Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

RJdxer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Just a way to say "thanks" for helping to clean up the record, Sandy Berger is now advising the Clinton campaign on foreign policy.

http://www.examiner.com/a-977346~He_...Clinton.html?cid=rss-Washington_DC

I wonder if Susan Mcdougal will get the job as bureau of prisons chief if Hillary gets elected or does her full pardon in the last days of the Bill Clinton presidency count as the pay off?

ANCFlyer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:17 pm

Yup, saw that this morning . . .

Berger - you all remember him - the guy that "claims" he didn't know he had classified documents in his drawers and socks when he stole them - is now on the Clinton Team. rotfl

What is he anyway, the Clinton version of Rove?

Oh wait - Rove was never convicted of anything . . . . Berger on the other hand, well - he paid his 'fine' and all's well with the world.

aloges · Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:20 pm

Sandy who...?

ANCFlyer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
Sandy who...?

Pres. Clinton's National Security Advisor

Here ya go my friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Berger

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/08/berger.sentenced/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16706-2005Mar31.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126428,00.html

I gotta laugh my ass off at the last one . . . . how can one think it's an honest mistake to stuff SECRET documents in your shoes?? Did Captain Kirk BEAM those documents into your socks Sandy??? What a crock . . .

deltagator · Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126428,00.html

I gotta laugh my ass off at the last one . . . . how can one think it's an honest mistake to stuff SECRET documents in your shoes??

Now Pep we all know that last link will get attacked since it came from FoxNews and apparently they are the Devil along with Foosball and Bobby Boucher's dad. Wink

Here are a couple of links where the same story is told in case they think that Fox made it all up.

Still no link from RTE so Yak42 still doesn't believe it happened. Wink

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...dent/2004-07-21-berger-kerry_x.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...9507EED8113AF932A15754C0A9629C8B63

http://www.acsa2000.org/bergerstepsdown.htm

seb146 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
What is he anyway, the Clinton version of Rove?

Oh wait - Rove was never convicted of anything . . . . Berger on the other hand, well - he paid his 'fine' and all's well with the world.

Yes, but.... When did Rove testify under oath? I don't recall that happening. That is the problem with this story: Berger was under oath and paid a price for his crime. So far, very few people in the Bush administration have been under oath. IMO, this is a good thing. With Mr. Berger's past, he will be under the micorscope and will have to work very hard to gain respect and trust that was lost before. Every Republican will be dreging up everything from the Clinton era that has already been paid for. Let's

RJdxer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
That is the problem with this story: Berger was under oath and paid a price for his crime.

And why was he under oath? Perhaps only because he was caught? I just find it hard to believe that Berger is the only person they could find to advise them on foreign policy matters.

CPH-R · Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:24 pm

Right, here's a proposal: If the Republicans can let the Sandy Berger thing go, the Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

cfalk · Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
Yes, but.... When did Rove testify under oath? I don't recall that happening.

Berger is a criminal. Rove is a highly effective political operator who has thwarted the Democrats at many turns. Democrats like to think that this itself is criminal.

But the fact is that Rove has not done anything wrong - at least nothing that has left the slightest trace of evidence.

Berger stole top secret documents after 9/11, and nobody except he knows what was stolen - they were the only copies. The supposition goes that they were documents concerning the counter-terrorism program in the Clinton era, and howsenior administration officials blocked counterterrorism mesures from being implemented, which would look pretty embarassing after 9/11. But nobody knows for sure.

aloges · Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Did Captain Kirk BEAM those documents into your socks Sandy?

As for the case, was he in the end sentenced for a felony or a misdemeanour? Wikipedia says it's the latter, but then it's Wikipedia. If that's the case, this should be a fairly minor issue playing nicely, as usual, into the hands of "political commentators". Wink

Oh sweet heavens, what would we watch to get worked up were it not for the political circus? Silly

767Lover · Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 7):
...Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

Why not? If it works for Marc Rich.... stirthepot

halls120 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 5):
With Mr. Berger's past, he will be under the micorscope and will have to work very hard to gain respect and trust that was lost before.

Sandy Berger is a criminal who should NEVER be allowed to work in the US government again.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 7):
Right, here's a proposal: If the Republicans can let the Sandy Berger thing go, the Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

Save this proposal for when someone tries to hire Scooter Libby for a government position.

