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miamiair
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Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:44 am

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americ...03/venezuela.referendum/index.html

I am suprised. I thought this would have sailed thru. A ray of hope for the the people of Venezuela. It was close, but Chavez was told NO!!!.

What is the next trick up el Loco's sleve?
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HOMER71
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:01 pm

Good for you, Venezuela!

Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter):
What is the next trick up el Loco's sleve?

I'm guessing he's going to accuse the US of meddling in the vote and threaten to cut off his oil to them  Yeah sure
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Falcon84
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:11 pm

Way to go Venezuela! Way to stand up for your liberty and freedom!

I'm sure Hugo will find a way to overturn the vote somehow. Dictators-in-waiting don't like hearing "no", but I'm so happy for Venezuela this morning!
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kaitak
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:20 pm

Good news, but remember it's only a referendum on constitutional changes, rather than a general election, so now I'm sure he has a "Plan B" to turn to.

It does certainly put him in a difficult position, because the opposition now understands that unity is needed to defeat him and they have seen the results of this.

We can only hope that this is the beginning of the end for HC, but I have my doubts.
 
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rleiro
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:24 pm

What happened yesterday was the result of the errors Chavez made along this year... The closure of RCTV was the main factor that spooled the movement of students against him. Moreover, the separation of PODEMOS and PPT (both political allies) because of their differences with the Reforma, left him without the logistic required to gather votes in the popular sectors. There was a lot of abstention... but it was his followers who did not vote.

Finally, Raul Baduel, a military who helped to restore him to the power during the events of April 2002, was a prominent figure against him during the last weeks. Baduel, now retired, was one of the promoters of the opposition to vote.

Personally, I am too happy about this. This is just the beginning of a long battle Venezuelans will have to fight in order to turn our country into the 21st Century and not into the 19th Century.

¡Saludos Amigos!

Roberto.
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ussherd
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:39 pm

As a venezuelan living in the UK, I too am very happy with the NO result. Respect to the students for having the courage to take to the streets in protest against the proposed constitutional change - I believe it was the students who helped galvanise the NO vote.
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commavia
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:40 pm

What wonderful news!

This was definitely an amazingly good step back from the brink for Venezuela, and I sincerely hope that the good free people of the country don't stop there with putting Chavez in his place (i.e., somewhere other than the President's mansion).

¡Viva Venezuela Libre!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:41 pm

Chavez reached too far and the people were able to and react via the ballot box. To me, his arrogant and sometimes stupid behaviors and policies, his repression of political opposition, closing down and repression some media outlets and anti-Americanism turned off many there, fearful of it's effects on the oil business, something extremely important to all of it's citizens. Citgo in the USA, a major integrated oil company operating in the USA, is owned by the Venezuela government and may have had some financial risk if Chavez continued on his power consolidation ways. Venezuela is also one of the oldest democracies in the Americas and what was happening was destroying it. Let's hope a more moderate leader develops from this and Chavez goes into retirement.
 
dl021
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:48 pm

I'm a little shocked but very pleasantly surprised....

I'm guessing that Venezuelans saw their democracy sailing away and understood that this was Chavez's way of maneuvering for lifetime power.

I'm hoping that Chavez doesn't try something more blatant next.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:52 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
I'm a little shocked but very pleasantly surprised....

So was I, but I wouldn't hold my breath on this. There was a 56% of attendance to the polls, and it is estimated that many Chavez voters did not show up, counting they were expecting a victory or where they really not convinced with Chavez' reforms? I don't think that's the case, Chavez was elected by a landslide, why wouldn't those who fell into electing him be able to fall again for his tricks?

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Avianca
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:11 pm

Great day for Venezuela after a long night!!!
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:22 pm

I can't wait for Alex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to spin this. Should be entertaining.

I'll also bet that Carter gets involved in some way.
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AGM100
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:23 pm

Outstanding ! I heard the news last night and it said that everything was expected to go in Hugo's favor. Guess they didn't have the same insight .

Good news !
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Falcon84
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:42 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 11):
I can't wait for Alex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to spin this.

And Joni and A|lberchico, and all the other Chavez groupies out there.
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b752fanatic
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:46 pm

It shows that Venezuela is one of the most strongest democracies in the world. And Chavez isn't a Dictator after all.

Congratulations Venezuela!
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:25 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter):
What is the next trick up el Loco's sleve?

Start killing off the organizers of the opposition of course . . .

Or there is this:

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 1):
I'm guessing he's going to accuse the US of meddling in the vote and threaten to cut off his oil to them



Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
I'm hoping that Chavez doesn't try something more blatant next.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that my friend . . .

The guy is a loon . . . he might try anything.

I expect him to cut off or reduce US Oil supply at the least. I expect leaders of his opposition to start showing up not showing up. I expect him to lose his mind with Colombia and start shooting.

Wouldn't put anything past him really.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:33 pm

While I am dissapointed that the referendum did not pass, this is proof that Venezuela is a functioning democracy and that the voices of the people still count. If this really was a dictatorship then the whole thing would have been rigged so that the vote would have passed by a huge margin. In fact many here predicted that was would happen.

However I would like to point out that this referendum failed to pass by a very narrow margin, meaning that Chaves still has very strong support and I can guarantee that before his term limits expire he will try to do this again........
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:41 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
While I am dissapointed that the referendum did not pass, this is proof that Venezuela is a functioning democracy and that the voices of the people still count.

THis is proof that the people want Chavez to take a frackin' hike!

When Chavez lets these referendums stand then you may have a snowballs chance in hell of making a point, Sir. Until then, the people in Venezuela have indeed taken their own lives in their hands . . .

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
meaning that Chaves still has very strong support

. . . meaning that Chaves still have a lot of heavy hands out directing people on how to vote and for what . . .

Sorry, not too many of us buy this stuff you're shoveling, Sir.

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14):
It shows that Venezuela is one of the most strongest democracies in the world. And Chavez isn't a Dictator after all.

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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ORL777
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Finally a Great Day here in Venezuela, We are very happy about the results, Finally the CNE said the truth!! finally the Opposition have the right!!! I'm very proud of Venezuelans

I hope this will be the beginning of the end of Hugo Chavez!!

Saludos!!
 
bongo
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:06 pm

To be honest, I don´t really know why the NO won...I mean, fortunatelly won, but strange because we all know Chavez could made any trick to win, specially with such a close margin, almost tie.
Besides that, listening to his speech looks like he was happy....anyway I don´t trust him and Who knows what´s on his mind. Maybe any game he is playing?
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wingnut767
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:07 pm

Way to go Venezuela. Hopefully the students are going to be great leaderrs for the future of that country



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
However I would like to point out that this referendum failed to pass by a very narrow margin, meaning that Chaves still has very strong support and I can guarantee that before his term limits expire he will try to do this again........

Why would you want a leader for life? What benefit is there?
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Mir
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:16 pm

Nice going Venezuela!!!  bigthumbsup 

I'd expect Chavez to do something sneaky to get around it (declare western interference and call a revote, perhaps), but today Venezuelans can be proud of themselves.

-Mir
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:16 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 20):
Why would you want a leader for life? What benefit is there?

The referendum would not automatically make him leader for life, it would remove term limits and allow him to run for re-election indefinitely. He would still have to campaign and win the support of the people just like any other politician.....
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rleiro
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:25 pm



Quote:
The referendum would not automatically make him leader for life, it would remove term limits and allow him to run for re-election indefinitely. He would still have to campaign and win the support of the people just like any other politician.....

Just as the last year presidential elections in which Chavez used all the resources of the government (media, ministries and money) to promote his reelection... Quite fair huh?

Roberto.
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:41 pm

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 23):
Chavez used all the resources of the government (media, ministries and money) to promote his reelection.

Come on, do you know how many politicians use every means at their disposal to win elections ???

[Edited 2007-12-03 07:42:14]
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Mir
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:46 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 22):
The referendum would not automatically make him leader for life, it would remove term limits and allow him to run for re-election indefinitely.

It would also allow him to invoke emergency powers indefinitely.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:55 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
It would also allow him to invoke emergency powers indefinitely.

Dosen't every goverment have that right to do that in some way in case of a crisis ???
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rleiro
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:56 pm



Quote:
Come on, do you know how many politicians use every means at their disposal to win elections ???

We are not discussing on how many politicians do it, but on how fair is that, specially when you have plenty of power and resources to do it as Chavez did in the presidential elections last year and in this one.

