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sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:32 am

I just read that the Police think the mother gave the girl an overdose of a sedative, to keep her quiet and chilled out while the parents were dining.
So they think it was accidental. Then they came back to check on the girl, and shes dead.

Then the cover-up. That makes sense. The mother was a good mother before that night, but maybe made 1 terrible mistake, a lapse of judgement that caused the death of her child.

Pediatric dosing of drugs is very very complicated. You can just give kids a smaller dose or break the pill in half.

I'm not saying the mother did any of this, Just trying to imagine what the police think may have happened.
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 48):
Going back to the very beginning, a kidnapping was suspected. I know enough about such things to know what the police will have advised; that the motive for most kidnappings is ransom, and therefore that the best course would have been to sit quietly at home and wait for the phone to ring, or contact to be established in some other way.

Unfortunately these days, the predominant reason for a child kidnapping in a western nation is sexual in nature - and its (again) unfortunately very rare to recover the child alive.

Also the Portuguese police were very lax in the first few days of the hunt - the first large scale searches were conducted not by the police but by British ex pats and friends living out there, with the police not really getting involved until after that.

Anything could have happened in those few days.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 49):
If the mother and father are found guilty I wish they get a life for that.

Not in Portugal they won't - maximum jail sentence is 25 years.
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OHLHD
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 52):
Not in Portugal they won't - maximum jail sentence is 25 years.

Will they be brought back to Portugal if they find evidence? Or will they be trialed in England?
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 53):

Will they be brought back to Portugal if they find evidence? Or will they be trialed in England?

The crime occurred in Portugal, so it will be tried in Portugal unless a special request is made.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 54):

But will England send them hand-cuffed back to Faro?
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 55):
But will England send them hand-cuffed back to Faro?

Three things could happen:

1. They go back voluntarily and are arrested and formally charged in Portugal

2. They refuse to go back and Portugal submit a formally extradition request, resulting in the McCanns being arrested by British police and escorted to Portugal

3. They refuse to go back and Portuguese officers come to Britain under an extradition request, arrest the McCanns and escort them back

There are many other options, but those three are the most likely (if it were to ever come to this anyway).
 
OHLHD
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 56):

Thanks!


I do hope that this story ends soon!  Smile
 
CXA330300
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:41 am

I'm rather surprised there's all this shock that they've been named suspects-with very little evidence, its the only plausible thing that can be proven right now. Their story of what happened the night of 3 May doesn't show the best judgement anyway-why would anyone leave a four-year-old and two two-year olds unsupervised? At least the Portuguese police see some sense...and it is somewhat easier for them under arguido/arguida status: right to a lawyer, right to remain silent.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting 808TWA (Reply 9):

In some ways it rings bells with the Bennet Ramsey case in the US.

Beat me to it... the moment I heard of the mother being declared suspect, that's immediately what jumped into my mind.
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GDB
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:26 am

Pyrex, while the media here have been at pains to report the differences between UK and Portuguese legal systems, on reflection, I remember that a relative of the McCann's cited fixed terms, to discredit the police, not any legal expert.

RFields has a point, in fact the mother has held on to, in public, a favourite toy of her daughter, the DNA found was called 'significantly degraded'.

I have some difficulty in thinking that if guilty, they'd try to dispose of a body, in that intense media glare.
Unless done on the night, if so, quite a few witnesses would have to have been very wrong with their recollections and timings, unless they were in on it, most unlikely.
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 60):
I have some difficulty in thinking that if guilty, they'd try to dispose of a body, in that intense media glare.
Unless done on the night, if so, quite a few witnesses would have to have been very wrong with their recollections and timings, unless they were in on it, most unlikely.

I can't help but keep coming back to one of the abilities granted to Portuguese police when they name someone as a suspect - the ability to 'ask certain questions'. Is this the actual reason for naming the McCanns as suspects?
 
Toulouse
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Can someone tell me why this is international news? I really don't get it.

IMHO opinion, because the parent's made it so to distract attention from them. You know, when I was in Spain back in June, this was already rumoured in the press. I hope it's not true, but I've always felt the parents could be the true culprits. God help the poor little girl.
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NAV20
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:22 am

About 'international news,' the husband, Gerry McCann, lost no time in briefing the whole of the British press as soon as the couple returned from Portugal. In the course of those interviews he said one thing that I personally find absolutely incredible:-

“Our lawyer said the weight of it is that, under the Portuguese legal system, they’ve got enough to move forward against us. We never had to say it until now . . . but we did not kill our daughter,” he told the News of the World.

