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Falcon84
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Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:34 am

A year later, and now this article.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/24/hamas.soldier/index.html

Question: WHY is this soldier still being held? Can anyone give a reasonable explaination for that? Because I don't see one.

This soldier needs to sent home. There's no reason for his continued captivity.
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LAXspotter
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:43 am

They want to exchange some prisoners with them.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
avi
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Question: WHY is this soldier still being held? Can anyone give a reasonable explaination for that? Because I don't see one.

It is simple.
Hamas are using him as "a body guard". They know that as long as they hold him, Israel won't do anything to the leaders of Hamas in general and in the Gaza Strip in particular.
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AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:00 am

Thanks for reminding on this Falcon,

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Question: WHY is this soldier still being held? Can anyone give a reasonable explaination for that? Because I don't see one.

Their is only one answer... They are terrorists ,,, and terrorists terrorize and terrorists do stuff like this and frankly get away with it. Why should they stop doing it ,, it works ! Israel is hamstrung and powerless to do what it needs to do to finish the job so Hammas laughs at them. The west and the press spin everything the Israelis do as sinister and agressive , Hammas , Hez,IJ, just poke and prod enough to make life miserable.
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LAXspotter
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 3):
They are terrorists ,,, and terrorists terrorize and terrorists do stuff like this and frankly get away with it. Why should they stop doing it

This is a soldier we're talking about not a child, he joined the IDF, and he has pained a fine, he is a POW, nothing else.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 4):
This is a soldier we're talking about not a child, he joined the IDF, and he has pained a fine, he is a POW, nothing else.

Uh, there's no fighting go on, is there? There wasn't when he was captured. I'm sure if it were a Palestinian, you'd be one of those screaming bloody murder.

No reason to hold him, except as AGM said-they're terrorists, and that's what they do.
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 4):
nothing else.

Should there be anything else? I mean, isn't that enough?  Confused

He must be sent free. But he won't, we all know that. Eventually I believe he will be released by the IDF, and then we will be hearing a lot more about the "poor terrorists" that kept him captive. They had no other choice...  Yeah sure

Alex
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AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 4):
This is a soldier we're talking about not a child, he joined the IDF, and he has pained a fine, he is a POW, nothing else.

HAMAS IS NOT A COUNTRY ! HAMAS is a terrorist group more like a street gang in my opinion... period . If he was captured by say Lebanese Army then that would be different I guess.

Stop giving Hamas credibility by letting them terrorize a sovereign state and act as if they are commissioned by some government. I dont care what side of the Israel Palestine argument you are on ... Hamas Hezbollah fly in the face of rule of law and traditional governance. If you want to defend that then go ahead ,, I am waiting.

Dont forget we still have guys missing in Iraq as well, taken by some band of terrorist ,,, or is that "freedom fighter"


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Mir
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 3):
terrorists do stuff like this

Terrorism must involve civilians in order to be terrorism. Holding a uniformed soldier hostage is not a terrorist act.

Not that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization, since they do carry out many attack against civilians, but in a war between Israel and Hamas (which is pretty much what exists), holding a soldier hostage is legitimate. I wish Hamas would go after the Israeli army and stop going after civilians. Not that I'm holding my breath for it though.

-Mir
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I wish Hamas would go after the Israeli army and stop going after civilians

In this ideal scenario, would the IDF be "allowed" to then react accordingly? Or it would be again a one-sided war, in which one of the contenders is a "civilian murderer" when defending itself?

Please, do not hold your breath, really. Or have someone ready for some CPR...  Wink

Alex
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Mir
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 9):
In this ideal scenario, would the IDF be "allowed" to then react accordingly?

Of course. And they'd kick Hamas' ass, likely before Hamas gets a chance to do any damage. Which is why Hamas won't do it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Terrorism must involve civilians in order to be terrorism

Well Hamas does this as well, but to the IDF Hamas is a terrorist entity not a state controlled force.

can you imagine a world where every state has its own little proxy army that they use and then disavow responsibility ? That is why Hamas is dangerous , they are setting a very bad precedence by acting on behalf of a state but not governed by any law . They are a terror gang , no better than MS13 or whatever.
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sw733
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Of course. And they'd kick Hamas' ass, likely before Hamas gets a chance to do any damage. Which is why Hamas won't do it.

Ah yes, you mean like last year, when the IDF did more damage to Lebanese civilians than to the enemy?
 
jutes85
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 12):
Ah yes, you mean like last year, when the IDF did more damage to Lebanese civilians than to the enemy?

