In a continued effort to see just how far they can drive Congresses numbers down below where the Presidents approval ratings are, the democrats say that the AG's resignation today will not stop the investigations!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5530.html

Rather than work on meaningful legislation the partisan witch-hunts will continue! Just remember, these are your tax dollars at work and if that is what they are buying, I'm all for another round of tax cuts!

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter):
In a continued effort to see just how far they can drive Congresses numbers down below where the Presidents approval ratings are

What's funny is that the same crowd who will never admit to the President's incompetence and will dismiss any national poll as bias, will use the national approval numbers of congress to use as part of the reasons why they disapprove of them. As for the thread title, I think Democrats need to be changed to "I" as in you RJ. We get that you don't like the Democrats, and won't admit to the Republican failures. It's a bit predictable now my friend.

Start a thread when there is actual news next time.

Dave

[Edited 2007-08-28 01:46:30]

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter): Rather than work on meaningful legislation the partisan witch-hunts will continue!

Just to be clear, there's been plenty of dead horse-beating from both sides of the aisle over the years, so now's not the only time that those words have rung true, but I would really like to see some non-partisan efforts toward resolving some of the key issues at hand. Unfortunately, I have little faith that the future of US politics lies in that direction. While I am not very happy with the current Administration, I'm not sure I see any great improvements forthcoming from the Congressional Democratic majority. Third-party candidates ought to provide some kind of solution, but they typically muster little more than a yawn at best, and more likely a scoff, from the general populace.

Term limits and a sense of beholding to the people of this country might forge some dignity in Washington, but since the foxes are guarding the henhouse (i.e., only Congress can introduce a bill that imposes term limits - or am I wrong?), where's the true sense of purpose in my vote? I'd really like to be proud of voting, but it seems more and more that it's just an issue more horse shit or dog vomit.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2): Term limits and a sense of beholding to the people of this country might forge some dignity in Washington, but since the foxes are guarding the henhouse (i.e., only Congress can introduce a bill that imposes term limits - or am I wrong?), where's the true sense of purpose in my vote? I'd really like to be proud of voting, but it seems more and more that it's just an issue more horse shit or dog vomit.

  

What a cogent synopsis of the current state of affairs in Washington DC.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 1): What's funny is that the same crowd who will never admit to the President's incompetence and will dismiss any national poll as bias,

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 1): We get that you don't like the Democrats, and won't admit to the Republican failures. It's a bit predictable now my friend.

Perhaps you should read some of my posts in:
Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich (by Pope Aug 24 2007 in Non Aviation)

specifically reply 64. While I will take issue with anyone who lays down the lame "Bush lied" argument about Iraq, I will not take issue that this President is anything but a fiscal conservative. Nor will I argue that the Republicans in the past 7 years have been so either. On purely fiscal terms the republicans got what they deserved last November. On a performance basis, the people are not getting what they deserve out of the democrats now in power.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4): On a performance basis, the people are not getting what they deserve out of the democrats now in power.

Would you say the same (overall) about President Bush??

Dave

It's the only horse that they have.

The US people know the democrats are a bunch of morons without any meaningful plans.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 5): Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4): On a performance basis, the people are not getting what they deserve out of the democrats now in power. Would you say the same (overall) about President Bush??

"Chirp....chirp.....chrip"


RJdxer.

Of course he won't. Nor will L-188. BOTH entities are sucking up the joint right now, but those two, and a few others on here, will NEVER admit that Bush is anything but God-like. He's never made a mistake they couldn't apologize for, hence the sarcasm above.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 5): Would you say the same (overall) about President Bush??

No, he's too concerned making glue himself.

Gee... Another thread from RJ bashing the Democrats. What a fricken surprise!!    

If you put half the energy into looking at all the stupid crap Bush has done that you put into bashing the Democrats, you'd be amazed how much stuff you'd find!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7): a few others on here, will NEVER admit that Bush is anything but God-like.

Well I could say a few words about No Child Left Behind if that would make you feel better.

Or credit Billy C. for stepping up to the plate and saying he was the one who ordered the salvage of Jon-Jon's Piper, which every USCG admiral was saying it was the standard treatment they give everybody.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7): will NEVER admit that Bush is anything but God-like

If GWB were to say that the sky is blue, you would be front and center denying the fact. As much as you love to do a little right-wing bashing, you cannot even come to admit that you are squarely on the left wing side. I have seen you do plenty of times the same things that you criticize right-wingers on from your side of the aisle.

What a sad state the political discussion in the US must be in... I fear this kind of thread is representative. Seems to be a matter not of who's got the best ideas, but of who cang sling the most mud at the "enemy".

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter): Democrats To Keep Beating Dead Horse.

Who's beating a dead horse? you don't sound like you want everything bi-partisan like you talk.

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter): .... the democrats say that the AG's resignation today will not stop the investigations! ...

You know perfectly well that the Dems cannot make you happy no matter what course of action they take. If they continue the investigations (which they are), they're accused of beating a dead horse. If they let the investigations drop now that Gonzalez has resigned, they'd be accused of having only been after his resignation to begin with, instead of the pursuit of justice and integrity in the AG's office. You know you'd have a complaint no matter what they did.

What specifically do you want the Democrats to do in response to Gonzalez's resignation? Honest question.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6): ... It's the only horse that they have ...

No, not true. No need to characterize them as desperate to find some obscure horse to beat. This was hardly an obscure issue. And the fallout has not blown over yet.

I notice you aren't saying anything about Arlen Spector.

This isn't a dead horse. It's law enforcement.

Gonzalez has been accused of things that, depending on your viewpoint, are be so severe that he should be locked up for many years. He has been accused of crimes that are large in scope. I'd say let's wait for the facts to come out. Then we will decide if this was a "witch hunt" or a "successful criminal investigation of a bad man."

The NYT editorial today on his departure is one of the most withering condemnations of a sack of human shit that I have ever read. Well deserved

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): Gonzalez has been accused of things that, depending on your viewpoint, are be so severe that he should be locked up for many years.

And firing a bunch of guys who serve at the will of the administration breaks the law.....how?

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): I notice you aren't saying anything about Arlen Spector

He has cancer.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): I'd say let's wait for the facts to come out. Then we will decide if this was a "witch hunt" or a "successful criminal investigation of a bad man."

So, you try to sound a little reasonable, and then failed...

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): The NYT editorial today on his departure is one of the most withering condemnations of a sack of human shit that I have ever read. Well deserved

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15): And firing a bunch of guys who serve at the will of the administration breaks the law.....how?

You may want to read up on what's actually being investigated. We've beaten that horse dead a million times already.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): Gonzalez has been accused of things that, depending on your viewpoint, are be so severe that he should be locked up for many years. He has been accused of crimes that are large in scope. I'd say let's wait for the facts to come out. Then we will decide if this was a "witch hunt" or a "successful criminal investigation of a bad man."

   And that is just inside the US.

The numerous folk who seem to have been tortured courtesy of the X-AG, Cheney and Rummie might just possibly bear a grudge too. Which is why Gonzales will want to plan his future overseas travel just a bit more carefully than most of the rest of us.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17): You may want to read up on what's actually being investigated.

Westy, you mean you actually read into what's actually going on? Gosh, and here in this thread your type was referred to as a "moron." What a novel concept, me friend!

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): The NYT editorial today on his departure is one of the most withering condemnations of a sack of human shit that I have ever read

You're doing a heck of a job, Rovie. I mean Brownie. I mean Gonzie. I mean ... errr.... *crap*.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2): Just to be clear, there's been plenty of dead horse-beating from both sides of the aisle over the years, so now's not the only time that those words have rung true, but I would really like to see some non-partisan efforts toward resolving some of the key issues at hand. Unfortunately, I have little faith that the future of US politics lies in that direction. While I am not very happy with the current Administration, I'm not sure I see any great improvements forthcoming from the Congressional Democratic majority. Third-party candidates ought to provide some kind of solution, but they typically muster little more than a yawn at best, and more likely a scoff, from the general populace.

Excellent and accurate analysis.

While many investigations are needed, they probably won't get anywhere as the White House is going to stonewall all info. Better for the Democrats to reverse some of the worst legislation over the last 10 years when the Congress and Senate were under Republican control.
How about reversing the revisions of the Bankruptcy Law that benefited big banks and credit card companies and screwed those who got into medical debt? How about better regulations on credit card issuers to prevent usurious interest rates, obscene fees, arbitrary ways they set and adjust interest rates as well as overextending credit and tiny and overly legalistic print? Put into law restrictions on how much and how banks can charge fees to account holders? Figure out ways to protect mortgage borrowers who are in trouble now and hurting house values in some parts of the country How about revising the funding of Katina/Rita recovery funds? Those kind of changes would seriously affect many millions of people and could help you gain a lot of votes over a number of investigations that will probably be dead ends.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7): rse he won't. Nor will L-188. BOTH entities are sucking up the joint right now, but those two, and a few others on here, will NEVER admit that Bush is anything but God-like. He's never made a mistake they couldn't apologize for, hence the sarcasm above.

Flaming Falcon84,   

This is total BS & you're being your typical hypocritical self. Most, if not all conservatives here on a-nett acknowledge Bush has made many mistakes, what pres. hasn't. Our conservative stances are not extreme like yours. In fact, we back many of them up by facts. Can I say the same about extremists like yourself? Absolutely not!

We simply confront & debunk many of your over the top partisan hack views.[views & fictional beliefs you refuse to accept to be nothing but kool aid] Sorry for trying to get the record straight. What you & some other hacks try to do is try to make the impression that Bush isn't capable of doing anything right. Which is total BS. Only someone who is not intellectually honest with one self could believe such a ridiculous notion.

Same old [email protected]&* different day!


Doh!   

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 5): Would you say the same (overall) about President Bush??

Yes, the economy, while it can never be totally credited or debited to any one President, is still producing, even with the mortgage company problems. Taxes are lower than before President Bush took office. Tax receipts to the government are up. Even despite this Administrations horrible spending policy, the deficit is not as bad as feared. Seniors have a drug prescription plan that although I don't agree with, even the AARP reports most seniors seem satisfied with.
http://aarp.typepad.com/socialsecurity/prescription_drugs/index.html
No Child Left Behind, for all it's criticisms, appears to be working.
http://www.ed.gov/nclb/overview/importance/nclb5anniversary.html
IMO the Supreme Court is now more balanced.
While the war in Iraq could definitely have been run better, military results on the ground are now reported by the news media as being positive. Which in and of itself is pretty amazing. The political situation in Iraq is a different matter but I commend the President for not trying to "instill" a leader and for letting the Iraqis argue their political problems in the legislature. We have not had a significant terrorist attack against this country or any of its interests abroad out side of combat areas since 2001.

A shame we couldn't have gotten something meaningful out of the Administration on SS and immigration.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7): "Chirp....chirp.....chrip"

You know, his post was up at 2109 and your response was at 2139. Maybe if you had a swimming pool like I do...oops forgot, you can't afford one, President Bush and some evil capitalist have taken all the money you were going to spend on it.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7): He's never made a mistake they couldn't apologize for, hence the sarcasm above.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4): Perhaps you should read some of my posts in: Bush Tax Cut Soaked The Rich (by Pope Aug 24 2007 in Non Aviation) specifically reply 64.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 8): If you put half the energy into looking at all the stupid crap Bush has done that you put into bashing the Democrats, you'd be amazed how much stuff you'd find!

It takes too much energy looking into all the stupid crap the democrats do. Since January it has taken even more since they have cranked up the subpoena and Congressional investigation machine again. I wonder how much more that has cost us in pure dollar terms this year? Of course I could spend my time looking into all the fairy tales the far left spins but fantasy has never been my kind of reading.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10): If GWB were to say that the sky is blue, you would be front and center denying the fact.

Well to be honest, Falcon would hedge it by saying that there were some clouds in the sky, so if it did turn out to not be blue he could, in his mind, honestly come back and say I told you so.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11): Seems to be a matter not of who's got the best ideas, but of who cang sling the most mud at the "enemy".

You win the cheap cigar. But tell me, when is the last time that this President came out and said even have the bad things about the Speaker and the Senate Majority leader, on a personal level, that they have said about him?

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 12): Who's beating a dead horse? you don't sound like you want everything bi-partisan like you talk.

