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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 27):
If the thought of men putting their peepees up each others butts makes you feel bad....

To finish this sentence:
Then the United States Navy is not for you!  biggrin   wink   duck 

Quoting Fllcontinental (Thread starter):
I have homophobia and am not proud of it. It's not that I think that gays are morally repugnant but I just feel uncomfortable anytime I am around a gay. Does anybody else here share my fear?

Well, if I can offer some insight that might help, since I've gone 180 on this issue.

Since starting college, I've had a change of opinion on this. I used to be adamantly against gay marriage. In fact, at some Youth Government conference my senior year of high school, I even made the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" argument during one of the debates. I think a lot of my opinion then was the area of the country I spent most of my school years in (3rd grade through 12th grade) in the heart of the Bible-Belt, that is Central Georgia. So I was surrounded by a lot of people who not only thought gay marriage was wrong, but also, that homosexuality was a sin (though my beliefs never went that far). But fast forward through two-and-a-half years of college in there and some exposure to different things and some of your views change. For me, my stance on gays and gay marriage was one of those changes, and I'm no longer against gay marriage. I think it's time my fellow Republicans dropped the issue and moved on. Different people go through different things that make them see stuff differently. My cousin went through a similar change. His girlfriend's brother was gay and that was an eye-opener for him.


I will add though, I think a lot of it is media perception. The media doesn't show "normal, boring" gay people. They show the cross-dressers, "Dykes on Bikes", those who are often described as "flaming homosexuals". You know what I'm talking about, and I think it severely hurts the perception of gay people, and it helps drive this irrational fear of gays.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 99):
gay people are victims

I am only a victim of good taste, and nothing else.
International Homo of Mystery
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 100):
You know what I'm talking about, and I think it severely hurts the perception of gay people, and it helps drive this irrational fear of gays.

Like having an irrational fear of straights based on the portrayal of not-so normal heteros, but I understand what you are saying.
You can't cure stupid
 
LH423
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 45):
Whoa there! I'm assuming that your basing that upon observartions of American gays, no? I'm afraid to say it, but Americans in general have piss-poor taste, alot of it due to the crap available to you

Yes, because H&M was such a great contribution to global fashion!  Wink  duck 

North American gays tend to dress much better than the average citizen. Not opinion, but a fact!

Personally, I don't think it's wrong that you feel homophobic. That's your choice. I just hope you're not feeling that way out of ignorance. It's one thing to not like something because you've tried it and decided it's not for you than to just assume you don't like it. Now, I'm not saying you should go out and shack up with a guy. That's not what I mean by "trying" it. But get to know some gay people. You live in FLL, it won't be that hard  Wink

If, through day-to-day interactions you meet some gay people and still decide you're uncomfortable around them, then you have your answer. As a society, we're not forced to like everyone. We run into problems when we open display our dislike for certain segments.

You're certainly going to have to push your limits. Chances are, you know a gay person or you know someone who knows someone.

But, at the end of the day, you're still uncomfortable...hey, what can ya do. I won't hold it against you. We can't be all things to all people. Again, as long as you're not outwardly manifesting hatred towards gay people, I really could care less what people think of me. Frankly, I'd rather people judge me on the merits of my personality than the sex of the person with whom I share my bed.

LH423
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foppishbum
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:46 am

I personally believe everyone is discriminative to a certain level...and that's fine unless the person cross the line and become actively hating someone/something. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and free speech. To some extent, most of my family members are homophobic and some knows about my lifestyle but we still live in harmony as long as we don't get into heated debate about what's sin and what's not. When I lived in the dorm I had a homophobic roommate (at least I think that's why he moved to another building). I didn't feel offended or anything and the only reason I was pissed was that he didn't inform all of us (I lived in a suite style dorm but I was the only homo) until we received e-mail from the school about his moving out. When I see those activist protesting about gay marriage and stuff, I don't really feel anything...it's not like they can change who I am. Well, I've lost my point...hahaha. Most people who are homophobic are afraid of the stereotypical gay guys. My friends over here in Davis didn't have the slightest idea about my sexuality because I love planes and cars and talk/look straight except for my "well-dressed-ness".    Some other gay guys even look/talk straighter than straight guys...thus the "straight acting" sub-group of homosexuals. Chances are, someone you've worked with or have talked to someone who is gay before except you didn't know and there's no need to bring that up.