How can you tell who is a civilian or not when the enemy doesn't wear a uniform.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 12):

Indeed the execution of the conflict with Hamas was poor to say the least by the IDF with countless Lebanese civilians being killed or injured, but it didn't help that Hamas hid behind them either....

Dave
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sw733
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 13):
How can you tell who is a civilian or not when the enemy doesn't wear a uniform.

It is indeed very tough. I just think things could have been done in a better fashion than just bombing the hell out of a clearly civilian neighborhood. Of course, hindsight is 20/20

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 14):
Indeed the execution of the conflict with Hamas was poor to say the least by the IDF with countless Lebanese civilians being killed or injured, but it didn't help that Hamas hid behind them either....

It was Hezbollah, not Hamas. And of course, it was disgusting that Hezbollah hid behind civilians. But that doesn't change the fact that it was a slaughter of innocent Lebanese.

Trust me, I lived in Namibia during the days of fighting in the region. Innocent people get killed....unfortunately, it almost always happens. However, it is my personal opinion that Israel just didn't give too much of a damn about the Lebanese people in this one.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 15):
And of course, it was disgusting that Hezbollah hid behind civilians. But that doesn't change the fact that it was a slaughter of innocent Lebanese.

Then blame Hamas for that. They're cowards as well as thugs. If I'm fighting an enemy that hitting my people, and they hide behind civilian shields, my duty is to MY people, not those civilians who are among the terrorists. I'm going to go after the terrorsts, to protect MY people from being victims. And if the civilians don't have the sense to leave when they see those hiding among them mounting rocket launchers on their buildings, that's too bad.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
WHY is this soldier still being held ?

-
Because, as in the article, Hamas wants the release of prisoners :
----------------------
Meshaal said Hamas has put forward a list of 350 Palestinians they want released from Israeli jails, but he blamed Israel for the breakdown of talks.

An Israeli envoy traveled to Egypt last month with a list of Hamas prisoners the Israelis would be willing to release, an Egyptian official said. While Israel has given up Palestinian prisoners in the past, Israel has also said it will not release certain prisoners accused of having carried out terrorist attacks.
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
As Israel defines "terrorist attacks" rather widely, there may be some problems to unify the two lists
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
HAMAS is a terrorist group more like a street gang in my opinion

your opinion is correct, as Hamas in spite of being in "government" in the Gaza Territory has the methods and the mentality of a street-gang. BUT, as in case of all kidnappings, to get a hostage free is a very difficult job. I am quite sure that the Israeli, had they precise knowledge about his whereabouts, would free him rather swiftly.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
we still have guys missing in Iraq as well, taken by some band of terrorist ,,, or is that "freedom fighter"

the neutral simple term is "rebels"
-

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
And if the civilians don't have the sense to leave when they see those hiding among them mounting rocket launchers on their buildings, that's too bad.

-
of course. And when they "leave" you pay them a hotel-room plus a monthly salary, sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
-
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):

of course. And when they "leave" you pay them a hotel-room plus a monthly salary, sure

Its not his fault ME AVN, Falcon probably thinks about war like a hollywood movie.
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Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 18):
Its not his fault ME AVN, Falcon probably thinks about war like a hollywood movie.

I think you have me confused with President Bush. Sorry.

But if civilians are in a combat zone, they take combatants chances.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
But if civilians are in a combat zone, they take combatants chances.

-
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians
- they, as anybody, will not readily give up lodgings, jobs, schools for children, etc
- and it is not "chances" but RISKS
-
 
AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:40 am

The dark view of the future is the outline laid out before us by these terror organizations. Whatever country you live in their is most likely some group who pays claim to the land you live on. These proxy armies only need another state who hates your country to begin funding them or promoting them in some vague way.

I see this as the future we face in the US, How long will it be till Venezuela / Iran lets say, starts funding MS13 (example),to begin its freedom fight against the US. With all the cash flowing from the drug trade their would be plenty of grease for the wheels.

Frankly I can not believe that it has not already happened. With the number of immigrants we have inside , they have a army already in place. This is not paranoia , but actually is pretty much a real concern of US citizens and should be for citizens in all countries. Being here on a border town , we are already beginning to see the enclaves of immigrants who do not really want to assimilate. They want the benefits without having to play by the rules. With the right motivation could a outside influence convince them to rise up and take whats really theirs ? Guess we will have to wait and see, But Hezbollah and Hamas have drawn the blue print for them.
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TheCol
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
holding a soldier hostage is legitimate.