Confuscius · Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:56 pm

Why not? If it works for Marc Rich....

Who was Marc Rich's lawyer?

I. Lewis Libby

crazy

aloges · Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11):
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 7):
Right, here's a proposal: If the Republicans can let the Sandy Berger thing go, the Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

Save this proposal for when someone tries to hire Scooter Libby for a government position.

A) adviser to a not-quite-yet nominee is not a government position, B) as far as I can tell, Berger was convicted of a misdemeanour and Libby was convicted of a felony (which was not commuted) - apples and oranges unless Wikipedia is wrong.

Falcon84 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:05 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 4):
Still no link from RTE so Yak42 still doesn't believe it happened.

That never gets old. Always cracks me up. rotfl

A non-story if I've ever heard one. So Beger is advising a candidate? Big deal.

RJdxer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
A non-story if I've ever heard one. So Beger is advising a candidate? Big deal.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 13):
B) as far as I can tell, Berger was convicted of a misdemeanour and Libby was convicted of a felony (which was not commuted) - apples and oranges unless Wikipedia is wrong.

There's another two I'm going to save since I'm pretty sure I won't have to wait too long before I hear either or both complaining about a gop candidates advisor.

Falcon84 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 15):
There's another two I'm going to save since I'm pretty sure I won't have to wait too long before I hear either or both complaining about a gop candidates advisor.

I could go back to the cast of dozens who advised Mr. Nixon in 1972......

aloges · Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 15):
There's another two I'm going to save since I'm pretty sure I won't have to wait too long before I hear either or both complaining about a gop candidates advisor.

Uh-huh.

Matters of importance... if you intend to follow me around, "smack that post back in my face", call me a hypocrite and start dancing, you'll notice sooner or later that I've been avoiding US politics mudslinging threads like the plague they are. Unless the political game in Washington, DC changes back from its current ridiculous hyper-partisan mode to functional(-ish), it's quite probably going to stay that way.

travelin man · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:04 pm

Wow. It must suck to be a Republican these days. Grasping at straws.

But, whatever makes yiou feel better.

Remember: "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

I'm sure America does.

huskyaviation · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
I could go back to the cast of dozens who advised Mr. Nixon in 1972......

And those individuals hadn't been convicted of anything until well after. Those people that were directly involved and/or convicted were never involved in politics again, they were pretty much politically radioactive, such as Krogh, Segretti, Chapin, Mitchell, Haldeman, Colson, and Ehrlichman.

Edit: spelling

[Edited 2007-10-08 16:06:33]

Falcon84 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 19):
And those individuals hadn't been convicted of anything until well after.

Splitting hairs there now. They were all criminals and served at the leisure of their ringleader. And if Sen. Clinton wants his advice on something, I don't see why she can't get it. Now, I'd have a huge problem if he were put in an official capacity if/when she's elected. But just to advice as a candidate, I don't think is a huge deal.

halls120 · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 13):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11):Quoting CPH-R (Reply 7):
Right, here's a proposal: If the Republicans can let the Sandy Berger thing go, the Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

Save this proposal for when someone tries to hire Scooter Libby for a government position.
A) adviser to a not-quite-yet nominee is not a government position, B) as far as I can tell, Berger was convicted of a misdemeanour and Libby was convicted of a felony (which was not commuted) - apples and oranges unless Wikipedia is wrong.

He stuffed classified documents into his socks to remove them from the National Archives. That he pled only to a misdemeanor in a plea bargain is irrelevant.

He stole classified documents from the National Archives.

When Mrs. Clinton is elected President, if she brings Berger into ANY government position, it will be a blunder of magnificent proportions.

Klima · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:23 pm

Sen. Clinton should realize that people attached to past administrations don't always offer the best advice in the long run.

Signed,
President George W. Bush

aloges · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
That he pled only to a misdemeanor in a plea bargain is irrelevant.

So the sentence somebody actually gets is irrelevant? You compared Berger to Libby, I pointed out that their sentences are very far from the same. Make of that what you want.

typo edited

[Edited 2007-10-08 16:43:43]

huskyaviation · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Splitting hairs there now. They were all criminals and served at the leisure of their ringleader.

By your analysis, that should go to show you the risk of having criminals involved with a presidential campaign. BTW, a lot of what went on occurred without Nixon's direction or knowledge.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
And if Sen. Clinton wants his advice on something, I don't see why she can't get it.

She can certainly get it anytime she wants. But having Sandy Berger on the campaign payroll is another thing. It is another example of a concept the Clintons just don't seem to ever understand--the appearance of impropriety can be just as damaging as the impropriety itself.

RJdxer · Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
I could go back to the cast of dozens who advised Mr. Nixon in 1972......

Typical lib response, has to be some sort of equanimity, "yeah, well your guy 35 years ago did this!", even if it isn't anywhere near the same vein.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 18):
Wow. It must suck to be a Republican these days. Grasping at straws.

But, whatever makes yiou feel better.

Remember: "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

I'm sure America does.

Wow, it must suck to be a democrat today. Having to run against someone who isn't even running. So devoid of new ideas that you have to hire a criminal to advise you of old ones.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Splitting hairs there now.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Now, I'd have a huge problem if he were put in an official capacity if/when she's elected. But just to advice as a candidate, I don't think is a huge deal.

And with those two backups statements, made after he accused the GOP of something that happened 3 decades ago, and isn't even relevant to the issue at hand, Falcon theoretically plunks his behind on the fence after having hedged his bet once again, yes another fine John Kerry moment brought to you by Falcon.

aloges · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 25):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Mr. Nixon in 1972......

Typical lib response (...)

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 18):
Wow. It must suck to be a Republican these days. Grasping at straws. (...)

Wow, it must suck to be a democrat today.

Someone please tell me this partisan nonsense will stop some day, and I don't mean just in a.net non_av. It's the equivalent of third graders bitching about who stole more candy.

[Edited 2007-10-08 17:05:19]

OU812 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Splitting hairs there now.

Drinking the Kool Aid again now are we. You're defending someone who should be in jail & have his security clearance revoked permanently. Yet, you are so quick to blast the entire GOP when single individuals are caught in unlawful circumstances that are at times very questionable & nothing more than partisan smear campaigns.

Falcon84,
Is Sandy Berger a criminal?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300005,00.html

Berger, who at first denied any wrong-doing, entered his guilty plea in April 2005 to a single charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. He later was fined $50,000 and sentenced to two years probation and 100 hours of community service. He also lost his security clearance for three years.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Now, I'd have a huge problem if he were put in an official capacity if/when she's elected

Well then, what about Bill Clinton? Wasn't he guilty of perjury? Yes! I'm sure Hilary will put him to work if elected!!! Talk about a culture of corruption! Hilary's not even elected yet, but already has 2 convicts in here corner!!! sarcastic

aloges · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 26):
Someone please tell me this partisan nonsense will stop some day

Quoting OU812 (Reply 27):

It couldn't have been put "better"... banghead

OU812 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:25 am

New information regarding Sandy Berger's theft of classified documents from the National Archives, which he later hid under a construction trailer so he could retrieve them at a later date.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070110-120727-4365r.htm

Damage from Berger's theft understated, Davis says

By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
January 10, 2007

Samuel R. Berger's theft of documents from the National Archives compromised national security "much more than originally disclosed" and resulted in "incomplete and misleading" information being given to the September 11 commission, says the former chairman of the House Government Reform Committee.

Mr. Davis said the investigation found that the full extent of Mr. Berger's document removal can never be known and, consequently, the Justice Department could not assure the September 11 commission -- which was investigating intelligence and security failures -- it received all the documents to which Mr. Berger had access.

"We now know Mr. Berger left stolen highly classified documents at a construction site to avoid detection," he said. "We know Mr. Berger insisted on privacy at times to allow him to conceal documents that he stole."

Quoting OU812 (Reply 27):
Falcon84,
Is Sandy Berger a criminal?

lobster · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 18):
Wow. It must suck to be a Republican these days. Grasping at straws

And the same thing could be said about the Democraptic party, oh wait sorry, Democratic Party.

aloges · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:32 am

Quote:
Damage from Berger's theft understated, Davis says

Wow... so a Republican says the damage a Democrat has done has been understated... what's the world come to? sarcastic

halls120 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 23):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
That he pled only to a misdemeanor in a plea bargain is irrelevant.
So the sentence somebody actually gets is irrelevant? You compared Berger to Libby, I pointed out that their sentences are very far from the same. Make of that what you want.

Libby didn't stuff classified documents into his socks while at the National Archives, walking out with them. Libby isn't serving in any government position that I'm aware of.

Why not stay focused on what Berger did? Oh, I know, it doesn't suit your argument, right?

Halcyon · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:36 am

The man is a thief and deceiver. He shouldn't be advising anyone. It's to the Clinton's discredit that they are letting him, period. Doesn't matter that their last name is Clinton or that they happen to be Democrats. Shouldn't be tolerated anyway.

aloges · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
Libby isn't serving in any government position that I'm aware of.

I'll

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
stay focused on (...) Berger

and repeat that he is in no government position whatsoever, not even close to one. Does that

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
suit your argument

or does it not?

Anyway... I'll let the mud fly without getting in its way.

Falcon84 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 27):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Now, I'd have a huge problem if he were put in an official capacity if/when she's elected

Well then, what about Bill Clinton? Wasn't he guilty of perjury

Damn, you bring up a great point, Van Halen. I didn't think you had it in you. Smile

I think in either case, it would be up to the Senate, since they can turn down any nominee. Based on that record, neither one should be appointed to anything, if you think about it.

ANCFlyer · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
So Beger is advising a candidate?

Falcon . . . you'd crap yourself is Libby was any Repubs team . . . now wouldn't you.

It's no big deal to you because, well . . . Berger is a Liberal Democrat, not a Conservative Republican.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 18):
Remember: "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Which has absofrackinlutely NOTHING to do with this topic. Period. Dot. End.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 26):
Someone please tell me this partisan nonsense will stop some day,

I can tell you, but I swore I'd never lie to my friends. silly

huskyaviation · Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 27):
Well then, what about Bill Clinton? Wasn't he guilty of perjury? Yes! I'm sure Hilary will put him to work if elected!!!

I don't think Hillary is allowed by law to appoint Bill to anything. I believe Congress passed a law to prevent nepotistic appointments a long time ago (after JFK appointed RFK to AG), around 1967.

OU812 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 37):
I don't think Hillary is allowed by law to appoint Bill to anything. I believe Congress passed a law to prevent nepotistic appointments a long time ago (after JFK appointed RFK to AG), around 1967.

Then how did Hilary get appointed [I know she wasn't] for Hilary care back in the 90s? See what I'm saying?

Falcon84 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 36):
Falcon . . . you'd crap yourself is Libby was any Repubs team . . . now wouldn't you.

Not really. Again, advising a candidate is one thing; being appointed to a government position is another. I don't have a huge problem with the first. The second gives me pause.

halls120 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 34):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):stay focused on (...) Berger
and repeat that he is in no government position whatsoever, not even close to one. Does that

Ok, I see you've been caught up in the partisan crap that invariably erupts on threads like this.

First of all, recall that I previously noted that I hoped Mrs. Clinton wasn't so stupid as to be considering appointing Berger to a position.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
When Mrs. Clinton is elected President, if she brings Berger into ANY government position, it will be a blunder of magnificent proportions.

However, as Husky points out, bringing him on an as unpaid adviser is pretty stupid in its own right.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 24):
She can certainly get it anytime she wants. But having Sandy Berger on the campaign payroll is another thing. It is another example of a concept the Clintons just don't seem to ever understand--the appearance of impropriety can be just as damaging as the impropriety itself.

And if Rudy or any other republican was to bring Libby on as an unpaid adviser, that would be just as stupid.

huskyaviation · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 38):
Then how did Hilary get appointed [I know she wasn't] for Hilary care back in the 90s? See what I'm saying?

That was a presidential commission or a presidential task force IIRC, not a federal appointment.

OU812 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
Not really. Again, advising a candidate is one thing; being appointed to a government position is another. I don't have a huge problem with the first. The second gives me pause.

Falcon84,
It's not the end of the world. The biased media will say very little about this issue [Sandy Berger] while jumping all over sen.-Criag who BTW is still paying dividends for people such as yourself & the DNC. So, it's not all that bad! wink

Falcon84 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 42):
It's not the end of the world. The biased media will say very little about this issue [Sandy Berger] while jumping all over sen.-Criag who BTW is still paying dividends for people such as yourself & the DNC.

What Craig is doing is his own fault. His flip-flopping on this thing has killed him, and is really making the GOP squirm, and I don't blame them. Again, there's a difference between someone actively in the government who has the record, and someone who is only in an advisory roll for a candidate.

If you look at the three men mentioned here-Clinton, Libby and Berger, I'd have less problem with Libby and Clinton being given a government job than I would Berger. Berger, whether intentionally or not, did a huge no-no. Libby and Clinton, in my view, werer guilty of much more minor offenses. I think they'd be given a mulligan before Sandy.

OU812 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 43):
Libby and Clinton, in my view, werer guilty of much more minor offenses. I think they'd be given a mulligan before Sandy.

Falcon84,
Bill [Slick Willy] Clinton in Berger-Gate was nothing more than the Godfather! Who ordered Berger to remove damaging documents from the nations archives to save Clinton's legacy! Berger took the fall, Clinton's name was spared!

Mission Accomplished!

Falcon84 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 44):

And, you know this how? You have a link?

And better watch using the words "Mission Accomplished". They're words that make Republicans cringe nowadays. Big grin

RJdxer · Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I think in either case, it would be up to the Senate, since they can turn down any nominee.

The Senate does not have to confirm advisers to the President unless they serve as members of the Cabinet. Karl Rove was never confirmed to anything by the Senate.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 37):
I don't think Hillary is allowed by law to appoint Bill to anything.

She would not be allowed to appoint him to a Cabinet level position but she certainly can appoint him to oversee pet projects as he did her for health care.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
Again, advising a candidate is one thing; being appointed to a government position is another. I don't have a huge problem with the first. The second gives me pause.

That picket fence must hurt something awful. If he is in her corner this early it's not for just the campaign. If she wins he's going to expect to be carried on. A continuation of the payoff.

Falcon84 · Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 46):
The Senate does not have to confirm advisers to the President unless they serve as members of the Cabinet. Karl Rove was never confirmed to anything by the Senate.

Uh, that's what I was talking about, RJ.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 46):
Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 37):
I don't think Hillary is allowed by law to appoint Bill to anything.

She would not be allowed to appoint him to a Cabinet level position but she certainly can appoint him to oversee pet projects as he did her for health care.

She has said that she would use him as a roving ambassador for the government. That would be ideal for the interests of the U.S., since he has many worldwide contacts, and is well received by many around the world.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 46):
That picket fence must hurt something awful.

I don't see the firebreak here, RJ. Someone advising a candidate is one thing; someone being nominated for a cabinet position is quite another. The first is nothing; the second would see a huge fight.

allstarflyer · Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 7):
If the Republicans can let the Sandy Berger thing go, the Democrats might just let the Scooter Libby sentence commute slip into the veil of the night, alright?

Imprison them both. Then toss the key into the Potomac.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 12):
Who was Marc Rich's lawyer?

I. Lewis Libby

Quoting Aloges (Reply 26):
Someone please tell me this partisan nonsense will stop some day, and I don't mean just in a.net non_av. It's the equivalent of third graders bitching about who stole more candy.

Turn on your TV, kick back and enjoy the next few months of Meet The Press and every other show dedicated to political prizefighting.

Flighty · Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
But the fact is that Rove has not done anything wrong - at least nothing that has left the slightest trace of evidence.

Correct, Rove did not probably break the law. But, he did a different thing. He undermined the Constitution and the principles of the founding fathers. He decided he could piss all over their graves and the blood of veterans, since he was so clever. But, it wasn't illegal. It is amazing the things you can do without breaking the law. In fact, those things look just exactly like the lying, stealing and killing you can do when you DO break the law. But people like Rove are very careful. They need to be stopped, but the law can't stop them.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Berger stole top secret documents after 9/11, and nobody except he knows what was stolen - they were the only copies.

Berger is definitely a low-class criminal. He should still be in jail for that. And they could interrogate him by maybe electrocuting him in the balls. Just an idea.

[Edited 2007-10-08 20:15:18]

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