You are entitled to how you feel but just don't go out and punch a gay guy. Most people here have given good advices and most of them really works. Desensitisation is the key word!  

Quoting LH423 (Reply 103):
North American gays tend to dress much better than the average citizen. Not opinion, but a fact!

Nice! 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 99):
Um, gay people are victims.

Nope. At least not me.   But thanks for the pity anyway   

P.S. There is a pretty good article by Jonathan Roauch titled In Defense of Prejudice. He talked about prejudice against homosexuals. Gays should read it too!  Here's the link: http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_...in_defense_of_prejudice/index.html



Peace,
foppish bum

[Edited 2007-11-06 20:15:59]
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jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 99):
Well, if one values equality in society, then it is obvious what is right.

Is it? Can one side say the other is morally bankrupt and be right with any certainty? you're just fogging the issue here....what if the majority in society thought gay was bad and therefore morally bankrupt?...if anti-gay was the societal norm...the example you set will let you down badly there. Anti-Gay and pro-Gay sit exactly even in this case as each is merely a point of view based on preference, neither has more validity than the other.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 99):
No, by teaching future generations such thought.



Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 73):
, its the difference between internal dialogue and external acts



Quoting N1120A (Reply 99):
How, if you keep your views to yourself, can they "spread through society by other means"?? and I want a straight answer if you'll excuse the pun......

They teach their kids, they spread their opinions, society gets permeated and discrimination happens.

Ahem....if they keep their views to themselves they wont be telling their kids....don't assume that all straight people indoctrinate their kids...as a youthworker of many years I wish some parents would actually spend more time inputting on their kids lives...teach them some boundaries and respect.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 101):
I am only a victim of good taste, and nothing else.

Show us your shoes Westy!!  Wink
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AeroWesty
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 105):
Show us your shoes Westy!!  



 duck 
International Homo of Mystery
 
jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:09 am

Well, well, well......yup....you're Gay  Wink
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gkirk
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:33 am

Just think of it this way, if people want to be gay, then let them be. Just leaves more women for us straight people  Wink
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foppishbum
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just leaves more women for us straight people

Let's not forget the lesbian population  tongue  hahaha
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LAXspotter
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just leaves more women for us straight people

survival of the fittest, competition of the species  Big grin
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jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just leaves more women for us straight people

There...and i thought you were a sheep man!  Wink
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bwest
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just think of it this way, if people want to be gay, then let them be. Just leaves more women for us straight people

If only it was a free choice... at leat then you could blame gays for something, yet how do you blame somebody for how he is born? Maybe we should go after the parents, they obviously mismatched the genes when they made their son/daughter....
 
kmh1956
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 73):
Why, why, why do people keep trawling up this BS...you can understand gays completely and still not like them, I hate this idea that to not like something means you don't understand it......I am a youth worker, the more i understand young people, the less i like them, and oddly enough that makes me more effective in my job.

Nowhere in my post did I say that understanding gays is going to make this guy like them, but perhaps understand them better, and in understanding he may lose some of his fear. You ARE aware that the word 'phobia' means 'fear', right?

And BTW.....if you dislike youth so much, why are you working with them?
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
helvknight
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just think of it this way, if people want to be gay, then let them be. Just leaves more women for us straight people Wink

Making yourself a bit of a hostage to fortune there, Kirkie  Smile
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atct
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 73):
Actually they needn't be, you can think that homosexuality is wrong but be mature enough not to discriminate, its the difference between internal dialogue and external acts....the pro-gay PC lobby wants to control people's internal dialogue and that is just wrong.

Thank you.

ATCT
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SBBRTech
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
Perhaps you are intimidated by their shoes.