Yeah, I'm sure Hamas is all about following the Geneva Accords.  Yeah sure

Quoting SW733 (Reply 12):

Ah yes, you mean like last year, when the IDF did more damage to Lebanese civilians than to the enemy?

Why is that even an issue in this thread?
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sw733
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 22):
Why is that even an issue in this thread?

It became an issue because someone writing on this thread, Mir, brought up that the IDF can take out a terrorist organization before that organization can even blink...and I was saying that that wasn't true based on events of the recent past.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 4):
This is a soldier we're talking about not a child, he joined the IDF, and he has pained a fine, he is a POW, nothing else.

Hamas is not a legitimate military. The soldier is a hostage being held by a terrorist organization.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
Because, as in the article, Hamas wants the release of prisoners :
----------------------
Meshaal said Hamas has put forward a list of 350 Palestinians they want released from Israeli jails, but he blamed Israel for the breakdown of talks.

Israel on Friday released more than 250 Palestinian prisoners in an effort to bolster support for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12120319

So why does Hamas want those specific 350 hostages released? Are some of them involved in the Hamas organization? I would assume so.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians

Civilians are always casualties of war. No "clean" war has ever been fought, and neither side in this conflict could do anything to change that.
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Falcon84
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians
- they, as anybody, will not readily give up lodgings, jobs, schools for children, etc
- and it is not "chances" but RISKS

Risks, chances, whatever. They take the RISK of being injuried or killed, when your buddies Hamas park rocket launchers in the area, knowing Israel will respond to weapons being fired at THEIR civilians (which I notice you don't even acknowledge), and knowing full well that Hamas WANTS Arab casualties, so they-and you-can bitch at Israel.

They can stay, and take those risks, or move away and stay alive. It's their call.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24):
So why does Hamas want those specific 350 hostages released? Are some of them involved in the Hamas organization? I would assume so.

to all probability YES. And this is the problem, as I am quite certain that the Israeli list contains NON-Hamas people but EXcludes many people Hamas regards as important.
-

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians

Civilians are always casualties of war. No "clean" war has ever been fought, and neither side in this conflict could do anything to change that.

-
THIS however most unfortunately is true. But again, civilians in reality canNOT simply "get out" as they if doing so lose home, job, belongings, the schools of the children, everything. And so of course try to muddle through at almost any price.
-

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Risks, chances, whatever. They take the RISK of being injuried or killed, when your buddies Hamas park rocket launchers in the area, knowing Israel will respond to weapons being fired at THEIR civilians (which I notice you don't even acknowledge), and knowing full well that Hamas WANTS Arab casualties, so they-and you-can bitch at Israel.

They can stay, and take those risks, or move away and stay alive. It's their call.

No, it is NOT "their call". They canNOT move away, as you need money to stay alive. And if moving away you give up everything. The idea is to persevere. Your calculation btw. is completely WRONG, as most of the civilians DID stay alive. And many people who in panic fled northwards were hit by Israeli attacks farther north. And sorry, you above mention Hamas, but we spoke about Lebanon and in Lebanon it is Hizbullah, which is a totally different organisation. Hizbullah in fact did NOT expect an Israeli attack on the scale it happened. They DID expect some minor attack in the border region. What Hamas and Hizbullah HAVE in common is that both had the practice to shoot at Israeli villages and towns in order to provoke the Israelis.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:16 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
being fired at THEIR civilians (which I notice you don't even acknowledge

is it necessary to "acknowledge" what has been extensively and almost daily in the news ?  Yeah sure
 
flyingbabydoc
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians
- they, as anybody, will not readily give up lodgings, jobs, schools for children, etc
- and it is not "chances" but RISKS

Should be their "chances" and "risks" taken also by not reacting and fighting a parallel-government/terrorist group like Hizbollah within their own country? If they were genuinely against what Hizbollah had done and has been doing there would be for sure some sort of reaction. But no, let them install rockets and other military hardware on their roofs, they are fighting Israel, they must be good.  Yeah sure
Risks, yeah right...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
They can stay, and take those risks, or move away and stay alive. It's their call.

Or, as I said before, they can see that such groups would only bring more war and fight them as well. The Shah of Iran was deposed against much greater odds, wasn't him?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28):
is it necessary to "acknowledge" what has been extensively and almost daily in the news ?

