As some of you may know Iraq and China have a $100M deal for arms in place and the US is none to happy about it. Now given that the US has already sold close to $2B in arms to Iraq since its rebirth without Saddam why is there such a fuss? Surely the capitalist mentality of the USA should understand that the right price and product should win out?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...xml=/news/2007/10/05/wchina105.xml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2007/10/03/AR2007100302464.html
Your thoughts...
YOWza
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quote: Mr Gates admitted he shared the fears of military analysts who warned that Chinese weapons could fall into the hands of insurgents. |
Thats rich, considering the recent admissions that large amounts of US supplied weapons are unaccounted for...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/world/middleeast/30reconstruct.html
http://cachef.ft.com/cms/s/0/18fd9294-440a-11dc-90ca-0000779fd2ac.html
I wonder if he is speaking from experience?
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
Since China is financing the american war debt over Iraq anyway, it's only fitting they take some of the profit as well... 
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
China is taking over the world on armenants, destroying even more jobs throughout the world including the USA with their near slave labor costs. The PRC has no morals as to who they sell to either, never had, they will sell to even the worst thugs in the world, including enemies of the USA like al-Queda and sell to both sides in wars throughout Asia and Africa, making things much worse in the world. All they care about is making money. The Iraqi government hates the USA presence there, the PRC sourced weapons are a lot cheaper, so it is no wonder Iraq is buying such weapons from China instead of the USA.
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- ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting YOWza (Thread starter): As some of you may know Iraq and China have a $100M deal for arms in place and the US is none to happy about it. Now given that the US has already sold close to $2B in arms to Iraq since its rebirth without Saddam why is there such a fuss? Surely the capitalist mentality of the USA should understand that the right price and product should win out? |
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The problem is that the USA-specialists know precisely well that the Iraqi government, after the US withdrawal, will buy their military stuff again in Britain and France and Russia, that the Iraqis again will buy Peugeot cars, and that oil companies like Total, Elf-Erap, Agip and Royal Dutch Shell will regain their previous position. It is obvious that the purchase you mention is a kind of test-run.
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| Quoting Moo (Reply 1): Chinese weapons could fall into the hands of insurgents. |
he possibly prefers American weapons falling into the hands of rebels
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- CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
US$100m buys you, what, two Flankers?
Whoopie-do.
Its nothing.
Whoopie-do.
Its nothing.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting YOWza (Thread starter): As some of you may know Iraq and China have a $100M deal for arms in place and the US is none to happy about it. Now given that the US has already sold close to $2B in arms to Iraq since its rebirth without Saddam why is there such a fuss? Surely the capitalist mentality of the USA should understand that the right price and product should win out? |
"Do as I say, not as I do".
I guess the US expected Iraq to buy American as a sign of gratitude for being "liberated".
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
I sometimes think perhaps I should move to Europe. The UK maybe.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5): US$100m buys you, what, two Flankers? |
Or 1/2 million AK's.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
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- connies4ever
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3): The PRC has no morals as to who they sell to either, never had, they will sell to even the worst thugs in the world, including enemies of the USA like al-Queda |
Exsqueeze me ? OBL was America's boy in the 80's with his prototype AQ organisation fighting the Soviets. Paid for and armed by. If you want to line up countries with no morals about who they deal with ...
Oh, and then there was this business about buying Iranian weapons with drug money. Hmmmmm......
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 12): Exsqueeze me ? OBL was America's boy in the 80's with his prototype AQ organisation fighting the Soviets. Paid for and armed by. If you want to line up countries with no morals about who they deal with ... Oh, and then there was this business about buying Iranian weapons with drug money. Hmmmmm...... |
Come on - you're not supposed to actually remember that!
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5): US$100m buys you, what, two Flankers? Whoopie-do. Its nothing. |
That's what I was thinking.
| Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11): Or 1/2 million AK's. |
If there are AK's involved in the deal (and I'd certainly think so), at least you have to give them credit for buying some of the better quality ones available. Too bad my credit is not good with China, I'd like to pick up several thousand and sell them here in the US. The Chinese AK's are fetching a premium price right now.
| Quoting N710PS (Reply 9): I sometimes think perhaps I should move to Europe. The UK maybe. |
I think you should, too. Let me know where I can send a donation to help the process along, the sooner the better.
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting Klaus (Reply 13): OBL was America's boy in the 80's with his prototype AQ organisation fighting the Soviets. Paid for and armed by. If you want to line up countries with no morals about who they deal with ... Oh, and then there was this business about buying Iranian weapons with drug money. Hmmmmm...... Come on - you're not supposed to actually remember that! silly |
He is from Canada, not from the USA, and THERE they CAN remember that
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
I did not mean that to come out as I hate the USA. Do not get me wrong here I love the USA but the bottom line is that no matter where you go industry in general is turning to shit and this is a great example of why. I could live in the UK with my education and actually make a living where as here in the states no matter what you do you have to worry about going to work and reading in a company newsletter that you are being outsourced. That hurts a great deal. Someone pointed out it can be done cheaper elsewhere and it will be. At least in Europe they still maintain some pride in themselves. I do not blame it all on price though. Some of it is because many Americans are some of the most lazy people I have ever met. But that is for another time. It is no suprise the weapons come from elsewhere than the USA. All we would do is rip them off is the sad but true fact of the matter.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting N710PS (Reply 16): Do not get me wrong here I love the USA but the bottom line is that no matter where you go industry in general is turning to shit and this is a great example of why. I could live in the UK with my education and actually make a living where as here in the states no matter what you do you have to worry about going to work and reading in a company newsletter that you are being outsourced. |
Well, Britain is actually one of the worst counter-examples in Europe for that. It has seen a massive de-industrialization in recent decades. There are multiple reasons for that, but in recent years not being part of the Euro-Zone has increasingly turned away industrial investors and more or less forced Britain to develop a somewhat lopsided dependency on other sectors. The dangers of which are beginning to become apparent now.
| Quoting N710PS (Reply 16): At least in Europe they still maintain some pride in themselves. |
Not in Britain, they don't!
The european project is mainly happening outside of Britain, and it's not for lack of trying on our part.
But anyway - the USA right now seem to be in the exhausted and disillusioned low near the end of the (mostly failed) Bush era. Not a nice place to be in some respects, but on the other hand your country has always had a great capacity to get things right again. Nothing is really broken beyond repair, and I have no doubt that you'll rebound and feel great again. There is really no fundamental reason to doubt that!
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5): Its nothing. |
Yeah, probably more Type-56-2s.
| Quote: "The capacity of the factories here are not enough to provide us quickly with all that we need, even for the army," the newspaper quoted Talabani, who is visiting the United States, as saying. "One of our demands is to accelerate the delivery of the arms to the Iraqi army". |
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
I don't see a problem with it. Less Chinese weapons going to terrorists and warlords.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20): hardly. Few investors are turned away by the hostility of many Swiss people against the Euro |
"Hostility" is not the matter. Unimpeded access to the Euro-Zone is. And neither Britain nor Switzerland have it, so industrial manufacturers often shy away from putting up their european manufacturing plants where they'd have to live with additional uncertainties such as currency fluctuation when they can have it easier within the Euro-Zone.
Sometimes other factors can compensate, but often they don't. Hence the exodus of manufacturing industries from Britain. I've never looked into Switzerland in that respect, so all I know is that the costs of doing business there tend to be substantially higher than elsewhere (just like other costs).
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- ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting Klaus (Reply 21): their european manufacturing plants where they'd have to live with additional uncertainties such as currency fluctuation when they can have it easier within the Euro-Zone. |
You can have your accounts inside Switzerland in Euros, and as Switzerland is now joining the Schengen-agrrement and the Dublin-accords, previous hindrances are falling. The costs are relatively high, but co-operative taxation-laws and social-costs which are lower than those in Germany make things fairly attractive.
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 22): You can have your accounts inside Switzerland in Euros, and as Switzerland is now joining the Schengen-agrrement and the Dublin-accords, previous hindrances are falling. The costs are relatively high, but co-operative taxation-laws and social-costs which are lower than those in Germany make things fairly attractive. |
The costs are unpredictable since they're in swiss Francs (or in Pounds in the case of Britain), on top of being relatively high to begin with. And manufacturers like predictability, especially when their margins aren't all that high.
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 24): As the Swiss Franc in relation to the Euro has gone down quite considerably in the past few months, the costs in Euro have become rather lower |
And they'll rise again, probably at the most inconvenient moment.
Many german manufacturers have tried to exploit opportunities for lower costs abroad (mainly in Asia or in the eastern european countries), but a rising number of them is now terminating their "outsourcing" again due to unreliability of the respective infrastructure (probably not an issue in Switzerland) and due to the overall level of overhead and the complications involved.
Being right in the same market where your customers are does provide advantages which compete with presumable savings abroad. So why should a large japanese car manufacturer, for instance, go to Britain or Switzerland and still be on outside of most of its actual market when they could got to the mainland or to Ireland instead? High base costs plus currency fluctuations on top wouldn't be what I'd want when my margins were already low in a highly competitive market to begin with...
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 26): while Switzerland is still outside the Eurozone, it is ideally located in between Baden-Wuerttemberg, Vorarlberg/Tirol, Venetia/Lombardia/Piemonte and Burgundy/Savoy. And in contrast to Great Britain, Switzerland is a Schengen-country. |
Yeah, and it's doing well in many respects. But Schengen is only a part of what the common european market does for competitiveness. The Euro is also an important part, as are consistent regulations and thousands of smaller conveniences.
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28): most regulations in Switzerland are now fully adapted to the E.U., |
Doesn't matter that much when there are still organisational hurdles compared to doing business right within the target market.
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 28): and Switzerland offers many small "conveniences" not on offer in countries like Germany and France. |
Which need to be paid for as well. As far as I'm aware the overall cost level is still significantly higher than in Germany, let alone other parts of the EU.
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- ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting Klaus (Reply 29): I'm aware the overall cost level is still significantly higher than in Germany |
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You look at it country-wise, but forget that there is no part of Switzerland more than 40 minutes driving time away from a decent city. If you compare Zurich and Munich and Basel and Stuttgart you will see that the 4 cities are very similar
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| Quoting Klaus (Reply 29): organisational hurdles |
there may be organisational hurdles, but there also are organisational facilitations. You for instance can have your office in Zurich and the production inside Germany just half an hour away. A big French-Italian company has its big office in Geneva and the warehouse right across the border, some 2 kilometers away. A Zurich company producing calculators and such stuff, has its warehouse and production facilities in Jestettten and Lottstetten. In Basel/Mülhausen/Lörrach, people even can work TRInationally. And large bonded warehouse facilities in Zurich, Basel, Lausanne, Geneva and Lugano-Locarno enable people to have the merchandise around the corner but legally off-shore.
RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
Good job... but I'm still not buying anytime soon...! 
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- ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
| Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 32): the Bahnhofstrasse in Zürich is full of Germans who DO buy ............... whatever |
I can only guess - but I think I'd not buy there either!
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- airlinelover
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RE: Iraq Buys $100M In Arms From China
Geez.. Hope they watch out for excess lead in those weapons..
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply