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b752fanatic
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Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:06 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7076670.stm

Yes, this was bound to happen, what would the US do now after creating a monster (Musharraf)?

Quote:
Musharraf imposes emergency rule

President Pervez Musharraf took power in a 1999 coup
Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has declared emergency rule, state-run TV has said, amid reports that police have surrounded the Supreme Court.
Judges are believed to be inside the building in Islamabad, reports say.

Troops have been deployed inside state-run TV and radio stations, while independent channels have gone off air.

Gen Musharraf is awaiting a Supreme Court ruling on whether he was eligible to run for re-election last month while remaining army chief.

Pakistan has been engulfed in political upheaval in recent months, and the security forces have suffered a series of blows from pro-Taleban militants opposed to Gen Musharraf's support for the US-led "war on terror".

The BBC's Barbara Plett reports from Islamabad that fears have been growing in the government that the Supreme Court ruling could go against Gen Musharraf.

Land and mobile telephone lines are down in Islamabad, reports say.

Private channels Geo News and Dawn News earlier quoted unnamed sources as saying the government had made up its mind to declare emergency rule. Shortly afterwards they came off air.

One TV channel reported that emergency rule may involve the suspension of the constitution.

Parliamentary elections are due in January - it is not clear whether they will go ahead.

Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, who recently returned to the country after years of self-exile to lead her party

.


[Edited 2007-11-03 07:07:23]
 
AirCop
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Interesting op-ed piece on the Washington Post web site wondering why Pakistan exists at all. It should be noted the writer is from Iran, but is the head of investment company so he is not speaking for the government.
 
Vega9000
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:38 pm

A nuclear state in turmoil. Now that makes me tremble...
 
andessmf
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting B752fanatic (Thread starter):
Yes, this was bound to happen, what would the US do now after creating a monster (Musharraf)?

Typical of you to throw an anti-administration hit whenever possible.

#1 - He first came to power in 1999. (Guess who was prez then?)

I still don't quite understand what is happening there.
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:42 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
Typical of you to throw an anti-administration hit whenever possible.

Did I mention anyone in particular? I said the US, in specific is our foreign policy which is again as we can see not too effective. Now, is it a secret that the Bush administration has given support to Musharraf? No I don't think so. Therefore please do not think that I am just bashing at this administration by showing how our policies abroad are so damaging. Please remember how we supported Saddam once.

As I said many times, the US shouldn't get involved in foreign issues, including wars, regime changes, etc. And that goes to all administrations dating as far as Truman.

[Edited 2007-11-03 10:45:29]
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:18 pm

Now immagine Pakistan under Zia ul Haq..
That would be far worse than Musharraf -one has to quantify evil inpakistan-and the current dictator is clearly less religiously blindfolded than Zia ( who had Bhutto hanged..)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:28 pm

India is keeping a very close watch on those Weapons.......
Tense times.
regds
MEL
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:06 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
Typical of you to throw an anti-administration hit whenever possible.



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
I still don't quite understand what is happening there.

Oh okay, so that is why you say that. For your info, Mush would have fallen years ago had it not been for the US and the West in general.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
India is keeping a very close watch on those Weapons.......

Keep up the watch, but you ain't getting your hands on that candy. lol

Here is what its all about:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7076670.stm

Remember the Chief Justice saga:

Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, who condemned the moves, has been replaced and is being confined to the Supreme Court with 10 other judges.

It comes as the court was due to rule on the legality of Gen Musharraf's re-election victory in October.

The court was to decide whether Gen Musharraf was eligible to run for election last month while remaining army chief.

The BBC's Barbara Plett reports from Islamabad that fears have been growing in the government that the Supreme Court ruling could go against Gen Musharraf.



And here is for the Mush propaganda

The text of the declaration of emergency says that Gen Musharraf has invoked emergency rule because of mounting militant attacks and interference by members of the judiciary.

It opens with a reference to the "grave threat" posed by the "visible ascendancy in the activities of extremists and incidents of terrorist attacks, including suicide bombings".

It ends by saying that the constitution is in "abeyance" - which, according to our correspondent, in effect means that martial law has been imposed, although there is not a heavy security presence on the streets.


There is nothing any govt can't do to stop terrorism. But do play along Mush's line and tell me how the threat of terrorism peaked to being unbearable very conveniently at the time of the Supreme Court's decision which was expected to go against the Govt (there had been statements from the judges probably off record suggesting that). And then the Marshal Law goes into effect, and ALL the steps taken by the Govt are to ensure its survival. Don't expect ANY step to be taken by the govt against terrorism using this so called Emergency.


I just woke up so I need to fill myself up on the news.
 
airxliban
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:11 pm

So I take it he is probably no longer considering giving up the army uniform...
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:17 pm

Just wondering, isnt the support of Musharraf against the US's alleged Policy of spreading Democracy throughout the world, or are there exceptions when those totalitarian government's are pro-US?  scratchchin 
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:03 pm

There's work to be done. A dictator to depose and oppressed people to be freed .... hang on one moment .... hasn't that been done before?
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:09 pm

The opposition in Pakistan is nothing to hope for. B Bhutto seems to be one of them but she is not so democratic either but she often speaks about it... Pakistan have never been a democracy and will never be one either. It is the military or political families that rule. Political families? Just like in the USA!
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 11):
The opposition in Pakistan is nothing to hope for.

I wouldn't write off the people of Pakistan quite yet. Yes they have forgotten to come out for over a generation but I expect all scums to be swept away should they choose to decide they have had enough.

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 11):
B Bhutto seems to be one of them

I like any Pakistani would take exception to that, she is a nobody who will become anybody if it leads to power. She is if anything, one of them. To be specific, she is THE WORST.

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 11):
It is the military or political families that rule. Political families?

Unfortunate but true, however the changes in the last decade or so make me optimistic that the status quo is in for some trouble.
 
AirCop
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
Typical of you to throw an anti-administration hit whenever possible.

Unfair statement AndresSMF.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
India is keeping a very close watch on those Weapons.......

Lets hope so. Hopefully war won't come.
Pakistan another great British idea, along with the Persian Gulf region.
 
airxliban
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Pakistan another great British idea, along with the Persian Gulf region.

I think Mountbatten would take offense to that, given how tirelessly he worked to try to keep India together. It was Jinnah who could not be swayed.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
great British idea, along with the Persian Gulf region.

The problems that we face today in the Middle east are all thanks to the British Empire, just look how they drew the maps. Look how they went about promising the Arabs self-determination and secretly signed sykes-picot treaty, look how they told Baron Rostschild that the empire would seek to find a home for the Jewish people with the phrase "a land without a people for a people with a land". Thankyou Britain, your legacy lives on.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 7):
Keep up the watch, but you ain't getting your hands on that candy

Jaaved Bhai....Hopefully No one gets their hands on them if you get what I mean.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 10):
There's work to be done. A dictator to depose and oppressed people to be freed .... hang on one moment .... hasn't that been done before

Sounds like Saddam,only Mush is still listening to Bush  Smile

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't write off the people of Pakistan quite yet. Yes they have forgotten to come out for over a generation but I expect all scums to be swept away should they choose to decide they have had enough.

Against an Army Dictator its going to be very tough.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Lets hope so. Hopefully war won't come

I don't think war is on the horizon,but in case there is threat to the control of the Nuclear weapons then there would be quite a few countries that would be concerned of the weapons landing in wrong hands.
Air strike could be an option.

Will the Pak cricket team return....


regds
MEL
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 14):
I think Mountbatten would take offense to that, given how tirelessly he worked to try to keep India together. It was Jinnah who could not be swayed.

Was that a joke? Are we talking about the same Great Louis Mountbatten who mounted the successful raid of Dieppe during the WWII? The textbook example of what not to do. Or the same Mountbatten who wanted to be the first leader (lol I don't know what he thinking while making the proposal) of the post British withdrawal from India. Or the same Mountbatten who must have thought he was among his own people when he was blown to bits. I don't know if even the British thought highly enough to give him a descent place to rest. Compare that to that of Jinnah, which is the most prominent landmark of Pakistan's biggest city. And look at the thousands who go there to pay homage to him still.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 15):

 checkmark 

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Jaaved Bhai....Hopefully No one gets their hands on them if you get what I mean.

Yes and I agree, sorry I sounded the way I did. I just get frustrated everytime all that others come up with is the same old same old.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Against an Army Dictator its going to be very tough.

Its never been easy for Pakistan as a country, though the people have had an easier time. Too easy and relaxed that they have forgotten to forced their will. Once they make up their mind to that end, it won't be long.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
I don't think war is on the horizon,

Pakistan is not interested in one, India I doubt should be either. I say this because we don't currently have that extremist Vajpaee in power. He would have jumped to the occasion, as he tried to snatch a time to catch Pakistan sleeping, he got his back side kicked and luckily he backed down.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Will the Pak cricket team return....

What do you mean? I doubt any cricket will be affected because of the events so far. Though the true reaction will be felt once the working week starts. The lawyers who protested when Mush ousted the Chief Justice had already announced they will resist the move to impose emergency and any Justice who accepts such a move.
 
GDB
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:58 am

OK, so the British Empire left some bad legacies, (but a lot of independent functioning democracies too), but enlighten us as to how the more supposedly enlightened US has done since............

Two million (civilians) dead in Vietnam, but not the desired result.
Dragging (illegally) Cambodia in, leading to the horror of Pol Pot.
Backing Nasser in Egypt, then panicking when he did not tow an assumed line.
Allowing Israel to go from a nation with, (much needed) adequate defence, to a regional superpower which does not shy from doing things against US foreign policy.
Backing the Shah and not having a clue he was about to fall. (The CIA seem perennially clueless).
Helping Saddam, being caught off guard when he also did not tow the line, giving Iran weapons in the 80's just to get a few hostages out of Lebanon.
Wondering why so many in Latin American cannot stand the US, (nothing to do with often backing, installing, very bloodily repressive regimes, well before the Cold War too, perhaps?)
Backing not just the fighters in Afghanistan against the USSR, but really favouring the most fundamentalist ones, (surely they'd not be against us Christians?)

None of these (off the top of my head) examples, says the US is evil, or bad, it is certainly not, just that criticising the then major world power, is a lot easier than actually being one.
I think you call it 'Monday Morning Quarterbacking'.

Oh, and Mountbatten was also involved in the most daring raid of all too, 'Operation Chariot', against the facilities at Saint Nazire, as well as combined ops in the Far East in WW2
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
us as to how the more supposedly enlightened US has done since............

I'm not US apologist, damn I need to stop flying the US flag. I'm the one constantly attacked for being un-american, terrorist, and all the other BS.

I think Ron Paul is spot on when he states US foreign policy has directed attacks against the US. The US foreign policy is the most hypocritical to its alleged policy of supporting democracy around the world. It rewards countries like India for being good allies, and on the same hand talking about non-proliferation. These double standards and hypocrisies are reprehensible.
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):

So your strategy to defend Britain's past is to point to the US record; Kinda suggests how empty of arguments you are.
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 19):
I'm the one constantly attacked for being un-american,



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 19):
damn I need to stop flying the US flag

Can you see why?!?!?!?!  sarcastic   boggled 

Dave
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 20):
So your strategy to defend Britain's past is to point to the US record; Kinda suggests how empty of arguments you are.

well he has good points, but I think he is trying to donwplay' Britain's influence in the world's affairs that are still felt today. Thanks to the great Winston Churchill's knowledge of Middle-east's cultural and ethnic groups.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 21):

There is a reason why, when you fly the US flag everyone thing youre a die-hard patriot, I'm not even a US citizen, so i could care less what flag I fly. Infact I'm tired of being called un-American, cause I'm not an American in the first place.
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
well he has good points,

No he has not. Not for when the topic is British legacy. What he said comes under American foreign policy. I am not implying he said something wrong, it was totally off topic.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
but I think he is trying to donwplay' Britain's influence in the world's affairs that are still felt today.

Britian today next to no more influence than a country the size of comparable economy etc. Talking about Britian an this turmoil its all about the past.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
There is a reason why, when you fly the US flag everyone thing youre a die-hard patriot

Well its probablity isn't it. Most Americans on this site tend to be that way, more than US average. So nothing special there. Its just that trying to dispell that notion, you should be extra careful not to come across as anti-American which die-hard ones could easily mistake you for.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 23):
it was totally off topic.

agreed

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 23):
Talking about Britian an this turmoil its all about the past.

We'll I meant to say that their genious policies during its heyday are still to be felt today. We can all thank Great Britain.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
Infact I'm tired of being called un-American, cause I'm not an American in the first place.

In fairness, you shouldn't complain considering you've admitted you came to the US purely for financial opportunities. Show respect where it's due and at the very least acknowledge that you don't show much balance in your feelings for a country you've chosen to live in.

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 11):
Pakistan have never been a democracy and will never be one either.

Understatement of the decade.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 9):
Just wondering, isnt the support of Musharraf against the US's alleged Policy of spreading Democracy throughout the world, or are there exceptions when those totalitarian government's are pro-US?

What's the point of even asking this when everyone knows the answer? Pakistan isn't even a particularly bad example - try Egypt or post-1975 Angola.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
- try Egypt or post-1975 Angola.

how about support the Apartheid Government of South Africa, yet the right-wing nuts seem to ignore or justify it.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
considering you've admitted you came to the US purely for financial opportunities

Yes, I admit.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:16 am

Admit what?... that you show very little balance in your opinion of the country which took you in?
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 27):
little balance in your opinion of the country which took you in?

Well, I came here as a child so I didnt have much choice. Ofcourse I do enjoy living here, but there are certain elements in society which I attack, I'm immediately labeled as a "Terrorist, Un-american", and the usual "why do you live here".
 
bravo45
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 24):
We'll I meant to say that their genious policies during its heyday are still to be felt today. We can all thank Great Britain.

Exactly!!! We are on the same page here.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 28):
but there are certain elements in society which I attack, I'm immediately labeled as a "Terrorist, Un-american", and the usual "why do you live here".

It is sometimes an unfortunate side to being a Muslim in this country, but we can realistically expect for it to get better. Though the topic we are discussing (this thread) is exactly one of the things that will make it more difficult.
 
airxliban
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 17):
Was that a joke? Are we talking about the same Great Louis Mountbatten who mounted the successful raid of Dieppe during the WWII? The textbook example of what not to do. Or the same Mountbatten who wanted to be the first leader (lol I don't know what he thinking while making the proposal) of the post British withdrawal from India. Or the same Mountbatten who must have thought he was among his own people when he was blown to bits. I don't know if even the British thought highly enough to give him a descent place to rest. Compare that to that of Jinnah, which is the most prominent landmark of Pakistan's biggest city. And look at the thousands who go there to pay homage to him still.

Sorry but for your information Mountbatten did not want the Partition of India. That is what we are talking about here. We're not talking about his military strategies in WWII or place of burial. But either way I'm not surprised that the Pakistanis think highly enough of Jinnah to make him a mausoleum - he did win them the country. Ironic though that the founder of a country that lives and breathes Islam was a person who loved his rashers of bacon in the morning and glass of whiskey in the evenings.
 
GDB
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:16 am

No former Imperial power left a great legacy, but also look at former UK Imperial possessions that are wealthy, functional democracies, there are plenty of them.
How is this, why have many, with on the face of it, maybe arbitrary borders drawn up in the same way, gone on to be successful, this is mostly in what was called the Far East, but not so often elsewhere?

So Mountbatten was supposed to be superman was he?
India wanted (and deserved) Independence, a WW2 shattered UK was not about to say no, besides the then Labour government had cited this as policy for over a decade before.
They wanted it ASAP too, but, if you have millions it seems, quite happy to slaughter their fellow nationals on religious grounds, the first chance they get, how to stop it?
Easy to blame the big bad Brits, saves having to look in the mirror, who actually did the killings after all?

Many of the more, with hindsight, dubious decisions were also taken while the UK was engaged in world wars, or in the immediate aftermath, not usually a good time for long term thinking.

I also have to chuckle when some imply the UK still thinks it's the great power, clearly they don't live here, don't really have a clue.
All the same, still a G8 member, UN Security Council member, the (inevitable) post WW2 decline long since halted.
Why has non former UK colonies like Mozambique, joined the Commonwealth, why is Rwanda trying to?
Funny how the French and Portuguese legacies always get a pass on this issue.

I know this, what really ended the British Empire, made de-colonisation being so rapid afterwards inevitable, was being totally bankrupted by 1941, by defending (alone after mid 1940), against the worst regime in human history.

Myself, I regard every land grab, expansion, call it what you will, by the newly Independent US, from it's ending being a colony, as Imperialism-you don't have to cross oceans to build an empire, calling it 'going west' still means someone else's land is being taken.
Not even including Hawaii, Philippines, and the 'it's our Imperial backyard' of the Munroe Doctrine.
US diplomats would chide UK ones, about 19th century British expansion, the reply was 'that would be about the same time as the Mexican wars then'.
FDR chided Churchill on the Raj, he would ask back, how the American Indians were doing.

The point is, no one is innocent, not in this world, and the ones who think they are, are often the most damaging.
 
Gman94
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:36 am

It's good to see the good old 'it's all Britain's fault' line being peddled out when people can't get along with each other.
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Air strike could be an option.

An Air-strike by foreign forces? Now that would cause a war!

How do you think Pakistani people or the government perhaps would react if foreign bombers entered their airspace and just bombed their land. You risk starting a war....

Also I don't know if you risk detonation of those nuclear bombs by blowing them up.
 
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flyingsikh
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:05 pm

Musharraf is the best thing to hit pakistan since sliced bread. Imagine Bhutto or Nawaz Sharif trying to hold that place together.

Some countries out there just cant live under a democracy...im sorry but they do exist. The civilian population in the country is too tribal, metality that those people have just doesnt work with the ideals of western styled democracy.

At the end of the day the best thing for Pakistan, India, and the rest of the world is to back Musharraf and hope/pray that he sticks around long enough till that country steps out of the backward relm it is stuck in. In a country where the supreme court has to be brought in to discuss if 4 male witnesses are needed to verify a rape is a legit is not a nuclear armed country I want to see being led by a weaked handed civilian govt too busy stuffing rupees into its own pockets..
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 17):
He would have jumped to the occasion, as he tried to snatch a time to catch Pakistan sleeping, he got his back side kicked and luckily he backed down.

Are you talking about AB Vajpayee,who was betrayed by Mushy with Kargil  Smile

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 33):
An Air-strike by foreign forces? Now that would cause a war

The Weapons need to not fall in the wrong hands thats the point.

regds
MEL
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:04 pm

Why cant we all just get along!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting FlyingSikh (Reply 34):

tend to agree with your post !
Westerners that never lived in Middle East/Near East countries have no clue as to how population perceive western democracy standards translated into their day-to -day life.
Arabs respect strong leadership as long as it leaves enough freedom for private business development,free travel,womens' rights respected .look at Morocco ,who has held truely free elections with a great level of responsibility.But that was only possible because the king did impose the right system !
I would not like to imagine Egypt,Algeria ,Syria or Pakistan with "western style democracy" implemented all of a sudden.
It would mean pure chaos,sharia run justice and legal systems,the position of women would further decline,civil unrest all over the place and the financial system would crash.
Most journalist who complain about lack of democracy in some countries should have sent spend some time in the "Democratic Republic of Congo" after the European let it lose....
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:00 pm

Interesting article in "Der Spiegel" ,in which the author explains that basically the people in Pakistan think the current ruler is far less corrupt as Bhotto's husband ,Mr. ten percent"or the previous "democratically elected"rulers...
The average Pakstani's don't really see any difference anyhow ,since the country does what the US tell them to do !
Many prefer an uncorrupt military ruler who manges the country ,economy and the army rather than a curropt clan like the Bhottos,who have laundered billions in the past.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,515294,00.html

[Edited 2007-11-04 10:22:54]
 
GDB
Posts: 14410
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:14 pm

It's strange to see, you have two nations, becoming independent at the same time, one stays a democracy, one only has fits of democratic government, with long periods of military rule.
Both have their internal problems, but for all that, India stays democratic.

Question, it is said that two democracies never go to war with each other, my history here is very vague, but was Pakistan democratic at the time of the 1971 war? I think it was.
What about 1965?
If so, what does that say about democracy in Pakistan?
Was the 1971 defeat, a shattering experience for Pakistan, a factor in the long periods of military rule since?
 
cakentennis
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:41 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 39):

Question, it is said that two democracies never go to war with each other, my history here is very vague, but was Pakistan democratic at the time of the 1971 war? I think it was.
What about 1965?
If so, what does that say about democracy in Pakistan?
Was the 1971 defeat, a shattering experience for Pakistan, a factor in the long periods of military rule since?


Firstly, I think Pakistan lost any chance of being a democracy when it was declared a theocratic state. Religion governs all politics in Pakistan. That's why they obsess themselves with Kashmir, which should just be an internal problem for India.

It's quite an unfortunate outcome for Pakistan. At the time of independence, I would have placed my bet on Pakistan being the more stable and efficient country. The majority of the people follow Islam, and the country is smaller in size with immense natural resources. They could have made it work...

The current situation seems to have been inevitable with the 'War on terror' only being a catalyst. The ethnic strife had already been building for over a decade and it was only a matter of time before the minorities became restless.
The biggest problem in Pakistan is that the education system is terribly adulterated. History in Pakistan is specifically skewed from fact to meet Pakistan's national interests.

I'm not worried about who's going to be in power next year, I just hope the emergency brings a curb to the religious extremism and Taliban.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 30):
Islam was a person who loved his rashers of bacon in the morning and glass of whiskey in the evenings.

Jinnah was probably just as secular or if not more than Kemal Ataturk.

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 32):
'it's all Britain's fault' line

It is  Big grin
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 10):
A dictator to depose and oppressed people to be freed .... hang on one moment .... hasn't that been done before?

Except this time the US and UK KNOWS he has WMD. And supoorted him in his efforts to get them.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16539
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 36):
Why cant we all just get along!!

Organized religion and money. But you knew that already.
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting B752fanatic (Thread starter):
what would the US do now after creating a monster (Musharraf)?

Nothing, as long as Pakistan remains willing to fight Islamists along the Afghan border, while its government holds the country together and prevents internal collapse.

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 4):
the US shouldn't get involved in foreign issues, including wars, regime changes, etc.

Give up the isolationist daydreaming. All that comes with the (superpower) job.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 8):
So I take it he is probably no longer considering giving up the army uniform...

It becomes clear now that Musharraf had in fact been planning to stay in uniform and put off the election.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting Viaggiare (Reply 44):
Nothing, as long as Pakistan remains willing to fight Islamists along the Afghan border, while its government holds the country together and prevents internal collapse.

ofcourse. The US is willing to support the most ruthless, barbaric dictator if needed to curb Terrorism, this is no different than supporting Dictators and installing puppet governments to oppose communism.
 
windshear
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 22):
There is a reason why, when you fly the US flag everyone thing youre a die-hard patriot, I'm not even a US citizen, so i could care less what flag I fly. Infact I'm tired of being called un-American, cause I'm not an American in the first place.

So you do not like the country which is currently your place of residence, fair enough...
It also seems like you have an itch for patriots (given your signature)... While your posts reek of Indian patriotism  scratchchin - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Boaz.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 46):
So you do not like the country which is currently your place of residence, fair enough...

If I didnt like it here, I would try to find another place to live.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 46):
itch for patriots (given your signature)...

The ones who are all symbolic, flag waving, get the F out of my country if you dont agree with me types. I'd rather fly the flag of my birthplace.
 
windshear
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 47):
I'd rather fly the flag of my birthplace.

Sounds like a match to me...   thumbsdown 

Boaz.

[Edited 2007-11-05 11:10:45]
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Official: Pakistan Under "Emergency Rule"

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 45):
The US is willing to support the most ruthless, barbaric dictator if needed to curb Terrorism

Well, you should at least be grateful that preventing Pakistan's internal collapse is high on your host country's agenda. Those estimated 100 nuclear warheads are there with India in mind.

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