It's become apparent, especially since 1994, that the democrats are not interested in bi-partisian. They are interested in pre-1994 conditions where they wielded all control and as long as you played a long like a good little minority republican, they would toss you a bone although that is even in doubt now.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): You know you'd have a complaint no matter what they did.

Actually, if they had dropped the matter and moved on I would have been OK with that. Firing U.S. attorneys is not Congresses business.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): He has been accused of crimes that are large in scope.

So has Rep. Jefferson D-LA and yet even though he was caught red handed with a bunch of cash in his freezer. Commandeered a military vehicle during Katrina to remove articles from his house while people sat on their roofs awaiting rescue, he still serves without so much as a reprimand which says nothing good about the last Congress or the present one for that matter.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): It takes too much energy looking into all the stupid crap the democrats do.

           

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): Since January it has taken even more since they have cranked up the subpoena and Congressional investigation machine again.

It's needed! The Bush administration is so damn corrupt. Or do you think Brown, Rove, Gonzalez, et all have done a fantastic job?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): I wonder how much more that has cost us in pure dollar terms this year?

I wonder how much this war has cost the American tax payers.... ?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): Of course I could spend my time looking into all the fairy tales the far left spins but fantasy has never been my kind of reading.

and of course we could focus on all of the fairy tales the Bush administration has spun about the war, trying to convince us that it's not only the right thing to do, but it's working. Tell me, how many times does Bush need to hear that this is a failure from not just the Democrats, but the GOP before he'll figure out he's fucking this thing beyond repair?

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): You know perfectly well that the Dems cannot make you happy no matter what course of action they take. If they continue the investigations (which they are), they're accused of beating a dead horse. If they let the investigations drop now that Gonzalez has resigned, they'd be accused of having only been after his resignation to begin with, instead of the pursuit of justice and integrity in the AG's office. You know you'd have a complaint no matter what they did.

Well said. Course, don't you know that's straight out of the School o' Hannity?

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): What specifically do you want the Democrats to do in response to Gonzalez's resignation? Honest question.

Good question, I'd be interested in the response as well.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15): Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): Gonzalez has been accused of things that, depending on your viewpoint, are be so severe that he should be locked up for many years. And firing a bunch of guys who serve at the will of the administration breaks the law.....how?

Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that to be the limit of his treachery??

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): oops forgot, you can't afford one

Nope. Cannot. And even if I could, I wouldnt' get one. 1. Too difficult to take care of, and 2. Can only use it like 5 months out of the year in Ohio. So it doesn't bother me.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23): So has Rep. Jefferson D-LA and yet even though he was caught red handed with a bunch of cash in his freezer. Commandeered a military vehicle during Katrina to remove articles from his house while people sat on their roofs awaiting rescue, he still serves without so much as a reprimand which says nothing good about the last Congress or the present one for that matter.

Okay well that sounds pretty naughty. I'll trade you the corrupt Democrat for the Idaho senator who was trolling MSP bathrooms. Neither district is going to switch parties regardless.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 25): Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that to be the limit of his treachery??

Seriously. He did so many bad things (NYT editorial lists them), the crazy thing is, an honest Atty General would immediately go find Alberto Gonzales and throw him in jail! In rational eyes Gonzales was the #1 enemy of the US DOJ, if it were allowed to function properly, as a threat to the US Constitution. That is the problem with Congress rubber-stamping the President. That makes the President a full and true dictator. For 5 full years, our president was omnipotent. There was no limit to his power. He cast his arm in one direction and reduced the eternal nation of Iraq to ashes. Then he stripped the USA of its constitution and the USA sat around slack-jawed. Bush took over the USA like a virus, infecting all the many gardens of American power. Nothing he could do was illegal. I would say Bush was even more powerful than a king. He was the most powerful man in world history, during 2001-2006, that is my view on it. People talk about Napoleon, but where he got his true power was his brilliant strategy. Karl Rove will be seen as another Napoleon in the future.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 24): The Bush administration is so damn corrupt.

Proof please, not supposition or opinion but beyond reasonable doubt and corroborated proof.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 24): Or do you think Brown, Rove, Gonzalez, et all have done a fantastic job?

