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mt99
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:31 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 97):
features as tools, and not as a means to elevate social status

OK ill bite. What feature does the Iphone have that no other phone has that can be categorized as a "tool".
I am willing to be proven wrong.

Since a "tool" can only be defined by who is using it, you can also choose any person with any profession. Ill even give you one to begin with...

"A photographer uses its cool photo viewing application to show his work for clients" (although there are other phones that show pictures - ill give you that the iphone screen is bigger than most other phones)

Your turn..
 
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moo
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 100):

OK ill bite. What feature does the Iphone have that no other phone has that can be categorized as a "tool".
I am willing to be proven wrong.

Its not a simple case of 'no other phone has', its the package that completes it, at least for me.

Some of the outstanding features for me are -

Custom Google Maps
Widescreen movies
Proper email client
A *proper* browser, I mean a browser that is near identical to the one on my desktop

I can't guarantee no other phone has any one of them, or even the entire list, but I can tell you that I have yet to use another phone where it all just *gels* - seriously, the entire package just goes together, perfectly.
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:46 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 100):
What feature does the Iphone have that no other phone has that can be categorized as a "tool".

It's not that the iPhone's individual tools are unique or superior. I don't think I ever claimed that to be the case. It's that they're all wrapped up into one compact, intuitive interface.

To me, I really value this as an avid cyclist and motorcyclist. I enjoy having maps, a camera, a phone, an iPod, a usable photo gallery, a big, clear calendar, and a notepad (LOVE the notepad), but I definitely wouldn't want to carry around these individual components when I'm on the road or when I'm traveling through airports.

The feature the iPhone has....that nobody else seems to have....is the near-perfect bundling of very intuitive and well-designed tools.

2H4
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:48 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 98):

Actually that's a very new thing and very much of a grass roots origin.

Maybe but with a more that a fair help from Apple. Seen the Mac vs PC commercials? Those aren't grass roots origins

Quoting Moo (Reply 98):
No, marketing and branding is getting the customer to buy on *your* terms, not the customers own terms - and that's what we are seeing now, people deluding themselves into thinking they are entitled to having whatever they wish without actually paying the asking price for it.

But they ARE paying the price! The fact that people who want it (but not willing to pay) is a testament on how desirable the stupid phone is. That desire level comes from Apple. Has it backfired a bit. Maybe. The price went down pretty fast no? and the refunds came really fast afterwards.

Have they alienated costumers who at one point thought that Apple is/was a beacon of choice and freedom (grass roots or not) ?

Does it matter in the short term? No. Look at their stock value.

The success of the thing is based on 3 things:

1. Image
2. The iphone improves on applications (that have been available before - nothing new there)
3. Partnering agreements with operators.
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 102):
To me, I really value this as an avid cyclist and motorcyclist. I enjoy having maps, a camera, a phone, an iPod, a usable photo gallery, a big, clear calendar, and a notepad (LOVE the notepad), but I definitely wouldn't want to carry around these individual components when I'm on the road or when I'm traveling through airports.

The feature the iPhone has....that nobody else seems to have....is the near-perfect bundling of very intuitive and well-designed tools.

I agree with you that they are nicely packed together- giving each "tool" as much thought as the other. So i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you are user of all these tools. But you have to admit that there is a lot of people that want it to just to flash around...
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 103):
2. The iphone improves on applications (that have been available before - nothing new there)

But the efficient bundling and intuitive operating system is definitely something new.....and that's no small feat. Apple's original design and great engineering deserves every bit of credit for that. Marketing and branding might make a product desirable, but they don't make a product work well.

2H4
 
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moo
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:57 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 103):
Maybe but with a more that a fair help from Apple. Seen the Mac vs PC commercials? Those aren't grass roots origins

They are actually, while they may not be made by amateurs, they echo a long standing belief of the more outspoken Apple fandom. They are in no way an original sentiment.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 103):

But they ARE paying the price! The fact that people who want it (but not willing to pay) is a testament on how desirable the stupid phone is.

If they aren't buying it, they obviously aren't paying the price! Its the people that hold the same belief as Pyrex in reply 87 that piss me off - 'I don't like how they are selling it, I should have it on my own terms (no lock, no contract etc), and I'm going to bitch and whine as loud as possible rather than understanding that I am in no way entitled to one, I don't have to buy one, and my life is not incomplete without one. Its Apples product but I refuse to allow them to sell it however they wish.'

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 103):
That desire level comes from Apple. Has it backfired a bit. Maybe. The price went down pretty fast no? and the refunds came really fast afterwards.

The price drop caught a lot of early adopters, and yes it caused a backlash, but the same would be true of any situation for any product where your purchase was made both semi-obsolete (the 4GB phones were dropped from the product line) and cheapened (the 8GB phones were reduced in price) within the space of only a few months. Apple isn't alone there.
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:02 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 104):
But you have to admit that there is a lot of people that want it to just to flash around...

Oh, absolutely....but I contend that those people are the very loud and very annoying minority, and I think too many people automatically apply those characteristics to the rest of us.  Wink

2H4
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:06 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 105):
Marketing and branding might make a product desirable, but they don't make a product work well.

But also - Marketing and branding can also make a bad product look better that it is...

Quoting Moo (Reply 106):
Apple isn't alone there.

No - but in the "apple fandom" referenced above - it proves to those "believers" if you will -that Apple is not really on their side - but out there to make money. Just like any company.

Apple buyers have come to "expect" certain things (real or not) from Apple: earth shattering announcements at MacWorld Expo, better graphic software than PC's, better performance then Windows, clean and clutter free stores

The price debacle was something that - while not uncommon in the industry - it is uncommon for Apple. And that is why it was such a mess.
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:16 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 107):
Oh, absolutely....but I contend that those people are the very loud and very annoying minority, and I think too many people automatically apply those characteristics to the rest of us. Wink

I wont give you "minority." Want to compromise and agree with me that half of the buyers buy it to show off?  Smile

Let me ask you this. If say - Samsung - would have come up with a phone identical to the iphone in all respects. Would it be selling as good as it is right now?
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:16 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 108):
But also - Marketing and branding can also make a bad product look better that it is...

I agree. Do you think Apple's marketing and branding has made the iPhone look better than it is? I can absolutely see how people might think that, but based on my experience owning one, I honestly don't think Apple has made (or implied) any claims that are in any way inaccurate.

When it's all said and done:

  • I think the iPhone lives up to the claims and marketing created by Apple.

  • I don't think the iPhone has lived up to the artificial hype and claims (that it is everything to everyone) perpetuated by critics who don't actually own the thing.


2H4
 
Dougloid
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:17 pm



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 12):
It's probably because Europe already has very powerful phones on the market that are equal, or close to equal with the iphone's features. Unlike North America which has garbage phones that are years behind the European phones, so that puts the iphone waaay ahead of the pack.


Kris

Ummmm, it's just a freakin' telephone, not a lifestyle choice. You call people. They're either there and they answer or they aren't and they don't.


I use this at home. After the nuclear holocaust it may be a little singed but it'll work just fine:

 
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moo
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 108):

No - but in the "apple fandom" referenced above - it proves to those "believers" if you will -that Apple is not really on their side - but out there to make money. Just like any company.

Any following is the same.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 108):

Apple buyers have come to "expect" certain things (real or not) from Apple: earth shattering announcements at MacWorld Expo, better graphic software than PC's, better performance then Windows, clean and clutter free stores

Not all, many, but not all. I have no expectations from Apple - I use their products out of personal choice, but I see many deficits in them as well. Read my posting history here for what I *really* think about Apple. They certainly have their failings as well as their positives.

I will saying it again - any following is the same.
 
Pyrex
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:22 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 91):
You aren't forced to take anything - you can live without the iPhone you know.

Of course you can. That doesn't make bundling of unrelated products legal, though (as has been proven time and time again, even against Apple).

Honestly, I would just love to see the fit you would throw if suddenly Microsoft said something of the sort "Want Windows? Buy a Dell/HP/Lenovo computer."

Quoting Moo (Reply 91):
Apple can do jack shit about it - they can not support it, and they can actively not support it via not checking for it or accommodating it during an upgrade.

And you are entitled not to install the crappy Apple software upgrades if you want to.

Quoting Moo (Reply 95):
their 'draconian' control of products is nothing new - tried buying OS X to run on your PC?

Just because their draconian (without the ' ' ) control is nothing new doesn't make it right.
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:27 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 109):
I wont give you "minority." Want to compromise and agree with me that half of the buyers buy it to show off?

Heh heh....I suppose that might depend on the region. I would imagine in places like Soho, Chelsea, SFO, and other style-conscious areas, the percentage might greatly exceed 50%.