Roberto.
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:00 pm



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 27):
but on how fair is that, specially when you have plenty of power and resources to do it as Chavez did in the presidential elections last year and in this one.

Chavez has plenty of resources but the private media and the opposition , even without RCTV still have considerable muscle and power to mount an effective campaign against him. The defeat of the referendum proves that.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
797
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:07 pm

Guys you all have no idea how happy we are in Venezuela right now!

After a looooong night, the CNE decided to finally say the thruth - albeit strongly modified - and favoured us, the Venezuelans who conciently went to vote and protected our decision of saying NO to this insane proposal that the only thing it was after was the custom that would be over a hideous comunism.

Today the country seems like if it was on a day like January 1st. Everyone is relaxed and happy, it's been a long time since this doesn't happen. Finally we beat Chavez in one of his crazy ideas and we demonstrated that the oppositon is not a minority, we are a big stake of the country and he must realize that with such a big rate of oppositors, the country is almost ungobernable.

I feel shame for thosw who voted YES. Those poor minds that were either bought or simply full of ignorance have a new lesson in their lifes. Now they must understand that if they had won, everything would have changed.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
However I would like to point out that this referendum failed to pass by a very narrow margin

And dude, I am really sad for you. I have no idea how in this world would you support such thing. Did you ever take a chance to read the reform and decide RATIONALLY that it was in fact the best for our country's interests? NO, you're just doing it because you feel Chavez is something cool and different.

And for the record, we won with 13 points of difference. They took so long because they negociated to say they were close so Chavez could come with the bull$hit announcement eventually. I have a very reliable source that can support this.... we won 13 points over them, not a small margin, Alberchico...

Stop being childyish and look at the consequences this reform could have brought.

SALUDOS A TODOS!!!!!

[Edited 2007-12-03 08:10:23]
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:09 pm



Quoting 797 (Reply 29):
look at the consequences this reform could have brought

The fact that almost half of Venezuelans voted for it means that the referendum did in fact have wide support.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
797
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:12 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 30):
The fact that almost half of Venezuelans voted for it means that the referendum did in fact have wide support.....

Oh come on, even people from the Chavez side were reluctant to vote for him... this reform was something insane...

And I'd like to ask YOU and not the people who voted for him... do you think this reform would have been the best thing for Venezuela and it would have given a benefit to ALL the citizens?
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AGM100
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:14 pm



Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14):
It shows that Venezuela is one of the most strongest democracies in the world. And Chavez isn't a Dictator after all.

Basically , I agree with this,. However this also makes me less sympathetic to the people of Venezuela . Mr, Chavez was apparently elected by the majority of the Venezuelan people and they are responsible for his actions .. good or bad. I believe that US should back off and let them handle their problems internally , if they want to ally with Iran ... have at it.
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MSYtristar
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Congrats to the people of Venezuela. Like many others have said, I was expecting thr worst, but hoping for the best. And when I woke up this morning and saw the news that his insanse proposal was rejected by the people, well, it made my day.

Maybe the U.S and Venezuela continue to have a long and prosperous relationship.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:23 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 24):
Come on, do you know how many politicians use every means at their disposal to win elections ???

Indeed. But the scales are tipped firmly in HC's favour when he has access to all governmental resources to help him win an election, but his opponents do not.

By the way, is that fair in ...

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14):
one of the most strongest democracies in the world

 scratchchin 
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Avianca
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:27 pm



Quoting 797 (Reply 29):
And for the record, we won with 13 points of difference. They took so long because they negociated to say they were close so Chavez could come with the bull$hit announcement eventually. I have a very reliable source that can support this.... we won 13 points over them, not a small margin

no doubt about this!
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cybergus
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:30 pm

Hello Everybody!.

Today, the whole country woke up with a new beginning. After a lot of weeks of discussions, tensions, rallies and all kind of things to inform the citizens about this new project, finally we made our voices being heard. I'm very proud of all the students in first place for being such a very good example of what we are and what the future should be, because we are the tomorrow's citizens and professionals and we are the builders of the NEW and different Venezuela. In the other hand i must also give a big applause to all the Venezuelans that went to the voting centers from the early morning, until the evening. In the other hand I must say that I'm very disappointed with the absence of some people in some voting centers around the country, in some ways it is their fault that this country is what it is right now...SHAME ON YOU!.

However, as i said before this is a new chance to build up a whole new thing and to demonstrate to the entire world that here in Venezuela we don't want a Cuban style government and of course nothing close to the communism thing.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 22):
The referendum would not automatically make him leader for life, it would remove term limits and allow him to run for re-election indefinitely.

And the point is??? Man with a lot of money and a "referee" everything could happen.

Cheers

Tavo
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:40 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter):
What is the next trick up el Loco's sleve?

That he apparently has accepted and recognized the outcome of the vote is positive. But, yes, the question of course is what comes next.
 
andessmf
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:07 pm

As Chavez said, is this not a victory for Bush?  stirthepot 

This is not only good for Venezuela, but good for other LatAm countries facing the same type of vote.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 30):
The fact that almost half of Venezuelans voted for it means that the referendum did in fact have wide support.....

The fact that the vast majorities of Venezuelans are poor, and hence direct beneficiaries of his policies, and a good chunk of them voted AGAINST Chavez, shows that you are spinning like crazy.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
That he apparently has accepted and recognized the outcome of the vote is positive

That is rare. Though I would still expect news of how Bush worked against him.
 
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rleiro
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:21 pm



Quote:
Chavez has plenty of resources but the private media and the opposition , even without RCTV still have considerable muscle and power to mount an effective campaign against him. The defeat of the referendum proves that.....

Please, just check out on how many TV Stations and Radio Networks are owned by the government, and how many of these broadcast spaces in favour of the opposition during elections... Add to this Telesur and the lobby they have overseas which is financed with money from the oil that, supposedly, belong to all Venezuelans, and that is used for the sole benefit of his "Revolution".

Chavez lost not because of the media and the opposition... He lost basically because his reform was not oriented to give Venezuelans more rights, but to give him too much power to stay forever in the power a la Mugabe or Fidel.

Roberto.
A proud SVZM Spotter!
 
NoUFO
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:28 pm

Ha, isn't that fantastic news? Big grin

But this Castro-Wannabe will find new ways to strengthen his power, and I'm hoping he won't blame "CIA and other U.S. imperialists" for the outcome of the referendum.

Still, it's undoubtedly good news.
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Falcon84
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:38 pm



Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 14):
It shows that Venezuela is one of the most strongest democracies in the world. And Chavez isn't a Dictator after all.

Congratulations Venezuela!

It shows that the PEOPLE of Venezuela want to REMAIN a democracy, despite the fact it's leader is trying to push it in the opposite direction. Remember, Hitler was voted into office, and the poeple followed his every lead. The people of Venezuela, at about 51% of the people, don't want to vote themselves into dictatorship and one-man rule. And Chavers is only NOT a dictator because the people stood up to him. Don't you dare give Hugo any credit for this crap he tried to pull.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
While I am dissapointed that the referendum did not pass

 rotfl  Why, for God's sake? You live in a free nation, and you SUPPORT a man trying to make himself leader for life-because once he got his one 7-year term, he would never have let go. Now ,emboldened by this vote, maybe the people of Venezuela will kick his rotten ass out, and give him a one-way ticket to Havana, or Tehran, or Pyongyang, whe he can hang out with his dictator buddies.

WHY, Alberchico, does a free man, like yourself, support a dictator-in-waiting? Explain that to us, if you have the intelligence and the balls to do so?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 16):
this is proof that Venezuela is a functioning democracy

Again, only thanks to a small majority of its' people, no thanks to it's leader.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Sorry, not too many of us buy this stuff you're shoveling, Sir.

You mean this stuff, ANC?



I'll be that smells to high heaven.  Big grin

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 22):
The referendum would not automatically make him leader for life, it would remove term limits and allow him to run for re-election indefinitely

Romoving limits and allowing him to run forever is how dictators are made. Once he is in, he'd make sure he'd never be out.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 24):
Come on, do you know how many politicians use every means at their disposal to win elections ???

You mean, like the army, the police, spies, and the like? Yes-people like Castro, and those nuts in Iran and the DRPK. But they're all swell people, right, Alberchico?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 26):
Dosen't every goverment have that right to do that in some way in case of a crisis ???

Especially in a "crisis" that they invent? Google the term "Krystalnacht", and you might understand that point I made.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 30):
The fact that almost half of Venezuelans voted for it means that the referendum did in fact have wide support.....

It means that the man is teetering on the verge of being ousted, that's what it means. It means that probably many voted for it out of fear, not out of support. Maybe Time Magazine should name the PEOPLE of Venezeuela as their Persons of the Year? I think they deserve it.
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mia
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:44 pm

His supporters are already drumming up smoke about how the US interfered in this sovereign Venezuelan decision (www.aporrea.org)

For myself, I can go back to being a supporter of the revolution, but this time with much more reservations about what it means to be revolutionary in Venezuela.

Venezuela has many problems, many many many problems, the least of them stem from this president and his policies; but the majority have been aggravated by his conscious choices and omissions as a leader.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:45 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 22):
He would still have to campaign and win the support of the people just like any other politician.....

That is some serious Kool-Aid. Chavez knows far too well what he was doing trying to pass that. Thanfully, the people (the ones who really matter) voted otherwise.

Nice to see a majority see through his smoke screen.
You can't cure stupid
 
b752fanatic
Posts: 892
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:54 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Don't you dare give Hugo any credit for this crap he tried to pull.

You are right, he is a fascist dictator that lost in a close vote, and was so much a dictator that he decided in admitting his defeat and congratulating the winners.

I’m glad Chavez lost the referendum, but Venezuela during his tenure has never resembled the totalitarian dungeon that is portrayed in American op-ed pages or the media in general. And it’s a world apart from the real dictatorships run by America’s closest allies around the globe and of which Bush and Cheney are far more indulgent.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
Falcon84
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Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 44):
but Venezuela during his tenure has never resembled the totalitarian dungeon that is portrayed in American op-ed pages or the media in general.

Why don't you ask our friends who LIVE there, under Chavez, what it's been like, instead of believing your own fantasies? I'll take their word over what it's been like, not yours.

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 44):
And it’s a world apart from the real dictatorships run by America’s closest allies around the globe and of which Bush and Cheney are far more indulgent.

You mean like Cuba, Iran, the DRPK? Oh, I get it. Those are the thugs Hugo runs around with. Politics does make strange bedfellows sometime, but he's in the sack with his own kind, in this instance.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
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alberchico
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:23 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Don't you dare give Hugo any credit for this crap he tried to pull.

By accepting defeat and not trying to claim fraud or demand a recall he proved himself to be a class act. You have to give him credit for that....

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Now ,emboldened by this vote, maybe the people of Venezuela will kick his rotten ass out

He's not going anywhere my friend. There are several more wonderful years left...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
Again, only thanks to a small majority of its' people, no thanks to it's leader.

If Chavez wanted to he could have easily comited fraud to win the vote. Which proves the integrity of the electoral system...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
It means that the man is teetering on the verge of being ousted, that's what it means. It means that probably many voted for it out of fear, not out of support

He has strong support from the group that really counts, the military. He's not going nowhere....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:25 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
believing your own fantasies?

-
Mr Chavez now in fact has a chance to find compromises and to adapt his presidency to common sense. Whenever I fear that this is wishful thinking !
 
b752fanatic
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Why don't you ask our friends who LIVE there, under Chavez, what it's been like, instead of believing your own fantasies? I'll take their word over what it's been like, not yours.

Fantasies? The man accepted his defeat, congratulated the opposition on winning the election, is that a fantasy?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7124313.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7124547.stm

Venezuela is model of democracy, that';s my opinion, based on FACTS, the illusion and the fantasy that is not has been created by the hype of the media.

And BTW, the media was the one that orqestrated a coup attempt in 2002 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_coup_attempt_of_2002 if you have time to actually confirm your views, perhaps you might see this film about how the coup happened

"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Venezuela - NO! To Chavez's Referendums

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:30 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 46):
By accepting defeat and not trying to claim fraud or demand a recall he proved himself to be a class act

Why don't you tell that to the King of Spain, or the other leaders that he has managed to insult personally. One thing that he has done right so far does not classify him as a 'class act'.

Another thing that is quite lost in all these news, is that several prominent Chavez supporters left him hanging high and dry on his referendum.

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