I think Rove did a fantastic job. As I have said in another thread, even though the republicans lost control of Congress in the past election, the democrats have been completely unable to take advantage of their victory through their own ineptness. Gonzalez was never even given a chance. From day one he was under attack about the Patriot act as well as foreign wire tap surveillance program. Brown was a scapegoat for the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor or Louisiana. If Brown was responsible then those two were even more so and yet since they were democrats, the media laid on the kid gloves with them. I have yet to hear anyone explain how FEMA is a first responder.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 24): I wonder how much this war has cost the American tax payers.... ?

Irrelevant. Two completely different items.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): What specifically do you want the Democrats to do in response to Gonzalez's resignation? Honest question.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 25): Good question, I'd be interested in the response as well.

Drop it since Congress has nothing to do with the day to day running of the Justice department and move on to more important items like immigration reform and Social Security reform. Not some political investigation that will not do anything to help remedy our much larger ills.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26): 1. Too difficult to take care of, and

I spend less than 2 hours a week taking care of mine.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26): Can only use it like 5 months out of the year in Ohio.

Unless I want to hand over the title to my house to the gas company I don't heat mine so it's out of action from the middle of November until the middle of April, except for the dog since she doesn't seem to care what the water temperature is.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): I'll trade you the corrupt Democrat for the Idaho senator who was trolling MSP bathrooms. Neither district is going to switch parties regardless.

And therein lies the bigger problem, there are a lot of losers in Congress but unfortunately the voter always seems to perceive the other districts Representative as the loser and not their own.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 24): and of course we could focus on all of the fairy tales

Like these?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): For 5 full years, our president was omnipotent. There was no limit to his power.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): Then he stripped the USA of its constitution and the USA sat around slack-jawed. Bush took over the USA like a virus, infecting all the many gardens of American power. Nothing he could do was illegal. I would say Bush was even more powerful than a king. He was the most powerful man in world history, during 2001-2006, that is my view on it. People talk about Napoleon, but where he got his true power was his brilliant strategy. Karl Rove will be seen as another Napoleon in the future.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): That is the problem with Congress rubber-stamping the President. That makes the President a full and true dictator. For 5 full years, our president was omnipotent. There was no limit to his power.

That you apparently believe Bush was a dictator is very, very sad.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 13): You know you'd have a complaint no matter what they did.

If you are insinuating RJdxer is an adamant partisan hack. You're mistaken! He has many times in the past [not to mention in this thread] demonstrated his impartiality regarding politics. However, if you were referring to Falcon84, well then, that's a completely different story!

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4): specifically reply 64. While I will take issue with anyone who lays down the lame "Bush lied" argument about Iraq, I will not take issue that this President is anything but a fiscal conservative. Nor will I argue that the Republicans in the past 7 years have been so either. On purely fiscal terms the republicans got what they deserved last November. On a performance basis, the people are not getting what they deserve out of the democrats now in power.

This quote from RJxer is one I agree with. Conservatives have veered off track a bit. However, what's worth pointing out is the fact the dems like Reid, Pelosi & Murtha are no better at best than the conservatives they replaced. Unfortunately, those 3 [the ones currently running the show in congress] are far left, extreme partisan hacks. All have ethical issues. In fact, one is on tape [Murtha] considering taking a $50,000 bribe. And, all have worked collectively to undermine our efforts on the war on Terror.

I found it reprehensible how Pelosi went to Syria & Reid at roughly the same time stated publicly "the war is lost". If only the lib media would do their job & expose these partisan hacks. But, the intellectually dis-honst lib media won't!

Makes me want to puke!

  

Quoting OU812 (Reply 30): If you are insinuating RJdxer is an adamant partisan hack. You're mistaken! He has many times in the past [not to mention in this thread] demonstrated his impartiality regarding politics.

Oh come on. Impartial ? Even Jim doesn't think of Jim as impartial ! I like and respect Jim after we meet at the REK meet, although we find ourselves on opposite ends of the political spectrum, but I wouldn't do him that disservice.

("Adamant partisan hack". I like it - I'll have to remember that one    )

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 31): Even Jim doesn't think of Jim as impartial !