"The couple are considering bringing lawyers from the UK to assist their Portuguese adviser, though they are frustrated that they will not be allowed to use any of the £800,000 in the Madeleine Fund to pay their legal bills.

“It seems like a disaster that we’ve got this huge donated fund and now we’re not allowed to use it for legal costs because we’re under suspicion,” he said."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...tory/0,25197,22388188-2703,00.html

The 'Madeleine Fund' was set up to handle the sympathy donations that poured in after the McCanns began their publicity campaign. Over a million pounds has been subscribed. One can be sure that the people who donated money envisaged it being used, in some way, to help the search for the little girl.

It astonishes me that Mr. McCann evidently feels 'deprived' at not being able to use the money to defend himself and his wife against possible criminal charges?

Looking further into the Fund, I discover that it has been set up not as a charity but as a not-for-profit limited company. It's objectives are stated as follows:-

"The family of Madeleine McCann are to-day launching the Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned appeal. The funds will be used to help find Madeleine McCann, support her family and bring her abductors to justice. Any surplus funds will be used to help families and missing children in United Kingdom, Portugal and elsewhere in similar circumstances.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/fund/

Not at all sure about that 'support the family' bit........it looks a bit 'open-ended'?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
OB1504
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 36):
As has been stated the parents made a major effort to keep it in the news, which makes their possible involvement seem a bit strange. Surely you would want this to quietly slip from the news if you were involved?

Maybe that's just what they want you to think?  stirthepot 
 
NAV20
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:45 am

Further about the 'Madeleine Fund,' reading between the lines of this (from the FAQ Section) most of the funds expended so far have gone to 'supporting the family.' Nothing at all appears to have been spent on what most donors presumably thought was the primary purpose (i.e. searching for Madeleine).

"14. What is the money being spent on?

"The Fund is supporting the McCann family during their search for Madeleine and in ensuring a high profile of Madeleine’s abduction is maintained. As at the end of July 2007, only a small proportion of the money raised has been spent. This has been on awareness raising items e.g. wristbands, website, family expenses and professional fees, including concerning international law on child abduction and the costs of setting up the Fund. The directors are considering the future strategy of the Fund to ensure effective use of funds."


http://www.findmadeleine.com/fund/faq.asp

Knowing the ways of Fleet Street when they get a sniff of scandal, I give it a week before they start following this angle up.......

[Edited 2007-09-10 04:48:38]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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yowza
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 14):

Probably rich.

They flew back to the UK on U2 so they can't be that rich.

YOWza
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 41):
Which makes it highly significant, to my mind, that the McCanns have left Portugal in a hurry

Agreed, the moment they got a whiff of being considered suspects, they decide to return home. Then have the audacity to ask the media to respect their privacy, despite craving the media attention every day for the last four months. Thats odd, sin't it?

Quoting GDB (Reply 60):
Unless done on the night, if so, quite a few witnesses would have to have been very wrong with their recollections

Several witnesses reported seeing a man carrying a little girl a short while before Kate McCann came screaming from the restaurant that "somebody had taken her little girl". Hmm, how did she kow, and why immediately assume she was taken - children wander off more often than they are 'taken'.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 64):
Maybe that's just what they want you to think?

Reverse psychology....

Quoting YOWza (Reply 66):
They flew back to the UK on U2 so they can't be that rich

LOL - have u tried getting an easyJet flight at short notice on that route?
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 67):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 41):
Which makes it highly significant, to my mind, that the McCanns have left Portugal in a hurry

Agreed, the moment they got a whiff of being considered suspects, they decide to return home. Then have the audacity to ask the media to respect their privacy, despite craving the media attention every day for the last four months. Thats odd, sin't it?

Today has been the deadline for them leaving their rented apartment for a while now, because the lease is up, hence:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 67):
LOL - have u tried getting an easyJet flight at short notice on that route?
 
777236ER
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:47 pm

Although I have my suspicions (and at the very least the McCann's should face prosecution for negligence) it's not cut and dried yet. Disposing of the body under such a media spotlight would be almost impossible, and keeping the body for 25 days after reporting her missing would also be nearly impossible. Without a body I doubt any conviction could come. The fact the police allegedly offered the mother such a light sentence in return for a confession shows how little they have to go on.

