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mbj-11
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Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:41 am

In response to the other thread that going full steam ahead with claim counter claim and denials in certain departments I just felt the need to let the view be seen from over the fence.

I personally took no offence from the other thread and thought it encouraged good discussion (with some). But lemme just share it from a black "negro" ni**er point of view. I know the words exist, but they are that.......words.

When you are classed as a minority and given "preferential treatment" how would you look on that? Does it mean you have a disability? Is something wrong with you? Why are you classed as a minority? What makes you a minority?

I have on many occasions been in settings where I get asked questions repeatedly, spoken to slowly, been followed around all for what? What did I do? People talk of being equal, but walking into a room where there are whites and Asians and have the men pull there wives aside or purses being quickly taken up before you pass, why? having assumptions made about you just because you "look a certain way". Hearing "oh, I have black friends", yet still being watched from the corner of eyes. Would that drive you to hate?
Being told , its too expensive for you, yet being sold to other races because they are assumed to have money, how would you feel? Walking up to an officer to inquire directions and his arm is placed on his weapon and telling you to "step back sir!!" Or worst yet, walking up to an immigration officer who just finished processing a hispanic couple and have him place his hand on his weapon and move away when you greet him, for what?
Being told of your expectations and your abilities over and over in school and in public, would that make you hate?
Lemme put it this way, most black folk, not all .....but most black folks don't hate whites or any other races. The problem lies in the treatment you are given without reason. See its somewhat difficult if you're not black to understand. You are receptive to all yet when you are in other circles, you are a threat. Some will see that as paranoia, but again I say experience is s hell of a teacher. There have been others who have far worst experience, just check Brazil, to be accepted your shade of black is important in how you progress in life.
Some who live in their glass houses or ideal environment may consider this a rant or a whine, its just actually the everyday reality of a black man. I fear travelling sometimes because I know what is awaiting me at the airport. The rough treatment as it is assumed you can take it or that's what you are used to.

I see every man as a man, I have no fear of whites, indians, asians, aborigines , blacks etc. The black guy you assume that may be stealing is the one who is buying while the other guy is the shoplifter, but not many people see it that way. You are stereotyped and then given preferential treatment to make up for it. That's a laugh, because often the preferential treatment will amount to squabbles for scarce benefits as the little is being fought over by many.
So its not easy being black, you don't cry or demand for reparation because its pointless and it'll never come. All you want is to be treated equally and be given a chance without first being first convicted. That's all, to all who understand, I say God bless and to those who are cynical, God bless you even more.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:04 am

(checkmark}

I am with your bro. I am black and I can identify from your perspective. But I will be honest. Either I am extremely naive, ignorant or just don't care, because i could care less what people think or suppose of me. I have as much rights as anyone else. If i walk into a store and people looking at me, well to hell with them to be honest, cause they don't change the price of sugar in my opinion. I have been victim of subtle racism on more than one ocasion but I refuse to return it. I am not racist, I have friends that are white, Indian, mixed from all walks of life and corners of the planet. My girlfriend is latina (whatever race that is HAHA) Life is short and I refuse to get caught up in the nonsensical issues of racism.

As Bob Marley said, ONE LOVE.
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bagpiper
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:14 am

lol now there's two threads to watch :-/

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
When you are classed as a minority and given "preferential treatment" how would you look on that?

They were asking for preferential treatment in the other thread...



I think some of this (the preferential treatment) comes from what whites think they need to show blacks... maybe because some of the extremest type of blacks (dunno how else to explain it), who are the loudest, demand stuff like that. Whites, not wanting to be racists, bigots, and wanting to be PC, give in to those demands. Thus leaving you, and those who think like you, stuck in the middle?

However, I'm not going to try to defend the other reactions - pulling purses in, etc. I don't see that from where I'm from (and, trust me, with the other thread, I've been watching these past few days. Granted, from my perspective, but still I've been watching). In fact, walking out of the grocery store, a woman with three kids and a full cart allowed a black guy to take her cart for her and walk it to her car with her, while she took care of the kids. He loaded everything in for her, and took the cart back to the store. She never asked - he just did it. She said thank you very much, just like she would have done if it was a white person.

But what you're seeing - that's inexcusable.
 
captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 2):
In fact, walking out of the grocery store, a woman with three kids and a full cart allowed a black guy to take her cart for her and walk it to her car with her, while she took care of the kids. He loaded everything in for her, and took the cart back to the store. She never asked - he just did it. She said thank you very much, just like she would have done if it was a white person.

Now that is acceptable behaviour. I mean my goodness we are in 2007, we all need to just grow the F up. Wouldn't you agree? And the problem lies with blacks and whites and whatever other races alike. We just have too many issues. We all need to get over it.

Modern Science has proven that we are all human with bodies morphologically the same, with slight differences thay may have to do with how we all evolved, living in distinct habitats ie.. skin colour, hair, body shape etc.. Ok I am going off on a tangent here, but you get the point.. 

[Edited 2007-10-18 20:22:06]
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bagpiper
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 3):

That behavior is all I see around here.... That wasn't the first time I had seen somebody do something like that for a person from another race. Same goes with white men / black women.

but, let me point out that I'm in a conservative area, and most of the residents have a fairly nice income (for the zip code, the median income is $103,000). Please, don't label me as a rich white person, just because I said that.


But yes, I agree with you... can't be just forget about this whole thing?
 
cfalk
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):

I think we all know that blacks who think like you are, if not in the majority, at least nearly so among the African-American population. The problem is that we (non-blacks) tend to see a rather mono-cultural perspective on blacks, thanks to the media. You have the rapper/pimp/ho culture glorified by MTV, and the criminal image that stems from it. Many blacks, including some of my friends, will privately express their distaste for this culture and everything that goes with it (such as "ebonics"). But you don't hear too much talk like that in public. Bill Cosby speaks out, as do Juan Williams and certain others, but they get called Uncle Toms or Happy Negro for saying that blacks need to get off the government tit, educate themselves and integrate fully into American culture. If it became clear that many or most black Americans thought this way, I think you would see much of the prejudice you speak of die away.

You mightblame whites for being prejudiced in the first place, and you would have a valid point. But quite apart from the age-old predjudices of our grandparents' era, there is an element that has basically come into the picture just since the 80s and 90s - the idea that many blacks, by CHOICE, not necessity, choose to thumb their noses at the idea of education, integration - those essential components required to kill off predjudice and racism. I simply don't believe that all these kids are forced to follow the example of Flava Flav or Snoop Dog. Enjoy the music if you want, but if you decide to drop out and talk trash, that was a decision on your part, not something forced on you. There are millions of wealthy Americans who grew up in poverty, whether in the country or in the cities, who became successful after learning to speak properly, take advantage of the free education (if you are serious, scholarships can even make university free) and put in the hours.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 4):
That behavior is all I see around here.... That wasn't the first time I had seen somebody do something like that for a person from another race. Same goes with white men / black women.

but, let me point out that I'm in a conservative area, and most of the residents have a fairly nice income (for the zip code, the median income is $103,000). Please, don't label me as a rich white person, just because I said that.

Not labelling you my friend.. I agree, in many places such is normal behavior.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):
But quite apart from the age-old predjudices of our grandparents' era, there is an element that has basically come into the picture just since the 80s and 90s - the idea that many blacks, by CHOICE, not necessity, choose to thumb their noses at the idea of education, integration - those essential components required to kill off predjudice and racism.

You're damn right. I am black, but I would be a fool not to admit that many black people have some serious issues. They are just bringing themselves down, and in some instances help in making the stereotyping worse. But as I said before, the current situation with race, has alot to do with both sides of the table. But it is high time for things to change...
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:46 am

Sorry I missed this thread.

Mbj-11:
Excellent post!
Thanks for pointing these facts out.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
So its not easy being black, you don't cry or demand for reparation because its pointless and it'll never come.

Agreed. It's a non-issue yet some love to harp on this issue.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):
The problem is that we (non-blacks) tend to see a rather mono-cultural perspective on blacks, thanks to the media.

I've been saying that for years in these forums but I am glad you see the media and how it stereotypes. So don't ever let me see you label the media 'liberal' again because the media is not liberal at all.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):
You have the rapper/pimp/ho culture glorified by MTV, and the criminal image that stems from it. Many blacks, including some of my friends, will privately express their distaste for this culture and everything that goes with it (such as "ebonics").

I've said that numerous times in these forums.
The problem is that many Whites will come across hundreds of Black professionals but only notice the thugs/gangster/rapper types. Now who's fault is that?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):
Bill Cosby speaks out, as do Juan Williams and certain others, but they get called Uncle Toms or Happy Negro for saying that blacks need to get off the government tit, educate themselves and integrate fully into American culture.

Who are you talking about?
Every Black person I know agreed with Bill Cosby's comments. Have you met a Black person that was angry at Bill Cosby's comments? I haven't.
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avek00
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:10 am

What say you about this letter written by a Nigerian in response to the recent comments of the Nobel laureate suggesting that Blacks are intellectually inferior to Whites?

I Agree With Dr Watson


Daily Trust (Abuja)


OPINION
25 October 2007
Posted to the web 25 October 2007

By Idang Alibi


A few days ago, the Nobel Laureate, Dr James Watson, made a remark that is now generating worldwide uproar, especially among the blacks.

He said what to me looks like a self-evident truth. He told The Sunday Times of London in an interview that in his humble opinion, black people are less intelligent than the White people.


Since then, some of us cannot hear anything else but the outrage of black people who feel demeaned by what Watson has said. So many people have called the man names. To be expected, some have said he is a racist. Some even wonder how a "foolish" man like Watson could have won the Nobel Prize. Even white people who, deep in their heart, agree with Watson want to be politically, correct so they condemn the man.

Why are we blacks becoming so reactive, so sensitive to any remarks, no matter how well-meaning, about our failure as a race? Why are we becoming like the Jews who see every accusation as a manifestation of anti-Semitism? I do not know what constitutes intelligence. I leave that to our so-called scholars. But I do know that in terms of organising society for the benefit of the people living in it, we blacks have not shown any intelligence in that direction at all. I am so ashamed of this and sometimes feel that I ought to have belonged to another race.

Nigeria my dear country is a prime example of the inferiority of the black race when compared to other races. Let somebody please tell me whether it is a manifestation of intelligence if a people cannot organise a free, fair and credible election to choose who will lead them. Is it intelligence that we cannot provide simple pipe-borne water for the people? Our public school system has virtually collapsed. Is that a sign of intelligence? Our roads are impassable. In spite of the numerous sources that nature has made available to us to tap for energy to run our industries and homes, we have no steady supply of electricity. Yet electricity is the bedrock of industrialisation. When you agree with the school of Watson, some say you are incorrect because all these failures are a result of poor leadership. Why must it be us blacks who must always suffer poor leadership? Is that not a manifestation of unintelligence?

The rest of the letter may be found here: http://allafrica.com/stories/printable/200710250639.html
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
The rest of the letter may be found here: http://allafrica.com/stories/printab....html

aside from his claim that we've never invented anything-- it's rather tough to argue against many of his claims, as a whole.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
747400sp
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:52 am

As a Black man I can say, I rarely had to deal with racism.

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
I fear travelling sometimes because I know what is awaiting me at the airport.

The rudest treatment I ever had at an airport was given to me by a black bag checker at SFO.

YesI been bless, but in or generation, racism has improve since my parent was in their teen.
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):

Most of your post is what I have been thinking fort the past 2 years. I didn't know how to put it into words, but this is exactly my thoughts..
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 2):
some of this (the preferential treatment) comes from what whites think they need to show blacks... maybe because some of the extremest type of blacks

You have to put that into a longer term perspective. What one of the main "architects" of the preferential treatment for Blacks in the USA, Lyndon Baines Johnson, had in mind was that Blacks in the Deep South of the USA for decades, long after the US Civil War, had been kept out of good jobs, kept out of good education, kept out of the good seats on buses, kept out of uwardly-mobile society, etc. So that he felt that it was not sufficient just to secure equality but that some measures were needed to put them UP into a more equal position. He, as a Texan, was quite well aware of the anti-Black prejudices of many people and wanted to see measures to offset all this. He for this reason within a few years pulled through a number of social reforms, many of them along European lines. As is usual with reforms, some are splendid and others are scrap. LBJ unfortunately increasingly slipped into the Vietnam Debacle, as he otherwise might have achieved more than he did. And also unfortunately, HHH (Hubert Horatio Humphrey) lost out narrowly against Richard Nixon in 68, and RMN then concentrated on "law and order" and Indochina.
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The problem for many Blacks for instance was that whomever got a good position was swiftly denounced as being a "rata" man, just appointed in order to fill the required rata.
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So that many things have TWO sides.
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D L X
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:42 am

Oh I so don't want to get involved in this thread.... but....

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
The problem for many Blacks for instance was that whomever got a good position was swiftly denounced as being a "rata" man, just appointed in order to fill the required rata.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. If they weren't criticized as being rata, they would have been criticized for simply being Black. The status quo sucked, and being ridiculed as rata at least meant the guy had a good job. I've never understood that as a reason to attack AA.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your assessment.
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
What say you about this letter written by a Nigerian in response to the recent comments of the Nobel laureate suggesting that Blacks are intellectually inferior to Whites?

I Agree With Dr Watson

Well YOU simply wish to ignore factual history and embrace even greater ignorance. You must be a huge fan of Clarence Thomas and similar less-threatening and self-loathing blacks. This guy, Idang Alibi is bucking for Thomas-like acclaim (and is off to a great start).

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):

aside from his claim that we've never invented anything-- it's rather tough to argue against many of his claims, as a whole.

Surely you jest, Rush Limbaugh couldn't have delivered your reply any better than you. On the surface such claims appear to have substance but in historical context it becomes extremely clear 'now' is nowhere near what was...'

It's like saying the US has always been the most powerful nation on Earth.... umm NO.. historical context proves that is nowhere near correct. Same applies to said 'BS' claims-

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Why are we blacks becoming so reactive, so sensitive to any remarks, no matter how well-meaning, about our failure as a race?

Well Mr. Idang Alibi, whoever you are... had you been THAT reactive when the 1st Europeans arrived vs being so trusting and open...Nigeria might have been one of the most advanced nations on earth today. Again, history has all the answers to your questions...learn it-

Nigerian writer Idang Alibi, appears woefully ignorant of his own nation/continents history and is on one of two paths...

..he's either completely ignorant of Nigeria/Africa's own history and currently so distraught about todays misery and corruption..he thinks self-criticisms will liberate the locals from todays 'dog eat dog' mentality.

Or

He's seeking to score points and become the new 'Black guy' who can "fairly" criticize his own people, highlight their failings and call himself 'being honest/direct' about doing so (they type of black men conservatives love to embrace - as it yields a great mouthpiece to continue funneling false beliefs and stereotypes without getting 'tagged' as racists..because 'this black guy is saying it..'

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
But I do know that in terms of organising society for the benefit of the people living in it, we blacks have not shown any intelligence in that direction at all. I am so ashamed of this and sometimes feel that I ought to have belonged to another race.

That's right, hate yourself so much, you wish you were something else..because you fail to understand what brought your nation to it's current course.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):

Nigeria my dear country is a prime example of the inferiority of the black race when compared to other races.

If any nation went thru what Nigeria went thru.. the people would be just the same.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Let somebody please tell me whether it is a manifestation of intelligence if a people cannot organise a free, fair and credible election to choose who will lead them.

Someone needs to tell you how to break the cycle of deep-seeded corruption and unbridled greed. Nigerian lottery winners lately, anyone?

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
When you agree with the school of Watson, some say you are incorrect because all these failures are a result of poor leadership. Why must it be us blacks who must always suffer poor leadership? Is that not a manifestation of unintelligence?

Not true at all .. Philippines, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia...take your pick-

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
What one of the main "architects" of the preferential treatment for Blacks in the USA, Lyndon Baines Johnson, had in mind was that Blacks in the Deep South of the USA for decades, long after the US Civil War, had been kept out of good jobs, kept out of good education, kept out of the good seats on buses, kept out of uwardly-mobile society, etc. So that he felt that it was not sufficient just to secure equality but that some measures were needed to put them UP into a more equal position. He, as a Texan, was quite well aware of the anti-Black prejudices of many people and wanted to see measures to offset all this. He for this reason within a few years pulled through a number of social reforms, many of them along European lines. As is usual with reforms, some are splendid and others are scrap. LBJ unfortunately increasingly slipped into the Vietnam Debacle,

Your last line, ME AVN FAN explains why Johnson signed off the civil rights legistion that he did. Had he done the opposite - meaning - had he signed off on the Vietnam War 1st, then signed Civil Rights legislation... the Vietnam thing would have been a huge powerkeg politically across the nation. The Civil Rights Bills tempered that blow big time. It suckered Dr. King into going on Capitol Hill at the invitation of LBJ- given the nation a warm fuzzy feeling that it was turning things into the 'right direction'.. then KaBOOM -- the Vietnam War, it gave the conservatives even footing to make the case for war. Bur were the events reversed, King would rallied nationally against it and killing any chance of King/LBJ warm fuzzy photo op. As some of you know, in the chronological order of events (as it true happened) King did rail against the Vietnam sign off (after Civil Rights Bill) and that's when Civil Rights Champ LBJ turned and started calling MLK "that nigger Preacher"... and ever major publication that earlier lauded MLK for his Nobel Prize and achievements came unglued and trashed MLK relentlessly...nearly sending the man into a deep depression. Certainly causing him to now doubt himself -- Basically LBJ trumped MLK politically and played him like chump and won! It was a political checkmate move-

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 14):
the Vietnam War, it gave the conservatives even footing to make the case for war.

BUT, LBJ was a left-wing democrat, and NOT a "conservative". Beside the point that the USA in a way HAD to help the Republic of South Vietnam due to the obligations of the SEATO-pact, and the treaties taken over from the Brits in 1958-1962 in the East-of-Suez-Agreements, which btw. also included the military defence-treaty between Britain and the Emirate of Kuwait. So that I basically was in favour of the USA defending South Vietnam. HOW the whole thing, most of all from the political side, was conducted, THAT was the problem. First of all replacing Ngo Dinh Diem by politically inexperienced Air-Marshal Nguyen Cao Ky and later on by the intrigant General Nguyen Van Thieu were disastrous steps. And much more. The deposing of President Nordom Sihanouk of Cambodia and replacing him by dull General Lon Nol, done by the Nixon-Kissinger team, was even worse.
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santosdumont
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
Some who live in their glass houses or ideal environment may consider this a rant or a whine, its just actually the everyday reality of a black man

Indeed. It's inconceivable to me that in 2007 there is still a tree somewhere in Louisiana off-limits to Black kids and that Brazil's main television network is only now trumpeting its "first Black political commentator" in a nation that is second only to Nigeria in number of Afro-descendents.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
Dougloid
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 3):
Now that is acceptable behaviour. I mean my goodness we are in 2007, we all need to just grow the F up. Wouldn't you agree? And the problem lies with blacks and whites and whatever other races alike. We just have too many issues. We all need to get over it.

Modern Science has proven that we are all human with bodies morphologically the same, with slight differences thay may have to do with how we all evolved, living in distinct habitats ie.. skin colour, hair, body shape etc.. Ok I am going off on a tangent here, but you get the point..

I believe that the part of the human genome that accounts for the characteristics we call "race" is a relatively unimportant part of our DNA. In fact the construct of 'race' is more cultural than anything else.

We all bleed red, that's for sure.

The bones of Lucy, the first woman were found in Africa. That makes us all Africans.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
deed. It's inconceivable to me that in 2007 there is still a tree somewhere in Louisiana off-limits to Black kids

Well, you don't have to go to Louisiana. I can go ten blocks from here and find entire neighborhoods that are off limits to whites and asians-why, they'd get their asses handed to them in a grocery cart if they're there on foot when the sun goes down. That IS the reality, it really does work both ways.

As Pogo says:

We have seen the enemy, and he is Us.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
BUT, LBJ was a left-wing democrat, and NOT a "conservative".

Oh no he wasn't show me something in his Congressional tenure that potrays him as a 'liberal democrat' ... LBJ's track record is completely identifiable as that of Richard Russell or any other 'Dixiecrat'...

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
Beside the point that the USA in a way HAD to help the Republic of South Vietnam due to the obligations of the SEATO-pact, and the treaties taken over from the Brits in 1958-1962 in the East-of-Suez-Agreements, which btw. also included the military defence-treaty between Britain and the Emirate of Kuwait. So that I basically was in favour of the USA defending South Vietnam. HOW the whole thing, most of all from the political side, was conducted, THAT was the problem. First of all replacing Ngo Dinh Diem by politically inexperienced Air-Marshal Nguyen Cao Ky and later on by the intrigant General Nguyen Van Thieu were disastrous steps. And much more. The deposing of President Nordom Sihanouk of Cambodia and replacing him by dull General Lon Nol, done by the Nixon-Kissinger team, was even worse.
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No argument about the screw ups there...but this seems to contradict the SEATO approach.. it wasn't set up like NATO.

"Unlike the NATO alliance, SEATO had no joint commands with standing forces. Also unlike NATO, an attack on one member was not automatically considered an attack on all. Consequently, each member could effectively block any collective SEATO action. Given the declining interest of France (after 1954) and the United Kingdom (after the end of the Indonesian-Malaysian conflict, in 1966) in Southeast Asia, SEATO failed to be effective as a collective security organisation.


Because of the 1954 Accords settling the First Indochina War, South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos were not SEATO members. The United States sought, but failed, to make the Vietnam War into a SEATO collective defence problem."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEATO

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 16):
and that Brazil's main television network is only now trumpeting its "first Black political commentator" in a nation that is second only to Nigeria in number of Afro-descendents.

Exactly, today the upper levels of Brazilian society racism reigns supreme... it seems that on the most social levels it's nowhere near as big a deal vs the circles of 'the elites' -- where it is clearly an issue.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
PSA53
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
The black guy you assume that may be stealing is the one who is buying while the other guy is the shoplifter, but not many people see it that way. You are stereotyped and then given preferential treatment to make up for it.

Unfortunately in retail,that's true.Here's an example along the lines of stereotyping.Who are you more likely to
have your guard up from a white guys prospective in a retail store? A black man wearing ghetto fashion or wearing business casual.Answer.You are feel more nervous by the loud mouth,ghetto fashioned guy who you might feel as predatory. Looks have a lot to do in first impression and pre-judging much to quickly.

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 4):
but, let me point out that I'm in a conservative area, and most of the residents have a fairly nice income (for the zip code, the median income is $103,000). Please, don't label me as a rich white person, just because I said that.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 5):
The problem is that we (non-blacks) tend to see a rather mono-cultural perspective on blacks, thanks to the media.

I've been saying that for years in these forums but I am glad you see the media and how it stereotypes. So don't ever let me see you label the media 'liberal' again because the media is not liberal at all.

So,let me put this example in reverse.How do you feel about the media casts or sterotypes whites from a black man's perspective.Are we all,as Bagpiper put it, rich,all have homes in Beverly Hills(lol),and are highly suspect never to be trusted?
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BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 19):

Unfortunately in retail,that's true.Here's an example along the lines of stereotyping.Who are you more likely to
have your guard up from a white guys prospective in a retail store? A black man wearing ghetto fashion or wearing business casual.Answer.You are feel more nervous by the loud mouth,ghetto fashioned guy who you might feel as predatory. Looks have a lot to do in first impression and pre-judging much to quickly.

Yup...as the white or black guy 'wearing business casual'... is stealing you blind!

That's exactly how terrorist work too...like Pan Am 103, brown guy gives white blond girlfriend (unknowingly) the bomb...all security eyes are watching the brown-skin people = kaboom.

And it'll work like a charm today too! Racism (when in play) will trump common sense every time.


BN747
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 19):
How do you feel about the media casts or sterotypes whites from a black man's perspective.Are we all,as Bagpiper put it, rich,all have homes in Beverly Hills(lol),and are highly suspect never to be trusted?

I don't associate Whites with wealth.
Not all Whites are rich. Everyone knows that.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
And it'll work like a charm today too! Racism (when in play) will trump common sense every time.

 checkmark 
Well said!
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PSA53
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 19):
How do you feel about the media casts or sterotypes whites from a black man's perspective.Are we all,as Bagpiper put it, rich,all have homes in Beverly Hills(lol),and are highly suspect never to be trusted?

I don't associate Whites with wealth.
Not all Whites are rich. Everyone knows that.

Bad choice of words.I meant it as an open question for discussion.
I've known you to long to ask you a closed question like that.My bad.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
swiftski
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:20 am

I got accused of racism today.

A guy at work (one white, one black parent) was bouncing around and waving his hands in the air, very excited about a big launch we had. He's only young so was clearly being quite hyper. I said "(name) you're jumping around like a monkey, chill out, it's only a product launch"

He said this was a racist comment and that I was therefore racist against all Blacks, and that he was going to mention it to our (mutual) line manager.

Personally I think it is ridiculous for him to say that. Thoughts?
 
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seb146
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
The problem lies in the treatment you are given without reason. See its somewhat difficult if you're not black to understand. You are receptive to all yet when you are in other circles, you are a threat.

That is how I (white) am treated when I am in a Black majority neighborhood. I get looks and am made to feel very uncomfortable. I can get "in" with Latinos because I speak Spanish and they let down their guard a bit when they see I am "safe." But how can I get an "in" with Blacks? I just happen to live in a different neighborhood and grew up in a podunk town.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 23):
Personally I think it is ridiculous for him to say that. Thoughts?

I think he should have taken you aside and said something first. I had a similar situation years ago. I called everyone "chief." One co-worker was Native American. She said it upset her when I called someone "chief" because she felt it was a slur against her and her people. I explained how I only saw that as a term like "bro" or "dude" but I stopped. Not a big deal and took all of five minutes.
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cfalk
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 23):
He said this was a racist comment and that I was therefore racist against all Blacks, and that he was going to mention it to our (mutual) line manager.

Personally I think it is ridiculous for him to say that. Thoughts?

I'd tell him to get a life.
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captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17):
I believe that the part of the human genome that accounts for the characteristics we call "race" is a relatively unimportant part of our DNA.

Yes, but I referring to the differences we note from race to race, differences that scientist claim to be the result of evolution of the human species under varying conditions.

But as I also mentioned, we are all human, exactly the same species.
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MCOflyer
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:03 am

I like working with African Americans as they are talented and can be very nice. In addition, some of the nicest people I have met were black and I get offended when people are racist against them. They are as equal as anyone else.

Hunter
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:40 am

I like black people but I do not like "niggas". By "nigga' I mean those who live the stereotypical black lifestyle of rap, drugs and crime. Those are the ones who I can and admit to being "racist" against. It's not the skin color that puts me off, it's the whole mentality of these people. Be them white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. If not for the actions of black "ganstas" and rappers I think black people would have a much better image.

[Edited 2007-10-26 20:46:23]
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captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 28):
I like black people but I do not like "niggas". By "nigga' I mean those who live the stereotypical black lifestyle of rap, drugs and crime. Those are the ones who I can and admit to being "racist" against. It's not the skin color that puts me off, it's the whole mentality of these people. Be them white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. If not for the actions of black "ganstas" and rappers I think black people would have a much better image.

I grew up in the caribbean, I am black and I lived on an island mostly populated with black people. Among that population you can encounter good people, hard working people, normal families, and there are people who are just messed up. But that can be said for any race, any country, any city, regardless of their skin color/race/origin. What some americans consider 'white trailer trash" do they represent all the white people in America? WHy sould people consider 'gangstas'/'rappers' the representative group for black people? I hope that you are referring to black people in the USA, otherwise I take great offence upon hearing that the "stereotypical black lifestyle" is that of rap, drugs and crime.

I mean see the point you guys are getting and yes the rappers aren't helping the situation, but it's quite sad to see that in 2007 people even think like that.

"I like black people, but I don't like niggas (meaning the messed up black folk)" i mean that shouldn't even be said. You should say you don't like people live "X/Y" form of life.

I know it is a different ball game in the US where blacks are considered a minority group, as compared to my country where blacks are the majority but I am truly dissappointed and sad that black people have such a reputation.
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BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 28):
Be them white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. If not for the actions of black "ganstas" and rappers I think black people would have a much better image.

You're quite young and clearly lack depth in understanding of what's going on. A month or so ago, an A.net member posted that he was beaten senseless by a gang of young guys YOUR age and younger - white kids. Do you know how many gangs like that exist in every city on the planet? ...Including yours? And it's been going on before you were born. So do you 'hate' gangs of kids who loiter on street corners as well...or does their look not frighten you because of their skin color?

If 'gangstas & rappers' make black people look bad now according to you -- what made them look bad before you were born? In the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s etc...? Answer, the same thing that's doing it now, the media. A gang of black kids standing around rapping, doing drugs is no different than a gang of white kids doing the exact same thing -- difference is..across America, there are larger numbers of white kids doing things are they are the majority population. Your original post is aimed at blacks specifically and calling them niggas and such while you ignore other 'gang' activity...place you freshly in Racism 101.. ahead of the class. You might wanna check again at who it is you 'hate'...and why.. ...because your aim is way outta focus-



BN747
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jetmech
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):

Racism is a funny old thing isn't it? Many times I have seen people who really are racist sprout off the absolute virtue of certain people, and the absolute dis-virtue of others purely by the colour of their skin, and the "race" associated by that colour. In my experience however, I have found that good and bad exists in all "races". Not one single race has exclusive claim to any characteristics whether they be considered good or bad. Honesty, kindness, honour, intelligence and their diametric opposites are a feature of each and every skin colour grouping. So what exactly is the mechanism of racism? I have thought often about this and have the following explanation, which although simplistic, works for me, so here goes.

Primarily, I think it comes down to how a human being interacts with reality. Able bodied humans have five main faculties for perceiving and interacting with reality, they are sight, hearing, taste, touch and smell. Sight is probably our most important sense, and the one we use to the highest extent in our daily lives. It would thus only stand to reason that a large contribution to how we perceive reality is through what we see.

Thus, it makes sense to me that we instantly make perceptions about others based on what they look like. From far away, skin colour is something that is easy for our eyes to perceive and thus we make a judgement on this factor initially. Closer up we can make out facial structure and we thus make an additional judgement based on that. Most of us will only really get to know a very, very small percentage of the people we pass by on any given day, so lacking in depth information about an individual, coupled with the dominance of the sense of sight only makes it likely that we will judge strangers based on appearance, with skin colour being a major factor.

The key to it all however, is what we associate with what we see. I can only speculate that a large part of how we perceive different races comes from conditioning as we grow up, whether this be parents, siblings, friends, relatives, teachers, media, personal experience and general upbringing and environment. It also depends on the individuals personality and psychological makeup as well. An individual may have negative experiences with a certain race, yet never end up baring ill will to that race, whilst another may never have a bad experience with a certain race yet they may still become very hostile to that group.

If all humans were of a single homogeneous colour, whatever that may be, would racism be eliminated? To me it would certainly eliminate colour as a factor of differentiation amongst humans, but I'm not sure if it would eliminate discrimination based on perceived differences.

For some reason, humans have an innate need to classify, group, differentiate and seek advantage. In modern society, this often manifests itself into a "they have this, how come we don't" attitude, or "us and them" and on a more benign level, a "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" and "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude. Perhaps part of the reason humans like to group and differentiate is that it helps our minds deal with the vast complexity of modern society?

If skin colour was removed as a differentiating factor amongst humans, I believe that we would move onto other means of dividing groups of people which are not based on such obvious factors such as what we can see. A good example is Northern Ireland. Here we are talking about a very physically and culturally homogeneous group of people, yet they have been fighting tooth and nail amongst each other for ages. The stupid thing is they are fighting over something as artificially man made as religion! An individual has no say in their skin colour, whereas with religion, you have complete freedom of choice for both initial participation and the branch you wish to follow! You can instantly turn from a "good guy" to a "bad guy" by simply choosing to be Catholic or Protestant, which aren't exactly diametrically different religions in the first place!

So there are my thoughts, simplistic be they may. They only real way we will ever illuminate differentiation based on race is tolerance, understanding and interaction.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 25):
I'd tell him to get a life.

Of course you would say something like that. Why am I not suprised.  Yeah sure

Quoting Captaink (Reply 29):
You should say you don't like people live "X/Y" form of life.



Quoting BN747 (Reply 30):
Your original post is aimed at blacks specifically and calling them niggas and such while you ignore other 'gang' activity...place you freshly in Racism 101.. ahead of the class. You might wanna check again at who it is you 'hate'...and why.. ...because your aim is way outta focus-

Captaink & BN747:
 checkmark 
Very well said.  yes 
Perhaps JAGflyer just wanted to get it out of his system and say it in a way in which he couldn't get banned. Same for Cfalk.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
Bad choice of words.I meant it as an open question for discussion.
I've known you to long to ask you a closed question like that.My bad.

No worries. You get a free pass this time.  Silly
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 28):
I like black people but I do not like "niggas". By "nigga' I mean those who live the stereotypical black lifestyle of rap, drugs and crime. Those are the ones who I can and admit to being "racist" against. It's not the skin color that puts me off, it's the whole mentality of these people. Be them white, black, hispanic, asian, etc. If not for the actions of black "ganstas" and rappers I think black people would have a much better image.

That there is a bit offensive. When I see the rich White people, I'm not racist against them and call them honkies just because they are rich. They have a different lifestyle than I do and I should respect that.
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Superfly
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 33):
That there is a bit offensive. When I see the rich White people, I'm not racist against them and call them honkies just because they are rich. They have a different lifestyle than I do and I should respect that.

Perhaps JAGflyer is a White version of a "nigga"?  scratchchin 
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):

Perhaps JAGflyer is a White version of a "nigga"? scratchchin

I guess that's what I was trying to get at..
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 18):
the declining interest of France (after 1954) and the United Kingdom (after the end of the Indonesian-Malaysian conflict, in 1966) in Southeast Asia, SEATO failed to be effective as a collective security organisation.

-
France NEVER was in SEATO. The U.K. however in case of Malaya succeeded in the fight against the Communists.
-
 
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seb146
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 28):
I like black people but I do not like "niggas". By "nigga' I mean those who live the stereotypical black lifestyle of rap, drugs and crime. Those are the ones who I can and admit to being "racist" against. It's not the skin color that puts me off, it's the whole mentality of these people.

I didn't know how to approach this. I tend to watch myself around people with the "gangsta" look. IMO, the white ones tend to be more aggressive than blacks, but they still look menacing. If someone is dressed well, I don't pay much attention to them, but if they are dressed like a thug, I keep an eye on them for my safety.
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AGM100
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
See its somewhat difficult if you're not black to understand. You are receptive to all yet when you are in other circles, you are a threat. Some will see that as paranoia, but again I say experience is s hell of a teacher.

Well said , it becomes pretty hard to teach your children about racism when their example of it is the KKK and Slave traders. Racism is far more sinister and glossed over by church going people who appear so nice.

One thing for sure is this is not just a American problem , every human being on the face of the earth is racist in some way. Just like every human being on the earth is capable of murder . What separates us is those who are able to contemplate their feelings and act in a civil manner.
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captaink
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 37):
I didn't know how to approach this. I tend to watch myself around people with the "gangsta" look. IMO, the white ones tend to be more aggressive than blacks, but they still look menacing. If someone is dressed well, I don't pay much attention to them, but if they are dressed like a thug, I keep an eye on them for my safety.

And that is well expected. I too would feel uncomfortable around 'gansta' looking people regardless of their race. And guess what, I am black..
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Dougloid
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 33):
That there is a bit offensive. When I see the rich White people, I'm not racist against them and call them honkies just because they are rich. They have a different lifestyle than I do and I should respect that.

Perhaps JAGflyer is a White version of a "nigga"?

See, that's where it gets down to words and context.

I could say to a white person, I am the son of a redneck Florida cracker (which happens to be true, and it didn't stop him from working his way through MIT), and that would be a true statement.

But if a black man had the chance to roll that around in his mouth a little and get a real taste of it (knowing what he knows about life and culture and experience), it'd come out dripping with context. Same way as black folks might call each other 'niggaz' but if this white boy said the same thing it'd have a totally different context and meaning.

See, like Dr. Eric Berne used to expound on a few years ago, there's what you SAY and what you MEAN when you say it.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 40):



Unfortunately, as they appear equally offensive in context...they are not.

A double standard exist. It exist because it flowed completely in one direction for 100s of years...

For years, whites could/did call blacks derogatory names to their faces...

...and blacks could do nothing about it. If/when they did some paid with their lives.


For years, white media could/did call blacks derogatory names publically...

...and blacks could do nothing about it. If/when they did some paid with their lives.


For years, white officials/legislators/congressmen could/did call blacks derogatory names openly...

...and blacks had to take it and could not retaliate...


So as words as they are, the history behind their usage carries great weight..however most would prefer you NOT know that, so you can assume they are equal contextually as far as offence goes-


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Dougloid
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):
So as words as they are, the history behind their usage carries great weight..however most would prefer you NOT know that, so you can assume they are equal contextually as far as offence goes-

I wasn't suggesting that they're equal contextually, but what you're suggesting is relativism with a soupcon of self pity and payback-equally self interested and therefore as suspect a motive as the ones held by all those white folks who said all those terrible things way back a long time ago.

That's an equally invalid viewpoint unless you would like people to keep apologizing forever for the sins of somebody's fathers-which do not happen to be mine by the way, unless you want to make fisher folk and irish canadians the oppressors. I mean, if you care to you can buy into the notion of collective guilt but I must warn you it's intellectually and morally bankrupt, and I won't sit still for it any more than you would.

What I was pointing the finger at is that who says "it" is as important as "what is said" to "whom" in the ultimate reaction it draws and the intent of the person doing the saying of "it".

This notion applies, really to anything that is susceptible of more than one meaning.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
BN747
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
I wasn't suggesting that they're equal contextually

That's exactly what you were referring...

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
but what you're suggesting is relativism with a soupcon of self pity and payback-equally self interested

Piss poor attempt by YOU to try an flip history to into some 'woe is me' BS spin.

What I posted is 100% historical fact and no amount of white-washing by you to disguise it, flip it, shake it...will negate it.

History was EVERY SINGLE WORD of the above, and it's meaningful impacts survive behind usage of such terms today.

You only come off looking like a fool trying to be defensive in the way you just did and attempt to 'rewrite it as something else'..

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
therefore as suspect a motive as the ones held by all those white folks who said all those terrible things way back a long time ago.

Oh yeah...so long ago, that's the ignorance it's 'wrapped in'...why such polarization survives this very day.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
That's an equally invalid viewpoint unless you would like people to keep apologizing forever for the sins of somebody's fathers-

It's far more valid that 'your "Reply 40" OPINION... I know in your world, your opinion outweighs historical fact, hopefully that foolishness will remain close to said 'Dougloid apple and Dougloid tree'.

Apologize forever? What apology except for the RECENT Virginia Legislature has occurred? What the hell are you talking about? Have you apologized for anything? Certainly not..besides, who wants you to? It's not about you or your grand moments in muse.

Bush posthumously awarded Civil War Vets for their service 150 years ago... Is that not recognition not warrant for something that happened along to ago (your method of attempting to diminish it's impact)?

When any President does that he does so on behalf of the Congress and the nation.

So if Civil War veteran-deeds can be officially recognized and honored... and that for 4 years of service of less...

..then is it not RIGHT in the vein of justice to 'OFFICIALLY recognize and honor' the people who gave their entire lives - by force' to make the United States the riches nation on earth.

IF YOU value and respect the service of a war veteran of that era, the you must by sheer default, pay homage to all those who's lives were taken by brute force to empower the nation for all those years...yes, so long long time ago. If you can't do, won't, don't feel that is necessary, then US Gov't who officially does honor those vets of long time ago..must also extend official 'honor and recognition AND apology' to all those who were damaged. Because they all now fall within the same span of time.

Yes, those Posthumous awards set precedence ...for greater recognition for a greater sacrifice. Which derserve more than your dismissive 'it happened a long time ago' rhetoric.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
which do not happen to be mine by the way, unless you want to make fisher folk and irish canadians the oppressors. I mean, if you care to you can buy into the notion of collective guilt but I must warn you it's intellectually and morally bankrupt, and I won't sit still for it any more than you would.

Boy, you jumped off the cliff in guilt with that one...but then, you tend to do such things even when they are far far from necessary.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
So if Civil War veteran-deeds can be officially recognized and honored... and that for 4 years of service of less...

..then is it not RIGHT in the vein of justice to 'OFFICIALLY recognize and honor' the people who gave their entire lives - by force' to make the United States the riches nation on earth.

IF YOU value and respect the service of a war veteran of that era, the you must by sheer default, pay homage to all those who's lives were taken by brute force to empower the nation for all those years...yes, so long long time ago. If you can't do, won't, don't feel that is necessary, then US Gov't who officially does honor those vets of long time ago..must also extend official 'honor and recognition AND apology' to all those who were damaged. Because they all now fall within the same span of time.

if there is one thing that gave the US an "unfair" advantage was plentiful resources, vast areas of land, and free labor.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Dougloid
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RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
I wasn't suggesting that they're equal contextually

That's exactly what you were referring...

I didn't know you were a student of Kreskin. How did you figure that out? Prestidigitation or osmosis? Because all I see is letters on a screen.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
but what you're suggesting is relativism with a soupcon of self pity and payback-equally self interested

Piss poor attempt by YOU to try an flip history to into some 'woe is me' BS spin.

Basic ad hominem attack. Don't like the message? Slag the messenger.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
What I posted is 100% historical fact and no amount of white-washing by you to disguise it, flip it, shake it...will negate it.

History was EVERY SINGLE WORD of the above, and it's meaningful impacts survive behind usage of such terms today.

Sources? Names? Dates? Places? Newspapers? Documents?

I didn't think so. Why let facts get in the way of a good rant?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
You only come off looking like a fool trying to be defensive in the way you just did and attempt to 'rewrite it as something else'..

And you sir, are a poor debater who can't do anything except call names when people disagree with you-which puts your ability to think logically and construct rational arguments in doubt.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Bush posthumously awarded Civil War Vets for their service 150 years ago... Is that not recognition not warrant for something that happened along to ago (your method of attempting to diminish it's impact)?

When any President does that he does so on behalf of the Congress and the nation.

So if Civil War veteran-deeds can be officially recognized and honored... and that for 4 years of service of less...

..then is it not RIGHT in the vein of justice to 'OFFICIALLY recognize and honor' the people who gave their entire lives - by force' to make the United States the riches nation on earth.

I'm at a loss to figure out what exactly you mean here. We weren't talking about Bush and the Civil War Veterans and whether they ought to be recognized or not. Are you asking ME a question about something, or are you preaching to the choir?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
IF YOU value and respect the service of a war veteran of that era, the you must by sheer default, pay homage to all those who's lives were taken by brute force to empower the nation for all those years...yes, so long long time ago. If you can't do, won't, don't feel that is necessary, then US Gov't who officially does honor those vets of long time ago..must also extend official 'honor and recognition AND apology' to all those who were damaged. Because they all now fall within the same span of time.

That's your argument....if A, then B. There's simply no connection between recognition of civil war veterans on the one hand and what, in your opinion, is due to other folks. So it's a lousy way of arguing what otherwise could be a good point, had you ever figured out how to do more than rant.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
which do not happen to be mine by the way, unless you want to make fisher folk and irish canadians the oppressors. I mean, if you care to you can buy into the notion of collective guilt but I must warn you it's intellectually and morally bankrupt, and I won't sit still for it any more than you would.

Boy, you jumped off the cliff in guilt with that one...but then, you tend to do such things even when they are far far from necessary.

Not guilt at all, and there ain't no 'boy' that I know of around these parts. In fact, I would suspect that if you are as informed about such matters as you seem to be, you deliberately chose that word. Which is a commentary on how your mind works and why I'm done with you.

 talktothehand 
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
What I posted is 100% historical fact and no amount of white-washing by you to disguise it, flip it, shake it...will negate it.

History was EVERY SINGLE WORD of the above, and it's meaningful impacts survive behind usage of such terms today.

Sources? Names? Dates? Places? Newspapers? Documents?

If you for one second -- at your age -- are questioning this...

For years, whites could/did call blacks derogatory names to their faces...

...and blacks could do nothing about it. If/when they did some paid with their lives.


For years, white media could/did call blacks derogatory names publically...

...and blacks could do nothing about it. If/when they did some paid with their lives.


For years, white officials/legislators/congressmen could/did call blacks derogatory names openly...

...and blacks had to take it and could not retaliate...

--and asking that those facts be sourced -- you don't belong in this discussion pontificating as if your some kind of expert on this particular social issue. Even if you are questioning any of it (as you are by asking for it to be sourced) you cannot offer any input deemed worthy of consideration or repect because you are denying history as sure as women were relegated to second-class citizentry as well - you might as well ask for sources on that one too while you're at it. Even Googling can't help you here. Your mind is already made up that it did not happen.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):

I didn't think so. Why let facts get in the way of a good rant?

The facts just cause you to react like a school child who cannot combat real FACTS tossed back at you.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 43):
IF YOU value and respect the service of a war veteran of that era, the you must by sheer default, pay homage to all those who's lives were taken by brute force to empower the nation for all those years...yes, so long long time ago. If you can't do, won't, don't feel that is necessary, then US Gov't who officially does honor those vets of long time ago..must also extend official 'honor and recognition AND apology' to all those who were damaged. Because they all now fall within the same span of time.

That's your argument....if A, then B. There's simply no connection between recognition of civil war veterans on the one hand and what, in your opinion, is due to other folks. So it's a lousy way of arguing what otherwise could be a good point, had you ever figured out how to do more than rant.

The most elementary of school children could draw the parallel of 'two events' that are inextricably linked while occuring simultaneously...yet one is recognized and honored at this late date...and the other is 'wished it would disappear and go away (as subtlely voiced with you with your 'long time ago argument'). Grab the nearest youngster and get him to 'explain it' (or break it down) to you.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):
Which is a commentary on how your mind works and why I'm done with you.

You're 'done with me' because frustration is anchored around your neck, by your own accord -- you obviously cannot reconcile why 150 years later actions of the Civil War can be honored and recognized... YET slavery having occurred the same time, goes 'mute' by the very same who choose reverence for the 1st and nothing for latter. And because YOU (personally) cannot criticize the posthumous honoring of Civil War Vets, AND your unbalanced beliefs won't let you demand equal recognition and honor for what the slaves sacrificed. Your wreckless 'something that happened along time ago..' has painted you into that corner of anger and frustration. You anger towards me is nothing more than an anemic disguise for unmasking a bogus attempt on your part to appear neutral, empathetic and understanding of everything discussed here -- when in truth, you're very very far from it. Any wise person knows you cannot solve or eradicate ills of any type (social aka racism..or otherwise) without addressing all related aspects -- including it's historical context... yes, even when it occurred a long time ago. And no matter how much you talk about/study/swap yarns about your redneck uncle or grandpa -- the history of this subject and these people are on a much much grander scale.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):


A double standard exist. It exist because it flowed completely in one direction for 100s of years...

So you are saying two wrongs make a right?


I think we as a nation have come a long way in the fight on racism but there is still work that needs to be done. I feel that the biggest problem that still presents itself is a lack of understanding. Many whites 'know' a few blacks and vise versa but they don't really KNOW each other so there is an element of distrust. Black and white neighborhoods are very different in many regards but very, very similar in others.

I have found that most of the racists in this country tend to be 35 and over. I attended a wedding as a groomsman earlier this year for one of my very good friends who is a preacher (and who happens to be black). Well, as it turns out I was the only white person there. When a few of the older black gentlemen came over to introduce themselves to us groomsmen, they would shake everyone's hand except mine, and looked at me as if I was from another planet. Was I upset? a little. Was I mad? Not really because I understand why they may not have wanted to talk to me, and I am ok with that.

White people are sometimes very guilty of stereotyping blacks. Is it because in their hearts they are racist? For most of them, I don't think so. That same woman clutching her purse may do that when any man passes by. If it IS because the man is black, I think it is probably because of a lack of exposure.

A long time ago on Anet we posted on this very subject and I told a long story on my best friend (who i consider my brother) happens to be black and how we met in the Marine Corps. Superfly may remember that post because I remember him being on the topic. Anyway, long story short, we are from totally opposite walks of life but we have used that to both of our advantages. My father helped him start an IRA and his father showed me how to fix my car by going to "Pull a Part" instead of a mechanic. Since then our families have grown to be almost one. There has been more than one occasion where he or I would cross racial boundries in a bad situation to support each other.

We will know racism is dead (for the vast majority) when we can laugh about it with each other and stop the racial labeling (i.e. African American) and consider ourselves just American. Some of the things that the media blows up and debates are totally stupid, and most younger people really don't care.

With that being said, I will say this: I have encountered far more racism against blacks in Texas than I have in my home state of Alabama where the population of blacks and whites is far closer to being equal. At more than one party I had to tell my white friends to cut the racist jokes out or i would leave because I don't believe in that shit. Are they really racist? I don't think so, but again it comes back to exposure and understanding.

I have more black friends than I do white friends, and most of them despise Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton because of their race baiting and antics. It is of their opinion (and mine) that their comments have done more harm to the fight against racism than it has good.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Who are you talking about?
Every Black person I know agreed with Bill Cosby's comments. Have you met a Black person that was angry at Bill Cosby's comments? I haven't.

I have, but as I noted earlier some whites do it too. Again its usually the older generations on both sides who have a hard time letting go (sometimes with reason).

Finally, as far as crime and gangs go, crime is an indication of poverty and you find it in poor areas regardless of race. As for fixing the poverty issue among the black community, thats another issue all together, but I think as a whole it is slowly getting better.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 47):
We will know racism is dead (for the vast majority) when we can laugh about it with each other and stop the racial labeling (i.e. African American) and consider ourselves just American. Some of the things that the media blows up and debates are totally stupid, and most younger people really don't care.

IMO, I think we should all be blind about race, religion, and ethnicity, that we will see each other as one, but thats a wild dream.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Racism - A Black Man's Perspective

Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:36 am

I'm with you Mbj but don't let anyone kid you into thinking being a white man is any better, i for one got so sick of the anti-white racsim I endured in the UK that I got the hell out....there is no place on earth where it is cool to be white anymore and the sycophantic efforts of the PC Lobby to enforce equality by reverse discrimination pisses off of my black mates as much as it did me.

On being referred to as "non-white" at a meeting my Carribean chum yelled "I am not NOT something...I AM something and that thing is Black....I got no problem with that...why have you?"

We had many beers over that one!!

But back to the topic, in countries where the rights of minorities are considered more valid than those of the majority (in a democracy??) you get discriminated against all the time if you're white, your culture gets insulted, minorities can call you all the names under the sun...commit crime and play the race card...the list is endless.

OK, its a different type of racsim from what you experience but trust me, its as bad and its govt sanctioned.

Don't get the impression that I am invalidatiing your views...quite the opposite, I agree that racism sucks big time and the real issues need to be dealt with.

Take NZ...Maori form 16% of the overall population but 80% of the prison population and that isn't because the cops are racist...heaps of them are Maori and the Maori population suffers from stereotyping as a result of these stats....what we need to deal with is why this stste of affairs exists and what we can do to ensure Maori do not fall into criminal ways.

London...I lived there....most street crime was committed by Black guys ( I worked with the stats), 89% gun crime was Black-on-Black....looks like a bad statistic and the stats create stereotyping but look deeper....most burglars were white at the time and yer average bank robber or big-time stick up artist (vans not people) was white and in areas where the lowest socio-economic demographic was white, you'd get most crimes of any type committed by white people...

So its society that's fucked-up, the lowest socio-economic strata commits the most crime, from wife-beating to muggings.....that needs fixing regardless of the cultures involved but while it is seen as a race issue it will never get fixed.

And in the mean time....Racsim Sucks!!!!

Regards,

Jafa39
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....

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