I am pretty sure the ratio palestinians/israelis in the news is still something like 10:1. The problem is that Palestinians are killing themselves nowadays (like in the take over of Gaza by Hamas), so that it is not that easy to still blame Israel for those deaths. Not that many journalists and folks around here do not still try their best to do so.....  Yeah sure

Alex
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AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:44 am

May I ask who are the civilians in these areas? future holy Hezbollah commandos ? . They all want Israelis dead , and we have seen women suicide bombers before. My point is why should Israel trust any of them ? Furthermore , if these were civilian populations who did not want to strike out at Israel , they would effect change in their governments. We see no such action , we see only hatred coming from them. At what point do you just call it like it is.
All this aside, Israel must stay on the high-ground and do all possible to lower civ casualties ,,like they always do.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 29):
NO,
- they, in whatever zone they are, still are civilians
- they, as anybody, will not readily give up lodgings, jobs, schools for children, etc
- and it is not "chances" but RISKS

Should be their "chances" and "risks" taken also by not reacting and fighting a parallel-government/terrorist group like Hizbollah within their own country? If they were genuinely against what Hizbollah had done and has been doing there would be for sure some sort of reaction. But no, let them install rockets and other military hardware on their roofs, they are fighting Israel, they must be good. Yeah sure
Risks, yeah right...

-
Fact is that the Israelis waited far too long, far too long. They should have reacted earlier, across the border in the areas where Hizbullah was dominating, almost up to the Litani River, and up to Marjayoun in the East. Whomever in that zone was against Hizbullah did NOT dare to show it as he/she otherwise would have been expelled. The civilians did NOT have the weapons, Hizbullah had, and the Lebanese army was north of the Litani. So that your idea to blame them for their problem cannot be accepted.
-
You of course may say that my statement is contradictory by saying they had to stay and to take risks and at the other hand saying the Israelis should have acted earlier and more precisely. But this contradiction is fact and is what uncounted civilians in war history had to go through.
-

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 29):
s it necessary to "acknowledge" what has been extensively and almost daily in the news ?

I am pretty sure the ratio palestinians/israelis in the news is still something like 10:1.

While it in reality rather is something like 1:10 still
-

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 29):
The problem is that Palestinians are killing themselves nowadays (like in the take over of Gaza by Hamas), so that it is not that easy to still blame Israel for those deaths.

-
"killing themselves" is wrong. It was a kind of civil war. Hamas realized that they would have lost the next parliamentary elections, and therefore decided to make such elections impossible. The elected President therefore departed to the majority-area of Palestine, the WestBank and EastJerusalem, where he can start new elections and can be certain to win.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
May I ask who are the civilians in these areas?

simply local people of the area, farmers, traders, mechanics, bakers, butchers, greengrocers, just normal people. People who were not willing to give up their farms, orchards, olive-trees, or their workshops or other shops
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
They all want Israelis dead , and we have seen women suicide bombers before.

Rubbish, most have nothing to do with the Israelis. And we have not seen many suicide bombers from that area, in fact almost none.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
if these were civilian populations who did not want to strike out at Israel , they would effect change in their governments.

-
why should they want to effect change in their government ? Their government did NOT want war with Israel .
-
 
AGM100
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 31):
Rubbish, most have nothing to do with the Israelis. And we have not seen many suicide bombers from that area, in fact almost none.

Agreed I went a bit overboard ,

but we have no reason to believe that their is populace support for a more peaceful government. Why dont we see citizens moving to normalize relations with Israel ? To me it would be simple , if the Arab states would accept Israel as a nation the world would immediately laser in on what concessions Israel is going to make. If the citizens of Lebanon , Syria , Palestine, would make the first step to try something other than violence the pressure would be on Israel like never before.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 31):
Their government did NOT want war with Israel .

MAF I am suspect of this I guess ... I know their are some very good people in the Lebanese government. But they do not go all the way , they want peace . I believe that , but they will not have it until they accept their neighbour. They will not have peace until they get rid of the ideals of Hezzbollah .
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
but we have no reason to believe that their is populace support for a more peaceful government.

-
the government IS peaceful, and has always been peaceful
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Why dont we see citizens moving to normalize relations with Israel ?