I agree with others about not being sentimental. The odds are that the parents did it, not a stranger. Just because they're upper middle class doctors doesn't mean they're not capable of something monstrous. Not to get carried away with the tabloids, but there always seemed something odd about the parent's response, their attitude towards the police and their attempts to garner sympathy as much as find their daughter.
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7LBAC111
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:29 pm

Maybe this is the sceptic in me, but why would you seek legal advice from such a high profile source?

Quote:
They are being advised by Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, from London legal firm Kingsley Napley.
Mr Caplan acted for former Chilean dictator General Augusto Pinochet when Spain attempted to extradite him from the UK in 1999.

Presumably this is due to their understanding of the different legal systems

7L
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Door5Right
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Can someone tell me why this is international news?

Anyone wishing to understand better how the McCann case has been been world headlines for so long may find this article in the Times newspaper explains how this is now global:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2409958.ece
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rfields5421
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 58):
why would anyone leave a four-year-old and two two-year olds unsupervised?

So, when children are asleep in their bedrooms at home, the parents can't sit on the front porck and talk with friends - because the kids will be unsupervised?

They can't eat dinner on the back patio - because the kids will be unsupervised?

They can't walk to the neighbor's house next door and talk - because the kids will be unsupervised?

If parents are traveling, they can't leave children in the room and go down to the lobby bar/ restaurant for a meal or a drink - because the kids will be unsupervised?

Yes this family was in a tourist area. Yes, they were not in the room with the kids. They were only a few meters away at the adjacent restaurant. The wife got up several times during the meal - at least once every 15 minutes to half-hour and went to check on the kids.

The implication was that the parents abandoned the children for hours for an evening of wild partying. That's not true.

Honestly, I don't think you are going to find any parents anywhere what live up to the implied standard which has been set for this couple.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 67):
Agreed, the moment they got a whiff of being considered suspects, they decide to return home.

This suspect story has been around for a couple weeks in the media.

The timing of the return to UK was anticipated almost three weeks ago when stories about the end of the lease and money were published.

It looks more like the Portugese police decided to make a last interrogation before the planned return. As the father said, the laws in Protugal have prevented the police from asking the question "Did you kill your daughter?" until the parents were formally named as suspects.

If the US that would be the second question asked.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 72):
Honestly, I don't think you are going to find any parents anywhere what live up to the implied standard which has been set for this couple.

What [email protected]?

They left their 2 and 4 year ols ALONE in a hotel in a foreign country while out dining and drinking wine.

Two words. BAD Parenting. Period. End of Story.

That is not the same as "siiting out on the back porch" ( with front door locked, and children alseep ) , and everyone knows that.

For your information: NO; the parents cannot leave 2 and 4 year olds unsupervised in the house while they "walk to the neighbor's house next door and talk "

Kids who are that young can't be left alone. They could turn on the stove, drown in a pool, fall down the stairs or wander out the door into the street.This is common sense.

I don't want the parents prosecuted for neglect if their child was kidnapped, but it should be a lesson to other parents(especially those on vacations abroad), to never let their children out of their sight.
 
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 74):
I don't want the parents prosecuted for neglect if their child was kidnapped, but it should be a lesson to other parents(especially those on vacations abroad), to never let their children out of their sight.

There was a case here in the UK not too long ago where a mother left her 6 year old daughter playing in the bath while she did something in the bedroom. The girl was kidnapped, taken away in a car, abused and dumped naked in an alley miles from her home.

There had been no one else in the home at the time.

Is this mother a bad parent also?
 
skidmarks
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:22 am

Having seen some of the responses and opinions passed here I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people here are perfect. They never do anything wrong, they never make mistakes and they certainly wouldn't do what this couple have done. My, how good we are and how qualified to criticise and slag off. And of course, its on the news, in the papers and the facts are, as we all know, true, coming from the media as they do.

Certainly makes me realise what a lot of pompous asses are using this forum and personally I find THAT more offensive than the alleged crime that the McCanns may or may not have committed. The urge to condem and revile on the say so of the media is pathetic and not the actions of sane, rational beings.

Wonder anything ever goes wrong with so many goody two shoes around.

Andy  old 
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777236ER
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Having seen some of the responses and opinions passed here I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people here are perfect. They never do anything wrong, they never make mistakes and they certainly wouldn't do what this couple have done. My, how good we are and how qualified to criticise and slag off. And of course, its on the news, in the papers and the facts are, as we all know, true, coming from the media as they do.