Thats a fact. I will bend the republican way most times unless they are being stupid as in their fiscal and immigration policies of late.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 31): I like and respect Jim after we meet at the REK meet,

Same here although I'm still jealous that you got saga and i got the back of the ac next to the puking girl.    Of course I guess the return is I get to needle you about jumpseating. Did I tell you about the 767 ride from ewr to iah on the way back for KBPT?   

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15): Quoting Flighty (Reply 14): Gonzalez has been accused of things that, depending on your viewpoint, are be so severe that he should be locked up for many years. And firing a bunch of guys who serve at the will of the administration breaks the law.....how?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17): You may want to read up on what's actually being investigated. We've beaten that horse dead a million times already.

Thank you, Westy!

Having an extra-marital affair and lying about it is bad. But, as far as the government went, there really was no reason for the months of endless hearings to try to oust Bill Clinton. That is what "no one died with Clinton lied" means. Even with the economy slipping under Bush41, he had a better presidency IMO than the current administration. I think the only thing that will quiet the Dems is the swearing in of a Dem for president. But, if the Republicans win the Congress, they will go on a witch hunt the second the words "So help me God" are uttered by the new Democratic president. Mark my words. Even with nothing being done wrong. Even IF Clinton is elected president, we already know her personal papers are being made public as fast as they can per security concerns. But, that is not fast enough for Republicans who want any morsel to slander her if she becomes president. Same thing with Obama, Edwards and anyone else running with a (D) behind their name. Never mind if they are pure as the new driven snow, which in politics is IMPOSSIBLE!

Canada and England have it good with the Parliamentary system. I don't care how un-American that sounds. I think all this bickering between two sides of the same coin is un-American. We don't have a real choice. I am Democrat, because on paper, I feel they represent me more than Republicans. The Dems at least give lip service to me and my people: the laborers. If this were a Parliamentary system, things would be much different and we would have had a no-confidence vote a long time ago and the entire political landscape would be changed. Politics in America would finally be a contact-sport, like it should!

Quoting RJdxer (Thread starter): Rather than work on meaningful legislation the partisan witch-hunts will continue! Just remember, these are your tax dollars at work and if that is what they are buying, I'm all for another round of tax cuts!

I don't know about you, but when a public servant is linked to several scandals that go against the democratic nature of this country I'd like to get to the bottom of the issue. Whether Democrat or Republican (both parties are worthless, if you want my honest opinion), if someone allegedly:
-pushed for wire-tapping on U.S. soil,
-turned the face away over allegations of torture on overseas prisons,
-did not alter the course of the Administration of detaining "alleged" terrorists for years without proper counsel or access to attorneys or being charged with anything,
-and on top of that he is linked to the dismissal of several US Attorneys because of political reasons.

I think I'd expect Congress to investigate a bit further. Now, I was careful to use the words "allegedly", as thus far no charges have been pressed or formal accusations made. However, no one should be above the law, and if he overstepped his boundaries and mis-used his office, then he should face the consequences. I think that's a fair use of my tax dollars.

Please feel free to digress.

Cheers!

Charles

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 33): Having an extra-marital affair and lying about it is bad.

So breaking a law that is part of the Constitution you swore to uphold is ok depending on the lie. BTW, call the NY TImes, you evidently have absolute proof that President Bush lied about Iraq. That he knew that the wmd's weren't there. You're going to be huge.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 34): pushed for wire-tapping on U.S. soil,

Between off shore calls and the United States? Do we have the right to police our borders or not? What if they had intercepted child pornography and used it to bust up a ring of child molesters?

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 34): and on top of that he is linked to the dismissal of several US Attorneys because of political reasons.

Which is completely legitimate unless you know of some arcane rule that I have missed.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 34): Please feel free to digress.

I have.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 35): So breaking a law that is part of the Constitution you swore to uphold is ok depending on the lie.

If you're talking about Clinton's lie about a blowjob, yes, in a way it is different. It isn't OK, but it doesn't rise to the level of lying about the firing of prosecutors, and if it was done out of partisanship, then I think that's much more serious than what Clinton did.

I know you'll disagree. Most Republicans still think what Clinton did was worse than Watergate (my apologies to John Dean and his book of the same name, which I will soon read), but it isn't. It doesn't approach what Gonzalez has allegedly done.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 28): Drop it since Congress has nothing to do with the day to day running of the Justice department and move on to more important items like immigration reform and Social Security reform. Not some political investigation that will not do anything to help remedy our much larger ills.