What is that about gays and shoes?
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ajd1992
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 90):
being a Priest is also considered straight

I'm not a priest, i'm an atheist!  Silly

I'm asexual, it seems to be. Basically i don't have any sexual attraction to anybody, and i don't find people physically attractive. I'm only attracted to personalities. Much like a girl, but more extreme.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 108):
Just think of it this way, if people want to be gay, then let them be. Just leaves more women for us straight people

At least from my friends, a lot of people don't want to be gay, because of school, family, or friends. I can sympathise with that, people just know me as a bisexual, and i get an awful lot of stuff done to me (Not so much any more, but i have had things said to me.... i'm not a violent person, but it makes my blood boil. I've only ever hit somebody twice for calling me a dirty gay or whatever, coincidentally, it was the same person... enough said.) Things like that make you want to be different, like for example, being overweight, you want to lose the weight. Unfortunately you can't lose "gayness" and a lot of people i know hated it for a while.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 93):
Hey Bray....if his answer to the above was "Because the things they do to each other disgust me" or "I just feel sick to think of two men kissing and rubbing" what would your reaction be?

Oh I have NO problem with this whatsoever: everyone's morals are different and I wouldn't want to inflict mine on others, any more than I would want them to inflict theirs on me. We are all entitled to our likes and dislikes, and I would not in a million years bring my maiden aunt to a gay pride event or anything else that might give her a mild heart attack. There are some things some people do not need to know.

FIIcontental's post is interesting, as he quite admirably admits that he is not proud that he feels uncomfortable around gays. This leaves the door open for a possible change of mind on the matter, which I find very encouraging.

But there must be a reason for him feeling uncomfortable around gays. Maybe it's as you say: he doesn't like the idea of two men or women fumbling around with each other's genitals, or maybe it's for some other reason.
 
kmh1956
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:04 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 117):
Basically i don't have any sexual attraction to anybody, and i don't find people physically attractive. I'm only attracted to personalities. Much like a girl, but more extreme.

Maybe it's just because you're so young, and haven't quite reached that stage yet.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
ajd1992
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 119):
Maybe it's just because you're so young, and haven't quite reached that stage yet.

Relatively speaking, i am quite young but i'm half way through my teens. I'm 15, and not having a sex drive at 15 isn't exactly considered normal. I've never really had one in the first place.
 
777236ER
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 86):

Yes.

Well then. You are homophobic, and all your petty attempts to semantically argue with the thread-starter is some strange attempt to justify your bigotry.
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NWA742
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 121):
Well then. You are homophobic, and all your petty attempts to semantically argue with the thread-starter is some strange attempt to justify your bigotry.

Oh I see.......because you didn't get the answer you wanted, you can only sit there and continue on with the namecalling. And you have the nerve to call ME the bigot in this situation? Do you not see the incredible hypocrisy on your part? Now I know you're a loyal member of the PC lobby that Jafa has been talking about, but there's simply no excuse for this one, and you know it. Just take 5 seconds and ask yourself who is the real bigot in this scenario? Who is the intolerant one? Use your HEAD.

And please, get over yourself. Learn to understand the fact that not everybody is going to confirm to your views. Anyone can sit in a desk chair and call people names on the web...if you think you're actually making a difference or helping your cause, you are more than off.




-NWA742
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kmh1956
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:01 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 120):
I'm 15, and not having a sex drive at 15 isn't exactly considered normal.

Honey, I'm 51...and I never had one in my teens either.....but later? Watch out!!! You may just be a slow developer, as I was.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
777236ER
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 pm

Why did you not come out (so to speak) and admit that you were a homophobe before going on a strange quest to try and prove that homophobia was a semantic oddity. This isn't about political correctness, it's about tollerance and respect. Bigotry is wrong, and homophobia is just as bad as racism. You're not exercising any 'right to be non-PC' as if it's the nasty liberal left that's stopping you being rightfully homophobic, you're going against the traditions of freedom and liberty that the West was founded on.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 122):
Just take 5 seconds and ask yourself who is the real bigot in this scenario?

You, because you find something wrong with homosexuality. It's not a difficult concept.
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TS-IOR
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:30 pm

It's not a pride, and it shouldn't be a shame too ! There is nothing wrong in being homophobic, just keep it for your self, for your belief... and don't cry it loudly... and don't let this feeling drive you to misbehaving with homosexuals ! Keep the distance, and if the contact is necessary then keep the respect...
 
