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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
London...I lived there....most street crime was committed by Black guys ( I worked with the stats), 89% gun crime was Black-on-Black....looks like a bad statistic and the stats create stereotyping but look deeper...

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The same statistics if done correctly may well reveal particular countries-of-origin as "leading" in that way. And if you give me these statistics I will "work" on them and then return them to you and with the same figures will prove just the contrary of your arguments !  Big grin
-

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
anti-white racsim I endured in the UK

reeeaallllly ? and how so ?
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Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
your culture gets insulted,

in what way ? and what IS "your culture" ?

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
minorities can call you all the names under the sun...

did they really do so ? or did you become a victim of vivid imagination ?
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
i for one got so sick of the anti-white racsim I endured in the UK that I got the hell out....

Was it really anti-White attitudes or was it pro-Islam immigrants that reject the values and culture of there host country? I am aware that is a growing problem in Europe.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 49):
there is no place on earth where it is cool to be white anymore

Russia, Ukraine and the Balkans.
Bring back the Concorde
 
jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 50):
reeeaallllly ? and how so ?

Yes really, when someone looks you in the eye and says that "It is a disgrace that England is run from a white, euro-centric perspectvie" "The word English actually means racist" "Black people cannot be racist, it is a white disease"

Being told you can't fly the Union Jack, having a Black staff member shout out "I just can't work with white women" and not get disciplined for it. To be told I am racist because I mentioned someone had a "dark side" to be told "Its OK for you you are white!" To fail at a job interview because there was a black candidate (not my imagination...council policy) To be told that you cannot put anything in your job applicaton that reveals your colour or your application gets canned...and find when looking in the personnel files that the "ethnic minorities" did it as a matter of routine AND GOT THE JOBS!!


Being told that being white, able-bodied and straight automatically made me a Racist and Ableist and a Sexist.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 50):
in what way ? and what IS "your culture" ?

My culture at that time was the only one in the UK which you cannot be proud of or ask to be taken into account English.. but dig a little deeper and you'll find i am of French Hugenot and Irish extraction...two oppressed peoples if i ever heard of them!!

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 50):
did they really do so ? or did you become a victim of vivid imagination ?

Oh yes and you can stop with the high and mighty smug "O RLY??" stuff because that is EXACTLY what I am talking about...this bullcrap that the English have to bow down and take it up the arse from everybody....if the Maori culture was stamped on as firmly in NZ as the English one is in the UK.....there'd be hell to pay!!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 51):
Was it really anti-White attitudes or was it pro-Islam immigrants that reject the values and culture of there host country? I am aware that is a growing problem in Europe.

Hi 'Fly...wasn't really an Islamic issue back then, in the area where I was it was almost totally an Afro-Carribean thing as regards the crap that got thrown, you know the drill, all that slavery guilt and stuff. The immigrant/Islamic thing was just creeping in but because the Balck dudes and dudettes were by then 3rd 4th 5th generation English-Born, they were better ensconced in the power structure of the local authorities.

One day I'll tell you about our Black Female "Equaities" lecturer at Uni...they did actually sack her in the end but by heck she caused some damage while she was there.

Tell me....what's your take on the phrase "Black people cannot be racist"..seriously, I respect your opinon, just wanna know how you feel when you hear that phrase (and I won't be flaming you answer, I am interested)

Quoting Superfly (Reply 51):
Russia, Ukraine and the Balkans.

Dude....there is cool and there is COLD  Smile but actually there are some seething ethnic tensions out that way too.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:42 am

Just as a point of irony and in case anyone thinks i'm a KKK supporter.....most of my working life is now taken up with trying to address the issue of young people from indigenous or immigrant culutres being over-represented in the crime stats.

The work i do helps young Maori and Pacific Island kids re-connect with their culture and gain in self-esteem through understanding their culture and their identity.

I believe it is essential for "displaced peoples" and indigenous minorities to be able to wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and be Ok with who they see.

In this way we can raise their expectations, their achievements and tweak the education system not to set them up to fail but to allow them to engage in ways that are relevant and most importantly OF USE to them.

We may not be seeing a huge amount of Maori Brain-Surgeons in the next 5 years but we will see less on the dole, more in tertiary education and an increase in +ve role-models who are not necessarily sporting heroes.

In all this work we also sweep up the white kids who are under-achieving as too much emphasis, based on race, rather than need, will only tip the balalnce back the other way.

Racism and stereotyping suck as i mentioned earlier but the answer lies in not seeing in colour, it lies in addressing needs, regardless of who has them.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):


A double standard exist. It exist because it flowed completely in one direction for 100s of years...

So you are saying two wrongs make a right?

In some cases, yes it does. It becomes a case of self-preservation. Are you familiar with white flight?

How many incidents of a black/latino family moving into a white neighborhood.. followed by 2nd, then a 3rd -- THEN all the whites bail out and leave.

vs.

How many incidents of a white family moving into a black/latino neighborhood.. followed by 2nd, then a 3rd -- THEN all the blacks/latinos bail out and leave.

If you didn't know before...now you know what white flight is. At 1st whites would threaten physical harm, then resort to firebombing black homes and burning crosses on their lawns to get them to move. Then whites resorted to red-lining (banks not extending loans to blacks wishing to move to certain areas) and association rules and regulations. Much of this still goes on. So the question is...how far should a people go to continue attempting to integrate when the evidence suggest they aren't wanted. Intelligence says to quit and redirect your energies elsewhere... which by default maintains segregated living areas..which is what we have in many places. That makes understanding that much more difficult to achieve and keeps racial divisions very much alive and at issue.

You ask 'do two wrongs make a right?' you must weigh they 'wrongs' done by both parties to reach a persective of balance in order to obtain how much work both sides require to achieve a workable solution. To say, both sides are wrong (as if the offenses are equal is a very grave error in measuring the situation). Feel free at any time to list the wrongs you think each side has committed.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
I think we as a nation have come a long way in the fight on racism but there is still work that needs to be done.

Without question.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
I feel that the biggest problem that still presents itself is a lack of understanding. Many whites 'know' a few blacks and vise versa but they don't really KNOW each other so there is an element of distrust.

Care to examine that more deeply, there's far more there than meets the eye.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
I have found that most of the racists in this country tend to be 35 and over.

Makes perfect sense, because most people who upheld and perpetuated the racial division of America were born over 35 years ago.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
White people are sometimes very guilty of stereotyping blacks. Is it because in their hearts they are racist? For most of them, I don't think so.

To a degree yes, more are than not, Martin Luther King termed them as 'unconscious racists'... it means that these people have little or no understanding of people of different backgrounds or skin colors and retreat to seeking like-kinds for re-assurance. It's more of a defensive mindset and measure than the active racists who harbor and seek to assert their beliefs of racial superiority. And their are those who fall right squarely in the middle.

But then again, there are many many whites who moved way past all this black/white nonsense.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
Some of the things that the media blows up and debates are totally stupid, and most younger people really don't care.

Very true, but it can prove to a detriment if gaffed off so easily. Those same young people grow older, get married (tend to become more conservative..) then add in a desperate situation and one or two wrong minds and 'racism' can suddenly be presented as a 'new idea' (all dressed up in new packaging of course).

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
At more than one party I had to tell my white friends to cut the racist jokes out or i would leave because I don't believe in that shit. Are they really racist? I don't think so, but again it comes back to exposure and understanding.

You don't think so? I'm curious now, just what is a racist by your definition. I mean, they could be or they veryu well could not be..after all you know them better than anyone, they are your friends. But please define what a racist is to you.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
I have more black friends than I do white friends, and most of them despise Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton because of their race baiting and antics.

This is a very uninformed group of black friends you have. Ask your friends who is more in tuned with the legacy of MLK today? Jackson/Sharpton or Andrew Young. This will tell just how 'dialed' into the state of being 'black' in America today your friends truly are. It's not a trick question...it's question on how well versed they are (or not) on recent history. If they don't care (as you said about young people above -- there's another shoe waiting to drop for them later in life...explanation later).

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
It is of their opinion (and mine) that their comments have done more harm to the fight against racism than it has good.

Again, sounds like a very uninformed group of blacks.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):

Finally, as far as crime and gangs go, crime is an indication of poverty and you find it in poor areas regardless of race. As for fixing the poverty issue among the black community, thats another issue all together, but I think as a whole it is slowly getting better.

In many areas...that is true.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
We will know racism is dead (for the vast majority) when we can laugh about it with each other and stop the racial labeling (i.e. African American) and consider ourselves just American.



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 48):

IMO, I think we should all be blind about race, religion, and ethnicity, that we will see each other as one, but thats a wild dream.

Yes, as wild as it is, it is a good one.. but unfortunately, for any good payoff (as with anything) a lot of hard work needs to be done...and we know lazy Americans can be. They tired of everything real fast-


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):
Then whites resorted to red-lining (banks not extending loans to blacks wishing to move to certain areas) and association rules and regulations

But surely some of that applies to keeping "White Trash" out of a neighbourhood too?? Are not some class issues labelled race issues in error? I'm not saying it doesn't apply to Blacks/Hispanics but are they caught up in class discrimination by default?

Currently in NZ we have protests becuase 17 people got arrested under anit-terror legislation, they had illegal firearms and molotov cocktails....nearly half were non-Maori and 2 were American, another a Greek-born Latvian or some such thing....now we have some of the Tuhoi (A Maori tribe) screaming racism when the issue was about actions and intent not race.

I think sometimes people have to take responsibility for their actions before crying foul......I'm not denying racism but too often race is used as the first line of defence.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 52):
you know the drill,

Sorry I don't know the drill.  confused 
I've never given anyone "guilt" about things that's happened in the past and it's lingering affects today.
I guess you'll have to school me on this.
Did you face any sort of job or housing discrimination or singled out by police that were Maori or Afro-Carribeans?

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 52):
Tell me....what's your take on the phrase "Black people cannot be racist"..seriously, I respect your opinon, just wanna know how you feel when you hear that phrase (and I won't be flaming you answer, I am interested)

Anybody can be prejudice.
Blacks as a whole aren't in a position to hold back Whites as a whole.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 52):
Dude....there is cool and there is COLD but actually there are some seething ethnic tensions out that way too.

Well you asked the question.  wave 
"Ethnic tensions" is an under-statement. It's is downright dangerous to be non-White in that part of Eastern Europe.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 55):
But surely some of that applies to keeping "White Trash" out of a neighbourhood too??

Well if they can't afford the price of the home in a given neighborhood, they're already priced out and therefore it's a moot point. BN747 was pointing out Blacks & Latinos that can afford to buy homes in upscale mostly White neighborhoods but still run in to obstacles that have nothing to do with income.
Bring back the Concorde
 
zTagged
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:22 am

I give up with the whole preferental phrasing/treatment towards different races. If you live in the United States of America, you are an American (Unless you hold dual citizenship). Not African-American, not Asian-American, you are American. Same goes for whatever country you are from. British, Canadian, Iraqi, Mongolian. Even if you emigrate to a different country (Say, Hong Kong to France), you should not be hyphenating your title. Country of heritage origin should make no difference on what you call yourself. Should I start calling myself "Hungarian-Russian-Polish-German-French-American" because my ancestors trace back to a shitload of European countries? No. I was born here, therefore I am American.

As for treatment. If you're a jerk, you're going to be treated as such. If you're a normal person, you'll be respected and treated as a decent human being. I don't shy away from people of different races, I don't stare them down like they're criminals (Unless they really are, and in that case, I'll lean towards caution), and I don't treat them like God's Gift to Earth because of whatever-reason-the-media-is-pushing. Nobody deserves special treatment because of their race, period.

(Sorry, I felt the need to semi-rant because my employer is holding "Embrace Diversity!" and "Respect Different Races" 'training' this week, and by god, I'm tired of it. )

 flamed 
Something awful.
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 55):
But surely some of that applies to keeping "White Trash" out of a neighbourhood too?? Are not some class issues labelled race issues in error? I'm not saying it doesn't apply to Blacks/Hispanics but are they caught up in class discrimination by default?