Don't be ridiculous, this isn't about people being sanctimonious without reason and holding the McCann's up to an unachievable standard. They left three of their young children, (two two-year olds and the four-year old Madeline) in an unlocked appartment and had tea 150 metres away (looking at the Google earth images of the place, that's three streets over (!)), checking them only every 30 minutes. This is totally irresponsible. Would you leave your three young children in an unlocked car while you had lunch three streets away?
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Banco
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Having seen some of the responses and opinions passed here I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people here are perfect. They never do anything wrong, they never make mistakes and they certainly wouldn't do what this couple have done. My, how good we are and how qualified to criticise and slag off. And of course, its on the news, in the papers and the facts are, as we all know, true, coming from the media as they do.

Certainly makes me realise what a lot of pompous asses are using this forum and personally I find THAT more offensive than the alleged crime that the McCanns may or may not have committed. The urge to condem and revile on the say so of the media is pathetic and not the actions of sane, rational beings.

Wonder anything ever goes wrong with so many goody two shoes around.

 thumbsup   praise 
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OHLHD
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Having seen some of the responses and opinions passed here I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people here are perfect. They never do anything wrong, they never make mistakes and they certainly wouldn't do what this couple have done. My, how good we are and how qualified to criticise and slag off. And of course, its on the news, in the papers and the facts are, as we all know, true, coming from the media as they do.

We are talking here about a possible murder of a little child and you talk about that some people are perfect and never do any mistakes. For god sake I want to see you saying: The little girl was killed by medicament's because the parents wanted a calm night, but hey shit happens???

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Certainly makes me realise what a lot of pompous asses are using this forum and personally I find THAT more offensive than the alleged crime that the McCanns may or may not have committed.

That is ridiculous!
 
sh0rtybr0wn
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 75):
There was a case here in the UK not too long ago where a mother left her 6 year old daughter playing in the bath while she did something in the bedroom. The girl was kidnapped, taken away in a car, abused and dumped naked in an alley miles from her home.

There had been no one else in the home at the time.

Is this mother a bad parent also?

You're trying to conflate leaving a girl in the bath and stepping into an adjacent bedroom several feet away, with parents leaving children alone at a hotel room to go dining in a foreign country.

Not even close.

And I'm not saying these 2 Brits were Bad parents. Their children were well taken care of before this and my guess is they usually looked after all three children well until this momentary ( and I think self indulgent ) lapse of judgement.

I don't understand why some are defending the parents behavior that night. I hope people see this as a reminder to pay more attention to the children.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 72):
The wife got up several times during the meal - at least once every 15 minutes to half-hour and went to check on the kids.

So they say.

But using what we have gleened from the press and witness statements, each of those 15-30 minute periods were plenty of time to adminsiter a sedative (Madeline was said to have been disruptive that night), return 30mins later to discover her dead, panic, return to the restaurant and drink another of the 14 bottles of wine consumed by their party that night, plan what to do, pick little Madeline up (a man was seen carrying a child around that time) and dispose of her. Still allowing sufficient time to return to the 'party' and be seen to 'check' on Madeline one last time before declaring that 'someone had taken MAdeline' (and not that there three year old could have woken up and gone wandering which is much more likely if this were true!)

I'm trying to think in the mindset of the police - the timeline......  stirthepot 

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 72):
The implication was that the parents abandoned the children for hours for an evening of wild partying. That's not true

Witnesses, including a barman in a resort several miles away, report seeing the MCanns that night.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 74):
Kids who are that young can't be left alone. They could turn on the stove, drown in a pool, fall down the stairs or wander out the door into the street.This is common sense.

 checkmark  Thats common bloody sense, and the most basic of parenting!

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Certainly makes me realise what a lot of pompous asses are using this forum and personally I find THAT more offensive than the alleged crime that the McCanns may or may not have committed. The urge to condem and revile on the say so of the media is pathetic and not the actions of sane, rational beings

As much as you're entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours. And arguably an equally pompous ass is taking the morale high ground, sitting on the fence and not forming an opinion. Thats both noble and admirable of you - but I (if one of the pompous asses you refer to) happen to think slightly differently, as do many many more.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 76):
Wonder anything ever goes wrong with so many goody two shoes around

I too wonder how anything goes wrong when so many people know best....

7L
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Banco
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 80):
Their children were well taken care of before this and my guess is they usually looked after all three children well until this momentary ( and I think self indulgent ) lapse of judgement.