If the Democrats "dropped it" as you've suggested, you and every other partisan would be shouting from the rooftops that they are negligent - and not doing their jobs.

If they had nothing to do with the Justice Department, they would have no power to form committees to investigate, and subpoena Justice Department officials to appear before those committees. But they DO have that power, and have used it wisely.

It sounds to me like you just want them to butt out of issues you don't want looked at - and focus on anything else you can try to re-direct them to - all in an effort to make them look like they have misplaced priorities.

One minute they are said to have "nothing to do with the day-to-day . . . " and the next minute every Conservative in this country is whining and complaining that they (the Dems) aren't getting anything done.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36): If you're talking about Clinton's lie about a blowjob, yes, in a way it is different.

Lying is still a federal crime, regardless of the circumstances, and if Libby was going to jail for lying, so should have Clinton.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36): and if it was done out of partisanship

Clinton had a bunch of Democrats under his cabinet, was he a partisan? Of course he was! It's politics. Doing something for partisan purposes is NOT a crime. Lying about it can be considered perjury. Gonzales is accused of lying, the firing of prosecutors for partisan reason is not a crime.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): I would say Bush was even more powerful than a king.

And it has been noted that his name is George.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36): If you're talking about Clinton's lie about a blowjob, yes, in a way it is different.

Let it be recorded here and now that, according to Falcon, it is OK for the President of the United States to knowingly break the law and that he/she should suffer no consequences for their actions. That should come in real handy in the next 9 years.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36): It isn't OK, but it doesn't rise to the level of lying about the firing of prosecutors, and if it was done out of partisanship, then I think that's much more serious than what Clinton did.

What part of "they serve at the Presidents leisure" don't you understand? What law was broken in their firing? But of course since we have just found out that it is OK for the President to knowingly break the law, then no matter what they were fired for, it's all ok.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36): It doesn't approach what Gonzalez has allegedly done.

The keyword in that sentence is "allegedly". We know that President Clinton broke the law, there is no allegation there. But since we have come to the conclusion that it is OK for the President of the United States to knowingly break the law, we now have to discuss whether it is OK for the AG to knowingly break a law and face no serious consequences.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 37): One minute they are said to have "nothing to do with the day-to-day . . . " and the next minute every Conservative in this country is whining and complaining that they (the Dems) aren't getting anything done.

They do not have anything to do with the day to day running of the Justice department. That would be, surprise, the AG's job. They are free to hold hearings into the effectiveness of the Justice department and into the Justice departments expenditures. They have oversight in several areas, but not in the hiring and firing of Asst. U.S. Attorneys. Asst. U.S. Attorney do not have to be confirmed by the Senate, they serve at the leisure of the President, not anyone or any committee in Congress. So if the President decides to fire all of them tomorrow, Congress may question the wisdom of doing that, but they have no say in whether or not it can be done.

Meanwhile, would you say that we have several major problems facing the nation in the form of immigration and entitlement spending reform? Which do you think deserves the greater amount of national attention? What, if anything, is the democratic leadership in charge of this Congress doing to remedy those problems? What plans have they come up with? What bills do they have pending in committee? I have not heard of any. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Have they conferenced with the President on anything but the situation in Iraq? Have they come out and said, Mr. President, we need to work on this now! I have not heard that. Perhaps you have?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 38): Lying is still a federal crime, regardless of the circumstances, and if Libby was going to jail for lying, so should have Clinton.

  
Except, as we have found out here tonight, the President can lie and in the process break the law and face no consequences. President Nixon must be rolling in his grave.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 38): Lying is still a federal crime, regardless of the circumstances, and if Libby was going to jail for lying, so should have Clinton.

Sorry, I don't buy that. The normal person doing what Libby did goes to jail. The normal person who did what Mr. Clinton did would get off on parole, nothing more. It didn't affect National Security, or the direction of this nation, or policy. He didn't deserve jail. He didn't deserve impeachment.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Let it be recorded here and now that, according to Falcon, it is OK for the President of the United States to knowingly break the law and that he/she should suffer no consequences for their actions. That should come in real handy in the next 9 years.