Without question, whites have long had 'class distinction' going all the way back to early Europe. Pre-Slave/Colonial Africa (except Egypt) the african proverb 'it takes a village to raise a child' comes from no child was ever an orphan (even if he was..) the village cared for him/them. In Asia as in Africa, greetings were always 'have you eaten today' instead of 'good morning.' People have asked here before 'why do blacks always say 'what's up' or 'acknowledge' each other (not all but many)... it's because it's deeply rooted from the period when they were all 'in the same boat' of misery as 2nd-class citizens and 'had' to stick together out of necessity and survival. That cohesion still holds today. Whites 'come together' in disaster or turmoil (say a chaotic situation in a foreign country - see the film Babel by chance?) earthquake, flood or current Calif. fires. So basically, middle/upper class whites write off 'poor whites' with relative ease without batting an eye -- and that attitude can be traced without interruption all the way back to old Europe. Blacks on the other for years resisted that characteristic, but as their stature has expanded to become upper/middle/lower ranks, they too are but surely slowly adopting a 'too bad for them attitude' towards their own poor. This is what Martin Luther King Jr feared most than anything else. More importantly, his last campaign before he could launch it was the 'Poor People Campaign' to open an all out assault against poverty period.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 55):

I think sometimes people have to take responsibility for their actions before crying foul......I'm not denying racism but too often race is used as the first line of defence.

This is true too, just like when you see one our Senator's/Reps wailing like a little kids after they've been busted -- and apologizing profusely... they're not sorry in the least. They are sorry however... that they got caught -- they are in desperation and no where else to turn. People who pull the 'race thing' as a defense in many cases are doing the same thing -- out of desperation OR to cash in on advantage. Unfortunately, the people who voice as much with validity attached to it...is seldom heard



BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 52):
told you can't fly the Union Jack

As I have seen on numerous travels, to fly the Union Jack in the U.K. is quite a normal thing and done all the time
-

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 52):
having a Black staff member shout out "I just can't work with white women"

the man clearly OUTED himself as whom he is
-
 
ual777
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:07 pm

Christ alive! BN747 is it possible that we agree on most points in this thread??  Wink

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):
So the question is...how far should a people go to continue attempting to integrate when the evidence suggest they aren't wanted. Intelligence says to quit and redirect your energies elsewhere... which by default maintains segregated living areas..which is what we have in many places. That makes understanding that much more difficult to achieve and keeps racial divisions very much alive and at issue.

I do know what "white flight" is but again, that is coming to a halt as well. For example, I used to live in a high-income neighborhood in Birmingham and we had 4-5 black families move in before we came to San Antonio (because my sister was diagnosed with brain cancer), and there was no flurry of "For Sale" signs and property values in that neighborhood have continued to rise even as it becomes 'integrated'.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):
To a degree yes, more are than not, Martin Luther King termed them as 'unconscious racists'... it means that these people have little or no understanding of people of different backgrounds or skin colors and retreat to seeking like-kinds for re-assurance.

Which ties into my original point of lack of understanding.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):

You don't think so? I'm curious now, just what is a racist by your definition. I mean, they could be or they veryu well could not be..after all you know them better than anyone, they are your friends. But please define what a racist is to you.

A racist to me is someone who does not like another race. Is it possible they are "unconcious racists" as you say? Yes. However, I think the bigger question is WHY instead of looking at it at face value. Again, I believe it ties back into lack of understanding and exposure.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):
This is a very uninformed group of black friends you have. Ask your friends who is more in tuned with the legacy of MLK today? Jackson/Sharpton or Andrew Young.

For them, and myself, it is not a matter of who is in tune with MLK. The problem that we have with JJ and AS is that for every good thing they do, they counter it by coming out and doing something extremely damaging to the anti-racism movement (a la Duke Lacrosse).

Further, many white see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as the leaders of the black community (due to their media coverage) and their comments often help breed racism. The black community needs and deserves better leadership. I have looked far and wide to see where Al Sharpton was ordained and I cannot find it, and that troubles me.

With the exception of this one issue, I feel we are more or less on the same page though.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 56):
Sorry I don't know the drill.
I've never given anyone "guilt" about things that's happened in the past and it's lingering affects today.
I guess you'll have to school me on this.


Did you face any sort of job or housing discrimination or singled out by police that were Maori or Afro-Carribeans?

Sorry 'fly....obviously things are different in europe and also different again in a local authority setting......the PC-ness that pervades local authorities on London hinges on making white people feel guilty for being white, the "equalitiies training" is an obscene rant against white people in general and in particularly male whites....generalisations are made and tirades of abuse directed against the people that form the majority in the Uk (white, straight and able-bodied) we were told that we should hang our heads in shame for the deeds of our ancestors and be forever guilty.

I actually refused to complete the equalities module of the in-house youth worker training because i had to write an essay supporting a system of beliefs that I found offensive in the extreme....this kinda bullshit is like a lot of activitist nonesense in that is is selective about the facts it presents and twists them to meet its own ends.

It would ltake a long time to explain but clearly it is different in the US.......but then not being a white youthworker, maybe you just haven't been exposed to such stuff.


I faced job discrimination for sure, I went for a job in NZ and as soon as I knew a Maori Woman was up for interview I knew I wouldn't get the job and she would...I was right.

In the UK the same but I knew the only black candidate (a male) would get the job...he did and did it so badly that he was asked to leave 18months later and then I did get the job (from an all white group of candidates)

We had an Indian worker there...woman, who routinely tried to get the white workers sacked through constructive dismissal, she would say things in meetings like "if you knew how much you offend me every day just by being here"...try saying that with a white skin and see how long you keep your job...she is still there!!

As regards housing, being white will put you further down the list for state housing than any other race, creed or culture in the UK, even if your need is greater than them...I didn't get discriminated against as I have always bought or rented but I have seen it in action.

In NZ I couldn't say but there are a good mix of colours in state housing, but white immigrants have to meet stricter criteria of entry than any other race...the hardest way into NZ is to be South African or European...and because of this you'll find the whiite immigrants are richer and better housed because they usually have to have a skill, a degree and money before being granted residence.....Pacific Islanders just have to either come from the right Island or have family here.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 57):
White neighborhoods but still run in to obstacles that have nothing to do with income.