But that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, and somewhat unlike the view some are expressing that for one lapse in judgement they should be prosecuted and punished - as if losing your child isn't punishment enough. I would suggest that virtually all parents have made a "lapse in judgement" and because such an event is so rare, they all get away with it. That's what I find deeply distasteful, the holier than thou response we see so often, as if neither they, nor any other "good" parent, has ever made a mistake in their lives. The truth is that the kids should have been perfectly safe, irrespective of the wisdom of the parents decision.

Now, of course, should it then be demonstrated that these two are in fact responsible for whatever has happened to the child, that changes things utterly. I find the whole thing damn peculiar. Much of the media is now reporting that there is deep unease within the British forensic services at the conclusions the Portuguese police seem to have been drawing from the various tests. But this means nothing really, same as with any other part of this ever more peculiar case. And let's not forget that the press slaughtered that poor bastard Robert Murat, comparing him to the Soham murderer Ian Huntley on several occasions. He seems almost certain to be innocent, but his life has been destroyed.
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moo
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 80):

You're trying to conflate leaving a girl in the bath and stepping into an adjacent bedroom several feet away, with parents leaving children alone at a hotel room to go dining in a foreign country.

Not even close.

All I was highlighting was that in the real world it doesn't care where the parent is - if someone is going to be so bold as to take the child, it can happen right under your nose. If a child can be taken from the bathtub while the mother is a few metres away in a bedroom, why is it OK for parents to be out on the porch?

Hence why your following statements are ludicrous.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 80):
I hope people see this as a reminder to pay more attention to the children.



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 74):
to never let their children out of their sight.
 
777236ER
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 82):
But that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, and somewhat unlike the view some are expressing that for one lapse in judgement they should be prosecuted and punished - as if losing your child isn't punishment enough. I would suggest that virtually all parents have made a "lapse in judgement" and because such an event is so rare, they all get away with it. That's what I find deeply distasteful, the holier than thou response we see so often, as if neither they, nor any other "good" parent, has ever made a mistake in their lives. The truth is that the kids should have been perfectly safe, irrespective of the wisdom of the parents decision.

No, I don't agree. The parents made the concious decision to leave the kids, that was poor judgement not a lapse in attention or anything like that. Other poor judgements are regularly grounds for prosecution, why the difference in this case? Don't downplay the actions that lead up to her disappearance, it's not like they were having tea downstairs with the kids upstairs, they were having tea 150 meters away having left the very young children in an unlocked appartment checking them only every 30 minutes.

As loathe as I am to link to the Daily Mail, they have a good graphical representation of just how far they were away here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv..._article_id=474428&in_page_id=1811

It's a ground floor villa with the patio doors completely unlocked and all the entrances not visible from where the McCann's were eating. They're both doctors, they're not stupid people, they knew the clear risks of this. Regardless of the outcome, it was negligence.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
GDB
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:14 am

While we can not rule out parental involvement, I have some sympathy with Skidmarks and Banco here.
I've certainly never heard the one about a barman seeing the parents several miles away, should that be metres perhaps.
OTOH, it might be that the McCanns did not check in on the kids as often as they have said.

I too do not care for the media speculations too much, from some pundits who have nanny's and other 'help' around.

And yet, they were small children, in a foreign land, not in direct line of sight of their parents, but it's a hell of leap from that lapse to manslaughter or even murder.

While guilty parents have certainly done the press conferences to 'find' the child before, the mass campaign for this poor little girl was something else again, subjecting the parents to massive coverage over an extended period.

Forensics on this case, seem a weak point, they are not perfect, plus the police will be well aware that the initial forensic evidence that might have been around, was almost certainly lost/contaminated at the start.
The police response seems not to have been slow, but keeping the crime scene as clean as possible seems a major lapse.

Watching stuff like CSI has made forensics 'experts' of a lot of people, but don't the characters in that show routinely eat and have loose hair in the labs?
 
777236ER
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 85):
And yet, they were small children, in a foreign land, not in direct line of sight of their parents, but it's a hell of leap from that lapse to manslaughter or even murder.

No one said that, it's not either. It was negligence though, and despite quite heavy calls for it to be investigated by Portugese have done nothing and the CPS muttered amongst themselves and gave up.

Whether or not the parents had any other involvement is irrelevent really, they shouldn't have left their kids like that.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
noelg
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 72):
The implication was that the parents abandoned the children for hours for an evening of wild partying. That's not true.

People staying in the resort reported that they were out every night of that holiday on their own. That night was the closest they had been in the entire stay - at one point they were on the other side of the town!

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 72):
They were only a few meters away at the adjacent restaurant.

They were over 100 yards away, direct. Look at the aerial photos of the resort. Their apartment was on the other side of the building from where they were, over a swimming pool, 6ft wall and a busy road. Sure they may have been able to "see" the hotel, but they were not within sight of the apartment.

The patio doors to the apartment were also unlocked, on the ground floor. Is that so responsible?

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 80):
Their children were well taken care of before this and my guess is they usually looked after all three children well until this momentary ( and I think self indulgent ) lapse of judgement.

Well you'd think for a consultant cardiologist and a GP they would, but I have to question this. Based on the fact that they were out getting p!$$ed every night of the holiday, leaving their kids in the apartment, combined with some of the videos that have been released. Did you notice on the video of the children climbing the stairs to the aircraft, when Madeleine slipped over on the steps not one of them went to help her? And the following video just before that, when after 12 seconds Gerry McCann scorns "F**k off" in front of all the children?



I certainly don't think they're as "goody two shoes" as they'd like people to think.
 
NAV20
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:41 pm

I've always wondered whether the issue of sedatives is possibly at the root of this business.

Overdosing a child on (unnecessary) sedatives - even if it resulted in death - would probably be classed as 'accidental death' in most circumstances.

But these guys are both doctors. They would (or should) have known the risks. If it was found that they had indeed done that, at the very least they'd have been 'struck off' - they might even have been charged with manslaughter.

[Edited 2007-09-11 05:42:46]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
7LBAC111
Topic Author
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 88):
I've always wondered whether the issue of sedatives is possibly at the root of this business.

Overdosing a child on (unnecessary) sedatives - even if it resulted in death - would probably be classed as 'accidental death' in most circumstances.

But these guys are both doctors.

Is there something in Medicine that says you cannot administer drugs to your own family, or something like that?

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
cornish
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:21 pm

Well a rather different question that is now being asked is how are they going to pay for these "celebrity" lawyers that they have hired to defend them. The campaign fund that people donated to was not for fighting a legal case but to help the search for their daughter. Now the situation is very different, and rightly or wrongly they are the suspects. Are they going to be blocked from using this money to pay for what will be VERY expensive lawyers ? i think they should be given the circumstances, whatever their innocence or guilt.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Banco
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 90):
Are they going to be blocked from using this money to pay for what will be VERY expensive lawyers ?

They came out and said the money will not be used to pay for any defence.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
7LBAC111
Topic Author
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:29 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 90):
Are they going to be blocked from using this money to pay for what will be VERY expensive lawyers ?

The same lawyers who represented General Pinochet.....

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:30 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6988485.stm

This will never ever go to trial without a body.
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cornish
Posts: 7651
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 91):
They came out and said the money will not be used to pay for any defence.

Ah ok - no problem then. I thought that would probably be the case, but hadn't heard anything definitive on it.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cumulus
Posts: 1003
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:09 pm

And why did the other children not wake when the Police removed them from the apartment? Sedated?

Something stinks with all this.......
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I don't know why that makes it a story of public importance. Is this person famous?



Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 12):
If they all got as much media attention as Madeleine, we wouldn't be hearing about anything else.



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 14):
Probably rich.

What is worth mentioning is that Madeleine's trust fund have grown huge, in to the million mark thanks to media, and the parents now wants to use it. Hm..............  scratchchin 
But ok, nothing proven yet.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
NAV20
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 89):
Is there something in Medicine that says you cannot administer drugs to your own family, or something like that

Really don't see how you could manage to quote from my post without having read it, 7LBAC11?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 88):
Overdosing a child on (unnecessary) sedatives
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
7LBAC111
Topic Author
Posts: 2427
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 97):

Really don't see how you could manage to quote from my post without having read it, 7LBAC11?

Woah there buster! What on earth do you mean? I was asking the question if family members, who are doctors, are permitted to adminisiter drugs within the guidelines of their profession. Whats the problem....


7L

[Edited 2007-09-11 14:03:12]
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
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RE: Madeline McCann -Mother A Suspect!

Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 98):
Whats the problem....

The problem is, 7L, that you don't appear to have noticed the words 'overdosing' and 'unnecessary.'

As far as I can work out, Gerry McCann apparently admitted early on that they did sometimes give the kids sedatives, after the police found a package of them in the apartment; but both parents have subsequently denied that they administered any to the children that particular night.

I was pointing out that, if the allegations that Madeleine died as a result of the unwise and/or unnecessary use of sedatives ever turn out to be true, the McCanns have more to lose than ordinary parents. Specifically, whatever else happens, their medical careers will be over.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci

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