He suffered consequences for it. He was impeached. He suffered great embarrassment. He suffered a rift in his marriage. He didn't go to jail, nor should he have. He shouldn't have been impeached either. It was a bunch of partisan bull, that impeachment. Unfortunately, you probably think it rivaled Watergate.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41): The normal person doing what Libby did goes to jail

To wit, Falcon, Libby at the end was not accused as was proven to NOT HAVE LEAKED HER NAME, or did we forget that to rewrite a little history?

The fact still remains, Clinton lied under oath, so did Libby. One went to jail for it, one didn't. Why not?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 42): The fact still remains, Clinton lied under oath, so did Libby. One went to jail for it, one didn't. Why not?

Ask Republican lawmakers in Congress, not me, mate. They could have sent Clinton packing, but, like most Americans, they didn't think the "crime" fit the sought-after punishment. It was a culmination of a 6-year (at the time) witch-hunt to drive Clinton from office somehow. Clinton was stupid enough to give them any ammo. But the litany of Whitewater, Filegate, Travelgate, Ron Brown, Vince Foster, et al, and the blatant, absurd attempt to topple Clinton, will go down as a shameful period in our time.

My answer simply is maybe neither should have been jailed, perhaps. Maybe he should be let out. But Mr. Clinton certainly didn't deserve any more than what he got.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41): It was a bunch of partisan bull, that impeachment.

Houston, we have conformation that it is OK for the President of the United States to commit perjury in a court of law after swearing to Tell the truth, the whole truth thereby rendering his oath of office (I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States), meaningless.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41): The normal person doing what Libby did goes to jail.

Then why isn't Richard Armitage in jail?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41): He didn't deserve impeachment.

He was the President of the United States. If the President can tell a lie in court and get away with it, then anyone ought to be able to. Or are you saying the President should be held to a lesser standard? BTW the perjury charge actually passed in the House with 5 democrats voting in favor.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43): My answer simply is maybe neither should have been jailed, perhaps. Maybe he should be let out. But Mr. Clinton certainly didn't deserve any more than what he got.

Look, I don't disagree with your assesment one bit, hell, I completely agree with it.

As I stated before, the pursuit of any government official for lying, regardless of whether they committed a crime, is a road best not travelled.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 40): Meanwhile, would you say that we have several major problems facing the nation in the form of immigration and entitlement spending reform?

I can think of many priorities that are not getting addressed, but not necessarily the ones you mentioned. So that leads me to ask why the President was playing politics with the judicial system, and turning our Attorney General into a dishonest political operative, instead of tackling those problems himself.

Is this where you tell us it's not his job to have these concerns?

Is this where you tell us that whatever RJDxer believes is not getting done becomes a national priority and is automatically being neglected by Congress IF, and only IF, Congress is run by a Democratic majority?

Quoting Diamond (Reply 46): So that leads me to ask why the President was playing politics with the judicial system

What do you call when a president selects a member of the Supreme Court?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 35): Between off shore calls and the United States? Do we have the right to police our borders or not? What if they had intercepted child pornography and used it to bust up a ring of child molesters?

It was more than that, it was wire-tapping calls within the US territory without a warrant. No government should have such freedom as to listen to the conversations of private citizens without a court order at the very least. I understand that it was done in the name of "security", but we all know that even the noblest of intentions can be mis-used for other gains.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 35): Which is completely legitimate unless you know of some arcane rule that I have missed.

Whether it's legitimate or not, firing someone for political reasons when you are supposed to represent Justice is not confidence-inspiring. Again, I don't care if it was a republican or a democrat doing it, the message it gives me is that you'd make decisions not based on facts but on ideology. We certainly don't need individuals with extreme point of views in these positions.

Cheers!

Charles

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47): What do you call when a president selects a member of the Supreme Court?

There is a difference between appointing a Supreme Court Judge that has a conservative or liberal viewpoint, and making an agreement with an Attorney General to have an ongoing strategy to bring ideology, vindictiveness and retaliation into the Justice Department.

While the current President may have appointed two conservatives to the Supreme Court, very few people expect that any Judge on that court (including those two) is in a political conspiracy with the President. The same cannot be said for what just happened with Gonzalez.