Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:41 am

Unfortunatly I think this will seriously taint the image of the late "Crocidile Hunter".

Terri Irwin has granted permission for the "Sea Shepard" society to name one of their vessels after the late television star.

For those not in the know the Sea Shepard Society was formed back in the seventies by radicalized members of Greenpeace who thought the civil disobedince tactics of that orginization of that group where too tame. Since that time they have commited acts of piracy on the high seas, damaged and sunk ships in the name of their enviromental "Causes" Currently the group finds sanctuary in Australia and has sympathizes in several different countries.

They have a particular penchant with harrasing Japanese ships by forcing collisions with them and attempting to foul their wheels and steering gear.

Terri claims that Steve had respects for these pirates, but I think that is a load of crap, I don't recall Steve putting innocent peoples lives at risk to make a point.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Dec...4670,CrocodileHunterWhales,00.html
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:17 am

Well, it's not uncommon for the spouses of late celebs to soil their good name by allowing these kooky, outlaw special interest groups to namesake their chariots of lawlessness. Maybe the Sea Sheperd Society made a huge donation to the Steve Irwin Foundation. May the ELF will name their secret headquarters after him
 
QFA380
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:59 am

Old news over here I think it was in Wednesday's paper.

Japan is stealing from the rest of the world by killing these whales, the anti-whaling organisation have voted against Japan's slaying's. They go out and kill whales in international waters. Now when most of the world is against you and you take something from the rest of the world it is wrong. Seeing as though noone is willing to stand up against Japan as Japan is one of the biggest traders in the world. Imagine if a much smaller country, that yeilds less power in the world did this. They would be absolutely hammered by the international community. Sorry but someone has to stand up against these people.

What a particular organisation, and family do with their name is up to them and we have no right to comment.

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
I don't recall Steve putting innocent peoples lives at risk to make a point.



I do. Proving the point that he can do it, putting his innocent 3 month old in one hand and dangling meat in front of a 5m long crocodile with the other.
 
KevinL1011
Posts: 2858
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:48 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:17 am



Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

At first, the thread title made me think it was about al Quaeda having a sense of humor.  beady 

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
they have commited acts of piracy on the high seas, damaged and sunk ships in the name of their environmental "Causes"

And burned down a few "Hummer" dealerships.

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Terri Irwin

Wouldn't that make them "Terrists"?  sarcastic 
 
fraspotter
Posts: 2282
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:24 am



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
we have no right to comment.

Sure we can... It doesn't mean she has to listen, but we still have the right to express our opinion don't we?
 
QFA380
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:12 am



Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 4):

Someone who was married to one of the most influential environmentalists, and because she has supported an organisation who's primary principles of environmentalism by force we don't agree with, warrants us to go as far as saying she is supporting terrorism? When one's opinion is based on nothing but what the media spews out, do we really have a right to comment?
 
GDB
Posts: 14343
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:24 am

Anyone who thinks Greenpeace or similar are 'terrorists' has a very odd idea about what a terrorist is.
The sort of definition a dictatorship would use, anyone who dissents in any way, is a 'subversive' or 'terrorist'.
That Junta in Burma said the same of those unarmed monks they suppressed recently.
Or how a Senator McCarthy would have seen it.
 
HOMER71
Posts: 2142
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:56 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:19 pm



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 5):
do we really have a right to comment?

To echo FRAspotter, uh, yeah, we do.

But, go ahead and keep whining about it, that's your right...  Yeah sure
 
FlyKev
Posts: 1295
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:34 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:04 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 6):
Anyone who thinks Greenpeace or similar are 'terrorists' has a very odd idea about what a terrorist is.

"Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political or ideological goals"
- Wikipedia

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):

For those not in the know the Sea Shepard Society was formed back in the seventies by radicalized members of Greenpeace who thought the civil disobedince tactics of that orginization of that group where too tame. Since that time they have commited acts of piracy on the high seas, damaged and sunk ships in the name of their enviromental "Causes" Currently the group finds sanctuary in Australia and has sympathizes in several different countries.

Therefore I agree with the original poster, that they are terrorists. There is more to terrorists than Al Queda, Iraq and Islamic you know.

Kev.
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:11 pm



Quoting FlyKev (Reply 8):
"Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political or ideological goals"
- Wikipedia

Well if you go by that, the US government (or any country that has ever started a war) would also be terrorists.

