the middle. No one.

Really Flaming Falcon84  flamed  ,
Just the other day you went on another one of your anti-Bush/conservative tyraids over how Carl Rove made the rich, richer. Well now, I think owe you Karl Rove an apology , since your false accusation have been debunked!

 tongue 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 33):
Yes, Karl. Grateful that you've helped make the rich richer;

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting OU812 (Reply 5):
From the article:
The deficit this fiscal year is expected to be $158 billion, a meager 1.2% of GDP. Since the Bush tax cuts of 2003, the budget deficit has fallen by $217 billion mostly because of a continuing torrid pace of revenue growth

Falcon84,
Is that a good thing, the deficit coming down to levels being of little or no concern?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting OU812 (Reply 59):
Is that a good thing, the deficit coming down to levels being of little or no concern?

We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.

We had 911 in 2001 & a republican congress post 94'! Since the 2003 Bush tax cuts, the US as well as the world has been bombing!

Nice try. I mean, nice partisan try! eyebrow 


 dopey 
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 61):
We had 911 in 2001 & a republican congress post 94'! Since the 2003 Bush tax cuts, the US as well as the world has been bombing!

Nice try. I mean, nice partisan try!

Not being partisan at all. Just pointing out fact. And 9/11 can't absolve all of it. You know that. So do I.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
co7772wuh
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:13 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.

@ Falcon84

This is the issue I with people such as yourself. You people blamed GW for the economy after sep 11th, when it should have been obvious to all how damaging the attacks were to the US and world economies. GW was not to blame. Millions of jobs were lost within months after the attacks, the world airline industry was crippled. GW responded with a pro-grow economic policy to counter the effects of 911. All that people like you Falcon84 could do was attack GW with unsubstantiated partisan statements, like for example:

Quoting OU812 (Reply 59):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 33):
Yes, Karl. Grateful that you've helped make the rich richer;

All the while not allowing yourself to register the true facts and give credit where credit is due. Even when the evidence is undeniable.

You're a hack! Enough said!
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.

We had a projected surplus. We will never have an actual surplus until two things happen that never will. First, FICA taxes are taken out of the general spending pool and put back in their own special budget column as well as all the money the Feds have "borrowed" over the years has been paid back. Second, the national debt stands at "zero" and before you say it, even if the war on terror and irresponsible spending on behalf of the President and the former and present Congress have caused half of the debt, the other half is the responsibility of Presidents and Congresses going back to LBJ. So it is a shared responsibility of many politicians. As to the surplus, we never should have a "surplus" tax revenue at any level of government. Once the bills are paid any remaining revenue left over should be applied to the next years budget and income and property taxes adjusted accordingly.

What we had in the late '90s was a balanced budget, after the Republicans took control in '94 and started forcing some much needed changes which they then promptly got away from for stupid reasons that they needed to pay for themselves.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 56):
The earth is finite, ergo any economies limited to the earth must also be finite. They may get very big, but at the end of the day there are finite supplies of resources. Of course, reasonable people can disagree on when "at the end of the day" will actually matter.

Yes but the limits are very high. The #1 valuable thing you can have is human resources. Humans who know how to bank, set up engineering firms, consulting firms, design drugs, manufacture things, take care of sick people. Some of the richest countries in the world are relatively low impact environmentally.

Japan is by and large a sustainable developed country. Their electricity is mainly nuclear. They can go for 1,000 years as long as they quit fishing the seas extinct of fish, so much.

About taxes, Bush has shown that Reaganomics works in the limited case. However the tax cuts are excessively lenient on the super wealthy. Yes, their capital should be quite free to move about, and not become stale. The 2003 tax cuts made sure that previously "stuck" capital was not free at only 15% capital gains tax. This was fine.

But the tax structure is still too friendly to the super-rich. They only pay 15% taxes while the upper middle class gets hosed at around 30-40% tax, in some cases over 40% if you include payroll, income, social security, property taxes. And, the super-rich can deduct the interest on their $12 million home from their taxes, which is stupid. Deductions should have limits. The rich should not be paying below 20% taxes on their income. This alone would be a massive shift, totally curing all government money shortages. Would they leave America? Some would. That is a serious problem. But for me to pay higher tax rates than Warren Buffet, I don't see the logic. Neither does he. Warren Buffet is known to support higher taxes on the super-wealthy, which here I am defining as the 50 million - 50 billion $ net worth club.