I'll admit I can't accurately judge the complete nationwide or worldwide percentage of annoying iPhone users. I can only describe my observations of what I've seen so far. That said, I'm pretty confident that the 'show-offs' are a very irritating minority.

I think iPhone critics are quick to jump to the conclusion that a regular Joe doing nothing more than using his iPhone is somehow attempting to show off and elevate his social status. It almost seems like the default label (unfairly) placed on iPhone users.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 109):
Let me ask you this. If say - Samsung - would have come up with a phone identical to the iphone in all respects. Would it be selling as good as it is right now?

Hmm...good question. Probably not, but although that credits Apple's branding and marketing, it doesn't detract from the very valid technical merits of the iPhone's usability and interface.

2H4
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:33 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 109):

P.S. - It's not every day that I can disagree so strongly with someone, and yet enjoy such a productive, respectful discussion of differences. It's been enjoyable, and I look forward to future discussions.

2H4
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:36 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 111):
Ummmm, it's just a freakin' telephone, not a lifestyle choice. You call people. They're either there and they answer or they aren't and they don't.

Many people, especially in my generation (20's) demand much more from a cell phone than just calling. Text messaging, internet, mp3 storage/playback, bluetooth etc. etc.

Having a phone that can do it all saves us from carrying and ipod and camera etc. etc.
 
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moo
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:43 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 113):

Of course you can. That doesn't make bundling of unrelated products legal, though (as has been proven time and time again, even against Apple).

It also doesn't make it illegal to bundle - as the recent case in Germany shows (court ruled it expressly legal), and the fact that its now been a month since the iPhones launch in the UK without a single peep from the, usually aggressive, telecoms regulator.

Just because you wish it to be, doesn't make it so.

Oh, and incase you haven't ever bought a phone before, a phone and an airtime contract are most certainly 'related products'.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 113):

Honestly, I would just love to see the fit you would throw if suddenly Microsoft said something of the sort "Want Windows? Buy a Dell/HP/Lenovo computer."

What fit? That's exactly the sort of freedom I wish to see - its their product, let them do what they wish with it and the market will decide if that's what they want to see or not.

And unsurprisingly, Apples market share is growing.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 113):

And you are entitled not to install the crappy Apple software upgrades if you want to.

Ahh, all of a sudden its 'crappy Apple software upgrades' is it. Yeah, ok then...

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 113):
Just because their draconian (without the ' ' ) control is nothing new doesn't make it right.

And your dislike of it also doesn't make it wrong.

You are most welcome to never buy or use any Apple product, I don't think anyone would care really.

Oh, and for me the ' ' stays around the work 'draconian', because a significant proportion of the reason Apples products 'just work' are because of that 'draconian' control Apple exercises.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:46 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 114):
Probably not, but although that credits Apple's branding and marketing, it doesn't detract from the very valid technical merits of the iPhone's usability and interface.

Betamax had some very valid technical merits against VHS and we all know the end of that story!

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 115):
P.S. - It's not every day that I can disagree so strongly with someone, and yet enjoy such a productive, respectful discussion of differences. It's been enjoyable, and I look forward to future discussions.

Thanks! I appreciate your comment. Ill even add you to my RU list. Smile ahh if only the world could learn from us!

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 116):
Having a phone that can do it all saves us from carrying and ipod and camera e

A 2.0 Megapixel camera  Wink
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 118):
A 2.0 Megapixel camera

Well, with the crappy phone here yes. But not in Europe
 
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moo
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 115):
P.S. - It's not every day that I can disagree so strongly with someone, and yet enjoy such a productive, respectful discussion of differences. It's been enjoyable, and I look forward to future discussions.

Seconded.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 116):
Many people, especially in my generation (20's) demand much more from a cell phone than just calling. Text messaging, internet, mp3 storage/playback, bluetooth etc. etc.

Having a phone that can do it all saves us from carrying and ipod and camera etc. etc.

Yes, its been 'interesting' growing up with the mobile phone, seeing what feature went from 'top of the range' to 'everyday' in a matter of months.

Games (Nokia's snake)
Colour screen (Can't remember if it was the first, but the SE T68i was my first)
Camera (again, T68i add on, and then a VGA camera built in to later models)
Radio (Nokia)
A camera that was worth having (> 640K)
MP3 player
Video capture
etc etc etc

And now we are into the realm of the phone being, essentially, a PDA.
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:56 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 110):
Do you think Apple's marketing and branding has made the iPhone look better than it is? I can absolutely see how people might think that, but based on my experience owning one, I honestly don't think Apple has made (or implied) any claims that are in any way inaccurate.

Especially since Apple - completely contrary to every mobile phone campaign I've ever seen before - has simply shown the damn thing being used, and nothing else in the first bunch of ads.

Go to the store, check it out - it does exactly what the advertising says and shows, it's all just there. No flashy 3D animation spots or hectic editing of beautiful people posing with a basically inert phone, just a black background and all the show that's going on is simply the normal, ordinary user interface of the product.

The music in the ads is very much a matter of taste (not mine either), but the advertisment doesn't generate any hype on its own. The idea is that the product is the message. And at least for a growing number of people, the message meets interest.

Whether someone believes in either the positive or the negative hype building up besides that is that person's choice. But one could easily check out where the boundary between the hype and the real thing actually lies.

A few people around here should simply get themselves a reality check.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 111):
I use this at home. After the nuclear holocaust it may be a little singed but it'll work just fine:

From the stone age all through to the apocalypse - talk about durability!  cool 
 
jafa39
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:05 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 96):
Even though that they might not practice what they preach.. they still make people believe that they do.

And I dare say a few Mac users would take a similar statement about MS and turn it into a negative. Making people believe you practice what you preach whilst not doing it is bad....always has been and has also been the downfall of many a corporation or company.....called getting owned nowadays  Wink
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:18 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 114):
I think iPhone critics are quick to jump to the conclusion that a regular Joe doing nothing more than using his iPhone is somehow attempting to show off and elevate his social status. It almost seems like the default label (unfairly) placed on iPhone users.

What baffles me most is that people even come to such an idea - I think I just don't have the inferiority complex myself to feel intimidated by a nice gadget somebody is showing around. If you had a gadget which you just got and you're really excited about how cool it is for you, wouldn't you show off a little (or a lot) for a while?  eyebrow 

It's perfectly normal. I've often exhibited dutiful appreciation for other people's new toys - be they cars, phones, computers, cameras - whatever.

I don't remember that it's ever peeved me personally that someone else had a new toy. And why the hell should it?

Quoting Moo (Reply 117):
It also doesn't make it illegal to bundle - as the recent case in Germany shows (court ruled it expressly legal), and the fact that its now been a month since the iPhones launch in the UK without a single peep from the, usually aggressive, telecoms regulator.

Indeed. T-Mobile have the judicial confirmation that the iPhone+contract bundle is perfectly legal. They only had to offer it unlocked in the few days between the emergency injunction Vodafone had managed to get and the actual judgment.

I'm glad that there is this level of interest and criticism of the bundling - mobile phones should always come unlocked and no carrier should be able to exert the level of control they still do today.

In some ways Apple is already trampling all over the carefully constructed fences of this overcontrolled market, breaking the carriers' total control of the entire product experience; But only massive pressure will some day manage to tear down the walls for good.

Walt Mossberg wrote a very much topical column about this:

Free my Phone:

Quote:
[...]

That’s why I refer to the big cellphone carriers as the “Soviet ministries.” Like the old bureaucracies of communism, they sit athwart the market, breaking the link between the producers of goods and services and the people who use them.

To some extent, they try to replace the market system, and, like the real Soviet ministries, they are a lousy substitute. They decide what phones can be used on their networks and what software and services can be offered on those phones. They require the hardware and software makers to tailor their products to meet the carriers’ specifications, not just so they work properly on the network, but so they promote the carriers’ brands and their various add-on services.

Let me be clear: Any company that spends billions to build and maintain a wireless network deserves to be paid for its use, and deserves to make a profit and a return for its shareholders. Not only that, but companies like Verizon Wireless or AT&T Inc. should be free to build or sell phones or software or services.

[...]

The entire piece is a highly recommended read.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:56 pm

Material for the reading classes. You have nothing to lose but the shackles on your phones!

Jobs dismisses third party applications from iPhone
King of every cough, spit and splutter


http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...ird-party-applications-from-iphone


The crowd are getting restless -- can we still make an escape?

Apple faces elitist crisis
We are as common as muck


http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...7/12/11/apple-faces-elitist-crisis
(Warning: the text may contain traces of the word "Fanboy")


What 3G iPhone, no officer, I saw nothing:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...07/11/30/ceo-infuriates-jobs-cover
 
Dougloid
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:44 am



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 116):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 111):
Ummmm, it's just a freakin' telephone, not a lifestyle choice. You call people. They're either there and they answer or they aren't and they don't.


Many people, especially in my generation (20's) demand much more from a cell phone than just calling. Text messaging, internet, mp3 storage/playback, bluetooth etc. etc.

Having a phone that can do it all saves us from carrying and ipod and camera etc. etc.

I'm going to deliberately resist the temptation to take you to task for ageism. Instead, I'll take some comfort in the thought that at some point if you are lucky and the occupants of this old planet haven't managed to kill each other off, you'll be my age and you'll be having an identical conversation with some young feller who just got the latest cerebrocortical transducers wired directly to his brain.

After all, it was my sister who told my mother back in 1957 that she didn't appreciate good music-Elvis Presley.

Having a phone that can, as you say, 'do it all' means it is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

What's the deal with text messaging anyway. My son sends me them all the time and I wish he'd just call and say "Hey. How the hell are you, you old git!"

 old   old   old 
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:22 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 125):
Having a phone that can, as you say, 'do it all' means it is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

No. That would be a badly designed multi-function device. If the number of functions was intrinsically linked to a lack of usability, our current computers would all be completely unusable, since they can offer thousands if not millions of functionalities.

It is difficult to design systems which are both flexible and still usable, but it can be done.

And the differences between the iPhone and its would-be competition illustrate both the difficulty and the possible rewards.
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:25 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 125):
Having a phone that can, as you say, 'do it all' means it is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Once again....the only people holding the iPhone to the standards of being perfect at everything are the naysayers. Those of us who actually own the thing freely admit the individual features have their weaknesses.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 125):
What's the deal with text messaging anyway.

I love text messaging when I'm out with friends. When I'm in a busy, noisy restaurant, waiting in line at the movies, or in a noisy place with live music, texting allows me to send and receive quick communications. In cases like these, making a phone call is difficult, if not impossible. Quick texts are a great way to figure out where people are, what movie's playing, how to get to a location, relay a change of plans, etc.

When my flight touches down, texting allows me to tell my ride that I've arrived without being the annoying person sitting next to you and talking on the phone.

2H4
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:38 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 127):
the only people holding the iPhone to the standards of being perfect at everything are the naysayers.



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 127):
Those of us who actually own the thing freely admit the individual features have their weaknesses.

I'm all ears ... you can vent out freely.

But I think you've missed out a category: the one that i) holds iPhone is pretty much perfect ii) is not a naysayer by any means and iii) does not own a phone.
 
aerobalance
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:43 am

I'll never own a Mac but I own a 8G Iphone.

With my clients in the aerospace world e-mailing and calling me from around the world, and me at their beck and call, I can't afford to be let down by any tool used for my business. One feature I love is that I imported my e-mail contact list and that doubles as my phone number list - all my customers info. in one fell swoop. I better not lose the damn thing, lol!

This communication device gets the job done perfectly, so good in fact that I bought one for my g/f - she loves it!

Those who succeed in business aren't fanboys, they're the ones who buy the right tools for the job. Nobody is paying me to use their tools...
 
2H4
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RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 128):
I'm all ears ... you can vent out freely.

I've already described the areas that are less than perfect, but just for you, I'll repeat myself.
  • The touchscreen, lacking tactile feedback, is inherently problematic to use in the car; eyes must be diverted from the road to select a new song or artist, for example
  • The camera, while on par with many other 2MB camera, lacks a flash, movie-recording capability, and picture quality
  • The EDGE network can be excruciatingly slow
  • (Very minor nitpick) When you tilt it on it's side to view album covers, and then double-click the mic to skip to the next song, the first album cover remains until the phone is tilted back to the upright position.
  • No way to save photos from the web to storage
  • No way to load photos or files from a computer other than your own directly to the phone


....And yet, I don't think I'd ever want to switch to another device. Were I to switch, I suspect I'd be wishing I had these things to complain about.

For every weakness I can think of, about 5 or 10 strengths come to mind.

2H4

[Edited 2007-12-11 19:02:08]
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:20 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 129):
I'll never own a Mac

Well, "never" is such a long time...!  mischievous 

And in some ways you already do - the iPhone is basically a handheld Mac with a special user interface. It uses OS X as much as any "large" Macintosh, just in adapted form with adapted variants of existing Mac applications (Safari, Mail, iTunes, iPhoto, QuickTime Player, iCal, Address Book, Stickies, various Dashboard widgets...).
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:25 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 127):
I love text messaging when I'm out with friends. When I'm in a busy, noisy restaurant, waiting in line at the movies, or in a noisy place with live music, texting allows me to send and receive quick communications. In cases like these, making a phone call is difficult, if not impossible. Quick texts are a great way to figure out where people are, what movie's playing, how to get to a location, relay a change of plans, etc.

When my flight touches down, texting allows me to tell my ride that I've arrived without being the annoying person sitting next to you and talking on the phone.

See, now there's a reasoned and intelligent answer to the question I posed. It might actually have some possibilities.

To go by what you see on teevee, it's all stuff for moronic 11 year old girls to totally confuse anyone over the age of thirteen, and for kids to cheat at exams.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 5109
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:03 am

Well, apart from the Inquirer seeming to have something against Apple (have you seriously read those articles? Did Apple kill their dog or something?) ...

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 124):
Jobs dismisses third party applications from iPhone
King of every cough, spit and splutter

*very* old news - an SDK (software development kit) has been announced and should be available in February 2008.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 124):

What 3G iPhone, no officer, I saw nothing:

Over the course of interviews in 2007 (and especially at the UK iPhone launch in September), Jobs has indicated exactly what the AT&T spokesman indicated - 3G in 2008.
 
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moo
Posts: 5109
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:04 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 127):
Once again....the only people holding the iPhone to the standards of being perfect at everything are the naysayers. Those of us who actually own the thing freely admit the individual features have their weaknesses.

Notice how 99% of the naysayers aren't promoting an alternative, they just seem to be against the iPhone?
 
Joni
Topic Author
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:25 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 80):
Probably - the iPhone has been on sale in the UK for a much shorter time thus far than in the US.

I'd look at the trend first and foremost...

Do you have some trend data? Note that S60 devices haven't been sold in the US in large numbers.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 126):

It is difficult to design systems which are both flexible and still usable, but it can be done.

And the differences between the iPhone and its would-be competition illustrate both the difficulty and the possible rewards.

Coming from someone who's never owned either a N95 or iPhone, this is very convincing.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:21 am



Quoting Joni (Reply 135):
Coming from someone who's never owned either a N95 or iPhone, this is very convincing.

As a developer myself, I have a keen interest in the current level of technology and a pretty good view on what exactly the limitations of the state of technology are (hardware and software) and what it takes to overcome them.

Ownership of either model is not necessary for that kind of assessment. There is plenty of informantion readily available, plus the opportunity to verify it in stores.

What we're witnessing is a jump in technology as we've seen them many times before.

Quoting Joni (Reply 135):
Do you have some trend data? Note that S60 devices haven't been sold in the US in large numbers.

In Europe it is probably still too early to tell, especially from the outside. In the US, the iPhone has even just in the few months since its release already eclipsed the entire competition, pushing the long-established Windows mobile models out of the way in actual use on the web, which is quite remarkable and an indication that there is actual substance behind the hype.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 133):
have you seriously read those articles?

Yes, and I even went as far as to read the original articles behind the links he gave.
I personally take a delight in reading material that is offbeat in a healthy way.

Glad to hear there's an iPhone SDK coming -- you were the actually first one to inform the forum of it, I think. But I can't blame Apple for being too innovative here, taking into account what the competion has achieved in the way of 3rd party developers.

[Edited 2007-12-12 10:58:23]
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4296
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:23 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 125):
I'm going to deliberately resist the temptation to take you to task for ageism.

Hehehehe, I was merely saying that my generation has grown up with those features and are comfortable with them. It's a part of our lives. Just like how we had nice bus rides to school while your generation had to walk 10 miles barefoot in the snow uphill in both directions.  Wink Big grin
 
BAViscount
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:01 am

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:28 am

I'd be happy to have an iPhone....if only the storage capacity weren't so small. Just not big enough to store all of my music.
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: IPhone A Flop In Europe?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 am



Quoting BAViscount (Reply 139):
BAViscount From United Kingdom (England), joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 1

Good grief....you're back!!!!!  Smile

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