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ajd1992
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Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:39 am

 
dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:49 am

I'm a little confused about the article.

Have they found a "new" combination therapy or are they talking about the same old "cocktails" that have been in use for ten years or so.

With the cocktails, there has been no evidence that one is HIV free, just that it is undetectable in the blood stream. HIV tends to hide in the lymphatic system and as soon as one stops taking their meds HIV will return.

"With the latest advances in treatment, doctors have discovered that they can successfully neutralise the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)." What is the new treatment?
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ajd1992
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:56 am

I'm not sure... i just read about it on a different forum.

Neutralising doesn't mean getting rid of completely though, does it?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 2):
Neutralising doesn't mean getting rid of completely though, does it?

No, that is why the article says: The only stipulation is that patients begin and continue to follow their course of treatment. This to me suggests that HIV is still present and they are just suppressing it.

It sounds as if this is another way of treating HIV but not curing it.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:10 pm

"When the virus is halted in its progress, the number of healthy CD4+T cells begins to rise and patients, who would otherwise die from HIV, can now survive. The immune system is rejuvenated and is apparently able to normalise itself,"

Also, what I don't get from this article is the CD4+T information.

People with chronic HIV have a much lower CD4+T count (normal is usually between 500 and 1500), once people start HIV treatment their CD4+t counts go up, but they never really reach a sustained normal level. Does this new research imply that they are able to achieve a higher CD4+T count there by strengthening the immune system?
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 2):
Neutralising doesn't mean getting rid of completely though, does it?

No. It means "putting it into sleep", into a dormant-state which will eventually subside if the patient stops taking the drugs.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
Does this new research imply that they are able to achieve a higher CD4+T count there by strengthening the immune system?

Exactly. You need CD4+T cells (and all the subtypes) to have the complex cascades and pathways of immune response working properly. As soon as the T4 count increases, the whole system is boosted and begins functioning (almost) normally.

I think this is a big step. It is not a cure in a layman's point of view, but a tremendous achievement in a medical standpoint.

Alex
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 5):
Exactly. You need CD4+T cells (and all the subtypes) to have the complex cascades and pathways of immune response working properly. As soon as the T4 count increases, the whole system is boosted and begins functioning (almost) normally.

I think this is a big step. It is not a cure in a layman's point of view, but a tremendous achievement in a medical standpoint.

Alex

So, what is this treatment?
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
So, what is this treatment?

A combination of drugs. The latest papers on the subject recommend Tenofovir, Lamivudine, and Lopinavir/Ritonavir

(Loutfy MR et al. Randomized Controlled Trial of Once-Daily Tenofovir, Lamivudine, and Lopinavir/Ritonavir Versus Remaining on the Same Regimen in Virologically Suppressed HIV-Infected Patients on Their First PI-Containing HAART Regimen. HIV Clin Trials. 2007 Sep-Oct;8(5):259-68.)

Some other recommend Lopinavir-Saquinavir-Ritonavir (although this has brought about severe neuropathies)

Khanlou H, Valdes-Sueiras M, Farthing C. Peripheral Neuropathy Induced by Lopinavir-Saquinavir-Ritonavir Combination Therapy in an HIV-Infected Patient. J Int Assoc Physicians AIDS Care (Chic Ill). 2007 Sep;6(3):155.

other options include: Raltegravir, Darunavir (TMC114) and others.

You can look into more details on http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cheers

Alex
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BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:42 pm

Didn't the Gambian President already cure this ? He seems to think so.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 7):
A combination of drugs. The latest papers on the subject recommend Tenofovir, Lamivudine, and Lopinavir/Ritonavir

(Loutfy MR et al. Randomized Controlled Trial of Once-Daily Tenofovir, Lamivudine, and Lopinavir/Ritonavir Versus Remaining on the Same Regimen in Virologically Suppressed HIV-Infected Patients on Their First PI-Containing HAART Regimen. HIV Clin Trials. 2007 Sep-Oct;8(5):259-68.)

Some other recommend Lopinavir-Saquinavir-Ritonavir (although this has brought about severe neuropathies)

This is nothing new.

From my Doc, the head of ID at the U of Mich.

"Yes, I saw this article and agree that therapy reduces viral load, restores immune function, but does not eliminate the virus from the body (the statement that combination therapy knocks out HIV is misleading--they do not mean eliminate, they mean reduce.) PK"
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searpqx
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
This is nothing new.

It may not be new, but its certainly good to hear. We should never stop striving for an actual cure/immunization, but anything that lets those who are already infected live as normal a life as possible is good news. My only concern, and I'm guessing you share it, is that with each advance in managing the disease, the public urgency to cure it seems to go down. We can never forget that this, or any, cocktail isn't a cure, its only a stopgap.

Ironic - I just finished this post then saw my morning news. Shows just how wide the gap is between successfully managing the disease and actually curing it.
AIDS vaccine may have raised risk of infection
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — South African AIDS researchers have begun warning hundreds of volunteers that a highly touted experimental vaccine they received in recent months might make them more, not less, likely to contract HIV in the midst of one of the world's most rampant epidemics.

Couldn't have happened at a worse time/place either.

[Edited 2007-10-25 08:26:26]
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):
My only concern, and I'm guessing you share it, is that with each advance in managing the disease, the public urgency to cure it seems to go down. We can never forget that this, or any, cocktail isn't a cure, its only a stopgap.

I agree completely, and what's more is I am very angry with those that think HIV is a curable or manageable condition.

HIV is still a killer. It is often seen as a chronic illness, but it still will shorten your life. I am so angry that there are still new cases every year amongst young people that should know better, especially in the "west" were we have had massive educational campaigns for years.

Being HIV positive is a pain! Taking pills for the rest of your life, and not knowing what the long term consequences of these meds are, is a scary thought (one which I put out of mind in order to live my life).

Why I'm still here is a mystery. I'm going on 20+ years with this, and hope one day there will be a simple cure, but until then, I keep popping pills twice a day, getting my blood drawn every 4 months and living.
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flyingbabydoc
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
they do not mean eliminate, they mean reduce

See reply 5. No one has claimed (in the scientific world) that a "cure" for HIV as in complete elimination has been achieved. However, nullifying its action gives HIV+ individuals a chance for a long(er) future without the complications of the infections.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 11):
I'm going on 20+ years with this, and hope one day there will be a simple cure, but until then, I keep popping pills twice a day, getting my blood drawn every 4 months and living.

And I sincerely hope both of them happen (i.e. a simple cure and that you keep living). For a very long time.  Smile

Alex
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 2):
Neutralising doesn't mean getting rid of completely though, does it?

IINM, modern science has not verifiably been able to completely purge a retrovirus from a living host.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):
We can never forget

And yet so many unfortunately have. Even semi-pop-culture organizations (e.g. Treasure Island Media) out there activity attempting to promote HIV positivity as "the new Diabetes" and negativity as "the new virginity". Disgusting.
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OA412
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
And yet so many unfortunately have. Even semi-pop-culture organizations (e.g. Treasure Island Media) out there activity attempting to promote HIV positivity as "the new Diabetes" and negativity as "the new virginity". Disgusting.

Yeah I don't get it either. I remember reading through a web forum recently where the discussion focused on Treasure Island Media and similar outfits and was amazed by what I was hearing. That there are people out there who think it's hot to watch an HIV+ person performing bareback with a negative partner is beyond me. I realize that this represents a very small subset of our community but it still frightens me that people are being turned on by this kind of thing.
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EMBQA
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
Is it actually a cure?

Yes, but many in the world do not want to hear the direct and straight forward answer to this.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:10 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
Is it actually a cure?

Yes, but many in the world do not want to hear the direct and straight forward answer to this.

Did you actually read the responses here?

In case you did not, let me again remind you of what the head of I.D. at the University of Michigan in Ann
Arbor said about the article:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
"Yes, I saw this article and agree that therapy reduces viral load, restores immune function, but does not eliminate the virus from the body (the statement that combination therapy knocks out HIV is misleading--they do not mean eliminate, they mean reduce.) PK"
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EMBQA
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 16):
Did you actually read the responses here?

Actually yes I did.. and none of the above mentioned the number one, and really only cure. The 'root' cause for AIDS is that it is one of human behavior.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
Actually yes I did.. and none of the above mentioned the number one, and really only cure. The 'root' cause for AIDS is that it is one of human behavior.

Last time I checked this thread was not about sexual morals, but rather an article with a poorly written title.

And that assumption is also incorrect. There are still many people with us who became infected outside of sexual contact, so please take your sexual behavior theory to another thread.
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EMBQA
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 18):

And that assumption is also incorrect.

Please note I said 'Root' cause.
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Mike89406
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):
We can never forget

And yet so many unfortunately have. Even semi-pop-culture organizations (e.g. Treasure Island Media) out there activity attempting to promote HIV positivity as "the new Diabetes" and negativity as "the new virginity". Disgusting.

Yeah there are some twisted morals out there nowdays. There are some people that try to buy ARV's go clubbing and have unprotected sex.

If any of you have heard of the supposed supervirus in New York City the guy had very agressive strains becuase he had unprotected sex with hundreds of partners within a year while under the influence of Crystal Meth. Becuase of being infected with multiple strains this guy developed the virus and progresses to AIDs in a very short time because they strains he had were probably from various drug resistant strains (guys on different meds) which kept any drugs from really working at all.

It is true that quality of life for HIV+ persons is improving providing they fall in to certain catagories. Depnding on which strain/subtype is most important for determining what can be used as first line treatment if and when a individual falls in to the criteria for starting meds. People that usually have less agressive strains can usually start on Nucleoside/Nucleotide Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitors (NRTIs). Common Regimens for a person starting meds in decent health no resistance is Sustiva+Combivir, Sustiva+Truvada or both combined in to commonly known as the once a day pill called Atripla.
Some with resistant strains may need to start on Protease Inhibitors and have it boosted with Norvir.

Back to being a comparable to Diabetes condition it is true that if the patient adheres to his/her regimen this is one of the biggest reasons for treatment failure developing resistant from failed adherance. Using Recreational drugs especially Crystal Meth can do a huge whammy on the immune system for a short period dropping the CD4 count or T cells by hundreds also continuing practice of risky sex behavior contributes to infection of a different strain of the virus on top of what the postive person aleready has not to mention co-infection with another STD like Hepatitus, Herpes, Syphillus can do a lot more damage to a person that is positive. Other lings like drinking alcohol and taking meds can destroy you're liver in a quicker timeframe becuase of the toxicity of some meds.

There are other factors out there detremental to the persons health. Exercising, diet, sleep most inportant, getting flu vaccines etc... If the person is asymptomatic or non-asymptomatic. There are people that are HIV+ over 20 yrs and no development to Aids becuase maybe they did all the right things and the list goes on and on......

HIV gets a chronic conditon label because they may be basing the statistics on people with access to proper health care that also fall within the gold standard for treatment. The fact is if a person did all the right things then they would die of other life conditions long before HIV/AIDS could ever kill them however this can be misleading the ones that aren't always counted for are the infected are the ones living on the street, doing certain drugs, engaging in risky sex behavior after infection, not having proper access to medical care or medical insurance, inabilty to work. Being asymptomatic can make ot hard to lead productive lives but there are those that were told by they're docs back in the 80's-90's that they were going to die sooner or later and are alive today thanks to Protease Inhibitors or being able to stay healthy long enough. For some meds saved theire lives eventually.

Having said that it is true that cocktails are still around and there are those who take a x amount of pills a day but for the newly infected individuals there is hope with even more types of drugs and less pills a day as low as 1 a day or 2 this is decreasing the pill burden for some and a decent number are actually living productive lives now. I'm not saying everyone is like this, however before my text is taken out of context some have had prior HIV/AIDS related symptoms and are doing they're best to normally. But things are better than they were from what I hear from the 1st ARV drugs introduced.

HIV drugs are not a cure however they are becoming more tolerable (less side efects) nowdays if you comapre them to say AZT from the mid 90's. Now for those able to take the newer drugs they have the new Intergrease Inhibitors for those with stronger drug resistances or running out of drug classes.

Unfortunaley there is still a certain stigma about HIV/AIDS and still referred to as a gay disease (which is not true) or assuming certain things about those who are positive which in fact some people dont understand or dont know where science and the medical community is nowdays with HIV/AIDS. But there are people that know more than perhaps certain general practice doctors which is sad.

In closing the article is very vague and is nothing new in fact many vitamin companies prey opon those who have HIV claiming a cure or elixir etc...
 
JAL
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:38 am

A cure / vacinne for HIV would be one of the greatest scientific achievement!
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LAXspotter
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 21):
A cure / vacinne for HIV would be one of the greatest scientific achievement!

That is an understatement  Silly
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Mike89406
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RE: Cure For HIV?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
Quoting JAL (Reply 21):
A cure / vacinne for HIV would be one of the greatest scientific achievement!

That is an understatement

Even if they were to develop a therapeutic vaccine that is one big step a therapeutic vaccine is a huge 1st step and could be used on those that are positive and could possibly prove to be more powerful than the already powerful retriviral meds. Who knows it could eliminate the need for meds or limit the need for meds.

On a positive note research is ongoing and many new more powerful less side effect meds are being worked on as we speak. Therapeutic vaccines are being researched along with cure all vaccines. There have been ups and downs in research but eventually it will lead to greater things being developed.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 2):
Neutralising doesn't mean getting rid of completely though, does it?

IINM, modern science has not verifiably been able to completely purge a retrovirus from a living host.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):
We can never forget
And yet so many unfortunately have. Even semi-pop-culture organizations (e.g. Treasure Island Media) out there activity attempting to promote HIV positivity as "the new Diabetes" and negativity as "the new virginity". Disgusting

Just to clarify a little further despite the fact there is no cure science has come a long way maybe not as fast as they could but at one time HIV/AIDS was once considered a death sentence in the 80's-mid 90's nowdays thats not the case, however people are still dying it is happening more so in underdeveloped countries. So yeah people can still die from it however not all people have developed in to AIDS and AIDS doesn't mean you're necessarily going to die really soon it all depends on demographics and other factors.

My point not every virus is the same and each situation is different. They have managed to prolong life in some even improving the quality of life in some not so much in others and some are active healthy individuals tha may outlive me and you.

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