Most Lebanese are in favour of normalizing relations with Israel, and that includes most of the government. But Lebanon has to wait until Israel and Syria have found a way along.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
if the Arab states would accept Israel as a nation the world would

the Arab states, at least most of them HAVE accepted Israel as a nation long ago, and many have diplomatic relations on different levels with Israel. And as soon as Palestine in the West Bank and East Jerusalem becomes independent, the way to far far more will be open.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
If the citizens of Lebanon , Syria , Palestine, would make the first step to try something other than violence the pressure would be on Israel like never before.

the citizens of Syria, I mean the Syrian soldiers, last time were in "violence" with Israel back in 1973
the citizens of Lebanon have never been in "violence" with Israel
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
they will not have it until they accept their neighbour

they have accepted that "neighbour" but formal recognition etc has to wait until Syria and Israel settle down
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
They will not have peace until they get rid of the ideals of Hezzbollah .

the ideals of Hizbullah are the ideals of Hizbullah, but A) not of the other parties, B) not of the majority of people and C) not of the majority in the government. Even if the government changes and includes Hizbullah (again), the majority of whatever government will not share the ideas (ideals) of Hizbullah. Why should non-fundamentalist Shi'ites and non-Shi'ites share the ideology of Hizbullah ? No reason.
-
 
TheCol
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 27):
Hizbullah in fact did NOT expect an Israeli attack on the scale it happened.

 redflag 

Considering Israel's long standing zero tolerance rule, I find that extremely hard to believe. Especially, since Hezbollah is in a better position to destabilize the Lebanese government.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 34):
Considering Israel's long standing zero tolerance rule, I find that extremely hard to believe. Especially, since Hezbollah is in a better position to destabilize the Lebanese government.

-
Hizbullah was very badly prepared, when the Israeli assault came. All their preparations have been for a border-conflict. And the Hizbullah leadership really was caught by surprise. And suffered immense financial losses. And in the effect lost its positions in the border-zone and now has to do with a much smaller zone of influence.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
the ideals of Hizbullah are the ideals of Hizbullah, but A) not of the other parties

MAF I spent a little lime last night reading speeches from President Lahoud . I realize these speeches are political and may not represent his real commitments , but they are telling. I am sure you are much more educated about the views of President Lahoud and have concluded your opinion. I found his views very interesting and I will say that he appears to have a more pro western theme than I realized. He definately is in favour of greater " Arab" state influence in the region , but does promote improved responsibilities. Unfortunately their is little doubt who he considers the great enemy of peace and some of his points may be valid , but playing to anti Israeli sentiments is clear though out.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 36):
a more pro western theme

President Lahoud is as pro-Western as anybody can be. The "greater Arab state" aspect is clear as Lebanon in fact is the Cradle of Pan Arab nationalism, AND as an Arab Christian, his emphasis of course is on Pan-ARABism and NOT on Pan-Islamism. But, whenever his power is strengthened by the fact that he is the man of the Assads, the main power in governing the country is with the Prime Minister, Mr Fouad Siniora. Mr Siniora also is heavily pro-Western.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
Mr Siniora also is heavily pro-Western.

Agreed , but I can not forget his statement after the last war .. "Lebanon will be the last country to sign onto to recognition of the state Israel" I am sure it was made during or after a heavy round of air-strikes so some latitude is given.

His outspokenness regarding Hezbollah is pretty strong , I will give him credit for that.. Now if he could arrange the release of the Israeli soldier ... he would gain some real credibility (IMHO)
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
"Lebanon will be the last country to sign onto to recognition of the state Israel" I am sure it was made during or after a heavy round of air-strikes

he from his house could well see the bombardments of the parts in South Beirut which were attacked, and the road linking the city-centre and the seats of president and prime-minister with the airport was heavily affected by those attacks.
-

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
if he could arrange the release of the Israeli soldier ... he would gain some real credibility

he hardly can do much about this, as the Lebanese government and the Lebanese Army do NOT hold any Israeli soldiers at this time. And I canNOT imagine those Hizbullah folks really listening to General Lahoud.
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
Hizbullah was very badly prepared, when the Israeli assault came.

They seemed to have faired pretty well for being extremely unprepared.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
And in the effect lost its positions in the border-zone and now has to do with a much smaller zone of influence.

Yet, their campaign to destabilize the country has been easier since the war.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Israeli Soldier Alive, Says Hamas

Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 40):
Hizbullah was very badly prepared, when the Israeli assault came.

They seemed to have faired pretty well for being extremely unprepared.

No, the "fared pretty" BADLY, suffering immense financial losses and tactical losses, but by a remarkable propaganda made what in reality was a definite disaster into a kind of victory. They prapared from the fact that the Israelis launched an all-out attack at everybody in Lebanon and did NOT attack Hizbullah for quite a while after the start. This gave Hizbullah the chance to reorganize. That the Israelis apparently do not have the road between Marjayoun (Beka'a Valley) and Damascus-Airport on their maps, gave even more help to Hizbullah.

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