NWA742
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
Why did you not come out (so to speak) and admit that you were a homophobe before going on a strange quest to try and prove that homophobia was a semantic oddity.

Never admitted I am a homophobe. Learn to read:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 14):
I'm not gay, I hold nothing against gays, I'm not afraid of them, and the entire subject is highly irrelevant and meaningless to me.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
This isn't about political correctness, it's about tollerance and respect

Both of which you have none of with regards to people who's opinions differ than yours.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
Bigotry is wrong

Then why are you highly bigoted towards my opinions?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
homophobia is just as bad as racism.

You're entitled to that view. I on the otherhand would hardly equate being afraid or uncomfortable with a concept that isn't your cup of tea to the notion that one race is superior to another.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
You're not exercising any 'right to be non-PC' as if it's the nasty liberal left that's stopping you being rightfully homophobic, you're going against the traditions of freedom and liberty that the West was founded on.

Speechless with this one.  rotfl 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
You, because you find something wrong with homosexuality.

 rotfl 

So I guess you don't understand the definition of a bigot?

big·ot
-a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion

Just because I find something wrong with homosexuality doesn't make me a bigot. It doesn't make me homophobic, either. On the other hand, the fact that you have such an obsessive problem with me having a different viewpoint than yours, that makes YOU a bigot. As said before - I hold nothing against gay people - I have had gay co-workers and classmates whom I respect and got along great with. I am not hostile towards them, I hold nothing against them, and I am not a afraid of them.

Of course, none of that matters to you. You're all out for namecalling and trying to confirm others to your "tolerant" views, when really you're the most intolerant person posting in this thread.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 125):
There is nothing wrong in being homophobic, just keep it for your self, for your belief... and don't cry it loudly... and don't let this feeling drive you to misbehaving with homosexuals ! Keep the distance, and if the contact is necessary then keep the respect...

This is what I really don't understand.

Just because someone is gay, why should you keep distance and avoid contact. You could be missing out on good friendships and good times (Platonic of course).

It just seems stupid to avoid getting to know someone because they are gay. It's your loss.
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777236ER
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:54 pm

At least the thread starter admitted he was a homophobe in his first post, without spending a dozen posts trying to defend himself then admitting he's a homophobe.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 126):

Just because I find something wrong with homosexuality doesn't make me a bigot.

big·ot
(bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


bigot

Main Entry:
big·ot Listen to the pronunciation of bigot
Pronunciation:
ˈbi-gət
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French, hypocrite, bigot
Date:
1660

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance


No, of course finding something wrong with homosexuality doesn't make you a bigot! Just like finding something wrong with black people doesn't make you racist!  sarcastic 
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express1
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting Fllcontinental (Thread starter):

yep i share your fear,i feel sick when they start talking in the way gays do and i don't hang about,so i move,or just leave.

dave
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting Express1 (Reply 129):
i feel sick when they start talking in the way gays do

That is such a gernerlization, that sickens me!
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NWA742
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 128):
At least the thread starter admitted he was a homophobe in his first post, without spending a dozen posts trying to defend himself then admitting he's a homophobe.

And where did I call myself a homophobe?

I mean, did all of the following just fly right past you?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 14):
I hold nothing against gays, I'm not afraid of them, and the entire subject is highly irrelevant and meaningless to me.



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 126):
On the other hand, the fact that you have such an obsessive problem with me having a different viewpoint than yours, that makes YOU a bigot. As said before - I hold nothing against gay people - I have had gay co-workers and classmates whom I respect and got along great with. I am not hostile towards them, I hold nothing against them, and I am not a afraid of them.

Guess so. Seems like I was spot on with this one, eh?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 126):
Of course, none of that matters to you. You're all out for namecalling and trying to confirm others to your "tolerant" views, when really you're the most intolerant person posting in this thread.

---

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 128):
big·ot
(bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Exactly - like you. Strongly partial to your own views and intolerant of those who differ.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 128):
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance

Exactly - like you. Intolerantly devoted to your own opinions and prejudices.

And where have I treated any homosexuals with hatred or intolerance? Do you really understand what you're saying? You are trying to equate seeing something wrong with homosexuality to being hostile and intolerant towards homosexuality. It doesn't work, 777. It makes NO SENSE. I see many things wrong with liberal politics, but I am very tolerant of them having their views. Get it?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 128):
No, of course finding something wrong with homosexuality doesn't make you a bigot! Just like finding something wrong with black people doesn't make you racist!

Hmm.....I figure only people that share your thought processes would actually think that analogy makes any sense. Hopefully there's not too many, for world's sake.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 113):
And BTW.....if you dislike youth so much, why are you working with them?

Because they'll be running the country when I'm too old to fight back....someone's gotta invest in our youth to preserve what little is left of our future.

Youthworkers who "understand" young people or (horror of horros) "have a heart for young people" usually produce no meaningful outcomes and although i am not particularly enamoured of young people I do understand the awful battle they have to go through to gain identity and self-esteem...but to help them get there you have to be pretty cynical as GenY are masters at "spin doctoring" so they'll have you believeing that "tagging" is art, and gangs are "cool".

To try to overcome the lack of boundaries and respect that many of these poor kids are brought up with (dragged up more likely) it is vital to get through the hubris and all the cloaking devices they use to pretend life isn't crap and some of those "personas" are vile, I've been attacked, set fire to, had my car vandalised (as have many of my colleagues), the difference is, I don't defend that behaviour, I try to rectify it and my track record is pretty darn good.

I spend $500,000 and more each year bringing them back into the real world, not my own money but if you looked at the hours i work and the salary I get....it might as well be  Smile

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 118):
bring my maiden aunt to a gay pride event

I'd pay to witness that  Wink
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ajd1992
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting Express1 (Reply 129):

yep i share your fear,i feel sick when they start talking in the way gays do and i don't hang about,so i move,or just leave.

dave

"In the way gays do"?

I know people you would assume were straight at first glance. You can't talk gay, you can't talk straight. I've been told (remembering people know me as bisexual, because i can't be arsed explaining what asexual means to my entire school year) by people i wasn't out to that they would NEVER have guessed i was bi, because i portray a very masculine image, i guess. Deep voice, well built, has a lot of guy friends, all that. In saying that, around girls i act more effeminate because i know i can get away with it. I don't have a camp voice, but my mannerisms change.

A generalisation, but i've noticed your age group is 36-45. Homosexuality was illegal up until 1967, and a mental condition until about 1975 (Don't quote me on that last one though). Times change. At the very least, try to be a bit more accepting of them. It's like a gay person not going near straights because they "act/talk like a straight" (whatever that means).

Get this, i'm considering going to a CATHOLIC 6th form. Call me insane, but it's a good school. They need to be accepting, and they're pretty much against it. I'm sure you can manage it too.

 Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 131):
Exactly - like you

What in God's name are you on about? I tollerate you, I'm not asking for your homophobic posts to be deleted, I'm not asking for you to be locked up, I'm not saying you're wrong to hold your opinion.

Don't try and wriggle out of this. By your bizarre logic people opposed to racism are bigots because they don't agree with racists!

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 131):
You are trying to equate seeing something wrong with homosexuality to being hostile and intolerant towards homosexuality.

Replace 'homosexuality' with 'being black' and see whether your sentence makes the same sense you think it does.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
1stfl94
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:15 pm

Speaking as a gay man I do find homophobia reprenhensible because it presents another form of bullying. I was lucky in that parents and friends were accepting of me coming out but I know people who have been disowned by their parents because their sexuality whilst I've experienced verbal abuse.

Actually come to think of it, in my experience homophobia is like racism. I never chose to be gay, I had relationships with girls but in the end always knew that I was attracted to guys and since I came out I've been far happier. Similarly you don't choose what race you are so why should you be treated any differently because of that.

Finally there are only a few gay people who actually conform to the gay stereotype, the majority of them are just ordinary people who want a normal life.
 
Doona
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 124):
you're going against the traditions of freedom and liberty that the West was founded on.

The "West" wasn't founded on the traditions of freedom and liberty, for crying out loud. The US might have been, but England, Sweden, Germany etc were founded on religion and monarchy, and military prowess, among other things.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 123):
Honey, I'm 51...and I never had one in my teens either.....but later? Watch out!!! You may just be a slow developer, as I was.

I am straight, but i have question for gays. When did you discover that you are gay?
 
NWA742
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 134):
What in God's name are you on about? I tollerate you

Oh really? Repeatedly insulting me and calling me names simply because I don't share your own views is tolerant?

  

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 134):
I'm not asking for your homophobic posts to be deleted, I'm not asking for you to be locked up

No, but that's censorship you're talking about, not tolerance........just because you're not out to censor my views doesn't mean you're exactly tolerant of them either. Tolerance deals with showing respect for and understanding the right for others to have opinions different than yours. You have shown no such respect.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 134):
By your bizarre logic people opposed to racism are bigots because they don't agree with racists!

Wrong. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you a bigot. Being highly intolerant or disrespectful towards a person of differing creed, belief, or opinion than yourself makes you a bigot, by it's simple definition.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 134):
Replace 'homosexuality' with 'being black' and see whether your sentence makes the same sense you think it does.

That was the point of the sentence.........it says that what you are doing makes no sense. That is, equating seeing something wrong with *insert subject* to being hostile or intolerant towards the same *insert subject.*

Sorry, but the two are not the same. Again, I can see many things wrong with liberals and their beliefs - but I can also respect their differing views and thus tolerate them and not act hostile towards them.

In your book, I guess that's not possible.


...but that's your book.



-NWA742

[Edited 2007-11-07 13:31:09]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Doona
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 137):
I am straight, but i have question for gays. When did you discover that you are gay?

I was 19 when I "discovered" it. Before that I'd not really picked up on anything indicating that I might be gay, I'd been with girls before that, and always been a little uncomfortable in romantic/sexual situations, but I'd just assumed that was because of self asteem issues or whatever (realizing later that whatever happened between me and a girl before had mostly been me doing what I thought I should be doing, even though I didn't feel any real attraction to them).

Then I started college and almost immediatly found myself incredibly interested in a class mate, thinking that he was the best friend I ever had, wanting to spend as much time with him as possible, etc. I struck me after a couple of months that I was actually in love.

No biggie really, as previous experiences suddenly made sense. Everybody, except my above-mentioned friend, has been really supportive since I came out.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
777236ER
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 136):
The "West" wasn't founded on the traditions of freedom and liberty, for crying out loud. The US might have been, but England, Sweden, Germany etc were founded on religion and monarchy, and military prowess, among other things.

Speaking for the UK, the liberties and freedoms modern Britain was founded upon come straight from the Magna Carta of 1215, and even earlier from Henry I's Charter of Liberties in the 12th Century if you want to go further back.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 138):
Wrong. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make you a bigot. Being highly intolerant or disrespectful towards a person of differing creed, belief, or opinion than yourself makes you a bigot, by it's simple definition.

If you're going to start talking about definitions, did you even read the definitions I posted? You are prejudiced against gay people - you think because of their sexuality they are wrong and they are doing actions that are wrong. You're a bigot.

Whilst we're on the definition track, let's look up homophobia in Meriam-Webster:


Main Entry:
ho·mo·pho·bia Listen to the pronunciation of homophobia
Pronunciation:
ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə
Function:
noun

: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Can you explain why you have aversion to homosexuality? Or is it based on something irrational like religion?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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foppishbum
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 137):
I am straight, but i have question for gays. When did you discover that you are gay?

Hrm, I've known that I'm gay since I was a little boy like 5 or 6. Don't ask me how...I just knew. I never, like really, never, found girls sexually attractive and I never ever even imagined doing it with a girl (or getting married with a girl); never had a girlfriend too but I have LOTS of girlfriends Big grin to the point a few straight guys from my high school were jealous. That being said, I didn't "categorise" myself as being gay until I was in fifth grade and I had my first relationship when I was in sixth grade (he was in high school) though the "bf" I had is now straight.  tongue  See? It's impossible to "convert" someone.




Peace,
foppish bum
TPE X LAX X NYC :airplane:
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:51 pm

I think it depends by what you mean by, "wrong" when asking your question.

If you mean victimising, hateful, rash, malicious, then no. I think to be homophobic is not neccessarily indicative of these traits.

If you mean disconnected, socially without confidence, insecure, unable to relate to people, then yes, and most homophobes I have met have one or all of these

I have seen homophobic people put their careers on the line because they are unable to get comfortable with just being around gay people. I would strongly advise getting on the bandwagon!!
 
NWA742
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
If you're going to start talking about definitions, did you even read the definitions I posted?

Yep, and it's quite evident I understand them better than you.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
You are prejudiced against gay people

No, I am not. Prejudice involves unfavorable and unreasonable opinions that stem from ignorance and/or hostilty.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
you think because of their sexuality they are wrong and they are doing actions that are wrong

Thank you for throwing words into my mouth and telling me what I think. Look towards the beginning of this thread - Klaus did the same thing to me and it didn't work out either. Very weak arguments.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
You're a bigot.

Seeing something wrong with homosexuality doesn't make you a bigot, by the very simple definition of the word. Being intolerant and hostile towards people who don't share the same views as you makes you a bigot. You're a bigot.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
Can you explain why you have aversion to homosexuality?

I don't. And since we're so dictionary happy right now, look up aversion:

Aversion - a strong feeling of dislike, opposition, repugnance, or antipathy. Distaste, abhorrence, disgust.

You tell me where I've shown aversion towards homosexuals. Let's see it.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 140):
Or is it based on something irrational like religion?

Oh boy you sure do shine your arrogance with this one. Religion is irrational only in your opinion. Don't speak of your opinion as fact.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 134):
By your bizarre logic people opposed to racism are bigots because they don't agree with racists!

You, technically speaking, he may have a point there.... Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 144):
technically speaking, he may have a point there

Eh.........he would have a point if "bigot" was defined as disagreeing with something, but it isn't and therefore he not only lacks a point, he doesn't make any sense.  Smile



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 143):
Seeing something wrong with homosexuality

Can I ask you honestly what you see wrong with it? If it's too personal, I totally understand. And I respect your answer even though I probably won't agree with it  Smile.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
jafa39
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 145):
Eh.........he would have a point if "bigot" was defined as disagreeing with something, but it isn't and therefore he not only lacks a point, he doesn't make any sense

Yeah..... someone who hates gays is a bigot....someone who hates racists is a bigot...the word isn't a value judgement, its a descriptor  Wink
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
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bwest
Posts: 1134
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RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 137):

I am straight, but i have question for gays. When did you discover that you are gay?

Can't really say it's a discovery... I always, as long as I can remember, was more interested in boys then in girls. At first I didn't ofcourse realise that I was different from the majority. When I started to understand that I was probably gay, at around 14 years or so, I didn't have too much problems with it myself, I accepted it for myself. I did wait quite long to come out of the closet though. Though Belgium now has one of the most liberal laws towards gays, this hasn't always been the case and I also come from a region known to be rather conservative... So I kept it hidden for the people around me, heck I even tried getting a girlfriend, though I knew it wouldn't work.

Anyway, finally I decided that it wasn't worth liing a lie and denying who I was, and thus far haven't got any negative reactions, not even from my super macho work environment  Smile
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Is It Wrong To Be Homophobic?

Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 146):
Can I ask you honestly what you see wrong with it? If it's too personal, I totally understand. And I respect your answer even though I probably won't agree with it

Well I tend to see it as morally questionable, and I can't help but find the concept of a man being sexually active with another man disgusting. I don't feel the need to apologize for this belief, just as I feel gay people should not have to apologize for being gay.

Now to a couple of members on this board, the above somehow makes me an intolerant, bigoted, hate-filled homophobe, and I think that's bullshit. It's just more of the same crap from the PC lobby that likes to throw out insults trying to get others to confirm to their "tolerant" views when really, they are the most intolerant ones to begin with.

Besides, what's most important isn't whether or not people conform to one set of ideas regarding homosexualty or any other highly controversial topic.....instead it's how they behave with their beliefs and respect their fellow human. For instance, despite my beliefs regarding homosexuality, I will never act hostile or hold anything personally against you, as a person, for being gay.

I hope that satisfies your question.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs

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