As they do in England, it ain't colour, its breeding, in some swanky neighbourhoods a Black Doctor would be able to live there (as long as he followed the residents rules) but a white tradesman...nah...forget it, wouldn't get voted in.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 60):
As I have seen on numerous travels, to fly the Union Jack in the U.K. is quite a normal thing and done all the time

Yes but you don't live there and have no idea what you are tallking about, there are areas and places where you are told not to fly the Union jack as it is a "Racist Statement of Opression" stop trying to tell me I don't know what i am talking about, I lived there for 42 years and I know what went down and still does go down, so find another thread to be smug in please.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 62):
being white will put you further down the list for state housing

State housing?
Dude that just sounds like a very undesirable housing project.

As far as diversity training goes, everyone here goes through it as well. Here it just gives employees a heads up about being conscious and respectable of everyone's culture, gender, religious background and sexual orientation. That isn't much to ask for in my opinion.
Not sure how things are in the U.K. and N.Z.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 62):
As they do in England, it ain't colour, its breeding, in some swanky neighbourhoods a Black Doctor would be able to live there (as long as he followed the residents rules) but a white tradesman...nah...forget it, wouldn't get voted in.

Voted in?  Wow!
So people are voted in and voted out of neighborhoods like the TV show Survivor?  Wow!

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 62):
I faced job discrimination for sure, I went for a job in NZ and as soon as I knew a Maori Woman was up for interview I knew I wouldn't get the job and she would...I was right.

In the UK the same but I knew the only black candidate (a male) would get the job...he did and did it so badly that he was asked to leave 18months later and then I did get the job (from an all white group of candidates)

Gee, I never seem to come across employers that generous that would just 'give' me a job based on race.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 62):
there are areas and places where you are told not to fly the Union jack as it is a "Racist Statement of Opression"

Are you serious?  Wow!
It's the national flag!
Who are these people that you speak of? What level of sophistication are these people? If these are just bums and poorly educated people (state housing folks), I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say.
Bring back the Concorde
 
jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 63):
Dude that just sounds like a very undesirable housing project.

Some are but some are quite nice and in rural areas but in general....not high on one's list of places to want to be.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 63):
As far as diversity training goes, everyone here goes through it as well. Here it just gives employees a heads up about being conscious and respectable of everyone's culture, gender, religious background and sexual orientation. That isn't much to ask for in my opinion.

And that is what one would expect, I would have had no problem with that sorta training whatsoever in fact, I have delivered similar stuff in NZ but the stuff I (and many others) were put through was nasty.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 63):
So people are voted in and voted out of neighborhoods like the TV show Survivor?

Hell yeah, there are some gated communities that stipulate how old a car you are allowed to have parked outside, you don't buy a house, you apply to the residents committee.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 63):
Gee, I never seem to come across employers that generous that would just 'give' me a job based on race.

Should have been in London in the 70's 80's and early 90's mate  Wink You used to be (probably still are) able to take the employer to the employment tribunal if you thought you should have got the job....you'd need to be coloured or gay to win the case though.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 63):
Are you serious?
It's the national flag!
Who are these people that you speak of? What level of sophistication are these people? If these are just bums and poorly educated people (state housing folks), I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say.

Man, you wouldn't believe it...these are edicts from Local Authorities, the Race Relations Board and other professioanl bodies......at least you still got pride in your flag in the US!! It isn;t Uk-wide but it does and will continue to happen, people have been taken to court for defying the orders...the premise is that flying the flag is deliberate statement of nationalistic pride designed to oppress racial minorities.......and an Old Lady once got told to take her collection of ceramic pigs out of her window as pigs were an insult to Muslims...WTF 'Fly....WTF????
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 64):
I have delivered similar stuff in NZ but the stuff I (and many others) were put through was nasty.

What are some examples?
Here in the United States, companies are more hyper-sensative about sexual harassment. I don't recall ever seeing anything that bashed European culture.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 64):
Hell yeah, there are some gated communities that stipulate how old a car you are allowed to have parked outside, you don't buy a house, you apply to the residents committee.

That is insane but can they vote someone in/out based on race?
Here the United States, we do have those kinds of hideous communities. They are called H.O.A (home owners associations). Those tend to be in neuvo riche (new money) suburban track home communities.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 64):
You used to be (probably still are) able to take the employer to the employment tribunal if you thought you should have got the job....you'd need to be coloured or gay to win the case though.

Only once have I felt blatant discrimination on the job. Guess what? My boss was from Senegal (also Black). I was told that there was nothing I could do unless I hired my own lawyer. I had checked in to this with the labor board. He was by far the worse boss I ever had and yes he did single me out just to show off to his boss that he can be tough on another Black employee. He knew I was smarter than him and I even exposed his own incompetence to his bosses which almost costed him his job. I ended up leaving the job because I knew the other shoe would drop on me soon and besides, I really wasn't excited about the job anymore.
Proving discrimination is often very difficult to prove and many companies have tons of rules on the books but selectively enforced against employees they don't like.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 64):
and an Old Lady once got told to take her collection of ceramic pigs out of her window as pigs were an insult to Muslims...

You have GOT to be kidding me?!?!?!  Wow!
That is f--king insaine!
It's things like this that make me really concerned about the future of Western Europe as being a peaceful place where people of different ethnicities are welcome and can live in harmony. My concern is if Western Europe becomes fascist thanks to the Muslims and backlash against everyone who isn't Euopean, killing off non-Muslim immigrants as well. It's already happening in Eastern Europe.
What you pointed out seriously needs to be addressed. Sadly, the only people speaking out against them are people that are equally dangerous, Nazis / skinheads..
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BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 61):
A racist to me is someone who does not like another race.

As you said, 'to you' that is what it means. Technically, a racist is someone who supports, upholds the maintaining of a system of societal order (including it's institutions) that clearly favors one race over another or all others and doesn't

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 61):
want to see it changed. Like America in the 1950s/60s and South Africa all the way thru the eighties. In the UK today, many whites don't like the 'browning of the UK'..they'd prefer to 'keep things the way they are'. But people have a natuaral dislike for change..but this about the racial elements with society (-ties).

As I mentioned in the other Racism thread, last week on MSNBC during a piece on 'Immigration' a white woman was interviewed about her perspective on the influx of illegal immigrants and immigrants period' Her reply was one of the most genuine retorts ever recorded -- without malice or hatred -- just visceral discomfort. She said "The schools are changing and my kids are becoming the minority, and here .. I'm becoming the minority.. .. and I don't like it." Is that racist? It is the voicing of an 'unconscious racist'. Which is in part, no fault of her own, meaning this is how she was conditioned and raised, because her previous exposure to 'different people' has been pretty much limited - therefore her barrier comfort (among her own kind) is shrinking and she must now decide on how to cope with it. When MLK first coined this term...this is precisely what he meant.


[quote=UAL777,reply=61]Is it possible they are "unconcious racists" as you say? Yes. However, I think the bigger question is WHY instead of looking at it at face value. Again, I believe it ties back into lack of understanding and exposure.

You're exactly right, WHY? That's the difference between you and our other young friend Bagpiper, you seek to understand 'why' whereas he seeks people to agree with his perspective. How can anyone 'know all there is about such a complex issue' at such a young age, hell I'm twice as old and I'm still putting the pieces together... and I was asking 'WHY' ...20 years ago! What I said earlier about getting to that ideal state of relations 'requiring 'hard work'... it is those who do the asking 'why' and don't shrug their shoulders and say 'whatever'... who are doing all that hard work. Unfortunately, those who gaff it off, are the one's who indirectly.. 'help keep racial division alive'.

And the farther away we get from the history of 'why it happened the way it did...' the farther away we get from understanding. The Past and the Present are forever linked..and nothing can change that. If a person dismisses the past as 'something that happened a long time ago...' that same person is permitting that very distant occurrence to be renewed, repackaged and re-presented to be used against him. Because a man who doesn't know his history is a man who can't possibly know his future (in the sense of 'where he's going' not the ability to 'portend the future).

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 61):
For them, and myself, it is not a matter of who is in tune with MLK. The problem that we have with JJ and AS is that for every good thing they do, they counter it by coming out and doing something extremely damaging to the anti-racism movement (a la Duke Lacrosse).

Factually that's an unfair accounting... and here's why. Jackson and Sharpton had to take a stand in the Duke situation in it's nascent stages or it ran the chance of becoming 'Justice Jena, LA-style'. The problem here, those strippers 'USED the Race issue' to attract attention to their side and got it, they were the 'the Boy who cried Wolf' and there was none. The Jena, LA kids could have used that spotlight. But as I said earlier, those who truly are done an injustice..rarely ever get heard. But the Duke case was like the OJ case..it had all the magical ingredients for 1st page 'attention getting'. Race, Sex and Money. OJ had the same components. That is the proof that all is takes is those THREE items and America goes completely to pieces. And it will work every time.

But back to Jackson/Sharpton, they backed a bogus claim (second for Sharpton).. to say the good they've done is wiped out by the bad, that's not true at all ..especially if you DO KNOW the good they've done. Most people have no idea, they only know 'the bad calls'. If someone in your family was gunned down by cops in a hail of bullets 'because the cops thought he was reaching for a weapon..' and then your reach for justice fell on deaf ears -- you too would want a Jackson/Sharpton bringing spotlight to get that justice, not so much for yourself..but so that 'it doesn't happen again to someone else! If no one says anything...that leaves the door open for it to be repeated over and over again..in which it was until the two guys started citing case after case where this was occurring...and believe or not, a lot of white people don't like 'their cops' being attacked in these situations -- but reverse the trend, say you have case after case of gangs of black cops shooting white unarmed kids, or a white woman with a knife -- how long and how well do you think that would sit with whites? Do you think for a minute blacks would side with these black cops doing this repeatedly? But I digress, Jackson, more so that Sharpton (by far) is much more that than and has achieved far..and to answre my question posed above..it is Jackson who has (ironically and against all odds) who has delivered on MLK's desire to take on the mission of a renewed distribution of wealth. Not the assumed leader, Andrew Young.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 61):
The black community needs and deserves better leadership.

Most people in America today, (black, white and everything in between) have no idea who Andrew Young is anymore..but for good or worse..they know who Jackson is. Is he the best leader for black America? I think only black America is uniquely qualified to answer that...not some random white person who has no clue what the black experience in America is.. (thinking you do doesn't count - not talking to you directly UAL777) .

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 61):
Further, many white see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as the leaders of the black community (due to their media coverage) and their comments often help breed racism.

And many whites (again) see only 'that' and they tragically mirror those whites from the 1950s and 1960s who called MLK the very same names they call Jackson and Sharpton today. Worse part is they don't even know half the story and don't want to know it.

BN747
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
What are some examples?
Here in the United States, companies are more hyper-sensative about sexual harassment. I don't recall ever seeing anything that bashed European culture

I do work-based assessments with youthworkers in training and some of this is around the Treaty of Waitangi (easier to google than explain), you get some resistance to this from parts of the Pakha (white) workforce but it all boils down to respecting Maori culture and understanding the protocols.

This is true across the Asia-Pacific Region where we have a huge diversity of cultures to deal with, glad to say my current organisation are pretty down-to-earth about things of this nature and so it is more a practical thing than a political issue.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
That is insane but can they vote someone in/out based on race?

These sort of organisations are never asked to explain themselves, all voting is by secret ballot, a bit like trying to join the Freemasons.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
You have GOT to be kidding me?!?!?!

You've no idea how much I'd like to say "yes I am".....there's far worse goes down in the UK on a daily basis....utter crap most of it but it is upheld due to there being so many "minorities" in power due to previous BS like "Positive Discrimination" and the PC/Leftist agendas that breed this kinda thing. Basically, in England the only people you can discriminate against are White/Sraight/Males.

One day I had to sack 2 people, one was Black and the other White, I sacked the white dude in the morning and set about the Black guy in the arvo.....his first words.."You can't do that to me, it's racist". He expected me to back down at that point as most managers would, due to the shit-fight that will then ensue,..I replied to him "Tough luck mate, I sacked a White guy this morning....you won't make the racism thing stick"...and that was the end of the matter but I know heaps of examples where minority workers do no work whatsoever but won;t get sacked because they'll play the race card and it is easier to absorb their incompetence than fight the case...a good friend of mine has just left a well-paid job in Hertfordshire for that very reason...she had people taking the piss and no-one would allow her to invoke the "procedure" to get them out or...and this is the sick part....to get them to work to their Job Description and KPI's!!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
What you pointed out seriously needs to be addressed. Sadly, the only people speaking out against them are people that are equally dangerous, Nazis / skinheads

And what is scarier still is the fact that they are getting votes in local elections...the trouble with some anit-discrimination policies is they go too far and cause more racsim than they ever set out to solve.


Oh and mate....don't forget that when my Father-in-Law was a school caretaker they changed all the rubbish sacks from black to green because they thought having a black rubbish sack was racist...I kid you not and I so wish I was!!

AND......a notice was sent round (by the same council) saying that all blackboards had to be referred to as "Chalk Boards" and even Whiteboards had to be called "Wipeboards"....the school I worked in had green ones  Wink
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torquewrench
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 28):
I like black people but I do not like "niggas". By "nigga' I mean those who live the stereotypical black lifestyle of rap, drugs and crime. Those are the ones who I can and admit to being "racist" against

I would also add those who for some reason feel obliged to wear pants that are several sizes too big, and walk around holding thier crotch all the time. Ask them why they do these things and most of them have no clue. I even had one of them tell me the "crotch holding thing" was born into them. What a crock of crap. Many of them have no idea how the baggy pants thing started. For the record it came about as a result of some "gangsta rapper" being locked up and not given a belt for fear that he might harm himself. So hs pants sagged a bit. Then his idols started doing the same thing on the outside. Look what it's evolved into now. As for the crotch holding I am of the belief that those people want others to fixate upon thier crotch. put another way....they want others to look at thier d**k. So they place the hand there to draw attention.

In closing....... In my opinion there are blacks, and there are ni**ers. There is a huge difference. Blacks for the most part are decent human beings who just happen to have a dark skin tone. Ni**ers, on the other hand have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings.

My .02 worth
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seb146
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Bush posthumously awarded Civil War Vets for their service 150 years ago... Is that not recognition not warrant for something that happened along to ago (your method of attempting to diminish it's impact)?

When any President does that he does so on behalf of the Congress and the nation.

So if Civil War veteran-deeds can be officially recognized and honored... and that for 4 years of service of less...

..then is it not RIGHT in the vein of justice to 'OFFICIALLY recognize and honor' the people who gave their entire lives - by force' to make the United States the riches nation on earth.

I think it is good that the government has recognized their mistakes. There was also an official apology issued to Asian Americans for the internment during WWII. But, my father's parents immigrated from Ireland and Germany. My mothers great-grandparents immigrated from Ireland and England. As a relativley recent arrival to this country, I don't feel I was part of the Civl War or slave trades or any of that. It was an awful time in this country's history and apologies should be made. But, when I hear a Black person use sweeping generlizations about "all White people have to give back" or "all Whites are at fault" that hurts. It makes me feel like they don't know that some of us are not to blame. But, because of the color of our skin, they don't care. It is in this vein I have an inkling of what discrimination is like. I don't know the full brunt of it, but I have gotten a taste of it.
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 69):
Black person use sweeping generlizations about "all White people have to give back" or "all Whites are at fault" that hurts.

Especially as on both sides of the Atlantic there were people who vigorously opposed slavery from the beginning and their decendants are living in the US and UK right now....generalisations always suck and the whole world really needs to take a deep breath and chill..
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 69):
There was also an official apology issued to Asian Americans for the internment during WWII.

It was to the Japanese and it was a cash settlement/reparations of $20,000.00 per person totally totaling $1.2 billion dollars.
Very few Blacks are concerned about the reparations for slavery. The advocates aren't saying 'Whites' should pay. If it's from the US government, that would include everyone including Blacks.
Anyhow, if a person chooses to immigrate to another country, they are going to have to accept the laws and policies of that country. You can't cherry-pick which parts of your new host countries policies and rules that you want to be a part of.
So that argument about your ancestors coming here after slavery is totally moot. Slavery is the very backbone that helped the United States become a industrialized, wealthy & economic powerhouse, thus the reason why your ancestors moved here.

Quoting Torquewrench (Reply 68):
In closing....... In my opinion there are blacks, and there are ni**ers. There is a huge difference. Blacks for the most part are decent human beings who just happen to have a dark skin tone. Ni**ers, on the other hand have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings.

So what would you call a White, Latin, Asian or Arabic kid that feels obliged to wear pants that are several sizes too big, and walk around holding their crotch all the time, have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings?


Jafa39:
I was saying "WTF" about the pig decorations needing to be moved. I am still suspicious about your claim that it harder to fire a Black or Maori person than a White. US and UK laws aren't that much different. Those who speak the way you are here in the US really are bigots but will deny it.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 67):
due to there being so many "minorities" in power due to previous BS like "Positive Discrimination" and the PC/Leftist agendas that breed this kinda thing.

Hmm, I just did a little research and found that Positive Discrimination is against the law in the U.K.
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tsaord
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 37):

I didn't know how to approach this. I tend to watch myself around people with the "gangsta" look. IMO, the white ones tend to be more aggressive than blacks, but they still look menacing. If someone is dressed well, I don't pay much attention to them, but if they are dressed like a thug, I keep an eye on them for my safety

It's funny you mention that. I do that all the time. I live in Chicago and take the Redline to work often. The south portion of it is in a mostly black(African American) area. I'm a Black American myself and I become a little more "aware" of whats going on when I see folks dressed with the pants hanging, hair not combed, it's the image of the bad guy/thug lots of rappers portray and lots of black males take on that image. I live in a not so nice neighborhood and when crime happens, I have never seen someone get arrested in a suit/casual dress lol. Call it a stereotype but all are based on some sort of truth.
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:36 pm

Jafa39:
You are being selective
Re-read my response to Sab146 in reply #71.
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
So what would you call a White, Latin, Asian or Arabic kid that feels obliged to wear pants that are several sizes too big, and walk around holding their crotch all the time, have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings?

They get called "Wiggas" in the UK (white n----gas)

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
I am still suspicious about your claim that it harder to fire a Black or Maori person than a White.

Its true I was in management and saw it for myself, as have many of my colleagues.....harder in a local authority setting than anywhere else I grant you but it happens.

We had a black guy of 42 start an affair with a 15yr old girl at the youth centre...it took 2 years to sack him and in the end my black line-manager asked me to just write out his reisgnation and post it to him. I've seen white guys get shot of in under a day for similar misdemeanours......don't get me wrong 'Fly I ain't no racist, I take everybody as I find them but the scores of incidents of "institutionalised racism" I have witnessed or been party to bear some exposure here on a racism thread because there are circumstances in the Uk and in NZ where the discimination is all stacked against the white boys...i don't blame black people or maori people for this as they are individuals but I do blame a system that has allowed people from certain cultures to believe they do not need to take responsibility and I blame the fuckwit lawyers and union officials that support them in their bogus claims of racism when the reality is...they were crap at their jobs or a danger to young people or the public.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
Those who speak the way you are here in the US really are bigots but will deny it.

I'm no bigot, I hate systems that disempower individuals and prevent them from prgogressing, certain "integration policies" hold ehtnic minorities back from progressing their role in society but insulatiing them from the hard grind of the real world....and anyway....you've been on my RU list for a while now....that isn't tokenism or bigotry...its cuz i like your style.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
Hmm, I just did a little research and found that Positive Discrimination is against the law in the U.K.

Is now (officially) was Ok in the 70's 80's but in reality if you look deeper at some of the policies and the interpretation and implementation of those policies you will see that is is alive and well.

I only employed people who could do the job and that made me rare in the local authority world of management, trust me dude...I would not lie as some of the people involved in my field of work who know me and know my history lurk on here, I would soon get my ear bent if i told a pack of lies.
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:20 pm

Jafa39:
I know you aren't a bigot.
Just pointing out that some of the things you are saying is similar to bigots here in the United States. Things may be different down under.. I'll explain more about this later. I have to run.
Glad you & I and others are able to keep this thread civil for such a controversial topic.
I'll be back in a few hours.
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 75):
Glad you & I and others are able to keep this thread civil for such a controversial topic.

Probably a first for a.net!!  Smile

Catch ya later.
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mbj-11
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 76):
Probably a first for a.net!!

Amen to that. (Just back from vacation)
Believe it or not sorting based on race is a frequent problem I have with TSA, especially at MIA. Don't believe, paint yourself black and take any flight and you'll see. (Anyway.....that's just a few)

Just a question:.........Jafa is racism a really big issue in NZ?
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torquewrench
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
Quoting Torquewrench (Reply 68):
In closing....... In my opinion there are blacks, and there are ni**ers. There is a huge difference. Blacks for the most part are decent human beings who just happen to have a dark skin tone. Ni**ers, on the other hand have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings.

So what would you call a White, Latin, Asian or Arabic kid that feels obliged to wear pants that are several sizes too big, and walk around holding their crotch all the time, have little or no respect for themselves, the law, and other human beings?

Same thing. They are no different. There are ni**ers of all races and colors.
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 77):
Just a question:.........Jafa is racism a really big issue in NZ?

Depends who you ask really, the Maori activists will have you believe it is a huge deal and that they are oppressed but the average Maori in the street would disagree and those that have travelled the world (especially to Aussie) will claim that Maori have a pretty good deal going on in NZ.

Asian Immigrants complain that racsism prevents them getting good jobs out here as do the Indians and there are many dialogues over that one around whether their experience and quals from overseas are relevant.

Some of the older white families (I mean those who have been here for generations) can be quite racist but it never seems to be malicious like it gets in Europe...can you have "benign racism"???

We have a few neo-nazi types here but they are kept pretty much in check.

In reality, the worst racsim comes from the Maori activists but I do know several Maori that say they prefer to deal with English immirant NZers than "proper" Kiwis in some situations.

As a youth worker my observations are that racism amongst young people is not a big issues but we do have a problem with youth gangs at the moment and they are pain in the arse but mainly to other gangs.
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mbj-11
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:34 am

Just to go off topic here, so gangs are an emerging problem in NZ or they have always been?
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Torquewrench (Reply 78):
Same thing. They are no different. There are ni**ers of all races and colors.

Why not just call them hoodlums instead of using an old racist term? That spares you lots of ridicule and potential hostile situation. You know damn well you wouldn't use that term is front of other Blacks, even if you were just referring to the hoodlums.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 74):
that isn't tokenism or bigotry...its cuz i like your style.

Totally understood and I hope that fishing invitation is still there when ever I visit New Zealand.  Smile
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Reply 80):
so gangs are an emerging problem in NZ or they have always been?

They have always been, things were much, much worse 20 years ago when the Mongrel Mob and Black Power were rampaging about the place but they are keeping a low-profile but run the methamphetamine industry so are still corroding society but in a different way.

Its the Hip-Hop inspired youth gangs that are a prolem (although mainly to each other) at the moment and there are something like 200 different agencies working on the problem right now.

One way that works particularly well with Maori youth is to reconnect them to their own culture and give them a sense of belonging and identity that doesn't involve mysoginy, drugs and guns but its a tough nut to crack.

The Maori activists work against any interventions by insisting on harping back to the bad old days rather than engaging with their own youth and helping them to achieve....if you take the model of NZAsian society yo can see how much a good cultural identity and some positive parental support can turn things around and lead to a level of interation previously only dreamt about because 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese Kiwi's are....Kiwi's, simple as that, they are still Chinese but they integrate ectremely well and do well in education and employment, even though it is much tougher for their parents.

With Pacific island kids it is much harder because their community focus tends to be the chruch rahter than the Marae (Maori community/cultural centre) and the churches don;t exactly work in harmony and with the exception of the Baptists seem not to have a clue about youth work.

Sometimes a belief in God is the end of proactivity and responsibility in one's life.

But...having travelled the world a fair bit, I still reckon NZ is one of the best integrated and safest places to live but bad things can still happen to you and it is unfortunate that the scum bags who deal in the drugs that balls things up are usually a combination of Asian and Maori (gangs) hooked up into organised crime.

The white boys stivck to corporate fraud and propoerty scams.
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jafa39
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 81):
Totally understood and I hope that fishing invitation is still there when ever I visit New Zealand.

Always  Wink
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seb146
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 71):
So that argument about your ancestors coming here after slavery is totally moot. Slavery is the very backbone that helped the United States become a industrialized, wealthy & economic powerhouse, thus the reason why your ancestors moved here.

I agree. However, there has to be a way the government apologizes for what happened then without a few Blacks making all Whites feel bad. Most of us (save a few in the deep South and the back woods of Montana) feel bad about what happened. Looking back, most of us feel slavery was a dark part of this country's history and something should be done to set things right. But, at the same time, I don't want a few Blacks running around screming "IN YOUR FACE!!" to any random White person. We have come a long way in race relations. There is still a ways to go, but there should be a way to bask in the glow of a well deserved apology while working towards better relations.
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WellHung
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:20 am

Oh man... this past Sunday's Curb Your Enthusiasm had some classic accidental and unintended racism. A must watch for everyone in this thread.
 
torquewrench
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 81):
Why not just call them hoodlums instead of using an old racist term? That spares you lots of ridicule and potential hostile situation. You know damn well you wouldn't use that term is front of other Blacks, even if you were just referring to the hoodlums

I never claimed to use the term. I personaly don't find the term (n-word) offensive. Neither do I find the terms "cracker", "redneck", or others accociated with whites to be offensive. Stupid use of terms, yes, but not offensive.
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shep2
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:46 am

WOW - where are we?

Somewhere between heaven and hell...

I guess it is a good thing - to have all this drama - life would be rather boring without it?

Racism? I've never thought too much about it. I've seen many folk treated unfair - fat, ugly, pretty, smart, stupid, rich, poor, creative, lazy, smokers, hippies, jocks, homos, fags, nerds, whatever....

What you are - is what you are...

The cards have been dealt - play your hand - or throw a few cards away - in hopes things will get better...

Racism? Fatism? Uglyism? Stupidism?

Race is not the only reason of prejudice in today's world.

I HAVE A DREAM !!!

I dream equality will happen for everyone !!!

I dream suffering will end !!!

I dream the rich and poor will no longer be separated !!!!

I dream everyone, and everything is perfect !!!

WOW - can you imagine if my dream above - became true?

How would you know you were alive - if you saw no one die?

How would you know you were healthy if you saw no one suffer?

How would you know you were of ANY RACE at all if there was NO RACE DIFFERENTIAL?

[Edited 2007-10-30 20:52:27]
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting WellHung (Reply 85):
Oh man... this past Sunday's Curb Your Enthusiasm had some classic accidental and unintended racism. A must watch for everyone in this thread.

That was pretty funny....but "this weeks" Boondocks completely out 'N'-ed, Larry David's troubled escapade...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 84):
I don't want a few Blacks running around screming "IN YOUR FACE!!" to any random White person.

Dude, where on earth do you hang out?  confused 


***Mods***
Looks like Shep has returned and it's ironic he is posting in this thread.

27. If you've been suspended, then you are not permitted to post via another member. If it is found that this rule has been breached, you may have your suspension extended or be permanently banned. In addition, whoever posted on your behalf may also face suspension.

Quoting Torquewrench (Reply 86):
I personaly don't find the term (n-word) offensive.

Ok, go ahead and use that word in Black circles and see what kind of reaction you get.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Dougloid
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):
Quoting Torquewrench (Reply 86):
I personaly don't find the term (n-word) offensive.

Ok, go ahead and use that word in Black circles and see what kind of reaction you get.

All of which points to what I identified, that meaning is a product of context and experience. Who's doing the saying is as important, if not more so, than the bare meaning of what they say.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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seb146
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):
Dude, where on earth do you hang out?

There are those kinds in every sector of society. When gays were given the power of domestic partnership in Portland, there were a few (VERY few) that were "IN YOUR FACE" about it. I know there will be a few (again VERY few) that will do the same thing when the U.S. Government apologizes for slavery. I don't blame Blacks for being excited over it. It is worth celebrating, but there will be a few taking the celebrations a bit far.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 91):
There are those kinds in every sector of society. When gays were given the power of domestic partnership in Portland, there were a few (VERY few) that were "IN YOUR FACE" about it. I know there will be a few (again VERY few) that will do the same thing when the U.S. Government apologizes for slavery. I don't blame Blacks for being excited over it. It is worth celebrating, but there will be a few taking the celebrations a bit far.

There are dorks in all sectors of the community but they'll get over it when they realise it won't make any difference to their lves....still be the same old "slave to the wage" grind...and that is the irony of it ......we're ALL slaves now!!  Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:13 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):
Black circles and see what kind of reaction you get.

lol, just come to Compton. THat is the funniest phrase I've ever heard "N-word not offensive".
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 93):
"N-word not offensive".

Only if spelt N-I-G-G-A-Z and spoken black on black, hell the word appears in soooo many Hip-Hop tracks that one could be forgiven for thinking it is no longer offensive...how many times do you hear some rapper saying stuff like "All mah Niggaz" or "Yo..mah Niggaz" or Me and my Niggaz"? My son is a white rapper and a DJ, runs a record store now so I know its true.

You can harp on about "ownership" of words and the like but it does smack of hypocrisy, like gay people who have (in the UK don't know if its worldwide) their own credit card called the "Queer Card" and a TV progeamme called "Queer Nation" but if you call someone queer its an insult.

Crazy old world bro.......not enough prozac in the water supply if you ask me..... Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 94):
You can harp on about "ownership" of words and the like but it does smack of hypocrisy,

...and one of the many reason why I hate rap music and everything associated with it.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 93):
lol, just come to Compton.

I thought you were in Redlands?  confused 
Bring back the Concorde
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 95):
you were in Redlands?

yeah, but Compton was just put in there for an example .
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 95):
and one of the many reason why I hate rap music and everything associated with it.

Yup, Disco spreads the luuurve in a big way  Smile Can't seem to remember Heatwave packing heat and smacking their bitches up  Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 96):
yeah, but Compton was just put in there for an example .

So you're just trying to act "hard".  Silly

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 97):
Yup, Disco spreads the luuurve in a big way Can't seem to remember Heatwave packing heat and smacking their bitches up

Well said!  yes 
Bring back the Concorde
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 94):
My son is a white rapper and a DJ, runs a record store now so I know its true.

Jeez, I didn't know you were related to Vanilla Ice......


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If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn

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