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RJdxer
Topic Author
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Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:18 am

The thing that strikes me most about these pictures are not the ones after the crash but the ones taken just before. It looks as if the driver is becoming astonished at something. I understand that his blood/alcohol level tested well above the legal limit but how much did having flashes going off in his face contribute to the accident if these were indeed taken in the tunnel just moments before the crash. Even sober would you not be terribly distracted by camera flashes going off in your face while driving at night in a tunnel? I hadn't thought much about the papparazzi other than they were in the area but if they were in front of the car and taking pictures with flashes, shame on them, they may not have directly caused the crash but no one can say they didn't contribute to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5
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LAXspotter
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:29 pm

is it suggesting that Paparazzi were there right before the impact taking pictures with heavy duty flashes?
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
jafa39
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:34 pm

It looks to me as if someone was way too close and the flash may well have distracted the driver....drunk or sober the hardware and vicinity necessary to get those pics would have been a major hazard to navigation.

All conspiracies aside I can't help feeling that without the press there may not have been a crash. One question though, looking at the back seats....would Diana and Dodi have survived if they had been wearing seatbelts????
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Farcry
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:32 pm

Are Diana and Dodi dead? Is it all a cover-up so that they could just 'disappear'? Was it all planned? Look at the first picture from the OPs link.

According to the 'paper' it is;"The unmistakeable blonde head of Diana seen between her bodyguard Trevor Rees Jones and chauffeur Henri Paul."

Unmistakeable? How so? Of course. She's the only blonde in the World. Never thought of that.

Come on people. They are alive and well and living in ?????????.

Good luck to them IMO.

Money talks and so does politics.

Enough already.
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:41 pm

This one looks good. A surprised drunk driver and non-seatbelted blonde in the back seat.

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:57 pm

From this angle, the crash looks completely unsurvivable:





Yet from this angle, one can see why it's so often said that she probably would've survived had she been wearing a seatbelt-- the rear seats are barely touched by the crash:

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:19 pm

Quoting Farcry (Reply 3):

I really hope that's a joke.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
cumulus
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:50 pm

The official Coroners Website here:-

http://www.scottbaker-inquests.gov.uk/index.htm

Does make interesting reading.........

It would be nice after this inquest is complete if they would just leave her alone...............
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:18 pm

What is a Coroner's task? What is an "inquest"?

I am a total zero at English Law.

Why this second "trial"? Is this upon Mohammad AlFayed's request?
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Stealthz
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 5):
From this angle, the crash looks completely unsurvivable:

It does, as the damage around the front is extensive, but designed to be as it absorbs the impact energy.

The second photo shows the passenger compartment relatively intact and with little intrusion, especially in the back seat(and remember the only survivor was the front seat passenger).

Carelessness or thinking seatbelts were for those less important or something had more to do with their deaths than the flashes of the paparazzi( even in the unlikely event of those being found contributory to the crash)
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 9):
Carelessness or thinking seatbelts were for those less important or something had more to do with their deaths than the flashes of the paparazzi( even in the unlikely event of those being found contributory to the crash)

I've always wondered why people in limos never wear seatbelts. Blue blood is flows red once you get thrown through the sunroof or you get impaled on those booze bottles or glass partition window.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
jetstar
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:52 am

If I remember correctly, Diana’s death was caused by her impacting on the back of the front seat. When the car hit the pillar, because she was not wearing her seatbelt she hit the seat back at almost the same speed the vehicle was going when it hit the pillar. This impact tore the main blood vessels from the heart, basically she internally bled to death The only way she could have been saved was to operate on her almost immediately.

Also from what I read the paramedics did not rush her immediately to the emergency room, they took their time and tried to revive her in the ambulance, even stopping enroute to the hospital to work on her, which is the way the French paramedics work. In the US the ambulance would speed to the nearest hospital and let the emergency room doctors handle it.

Not wearing seatbelts while seated in the back seat of any car is more dangerous as not wearing them in the front seat, in the front seat you have air bags to cushion you, in the back seat you hit front seatback. In New York City they average about one death a year in taxi cab accidents from the passenger sitting in the back seat hitting the protective glass partition.

New York Mets pitcher Tom Glavin had his front teeth knocked out from hitting the partition in a NYC taxi he was riding in a few years ago rear ended another car, and another Mets pitcher Duanne Sanchez separated his shoulder in another taxi accident in Florida last year and needed surgery. In Connecticut last year a passenger in a limo was killed when the limo he was in rear ended a truck on I-95 and he impacted the front seat, Guess what, none of them was wearing a seatbelt.

My wife and I always buckle up when ever we get into the rear seat of any vehicle.
 
Kay
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:13 am

Did anyone else think "are these pillars nastily placed or what??"

No this is not a joke. Road edge barriers have a shape, when possible, that will let cars slide on them and not "catch" on and decelerate to zero killing everybody on board.

I'm not sure I've seen pillars placed so dangerously in tunnels very often (but I may be wrong?). Of course, you do have the odd pillar, separator, guard rail edge, or whichever roadside obstacle that will have a car crash to a stand still, but a sequence of a hundred pillars is usually patched up with either a short concrete wall/fence or some simple guard rail. The tunnels I've seen in Austria, Germany, Italy (under the Aples), Switzerland, France (Provence), Monaco, and many others have been to the best of my knowledge, much better designed than that.

Some pictures of what I mean by safe tunnel:
http://buytaert.net/cache/images-san-francisco-2006-tunnel-700x700.jpg



The first thing I thought when the accident happened was "nasty pillars!" and whenever I go through that tunnel the impression comes back.
Don't get me wrong, not removing culpability neither from the paparazzi nor the drunk driver. But has anyone been wondering how pillars like that make it to public roads? (and stay that way after a high profile accident like that?)

Kay
 
babybus
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:52 am

So out all those photographers not one of them took any pics of the car careering into the pillar? Yeah..sure?

On a very busy road and a tiny tunnel a car can travel over 50mph? Umm....

We will never know the whole story.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting Kay (Reply 12):

Different countries, different standards, and cost is also a factor. Installing crash barriers may have been over the budget, or maybe they will be installed in the future. Here in Portugal many highways have the on and off ramp as the same lane, meaning cars joining the highway have to accelerate and cross those decelerating to get off. Totally unsafe and stupid design, but cheaper to build probably.

I agree with those of you who said that seatbelts are there for a reason. Whether they would have survived or not is not certain, but their chances of doing so would have increased exponentially. As would not using the legally impaired driver.

I honestly do not see the point of this inquest for the simple reason that regardless of the outcome, some people (eg Mohammed El Fayed) will never be satisfied. It is just an excuse for a media circus with some never before seen pictures etc etc. Waste of taxpayers money.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
RJdxer
Topic Author
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
This one looks good. A surprised drunk driver and non-seatbelted blonde in the back seat.

And thinking back the the orginal story line, didn't they day the body gaurd was the only one to survive because he was wearing his seatbelt? I don't see the shoulder belt but maybe I am just missing it.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 9):
Carelessness or thinking seatbelts were for those less important or something had more to do with their deaths than the flashes of the paparazzi( even in the unlikely event of those being found contributory to the crash)

Ok, what are the chances of hitting the pillar if you don't have a bunch of papparazzi trying to snap pictures of you with flashes, at night, in a tunnel, driving very close, versus no papparazzi and no flashes, and just ordinary traffic around you? They died because they didn't have their seatbelts on, they didn't crash because they didn't have their seatbelts on.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:19 pm

I believe this is a Coroner's Inquest, a special court proceeding to determine death and who could be charged if criminal acts may have caused it.
I have always been disturbed by the poor decisions made by everybody, especially the bodyguard that night. Princess Diana was always at extraordinary risk of terror or nutcase attacks by the IRA or other groups. The Paparazzi added substantially to that risk in trying to do their unnecessary reach for big bucks for pictures of Diana. I also am concerned that their presence could be hiding a person or persons who might do an attack on her. Their own stupid actions unfortunately required evasive driving by a person to be thoroughly skilled and 100% sober.
Dodi's father, via the hotel corporation, owned and operated the vehicle used that night and supplied the driver who he apparently approved. In the USA, the hotel would have been sued for many millions on their liability as provided the car and driver. He apparently chose the driver and car so he surely deserves some blame.
The driver should have declined driving as he knew he wasn't in a physical condition to drive that night.
The bodyguard should have made sure there an anti-terror trained and 100% sober driver was available at all times for his charges and if not available, then everybody would stay in the hotel until an appropriate driver was available.
All in that car should have been wearing a seat belt and the bodyguard should have ordered that.
The driver shouldn't have been driving that fast above the speed limit (probably 60-70 kms/36-42 mph) in the tunnel, although visiting the area a few months after the 'accident', it seems few drivers do drive at or under the speed limit.
The Paparazzi shouldn't have put the people in that car as well as all around them at risk with such reckless driving and all of them should have been arrested and charged with reckless driving causing a death and hopefully end up with long jail terms.
The design of the tunnel road was not uncommon, it allows water drainage, access to all of the road from either direction to the other and so on. In the USA, I have found where opposite direction lanes are in close proximity, shaped concrete 'Jersey Barriers' are put between the lanes to prevent vehicles from entering the other lane and deflect a vehicle bank into it's original lane.
Perhaps most of all, the general public shouldn't have been so nosy and concerned about Princess Diana's life and put her at risk.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 15):
They died because they didn't have their seatbelts on, they didn't crash because they didn't have their seatbelts on.

I think that was the point was making, whatever the reason for the crash.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
TheCol
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:43 pm

Geez, let the dead rest in peace already. How many more of these inquests does the royal family, and the rest of us, have to endure?
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:44 pm

Quoting Kay (Reply 12):
The first thing I thought when the accident happened was "nasty pillars!" and whenever I go through that tunnel the impression comes back.
Don't get me wrong, not removing culpability neither from the paparazzi nor the drunk driver. But has anyone been wondering how pillars like that make it to public roads?

Ultimately they are there to hold the road/structures above the tunnel up and, there comes a point where you just have to accept that there will be crashes by a certain tiny percentage of road users. You cannot say that the risk is not presented to the driver, the pillars being very large and blatantly obvious and not in the path of the driver unless they are out of control. Then there are of course the crashes which have potentially occurred as a result of an accident, possibly (although not proven) as the Diana crash. Trouble is, there are so many similar circumstances in which a freak accident could also happen that you can't keep patching everything up in crash barriers, as people will still have accidents and die. You might think it wrong, but at the end of the day it's just not worth the cost for the number of lives which might be saved.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
NAV20
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:20 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 13):
We will never know the whole story.

We just might - if they put Fayed himself, or some of his close advisers, on the stand, and somehow get the truth out of them. The inquest is finally beginning to get at the truth - especially now that they have film of Henri Paul tipping off the photographers, and signalling to them to get ready.

For the record, it was nothing but a publicity stunt gone wrong. It was decided that "Wild Chase Through Darkened Streets" would look better in the next day's newspapers than just "Couple Spend Quiet Night In Hotel." It was all cooked up by Fayed and Dodi on the phone.

The professional chauffeur couldn't be expected to drive as fast as required, so Henri Paul was called back (from the bar where he'd spent the evening) to brief selected journalists and do the driving. It was easy to stand the official chauffeur down as Fayed owned both the hotel and the hire car agency,
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Banco
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
How many more of these inquests does the royal family, and the rest of us, have to endure?

The reason it's taken so bloody long is because that idiot Fayed has refused to accept the multiple police investigations and prevented the inquest taking place until now.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:09 pm

Looking at the pics for the first time, I believe Princess D could have easily survived the crash if she was wearing her seatbelt. It's an unfortunate and preventable death, even with the driver being intoxicated, she could have walked away from it. On the other hand, some of those first pictures show that the photographers were right in front of them with really powerful flashes. That is extremely dangerous for the driver. Not acceptable at all. From this day forward, I equally blame the photographers and the driver as the cause of the crash.

Aeroflot777
 
Stealthz
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:06 am

The television News here in Sydney tonight carried an item about the Palace's displeasure at the pursuit of Prince William by those evil papparazzi after a recent night out with Kate Middleton.
Well if people, many of whom are outraged at the photographers, stopped buying the women's checkout magazines and tabloids the paps would stop pursuing.
OK having said that... the TV video showed the 2nd in line to the throne showing the same arrogance and disregard for common sense that killed his mother! Put your seat belt on Wills or you will be reunited with her sooner than you expect!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
NAV20
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:53 am

To an extent (not complaining!  Smile) the heading may be inaccurate, to the extent that the first photograph shown may not have been taken 'just before' the crash - but could have been taken at any stage of the journey (since the car is reported to have stopped several times at traffic lights).

The other points I made earlier (the change of plan after a phone call, Henri Paul behaving oddly and jokingly challenging the paparazzi ('Tonight you won't catch us') are amply documented in the offical French investigation report - ('Accident Mortel de la Circulation Date 31/8/97 Heure 00 h 30') - and in various pretty comprehensive chronological summaries, including:-

http://www.wethepeople.la/chron.htm

Pretty plain, IMO, that it wasn't some sort of far-fetched government-inspired assassination attempt. Just a publicity stunt which went wrong because a couple of ordinary cars, travelling at or below the speed limit, got in the way of an over-confident, speeding drunk driver at the wrong moment...........

". . . the slow moving vehicle witnesses recalled may have been a gray Citroen BX, whose driver was questioned several hours after the accident. This young man reported hearing the squeal of brakes behind him as he drove west through the tunnel at a moderate pace. In his rearview mirror he saw a black Mercedes skidding toward him at high speed. He accelerated to avoid a rear-end collision and saw the Mercedes hit the central pillar, then spin into the opposite wall. According to this witness, whose car showed no accident damage, there was no other vehicle behind him and the Mercedes." (Time, Oct. 13, 1997, pp. 53-4)
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
rlwynn
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 11):
Also from what I read the paramedics did not rush her immediately to the emergency room, they took their time and tried to revive her in the ambulance, even stopping enroute to the hospital to work on her, which is the way the French paramedics work. In the US the ambulance would speed to the nearest hospital and let the emergency room doctors handle it.

In France as many countries, the Doctors are in the ambulance.
I can drive faster than you
 
tsaord
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:52 am

What happened that night was supposed to happen and couldn't have happened any other way. Meaning, when it is your time to die situations will come into play to cause it. Look for people to blame, say this could have been prevented, whatever make the world safer for other people. I'm sick of this who killed Diana crap. The good die young, isn't that the phrase? It was her time to go and some people, rightfully so, can't let go even after 10 years. You would think her children would be leading the inquiry charge but they have moved on in some way, the world and media should to.

I was 14 when she died, I watched her funeral and it broke my heart. Let her rest in peace!

carry on!
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Pic From Just Before And After Diana's Crash

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 11):
they took their time and tried to revive her in the ambulance, even stopping enroute to the hospital to work on her, which is the way the French paramedics work. In the US the ambulance would speed to the nearest hospital and let the emergency room doctors handle it.

This is actually correct. A patient must be stabilized before being transported, else he or she will die on route. This is standard procedure, even in the USA (see flight for life). What often occurs is that the ambulance is travelling in the US without a physician, thus the need for immediate transfer to the ER. But the procedure was correct - so much so that she only died after a few hours in the hospital and in surgery, not on the spot.

Alex
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