Soren  santahat 
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4283
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:34 pm

A terrorist attacks civilians not directly involved with the war/conflict/struggle whatever you want to call it. These environmentalists may be annoying, but they go only after the people on board the wahling ships. As such they only go for people direclty involved making them not terrorists, annnoying as they may be.

The word terrorist is much over-used these days.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:02 pm



Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.



Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Terri Irwin has granted permission for the "Sea Shepard" society to name one of their vessels after the late television star.

You are obviously working hard at your reputation as a raving lunatic around here.

Either you produce concrete substantiation for your labeling of any kind of environmentalists summarily as "terrorists" or just shut the hell up.

Your post clearly and deliberately violates the rules of the forum ("Flamebait / harsh language", "Factually wrong", "Childish / silly ("Boeing vs Airbus" etc)", "This post is in violation of other rules"), so either you know important things we don't and let your wisdom shine upon us or you should have the courage to suggest deletion of this thread yourself.

So which is it?  eyebrow 

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
Japan is stealing from the rest of the world by killing these whales, the anti-whaling organisation have voted against Japan's slaying's. They go out and kill whales in international waters. Now when most of the world is against you and you take something from the rest of the world it is wrong. Seeing as though noone is willing to stand up against Japan as Japan is one of the biggest traders in the world.

Japan has lobbied hard at the Whaling Commission to gain a permit for whale hunting but with no success. They are basically in breach of international accords with their continuing expeditions, but at least so far no other country has escalated the matter to the application of military force, which would be unprecedented now but probably just a matter of time in the long run.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
Imagine if a much smaller country, that yeilds less power in the world did this. They would be absolutely hammered by the international community.

Not really. Norway is also continuing with its whaling activities among a few other smaller countries and indigenous populations (who have official permits, however), and it's still Japan that gets the most criticism.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
Sorry but someone has to stand up against these people.

Agreed. As long as care is being taken that the risk to the whaling crews is minimized, pressuring actions against the illegal whaling fleets are justifiable.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
I do. Proving the point that he can do it, putting his innocent 3 month old in one hand and dangling meat in front of a 5m long crocodile with the other.

Croc: "Hmmm.... Lunch!"  crazy 
 
JCKastrup
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:57 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:08 pm

The fact that they actually ask for Teri Irwin's permission to name the ship after Steve, instead of just doing it, makes them rather polite terrorists IMO.

[Edited 2007-12-08 09:09:26]
 
GDB
Posts: 14343
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:02 pm

While I might not agree with this particular group's methods, labelling them in the category of terrorists like ETA, RAF, IRA , PLO or whatever loose bunch of like-minded people ran those camps in Afghanistan, is a huge stretch.

What separates protesters, including ones engaged in civil disobedience, from terrorists?
A few years ago in the UK, protests against scientific animal testing, were at there height.
This included loud demos outside of labs, often trying to physically obstruct.
But some went further, using threatening letters, phone-calls-still not 'terrorists' but guilty of serious crime.

Then sending letter bombs, planting bombs under lab staff cars, this is where the jump to (low level) terrorism is made.
Hardly the IRA or Al Queda, just a small bunch of fanatics not prepared to engage with democratic processes, to use violent force to force change, by intimidation.
 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:24 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
While I might not agree with this particular group's methods, labelling them in the category of terrorists like ETA, RAF, IRA , PLO or whatever loose bunch of like-minded people ran those camps in Afghanistan, is a huge stretch.

Agree, it is a stretch. I put them in the same group as ELF and ALF. That would be the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front (Not the TV puppet). Although these guys do operate like Al-Queda, in that these groups are probably not centrally led but a number of smaller "cells" who independently, burn ski resorts, car dealerships and destroy research labs on their own but use the group name.

Sea Shepard however however is a centrally led group. And I think it is very appropriate to compare Australia with Taliban controled Afghanistan giving sanctuary to Osama in this case because they are giving a safe port for these nuts.

Quoting JCKastrup (Reply 13):
makes them rather polite terrorists

Agreed it was nice of them.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
As long as care is being taken that the risk to the whaling crews is minimized,

How does trying to sink their boat "minimize" the risk, especially in those cold waters where if the whalers in up in the water they will have minutes to live? Playing bumper boats in Antartic waters just doesn't fit.
 