The tax cut on the rich was not entirely bad. But it needs to be made more reasonable with some cleanup measures to restore a bit of their tax burden.

Finally, as a side note I don't want to hear about American families who make $50,000 a year and are burdened with taxes. American families at $50k and below really do not pay jack squat for taxes. It's only when you get to $75-200k that your taxes start climbing above 10% of your gross. The middle class has a great deal in America today, just like the rich.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said

It never existed. The "Surplus" was just a numbers game played by the White House at the time. As RJdxer points out it was only a "Projected" one that was based on some economic trends that where not-sustanable, The tech bubble being one of the most obvious ones.

Quoting CO7772WUH (Reply 63):
You people blamed GW for the economy after sep 11th, when it should have been obvious to all how damaging the attacks were to the US and world economies. GW was not to blame. Millions of jobs were lost within months after the attacks, the world airline industry was crippled. GW responded with a pro-grow economic policy to counter the effects of 911.

I know, I can only time will give GW the credit he deserves. Not only did we get a hit from 9/11 but the Tech bubble had burst by the time he took office and then we had the Enron and accounting scandals for tax years prior to 2000.

He in fact steered us through a situation that could have been a hell of a lot worse economicly.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:03 am

I didn't read the whole thread, but one point that doesn't look like it's prominently featured is that this can be explained by taking into account that the taxable incomes of the top 1% have soared, which means that a lot of taxes are collected even though the tax rates may be lower. Of course, if the taxrate was higher even more taxes would be collected.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 5):

Don't hear too much about the deficit now from the liberal media. The lib media made the deficit front page news when "it was reported/speculated the deficit may hit 400 billion. But very little is said now, now that reporting it would be a positive for Bush!

What isn't said much either is that without the Bush tax cuts, the US federal budget would likely be in surplus, albeit temporarily.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 67):
I didn't read the whole thread, but one point that doesn't look like it's prominently featured is that this can be explained by taking into account that the taxable incomes of the top 1% have soared,

This is correct, but the 2 facts are related. When Bush cut the capital gains tax to 15%, that caused the superwealthy to suddenly unfreeze a lot of their wealth which was sitting in stocks and bonds that had gained value. This resulted in a wash of higher "income" over the subsequent period as they cashed in those gains at the 15% tax rate, which is rather friendly to them.

This was not just temporary. The stock market was arguably revitalized by this tax change, causing yet more gains for people with invested wealth. Going forward, people are more willing to accept "income" from investments and stock options thanks to this tax treatment, so these higher incomes should continue. If cap gains rates hit 30% again, I would expect top 1% incomes to "fall" since, in large part, their income is discretionary. Tax shelters also become a good option when Uncle Sam starts increasing rates on you.

The Bush measure has been successful. The top 1% are doing extremely well here in the USA. They also hold a lot of political power, of course, so the 15% cap rate (which is everything to the wealthy) may continue. Currently it is set to expire. THe middle class also holds a lot of political power, which explains why middle class families pay little or nothing in taxes. The only group to pay substantial tax rates right now are those with high salary income -- basketball players, lawyers, doctors, and so on. They pay 40%, the billionaires pay 15%, the middle class and the poor pay from -10% to 10%. That's the approximate situation today.
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 67):
I didn't read the whole thread, but one point that doesn't look like it's prominently featured is that this can be explained by taking into account that the taxable incomes of the top 1% have soared, which means that a lot of taxes are collected even though the tax rates may be lower. Of course, if the taxrate was higher even more taxes would be collected.



I don't necessarily agree with this. As Flighty pointed out, raising the capital gains tax or taxes in general probably would stall or slow an economy if done too heavily. A good example of high taxes is the EU & nations like Germany & France, which has chronic high unemployment & Germany may now even have a higher deficit to that of the US. So it's not that easy Joni, if it were, [Germany & France] would be rolling in the dough. Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying their economies are in the toilet, they're not! EU citizens get free health care. I'm simply saying there's a price to pay for higher taxes. Higher taxes could be counterproductive & lead to higher unemployment! It's all relative.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 67):
What isn't said much either is that without the Bush tax cuts, the US federal budget would likely be in surplus, albeit temporarily.

That would be assuming that the recession had not continued which is highly doubtful since it was the tax cuts that freed up the capital that helped to end the recession.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:02 am

Im gonna get flamed for this but...

If you are too stupid to get off your lazy butt and make yourself rich (wow, I did it, my dad's a minister), then shut your mouths. You're too stupid to know about taxes. Im 22 and in the top 5% of the US income. Guess what, I didnt get here by sitting on the airliners.net forum worrying about liberal vs conservative, or airbus vs boeing debates. I put my brain and brawn to work and started pushing forward. Get off yoru butts and find out how to make the tax system work FOR you.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 70):

That would be assuming that the recession had not continued which is highly doubtful since it was the tax cuts that freed up the capital that helped to end the recession.

The ending of the recession was likely largely cyclical and would have taken place, tax cuts or no. Further, the US fed rate was at 1%, which makes capital very easy to come by.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 69):
A good example of high taxes is the EU & nations like Germany & France

It is indeed (or rather, are). If Germany dramatically lowered the capital-gains tax, rich Germans would snap up a lot of shares and bonds, whereas the federal government would plunge deeper into debt.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 68):
This is correct, but the 2 facts are related. When Bush cut the capital gains tax to 15%, that caused the superwealthy to suddenly unfreeze a lot of their wealth

This unfreezing is a one-off event. Later in your post you write IMO correctly that a lower tax rate "arguably" vitalizes the stock market, which may not be a good thing. A higher tax rate encourages people to invest longer-term in shares (e.g. "invest") and not buy and sell continuously ("gamble"), which leads to bubbles. Lowering the taxrate on capital gains doesn't make the companies' underlying performance more dynamic, or make their productivity grow faster - therefore it doesn't increase share prices in the long term.

And of course, the main point is that the top-1% in the US has seen it's income increase rapidly for a long time now, so this "unfreezing" is a relatively minor effect. If the tax rates hadn't been lowered, the capital gains of the top-1% would still have grown at a fast rate as part of the global polarization of income that's now ongoing.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 72):
The ending of the recession was likely largely cyclical and would have taken place, tax cuts or no.

True but how long the recession would have lasted is what is at question. I still maintain that the tax cuts, which went to every level, not just the extremely rich, helped fuel the recovery.

Quoting Joni (Reply 72):
Further, the US fed rate was at 1%, which makes capital very easy to come by.

But the capital that helped to shorten that recession was provided by the tax cuts and the money that individuals, not necessarily rich, spent on bigger ticket items that they may not have if the tax cut had not been there. There were many factors involved in the recovery but to dismiss the tax cuts as not having any effect at all is just wrong.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 73):
True but how long the recession would have lasted is what is at question. I still maintain that the tax cuts, which went to every level, not just the extremely rich, helped fuel the recovery.

Of course it did--but the Fed rate at 1% had a lot to do with it too. The fact is that our economy is by far the most stable in the world, compared to many other countries' stagnant and repressive tax regimes. For those of you who simply say "close the loopholes" good luck--the Tax Reform Act of 1986 went a long way to closing a lot of the loopholes, but if you think it is as easy as that, you obviously don't have a clue about the US Tax Code. Lawyers and tax specialists are almost always 1 step ahead of Congress when it comes to developing and creating tax shelters, and the people that write the Code don't have a clue in general about what they're doing, and often draft legislation that is poorly worded and unclear.
 
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CALTECH
Posts: 3478
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.

Republican congress and senate for a few of those years. Nuff said.
You are here.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich

Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 75):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 60):
We had a surplis in the 90's. Enough said.

Republican congress and senate for a few of those years. Nuff said.

And it was a projected surplus, not a real one.

Based on some economic assuptions of that were not sustainable.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos