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OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
And better watch using the words "Mission Accomplished". They're words that make Republicans cringe nowadays.

Cringe?
Can only speak for myself. However, I find it morally reprehensible that some ,such as yourself, would doubt our military's ability to complete their mission.[Which was exactly what our military did-they completed major military operations-which BTW captured Saddam & killed his 2 sons] It's also upsetting that you would take such pleasure believing such non-sense re. our military. So, I do cringe, but only when someone uses that term in such a callow manner?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
And, you know this how? You have a link?

Why can't we-the American people rent The Path to 911?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1189...0553123556.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

A Real 9/11 Cover-Up
By CYRUS NOWRASTEH
September 11, 2007; Page A18

A year ago today, ABC ran the docudrama I wrote, "The Path to 9/11," at the peak of a firestorm of political protest designed to discredit and shut down the miniseries before it aired. Left-leaning pundits, politicos and bloggers waxed hysterical about its supposed inaccuracies and anti-Clinton bias, though the vast majority of them had not seen it.



But profit, while not an insignificant consideration, is not at the heart of the matter here (certainly not for me personally, as I would make literally a fraction of a penny for each DVD sold). The issue is that corporate timidity is preventing millions of Americans from finding "The Path to 9/11" on DVD -- though other politically controversial movies are readily available, such as "Loose Change," which argues that the Bush administration targeted American citizens for death in an elaborate and sinister plot, or Michael Moore's unabashedly biased "Fahrenheit 9/11." These highly charged movies, which don't offer even a pretense of balance, and others can be found online or in retail outlets and DVD rental stores across the country -- and so they should be, just as "The Path to 9/11" should be.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:34 am

Ah, yes, the old "Clinton was responsible for 9/11 card."  Yeah sure

Quoting OU812 (Reply 50):
Loose Change," which argues that the Bush administration targeted American citizens for death in an elaborate and sinister plot,

Actually, that's a false statement by the WSJ. Loose Change says that American corporate interests were resposnible for 9/11.

Quoting OU812 (Reply 50):
Cringe?
Can only speak for myself. However, I find it morally reprehensible that some ,such as yourself, would doubt our military's ability to complete their mission.[

Where did I doubt our troops. It's their C-in-C that made that statement, in a stunt abord an aircraft carrier, over 4 YEARS AGO. And the war goes on. The troops did their job. The politicians in Washington did not.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 50):
.[Which was exactly what our military did-they completed major military operations-which BTW captured Saddam & killed his 2 sons]

Bush pulled the 'Mission Accomplished' stunt on May 1, 2003. Uday and Qusay weren't killed until July 22 & Saddam wasn't captured until December. So no idea what that sentence had to do with anything.
 
RJdxer
Topic Author
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:03 am

If anyone has any doubt about the definition of hedging, it should be clear now....

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I think in either case, it would be up to the Senate, since they can turn down any nominee. Based on that record, neither one should be appointed to anything, if you think about it.

First is it was a cabinet level position....

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
Not really. Again, advising a candidate is one thing; being appointed to a government position is another. I don't have a huge problem with the first. The second gives me pause.

Then, oops, I'd better broaden that since he could get something else......and so it goes.  laughing  And why does it only give him pause? If a republican administration were to hire a convicted criminal it would be Katy bar the door. laughing  Hell, as far as Falcon is concerned the Bush administration, past and present members are a bunch of criminals even though none of them have been charged or convicted (Libby was a VP employee).

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 47):
I don't see the firebreak here, RJ. Someone advising a candidate is one thing; someone being nominated for a cabinet position is quite another. The first is nothing; the second would see a huge fight.

Question, what was the last position that Sandy Berger held in the Clinton Administration and when was that position ever up for confermation before the Senate?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 49):
He undermined the Constitution and the principles of the founding fathers.

An advisor or deputy chief of staff was able to make policy on his own?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 51):
t's their C-in-C that made that statement, in a stunt abord an aircraft carrier, over 4 YEARS AGO.

To a crew that had accomplished their mission, to a military that had accomplished their mission. You can try and make fun of that all you want but the fact remains that what he said at the time was true. Of course we could always spend an afternoon discussing the definition of isscratchchin 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 51):
And the war goes on.

Same as the war went on in Europe after 1945, and in Korea after 1953. The face of the war has changed but that does not demean the nature of the original victory in all three cases.

Again folks, we see that when they are unable to say, yeah that was a dumb move on her part, they resort to trying to change the argument to something they feel they can win, even though they bring up arguments that have nothing to do with case at hand. Liberal 101. Here you have an obvious payback to someone who committed a crime to help keep the Clinton's from looking bad and rather than say, that is really stupid, we get posts about the Iraq war.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 49):
Correct, Rove did not probably break the law. But, he did a different thing. He undermined the Constitution and the principles of the founding fathers.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 49):
He decided he could piss all over their graves and the blood of veterans, since he was so clever.

Huh?

Be specific. What exactly did he do that you find so objectionable.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 54):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 49):
He decided he could piss all over their graves and the blood of veterans, since he was so clever.

Huh?

Be specific. What exactly did he do that you find so objectionable.

Rove was guilty of being a successful conservative Republican!

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 53):
Again folks, we see that when they are unable to say, yeah that was a dumb move on her part, they resort to trying to change the argument to something they feel they can win,

Answer,
What is a Kool Aid drinker!

 eyebrow 
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 52):
Bush pulled the 'Mission Accomplished' stunt on May 1, 2003. Uday and Qusay weren't killed until July 22 & Saddam wasn't captured until December. So no idea what that sentence had to do with anything.

It shows the military's continued success. US & coalition forces have been victorious in every engagement in Iraq, not to mention Afghanistan.
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm

The only payoff Sandy Berger deserves comes out the business end of a .45ACP!!!

What a worthless piece of shit oxygen thief.
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting OU812 (Reply 55):

Rove was guilty of being a successful conservative Republican!

Do you know anything about Karl Rove? About why he is an important and powerful man?

Karl Rove invented a new strategy of ruling the USA. He is a legal and political genius. He realized you can stay within the law, but redistrict all districts in favor of the Republican party. That you can use Federal agencies to support the Republican party (which is largely legal). That you can marshal the millions of Federal workers, including the military soldiers, to help the Republicans stay in power, hopefully forever. You can start wars, which is not illegal, and kill women and children, which is not illegal, to help the Republican party after 9/11. Karl Rove's influence on our national history has been very strong, and it's not over yet.

What Karl Rove taught us is, it's possible to take over the presidency using street smarts and cleverness instead of the mechanisms of the US Constitution. With Rove-style operating, the Constitution no longer carries any power at all. Freedom of speech? Nope, not so much. Freedom from unlawful arrest? Gone. Separation of church and state? Gone. Power-sharing among the Executive and Legislative branches, as written? Gone. Oh, and how about the Geneva Conventions... those are "quaint" which is probably a Rove word.

Certainly, Rove is best known for the idea that you don't need reality, because there IS no reality. It's a revolutionary thought. Reality is what you project it to be to the masses. Nothing else is real. Only the party. That's Karl Rove's genius, it's an antidote to the procedures of the Constitution. The Constitution is anything people want it to be.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
He realized you can stay within the law, but redistrict all districts in favor of the Republican party.

When did this happen? Anybody inform the Supreme Court?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
That you can marshal the millions of Federal workers, including the military soldiers, to help the Republicans stay in power, hopefully forever.

Wow. Someone tell the republicans that they didn't lose control of the Congress during the last election!  biggrin 

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
What Karl Rove taught us is, it's possible to take over the presidency using street smarts and cleverness instead of the mechanisms of the US Constitution.

I think your tinfoil hat is secured a bit tightly.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 52):
Bush pulled the 'Mission Accomplished' stunt on May 1, 2003.

Mission Accomplished in Europe over WWII was VE day of May 7, 1945. And the US has STILL to leave Germany.
 
slider
Posts: 7669
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 26):
Someone please tell me this partisan nonsense will stop some day, and I don't mean just in a.net non_av. It's the equivalent of third graders bitching about who stole more candy.

Well, that's entirely something I agree with. Lost in this partisan bitchfest is the fact that BOTH sides are totally wrong! You guys are fighting each other while the country burns. WE are the ones who lose. WE should deman honest straight government no matter the party affiliation of what side of the aisle they are on. WE are the ones who suffer with a an oligarchy that makes more rules to ingratiate itself, enrich itself at the expense of the very people they swear to represent and then we compare shades of gray and use terms like "lesser of two evils" when we all almost hold our collective noses when we pull the ballot handle. The president and Congress have ALL -TIME lowest confidence ratings; people do NOT trust government, they don't believe their elected officials, they betray us at every turn, and many are guilty of outright treason. Yet WE allow it to continue and this thread is a perfect example.

Berger is a shitbag. If I were in charge, he'd never see sunlight again or breathe fresh oxygen. He's not the only one. Left and right, Democrat and Republican alike, we are surrounded by villians, thick as thieves, patting each other on the back with a wink and a nod while they continue to dance and play the game, laughing at all of you here who want to make this a D vs R argument.

WAKE UP.
 
RJdxer
Topic Author
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
He realized you can stay within the law, but redistrict all districts in favor of the Republican party.

You mean Karl Rove invented gerrymandering? I think someone just let Al Gore and the internet invention thing off the hook! lol

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
Certainly, Rove is best known for the idea that you don't need reality, because there IS no reality.

Those are some extremely strong pharmacuticals there my friend. You want to be careful or you could hurt yourself.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 58):
The Constitution is anything people want it to be.

If he learned that he learned it from liberal democrats.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 59):

When did this happen? Anybody inform the Supreme Court?

The new Chief Justice and Mr. Alito probably got their attention, yes.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 59):
I think your tinfoil hat is secured a bit tightly.

I think the current war, and its origins, and its effects on the 2004 elections, speak for themselves. Or you could mention the attorney general firing scandal... Plame Affair... John Ashcroft... I mean, 1000 page books could be written about how weak our democracy is. It's actually not even that robust. The Republicans will be back. But the damage to the US Constitution is done. People have seen how to outwit it. Doing so is SO profitable. In my view, we just don't have laws anymore. If I wanted to kill people or steal money, I can do it without breaking the law. How's the Halliburton and Lockheed stock doing lately?

Anything is possible now. We've even built extra-legal prisons on other shores. I mean my god. The Constitution is torn into so many pieces it's just too bad. We're in a new era now.

One good solution is to tighten personal liability of government officers. If you participate in a screw-up, there may be big fines. If you participate in a crime, you do not get immunity. Just treat them like business executives. You lie, you do time. For example, why isn't the Blackwater USA CEO being interrogated? Are we thinking he didn't do crimes? Please.

It's not really practical to have a ultra-Police force to police the President. It would paralyze us. Instead, we rely on the President's good faith and ability to keep things clean and police the country himself. If he doesn't, we are powerless (and lawless) to do anything about it.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):
Anything is possible now. We've even built extra-legal prisons on other shores. I mean my god

Here's a news flash for you, flighty. Guantanamo existed as an "extra-legal" prison LONG before Bush or Rove appeared on the scene.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
OU812
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 63):

You have now entered the Twilight Zone my friend!

 drunk 
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 60):
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 52):
Bush pulled the 'Mission Accomplished' stunt on May 1, 2003.

Mission Accomplished in Europe over WWII was VE day of May 7, 1945. And the US has STILL to leave Germany.

They love to take it out of context. All phases of major combat operations of the invasion had been completed.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 49):
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 8):
Berger stole top secret documents after 9/11, and nobody except he knows what was stolen - they were the only copies.

Berger is definitely a low-class criminal. He should still be in jail for that. And they could interrogate him by maybe electrocuting him in the balls. Just an idea

 bigthumbsup 


Amazing how the lefties turned this post into something about Rove. Once again if you cannot win the argument you attack the messenger or change the subject.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 51):
Ah, yes, the old "Clinton was responsible for 9/11 card."

Not totally responsible but he was a big part.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Clintons Give Sandy Berger His Payoff

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 66):
Once again if you cannot win the argument you attack the messenger or change the subject.

Huh? No way man, I totally agree with this subject. The Clintons are quite corrupt and Sandy Berger is just about as rotten as they come.

If he's a rotten political advisor, there are other rotten ones too.

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