GDB
Posts: 14343
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:38 pm

L-188, given the history of the IRA and the US, (not just the large amounts of money and arms they got), but more about that not one convicted IRA terrorist (including for murder), was ever extradited to the UK (which most, like it or not, were from), since the US courts saw them as potential 'political prisoner's', I'd not go there with claiming friendly, more to the point, allied nations, are harbouring terrorists as an act of policy.
Because by that logic..........
In fact they chose to hide in the US for that reason, in the Republic of Ireland they would be extradited, after the Irish state dealt with them, they seeing them as subversives.

Not brought up to throw anything in a collective nations face, but to illustrate that things just are not that clear cut.
 
us330
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:50 pm

Just so y'all know, the comparison of "bumper boats" isn't quite accurate. The Japanese whaling vessels are considerably larger than any ship in Sea Shepherd's two-strong fleet. If anything, it is the activists that are placing themselves more at risk than the whalers.
Also, note that it is the Japanese that are in violation of international regulations, not the activists. Though the Japanese claim that they are harvesting whales for research-related purposes, it is quite unclear what those purposes are. If anything, given new technological developments in tracking, understanding animal behavior, and dna science, one doesn't need to kill a whale anymore just to see what it's been up to. A simply removed skin sample or radio transmitter attached to the animal will accomplish both of those aims fairly well.
The only "research" the Japanese are doing is determining which whale is tastier to eat.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:30 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
Either you produce concrete substantiation for your labeling of any kind of environmentalists summarily as "terrorists" or just shut the hell up.

He did not claim that all environmentalists are terrorists.

As for Sea Shepherd, http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/whales_SSCS_history.html

On July 16th, 1979, the Sea Shepherd found the Sierra and chased it into the port of Leixoes. Captain Watson rammed the Sierra twice in harbor, tearing the hull open to the waterline and forcing the ship into port for repairs. After a million dollars of uninsured repairs, the Sierra was sunk by Sea Shepherd operatives in Lisbon harbor in Portugal on February 6, 1980. Sea Shepherd permanently retired the pirate whaler Sierra and prevented anymore whales from being taken by her.

---

That same month, Sea Shepherd operatives sank two Spanish whalers in to the port of Vigo, Spain, (Ibsa I and Ibsa II)after Spain refused to comply with quota regulations on fin whales.

---

We had taken six whalers out of operation but lost the Sea Shepherd when it was taken from us by a judge without a hearing or a trial after he took a bribe from the Sierra's owners. To keep the Sea Shepherd from being converted to a whaler, Captain Watson scuttled his own ship in Leixoes harbor on the first day of January, 1980.

---

In November of 1986, Sea Shepherd engineers Rod Coronado and David Howitt arrived in Iceland and scuttled two of the four Icelandic whaling ships at dockside. They also destroyed the whale meat processing plant in Iceland.

---

In January 1994, a Sea Shepherd crew scuttled the illegal Norwegian whaler Senet in harbor in Southern Norway.

---

In 1998, the illegal Norwegian whaler Morild, owned by the most notorious whale killer in Norway - Stienar Bastesen - was sunk.
 
msnell
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:03 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:51 pm

These people are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, if countries are whaling illegally then someone needs to do something. Ramming another ship is hugely irresponsible, dangerous and illegal. Even a small ship is perfectly capable of holing a large ship, the forces involved are phenomenal. I sympathise with their cause but am amazed that they have found qualified seafarers willing to ram another vessel, the consequences could be disasterous.

As for Steve Irwin, he was famous for 'show-boating' around wild animals and sometimes acting (in the view of many) irresponsibly. I think that it is quite apt to name the vessel after him - both had noble goals but a questionable way of achieving them! Steve Irwin did much to promote conservation, and as far as I know he did not have to break the law to do so, perhaps 'Sea Shepherd' can take note.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:42 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
Either you produce concrete substantiation for your labeling of any kind of environmentalists summarily as "terrorists" or just shut the hell up.

Speaking of flamebait...

What's the matter Klausy? Iphone sales rumored to have tanked in Europe and you have your panties in a wad? You have a consistent reputation for being one of the most narcissistic and one-sided posters on these boards.

You want proof of "terrorism"...actually, "piracy" is a better term...

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 18):
As for Sea Shepherd, http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/whales_SSCS_history.html

On July 16th, 1979, the Sea Shepherd found the Sierra and chased it into the port of Leixoes. Captain Watson rammed the Sierra twice in harbor, tearing the hull open to the waterline and forcing the ship into port for repairs. After a million dollars of uninsured repairs, the Sierra was sunk by Sea Shepherd operatives in Lisbon harbor in Portugal on February 6, 1980. Sea Shepherd permanently retired the pirate whaler Sierra and prevented anymore whales from being taken by her.

---

That same month, Sea Shepherd operatives sank two Spanish whalers in to the port of Vigo, Spain, (Ibsa I and Ibsa II)after Spain refused to comply with quota regulations on fin whales.

---

We had taken six whalers out of operation but lost the Sea Shepherd when it was taken from us by a judge without a hearing or a trial after he took a bribe from the Sierra's owners. To keep the Sea Shepherd from being converted to a whaler, Captain Watson scuttled his own ship in Leixoes harbor on the first day of January, 1980.

---

In November of 1986, Sea Shepherd engineers Rod Coronado and David Howitt arrived in Iceland and scuttled two of the four Icelandic whaling ships at dockside. They also destroyed the whale meat processing plant in Iceland.

---

In January 1994, a Sea Shepherd crew scuttled the illegal Norwegian whaler Senet in harbor in Southern Norway.

---

In 1998, the illegal Norwegian whaler Morild, owned by the most notorious whale killer in Norway - Stienar Bastesen - was sunk.

Sorry Klausy, but those are criminal acts worse than the illegal whaling itself! This would be the equivilant of me flying a Cessna 172 along a busy commercial airport approach path with the hope of ramming a 747 or A320 to stop those "polluting airlines".

I have the utmost disrespect for commercial whaling, especially in breach of international charters. But vehicular assault on the high seas is piracy, and warrants a naval response.

You missed a perfectly good opportunity to shut the hell up.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:52 pm



Quoting Msnell (Reply 19):
know he did not have to break the law to do so,

Exactly!

Quoting Us330 (Reply 17):
If anything, it is the activists that are placing themselves more at risk than the whalers.

Are you saying it is ok to put somebody else at risk because the risk to yourself is greater? Don't buy that.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't that make them "Terrists"?

Ha!!!

Missed that the first time I responded.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 17):
Also, note that it is the Japanese that are in violation of international regulations, not the activists. Though the Japanese claim that they are harvesting whales for research-related purposes, it is quite unclear what those purposes are. If anything, given new technological developments in tracking, understanding animal behavior, and dna science, one doesn't need to kill a whale anymore just to see what it's been up to. A simply removed skin sample or radio transmitter attached to the animal will accomplish both of those aims fairly well.
The only "research" the Japanese are doing is determining which whale is tastier to eat.

Agree, I am not a big fan of their operations either and hope that they end.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:50 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Though the Japanese claim that they are harvesting whales for research-related purposes,

"So, is whale heart really as tough as they say? Mmm, let me try some for myself and do my own research. Tasty."
 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:52 am



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 22):

"So, is whale heart really as tough as they say? Mmm, let me try some for myself and do my own research. Tasty."

I have had Bowhead Whale Flipper....Reminded me of Salmon Roe.
 
alfa75
Posts: 488
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:48 am



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 9):
Well if you go by that, the US government (or any country that has ever started a war) would also be terrorists.

Yep.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:29 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):
Sea Shepard however however is a centrally led group. And I think it is very appropriate to compare Australia with Taliban controled Afghanistan giving sanctuary to Osama in this case because they are giving a safe port for these nuts.

You might be close to a point there. If Kevin07 acted on popular opinion in Ausghanistan, he would be sending HMAS Collins down to see how the whalers like catching tin fish.
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:46 am



Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
They have a particular penchant with harrasing Japanese ships by forcing collisions with them and attempting to foul their wheels and steering gear.

Dude....these are not cruise ships but whaling ships, killing whales for "Scientific research" that is never published...BIG difference!!!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:52 am



Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
For those not in the know the Sea Shepard Society was formed back in the seventies by radicalized members of Greenpeace who thought the civil disobedince tactics of that orginization of that group where too tame. Since that time they have commited acts of piracy on the high seas, damaged and sunk ships in the name of their enviromental "Causes" Currently the group finds sanctuary in Australia and has sympathizes in several different countries.

They have a particular penchant with harrasing Japanese ships by forcing collisions with them and attempting to foul their wheels and steering gear.

Paul Watson, who founded Sea Shepherd, was one of the founders of Greenpeace as well. As far as "acts of piracy" go, I think a lot of people would call it citizen's arrest.

Also, you really should point out what Japanese ships Sea Shepherd "harasses." They are whaling ships that are violating countless international laws.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
And burned down a few "Hummer" dealerships.

Wrong group.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):

Agree, it is a stretch. I put them in the same group as ELF and ALF. That would be the Earth Liberation Front

Except that Sea Shepherd are acting to enforce laws that are being violated and are not being properly enforced. ELF are simply blowing things up they don't like.
 
KevinL1011
Posts: 2858
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:48 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:00 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Wrong group.

Then was it the "Judean Peoples Front"? Or the "Peoples Front of Judea"?  sarcastic 
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:21 am

perhaps we send the Japanese whale fleet off the coast of Alaska and see if you still think the same way?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:28 am



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):

And burned down a few "Hummer" dealerships



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 28):

Then was it the "Judean Peoples Front"? Or the "Peoples Front of Judea"?

No, it was the ELF
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:18 am

last time I looked it was happening in my region of the world...amazing how so many from places which have no oceans have an opinion on something that doesn't affect them. Get real Shawn, if this was happening off the coast of AK you'd be out there with a shot-gun or a ship doing the identical of SS. Fact is that Japanese aren't hunting off your coast and we down here have every right to stop this appalling research which ends up with whales being used in curry.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gcCeUp_7uUHMIsfClNjny-kDOJ1w
 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:31 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 31):
Fact is that Japanese aren't hunting off your coast

Japanese and Asian High seas Gillnetters are another issue entirely.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:35 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 32):

Japanese and Asian High seas Gillnetters are another issue entirely.

High Seas gillnetting has been banned for 14 years. This group pushes for the enforcement of laws regarding whaling, including the international moratorium on whaling. These are laws that the Japanese government regularly flaunts.
 
freckles
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:29 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:37 am

I've heard of these lunatics, utterly ridiculous.

Along the line of the mentalist PETA clan we have over here in the UK, digging up the graves of a guinea pig farmers dead mother to prove a point. (he was breeding them for medicine testing).

Horrible people

Morgan
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:41 am



Quoting Freckles (Reply 34):
I've heard of these lunatics, utterly ridiculous.

Along the line of the mentalist PETA clan we have over here in the UK, digging up the graves of a guinea pig farmers dead mother to prove a point. (he was breeding them for medicine testing).

Horrible people

Horrible people? What are the whaling boats going out and killing endangered and threatened species? What about the governments that are not enforcing the laws? Or how about the Japanese government, which aids businesses that sell whale meat?
 
L-188
Topic Author
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:45 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
High Seas gillnetting has been banned for 14 years.

Dude, that is why I said it was a different issue. But through the early 80's until the 200 mile limit came about there where big issues about Japanese salmon interception. A lot of fishermen still think they are cheating.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
This group pushes for the enforcement of laws regarding whaling, including the international moratorium on whaling.

Is Japan even a signatory to that moratorium? If they aren't then they can tell everybody to pound sand.

And there is a big difference between pushing for enforcement and vigilantism, which is about the best thing you can call what Sea Shepard does.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4728
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:49 am



Quoting Us330 (Reply 17):
Also, note that it is the Japanese that are in violation of international regulations

Question: is Japan a signatory to said international regulations? Last I checked we were still shy of a one-world government.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 17):
not the activists

As stated previously, a civilian vessel intentionally sinking another civilian vessel on the high seas is piracy and attempted murder. Oops, you lose.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
I think a lot of people would call it citizen's arrest.

Which may be legal in many US states, but last I checked there were no provisions in maritime law supporting such an ideal.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Except that Sea Shepherd are acting to enforce laws that are being violated and are not being properly enforced

Except that Sea Shepherd have no authority to engage in such enforcement. I find it funny that you speak of laws and treaties when your beloved group is continually violating the very same.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:51 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 36):

Is Japan even a signatory to that moratorium?

Japan is a member of the IWC and is bound by treaty to honor the duly passed moratorium. They have consistently acted in a way completely contradictory to both the letter and the spirit of the ban.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 36):
And there is a big difference between pushing for enforcement and vigilantism, which is about the best thing you can call what Sea Shepard does.

In that case, all those arguments about people carrying and using guns to solve a threatening situation don't have a leg to stand on.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:27 am



Quoting Freckles (Reply 34):
I've heard of these lunatics, utterly ridiculous.

Along the line of the mentalist PETA clan we have over here in the UK, digging up the graves of a guinea pig farmers dead mother to prove a point. (he was breeding them for medicine testing).

Horrible people

Morgan

you sound like someone who doesn't have a clue...tip, if you ever come to Australia and you have the desire for whale watching you know who to thank if you see them, if they become extinct in the process you can take it up with the Japanese...your attitude is appalling.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 36):
And there is a big difference between pushing for enforcement and vigilantism, which is about the best thing you can call what Sea Shepard does.

when was the last time you saw it being enforced legally? Australian government won't do a thing about it because of our trade interests with Japan..so what's left to do? watch the Japanese slaughter hump-backs or do something about it?

obviously negotiation hasn't worked...they thumb their nose at the wider community in the name of research which is nothing more than a curry for dinner. Like I said, let it happen in your area and we'll see how quick you are to kick up a stink about it.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
Except that Sea Shepherd have no authority to engage in such enforcement. I find it funny that you speak of laws and treaties when your beloved group is continually violating the very same.

so what's your solution? hello, we're talking about a bloody vulnerable species here...does it take extinction for you clowns to get with the deal?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26797
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:41 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
Question: is Japan a signatory to said international regulations? Last I checked we were still shy of a one-world government.

Japan is a member of the IWC, a group formed by treaty. As such, they are bound to the acts of the IWC, including the ban on whaling. Violation of this policy amounts to piracy

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):

Except that Sea Shepherd have no authority to engage in such enforcement.



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):

Which may be legal in many US states, but last I checked there were no provisions in maritime law supporting such an ideal.

Wanna bet?

The United Nations World Charter for Nature states in Section 21:

States and, to the extent they are able, other public authorities, international organizations, individuals, groups and corporations shall…:
(c) Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the conservation of nature, and the protection of the environment;
(d) Ensure that activities within their jurisdiction , or control do not cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;
(e) safeguard and conserver nature in areas beyond national jurisdiction.

And finally, Section 24 states:

Each person has a duty to act in accordance with the provisions of the present Charter; acting individually, in association with others or through participation in the political process, each person shall strive to ensure that the objectives and requirements of the present charter are met.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:53 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/news/whale-wat...66.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Apathy in the face of whale slaughter Paul Sheehan December 10, 2007
Some extracts.
"Yet the only intimidating presence that stands between the whaling ships and the slaughter of more than a thousand whales - the Japanese have set themselves a quota of 1030 - will be a private ship sailing under a Jolly Roger on which the crossed bones have been replaced by a trident and a shepherd's crook. The shepherd's crook signifies that this ship is operated by Sea Shepherd, the environmental vigilante of the sea.

"We shouldn't be doing this, we shouldn't have to," the ship's captain and Sea Shepherd's founder, Paul Watson, told me by satellite phone a few days ago. "If you want to stop pirates, you have to send pirates. It was a pirate, Captain Morgan, who shut down the slave trade in the Caribbean. It wasn't the British navy.""

"Tough talk, but when I sought a response from Garrett to the imminent arrival of the Japanese whalers and Sea Shepherd, I received this text message: "Existing Labor policy includes increased diplomatic effort, consideration of legal avenues, and monitoring."

Monitoring! If the Australian navy does not make an appearance off Antarctica before Christmas, it will be a disaster not just for whales but will stick a harpoon into the credibility of the Federal Labor Government when the Southern Ocean boils with the blood of innocents being slaughtered on its watch."

So HMAS Collins could yet make an appearance, although if the Navy does go it will likely be a surface ship.

Watson has a comment for those on this thread who have called him a terrorist.
""We have been called eco-terrorists," Watson said. "It's a strange label because we've never hurt anyone, while the Japanese have filled the ocean with blood. It's an audacious hypocrisy.""
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:45 pm



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
I do. Proving the point that he can do it, putting his innocent 3 month old in one hand and dangling meat in front of a 5m long crocodile with the other.

My father bought me a ride in an aerobatic plane for my 4th birthday. Rolls, loops, and a high speed pass. I laughed half of the time. Awesome!

Some would see allowing a child into that situation as being irresponsible. However, my father, have been in aviation for decades, knew the pilot, knew the requirements, and knew the safety precautions involved and had no apprehension with allowing a very experienced pilot take me up in this situation. The pilot had 6 figures hours of experience and had been doing aerobatics for 20 years. So, was it irresponsible? Absolutely not. I'm sure that some overbearing and overprotective soccer mom would raise objections, but I was not raised to be afraid of life.

Stever Irwin was perhaps one of the most experienced people on the face of the earth in terms of expertise on crodocile habits and actions. I think that his baby was perfectly safe and you are an overprotective soccer mom.  Smile

Now, if he dangled it in front of a stingray, that would be a different story.  Wink
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:41 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 36):
Is Japan even a signatory to that moratorium? If they aren't then they can tell everybody to pound sand.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
Japan is a member of the IWC, a group formed by treaty. As such, they are bound to the acts of the IWC, including the ban on whaling. Violation of this policy amounts to piracy



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
Which may be legal in many US states, but last I checked there were no provisions in maritime law supporting such an ideal.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
Wanna bet?

The United Nations World Charter for Nature states in Section 21:

States and, to the extent they are able, other public authorities, international organizations, individuals, groups and corporations shall…:
(c) Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the conservation of nature, and the protection of the environment;
(d) Ensure that activities within their jurisdiction , or control do not cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;
(e) safeguard and conserver nature in areas beyond national jurisdiction.

And finally, Section 24 states:

Each person has a duty to act in accordance with the provisions of the present Charter; acting individually, in association with others or through participation in the political process, each person shall strive to ensure that the objectives and requirements of the present charter are met.

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.
 
freckles
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:29 am

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:09 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Horrible people? What are the whaling boats going out and killing endangered and threatened species? What about the governments that are not enforcing the laws? Or how about the Japanese government, which aids businesses that sell whale meat?

Excuse me? Are you completely insane?

I am talking about humans here, not whales, despite the immorality associated.

Morgan
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:42 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Paul Watson, who founded Sea Shepherd, was one of the founders of Greenpeace as well. As far as "acts of piracy" go, I think a lot of people would call it citizen's arrest.

Sinking ships is not a citizen's arrest.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Except that Sea Shepherd are acting to enforce laws that are being violated and are not being properly enforced. ELF are simply blowing things up they don't like.

Sea Shepherd is also "blowing things up they don't like" (except they prefer sinking, since it's cheaper).
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:56 pm



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 46):
Sinking ships is not a citizen's arrest.

Think of it as taking out the tyres on the getaway car.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4728
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:17 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 47):
Think of it as taking out the tyres on the getaway car.

Usually that doesn't involve a rescue mission.....
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:28 pm



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 48):
Usually that doesn't involve a rescue mission.....

We seem to be in fundamental disagreement here as to who the bad guys are in this scenario. Whaling is illegal. It is like poaching. Do you have a problem with Tanzanian park rangers shooting poachers to prevent the slaughter of elephants or rhino being killed to provide useless "medicine" to impotent Chinese men ? This is an exact parallel of that situation, except that this is not a nationally-constituted ranger service doing the shooting, and that is simply because the poaching occurs in international waters, a situation without parallel on land. In all other considerations, it is the same.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:25 pm

"The ship was relaunched by Terri Irwin, Steve's widow. It was renamed not just in honour of Steve Irwin, but because he was a supporter of Sea Shepherd and because Australia has a potentially major role in stopping whaling in this region."

let me guess, Irwin is a terrorist too?
 
QFA380
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: Eco-Terrorists Name Boat After Steve Irwin.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:47 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 43):

The level of maturity and understanding of a 4 year old a 3 month old are poles apart. He may have been one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people in the world when it comes to crocodiles, but did he know his son? What if the kid got scared and started fidget ting trying to get out of dads arms. Croc sees some more meat, lets go for the bigger one. I'm sure if your father had of sent you up when you were 3 months old would be irresponsible. You could fall out of the seat, you'd probably be scared shitless and would have no idea what was going on.

I personally didn't believe he was out of line bringing his kid in, but I just pulled up an example to what L-188 said. He was definitely putting his sons life at great risk but what is life without risk?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 25 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos