Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9
 
LASoctoberB6
Topic Author
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:47 am

I just found this thread God Vs Science (by Palladium Nov 19 2006 in Non Aviation) and Do You Believe In God? (by Go Canada! Aug 30 2001 in Non Aviation) as I was questioning my own faith in God. I had a week long discussion to myself about a month ago deciding whether or not He was really somewhere up there, or just a strong belief. I decided that there is no God to me. This world is just too scientific, just to solid. Why I chose to believe that? Well, it's very hard to explain, but it makes more sense to me each and everyday. I tend to be on the more logical side of life and I cannot let myself really believe that there is someone up in the heavens watching over our lives. After years of going to church, reading scriptures of how life works and the lessons we learn, they (to me) were simply written down by someone(s) who had gone through every problem in the Bible. I do, however, believe in Karma. I've noticed that that's just the way life goes. I'm trying to make as much sense as I can, but it's just so complicated. I'm really sorry if I wasted your time, but I just wanted to see if any beliefs had changed such as mine from the above thread and what you believed in. Is it that I think into things too much? I guess you could say I'm a bit lost in the religion section of life, but doubts that my opinion of His existence is real...  frown   pessimist 
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
FighterPilot
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:27 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:56 am

My short answer.. No.

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
FLYB6JETS
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:05 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:01 am

Good luck with the karma aspect. I find the world makes less and less sense each day personally.
"If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!"
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:10 am

Religion is very personal. For a group of people to say "let's shove it down someone's throats..." is very bad. God is just a word. The idea of God is very personal. I am a Protestant Christian. I say those that want to pray to Allah 5 or 6 times a day should. I admire that. I believe that where two or more are gathered in his name, there is love. The church I grew up in follows the teachings of Jesus which is, pretty much, be kind to everyone and live how you are in church. God (Or Allah, or Yaweh, or whatever name you give Him) is complex. He created us in his image. He created. If He created, we should be grateful for what He has created. We will not know until the end how complex He is. Through science, we are always testing Him and finding how wonderful He is. I think about things like quantum mechanics, but at the end of the day, He is and that is just the way He wants it. Doctors say things and help, but so does He.

There is too much out there to rely on science. Our science can not explain EVERYthing. Faith can. Faith that there is something more than just this rock spinning around one star. Faith is people walk around. Faith is people die. Science is even based on faith. Faith is "will this equasion work" or faith is "will this drug will knock out that virus." I have faith there is so much more out there. I am thankful I have faith. Even if we don't call all Him by the same name, I am thankful I have faith.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:11 am

Yes.

You're post is no longer too short.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:17 am

I can't go flying on a clear night, looking at all the stars, and not believe. It all makes sense up there.

Yes.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:19 am

I try to hard to believe in the existence of a supernatural power, but its quite difficult, I'm probably an Agnostic, at best a Deist.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:22 am

I love this threads...

Science is science and religion is faith. I do not believe the two go hand in hand. I believe in God. I have no scientific proof he exists, but I have my faith that he does. And that's it for me. Mixing science and faith is not a good idea, in my view.
 
sw733
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:25 am

I used to but...since my dad got sick and died in the last year...no, I don't, not anymore. Rather...perhaps there is a God, but he/she isn't a just, fair, and great person/spirit/being.
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:27 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

No. I'm not saying there isn't anything beyond this universe, I simply believe that I wont find out untill I die, so why waste my already limited time on earth with trying to find out something I can't.

Quoting FLYB6JETS (Reply 2):
I find the world makes less and less sense each day personally.

Lately I actually feel pretty much the same way. To me the whole world is just becoming a large gongshow, filled each day with fewer and fewer things that actually make sense...


CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
LASoctoberB6
Topic Author
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:35 am



Quoting FLYB6JETS (Reply 2):
I find the world makes less and less sense each day personally

That too, is also true from a different aspect.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 3):
Our science can not explain EVERYthing. Faith can.

To me, science can. And if we come to a problem in which science cannot explain, then we turn to faith which is no better than being faced with the problem in the first place. I do respect your beliefs and am not trying to degrade or condescend upon them. I just don't agree with a lot of things a bunch of different religions tend to teach.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 3):
Jesus

And here I thought that Jesus was all mythical like the story of how Mary was impregnated by God. When I was taking notes in my world history class a month ago, we came to a slide that told me the he was a real person and was crucified. Sure, but really, I just can't believe that he died for our sins. That just doesn't fly with me.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 3):
He created us in his image.

I see that in a different way. I don't believe that he created animals in the first 6 days of His creation and then humans from dirt. I see it that we evolved from previous or existing mammals.

Another thing, say if we do know someone who is in the hospital. Normally, you would pray and pray and pray that they survive and live through their injury or sickness. What if things turn for the worst and don't live on? Who would you look to then? Say if that person did pull through. Would you say that it wasn't their time to go or that God was watching over them? Right now, I feel as if I'm going nowhere with this..  Angry
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13726
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:37 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

Simple response: No.

I was born Catholic, but lost faith in the Church after I became more aware of what they did in the past (the crusades, the Inquisition, forcing the Christian faith on others) and what they're doing today (sex scandals, their continuing intolerance and hatred towards gays and lesbians, their zero-tolerance towards legal abortion, their unwillingness to become a more modern church in the eve of the 21st Century, etc.), along with a personal feeling of having been abandoned by God. These three drivers have led me to become an Atheist.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:38 am

If by "God" you mean the mythical person named God who posted here for a while, and now posts on another website of his own, then yes.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
LASoctoberB6
Topic Author
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:41 am



Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
If by "God" you mean the mythical person named God who posted here for a while, and now posts on another website of his own, then yes.

Um.. what?  Confused
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
User avatar
asuflyer05
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:50 am

Yes I believe in God. There's nothing wrong with questioning your faith. I've been doing a lot of that over the past few months. Not so much as to whether or not God exists but which religious community my beliefs most closely align with.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
Science is science and religion is faith. I do not believe the two go hand in hand. I believe in God. I have no scientific proof he exists, but I have my faith that he does. And that's it for me. Mixing science and faith is not a good idea, in my view.

You pretty much summed it up.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11):
what they're doing today (sex scandals, their continuing intolerance and hatred towards gays and lesbians,

That's interesting you say that. The catholic church here in Tempe has a G&L ministry.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22520
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:54 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 10):
Sure, but really, I just can't believe that he died for our sins. That just doesn't fly with me.

I would rather believe that than the alternative: we are just put into the cold cold ground. I have faith the soul and the body are different. I believe that the soul will go either to a better place or someplace where we can learn. I have faith there is more than just this body we have here and now.

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 10):
What if things turn for the worst and don't live on?

My mom knew some people two or three years ago that went deer hunting. They took their old camper to the mountains. They thought everything about the camper was fine. When they didn't return from hunting, a search party was gathered and the search party found the two in their camper asphyxiated from propane. There was a leak in the line. How could God do such a thing? How could God allow his creations to die? But, those of us that have campers know to check our propane lines. It sounds stupid, but how many lives will be saved from that one tragedy? I don't like seeing death. But, some things can be prevented. Some people that die are better off dying so their bodies are not tortured. Some people that live continue living so they can be a living testament that anyone can do anything positive here and now.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
msnyx
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:58 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:54 am

My short answer, an unequivocal yes. Look at my profile where I explain exactly what I believe in detail. (By the way, anything that I say below, I say with respect)

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
This world is just too scientific, just to solid.

This is the exact thing that swings me the other way to believe in God. There are two main teachings out there as far as how the world came into existence. I have put a great deal of study into evolution and all that it says, and I must say, it is a very sound theory. It makes sense that we would, over time, adapt to better survive. There is just one point that catches me--in fact it is just one word that stops me. That word is accident. Evolution holds that everything that is came to be by an accident--the world is here by chance. We all share an obsession of an amazing industry, and when I look out that window at 35 thousand and see the beauty of the earth, I can not believe in my mind that that could have come about by chance. http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z210/msn113/blach.jpg

I once saw a documentary called "The Privileged Planet" It was a documentary made by a group of evolution scientists who were calculating the odds of a planet turning out like ours. They looked at different factors like distance from the nearest star--too close and it is too hot to sustain life and too far and it is too cold to sustain life--and gave them different chances like 1in 1000. These categories were stuff like planet being the right mass (effecting gravity), rotation speed of the planet, atmosphere being composed of the right elements to sustain life, presence of an ozone or similar uv ray blocking layer, and a whole bunch of other factors that would effect the ability to sustain life. The number they came up with a planet like earth coming into existence was something like 1 in 180 with 100 more zeros behind it. These scientists (evolution scientists mind you) were just amazed and realized how rare it is that a planet like this would exist. I believe that there is more to it than just chance. I believe that there is an almighty, all powerful, all loving God, who created this world we live in in 6 twenty-four hour days. He created it a world in motion--some stuff old and some stuff young. He created it perfect, but because of man, it fell into sin. "But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive in Christ, even we were dead in our transgressions and sins."

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
I tend to be on the more logical side of life and I cannot let myself really believe that there is someone up in the heavens watching over our lives.

That is the only way I get through each day  Smile I know a lot of people say that Christianity is only for the weak who can't make it through life. What they intend as in insult is in reality a compliment and a truth. I could not make it through a day, much less, an hour without God. I'm sure that life is going great for most of you right now (I could not be happier myself), but a time will come when things aren't going great and you are wondering what is the point of life and feeling like there must be something more. I would strongly encourage you to look to Jesus and His peace which transcends all understanding. Please ask me if you have any question or mention any comments either below or through e-mail. I would again encourage you to read my profile.
If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
 
Springbok747
Posts: 3993
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:14 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

No.
אני תומך בישראל
 
sw733
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:21 am



Quoting MSNYX (Reply 16):
I know a lot of people say that Christianity is only for the weak who can't make it through life.

Honestly, I've never heard that before in my life. And anyone who says that is an idiot...this coming from someone completely non-religious (baptized, but thats it)
 
britjap
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:47 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:02 am



Quoting MSNYX (Reply 16):
I know a lot of people say that Christianity is only for the weak



Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):
anyone who says that is an idiot

Why??... It is very obviously a truth to me.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 15):
I would rather believe that than the alternative: we are just put into the cold cold ground.

The above sums it up. Religion was created by man for several reasons one of which was as a comfort blanket for those people essentially too scared to face the fact that humans too are just a bunch of cells that have fused to form something truly wonderful, but that those cells will eventually burn out and turn to dust. We are all just as insignificant and transitory as all other animals, sad though that is. But it is just all the more reason IMO to make the most of yourself while you are still around. Because once you are gone...thats it.
 
sw733
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:09 am



Quoting BritJap (Reply 19):
Why??... It is very obviously a truth to me.

Because I think that shows people who are very closed minded. I don't think it's fair for very religious people to push religion on others, but I also don't think it's fair for people who are not religious to call religious people "weak"
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13726
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:20 am



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
The catholic church here in Tempe has a G&L ministry.

I didn't know that, but I can assure you that it will still not convince the Powers That Be in the Vatican to start accepting homosexuals, guaranteed.

That being said, I'd like to tell you about an event that was planned here in Costa Rica, this incident happened about 8 or 9 years ago. It was an event for gays and lesbians, and just the fact that it was announced had upset the Archbishop of San José, who back then was Monsignor Román Arrieta. Due to pressure by the church, the event was not authorised by the authorities and had to be indefinitely postponed.

Believe me if I say that homophobia and sexism is still alive and well in the Catholic Church. And let me tell you: it was nice to see two lesbian ministers on the Amazing Race recently, along to hear about the openly gay minister who was named bishop in the Anglican Church (that was I believe in the news a couple of years ago). It shows that other "branches" of Christianity have at least come to terms with that fact, along with accepting women into a ministry. In my home town of Hamburg, the Bishop of the Lutheran-Evangelical Church of Hamburg is also a woman, Maria Jepsen.

If the Catholic Church wants to maintain its followers and become more modern, they should at least start with abolishing celibacy, allowing Priests to have families of their own, start allowing women to become priests/bishops/cardinals, even allowing a woman to become Pope by dropping the gender barrier, and finally they should start accepting homosexuals as part of our society. But since a former leader of the Office of the Holy Inquisition Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith has become Pope with Joseph Ratzinger, it ain't gonna happen.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:22 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

Yes.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:04 am

No, I do not. If an all-knowing God really existed, I'd have to call that deity a sadist, I'm afraid.
Nobody is going to come to your rescue you but yourself and possibly some of the other people living now on this planet. When you die, you're gone for good. Your afterlife will consist of your atoms being circulated around for forever.
 
britjap
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:47 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:06 am



Quoting SW733 (Reply 20):
but I also don't think it's fair for people who are not religious to call religious people "weak"

Why? Humans are full of weaknesses, I have tons! And religion is absolutely a weakness, or rather, it is used by some as a remedy for weakness.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:11 am

I don't believe in an anthropomorphisized god as religion teaches, but I must allow for the fact that my limited mind might not be capable of fathoming the work or plan of a truly omniscient force or being.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
User avatar
ManuCH
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:40 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

No.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8059
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:51 am



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 25):
but I must allow for the fact that my limited mind might not be capable of fathoming the work or plan of a truly omniscient force or being

And that's where faith comes in. Because the existance of an omniscient, omnipotent and good being is beyond our comprehension.

I believe. Maybe not the way I was taught to believe, but yes.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:21 am

More to the point - does God believe in me ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
LASoctoberB6
Topic Author
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:22 am



Quoting BritJap (Reply 19):
a comfort blanket for those people essentially too scared to face the fact that humans too are just a bunch of cells

I guess I'm getting ready to face that fact. That sentence basically is what my feelings and thoughts have formed into this past month. However, I would not call someone who is not ready to face that fact, weak.
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
britjap
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:47 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:02 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 29):

I am happy for you that you have achieved enlightenment!!

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 29):
However, I would not call someone who is not ready to face that fact, weak.

Well fair enough, thats your call. Personally I do think it is exceedingly weak, pitiful almost.
 
oly720man
Posts: 5813
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:03 am

No....... or not yet anyway.

I do not see "God" as a club you join or get brainwashed/indoctrinated into (pick your flavour of religion)

If there was a God should there be some inner 7th sense or instinct of what it was all about (God being in all of us apparently), not the need to read all about it and then get screwed up because different people read the words and see different things?

I would like to think that most of us, regardless of religious beliefs, share similar "moral values" and standards of behaviour. All different religions seem to do is divide and have a greater interest in power and market share than any higher moral standing above the pettiness of humanity.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:16 am



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 31):
(God being in all of us apparently),

No. Just me.  biggrin 
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:58 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 27):
Because the existance of an omniscient, omnipotent

A being cannot be both omniscient and omnipotent. It's logically impossible - think about it.

The trouble with the god idea is that the probability of it being true is so vanishingly unlikely that it is barely worth considering. Consider what we know about evolution, and how life has developed. None of that requires a God. The spark that created life to begin with is certainly improbable, but remember, it had to happen only the once. However unlikely that might be, the concept of an intelligent guiding hand behind it is even more unlikely.

So very often people move back further to the idea that God created the universe. This always falls down on the problem that a being capable of doing such a thing would necessarily have to be unbelievably complex, and who created that being? Why is it more likely that a God popped out of nothingness to create the universe than for the universe to have popped out of nothingness? All it does is add an extra layer of complexity.

As for the argument that the chances of circumstances being ideal for us is desperately unlikely, that is approaching it from the wrong end. You can take just about any situation, and track back and consider how improbable it would have been for those precise circumstances at the start to exist, but reality shows that it did. Had circumstances been different, WE might have been different. It's putting the cart before the horse.

The existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other. And there is not a shred of evidence for there being one. Science does not and cannot explain everything, but the gaps in our knowledge do not imply automatically that a god must fill them, just that we do not yet know.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:34 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 33):
A being cannot be both omniscient and omnipotent. It's logically impossible - think about it.

As living proof, I beg to differ  Smile

(I agree with everything you say otherwise - well said).
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8059
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:47 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 33):
A being cannot be both omniscient and omnipotent. It's logically impossible - think about it.

Actually, I spent an entire semester as an undergrad in a class called Philosophy of Religion that addressed that very idea. It s possible. An all knowing, all powerful and good being. That is one of the definitions of God.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:54 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 34):
As living proof, I beg to differ

Do I really need to explain why not?

OK, then:

An omniscient being knows what will happen next Thursday, and what its actions will be accordingly. It cannot then change its actions, which prevents it being omnipotent. If it can change its actions, retaining its omnipotence, it cannot then be omniscient or it would have known that it was going to change its actions. Mutually exclusive.

Of course, being omniscient you already knew that...  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
B747forever
Posts: 13848
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:08 pm



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

Yes, I do.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:09 pm



Quoting MSNYX (Reply 16):
We all share an obsession of an amazing industry, and when I look out that window at 35 thousand and see the beauty of the earth, I can not believe in my mind that that could have come about by chance.

If God had meant us to fly, he would not have given us the railways.

Flanders, M (At the drop of a Hat)
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:22 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 36):
An omniscient being knows what will happen next Thursday, and what its actions will be accordingly. It cannot then change its actions, which prevents it being omnipotent. If it can change its actions, retaining its omnipotence, it cannot then be omniscient or it would have known that it was going to change its actions. Mutually exclusive.

Nothing like a little pedantry in the morning.

Why would an omnipotent being be constrained to linear time?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:38 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 36):


An omniscient being knows what will happen next Thursday, and what its actions will be accordingly. It cannot then change its actions, which prevents it being omnipotent. If it can change its actions, retaining its omnipotence, it cannot then be omniscient or it would have known that it was going to change its actions. Mutually exclusive.

This is right. The omnipotent/omniscient problem also fouls up all religions - God knows beforehand what 'free choice' we make in choosing to believe in God, break a commandment etc. In fact, he knows before we're born. So what's the point?

Religion has never been able to answer the big questions it thinks it does.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:44 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 36):
Of course, being omniscient you already knew that...

Yes I did, and being omnipotent I changed reality so that I CAN be omnipotent and omniscient. But I knew that too.  Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:56 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 41):
Yes I did, and being omnipotent I changed reality so that I CAN be omnipotent and omniscient. But I knew that too.

JGP, being worshipped by MacDonalds employees and the patrons of Les Pom-Pom Rouge Bar in the seedier part of Nice does not make you a God - no matter what your fans tell you.....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:15 pm



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

No.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:25 pm

No...

I consider all organized religion as a bastion for the 'un-enlightened'.
rm -r *
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:36 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 39):
Nothing like a little pedantry in the morning.

Why would an omnipotent being be constrained to linear time?

It's not pedantry, it's pointing out a flaw in the statements of those who claim that their God possesses it.

As for the second part, if people want to claim that every time something is pointed out, that their god is not bound by it, then there's no basis for a sensible discussion. We end up right back at the point that all there is is faith, with no evidence, no support for it. We're right back at the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (which is just as likely) and Russell's celestial teapot:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:48 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 45):
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

Nothing wrong with worshipping a teapot - or at least the contents that come out of it  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:00 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 46):
or at least the contents that come out of it

It'd be cold. Very cold.  grumpy 
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:45 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 46):
Nothing wrong with worshipping a teapot - or at least the contents that come out of it

Ah - our resident Teaboy gives us the benefit of his professional expertise. I disagree - I prefer to worship the Holy Hobnob of Antioch.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Umfolozi
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:03 am

RE: Do You Believe In God?

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:05 pm



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Do You Believe In God?

Yes.
The only good suit is a wetsuit
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alfa164, flyingclrs727, TTailedTiger and 36 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos