Falcon84
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"Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:53 am

Well, there goes the image of Texas as a conservative place.  rotfl 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/07/naked.twister.ap/index.html

I agree with the city and the neighbors, who want to get this show away from the neighborhood. When you have all those cars and traffic and noise in a residential area, that's not good for property values and the rep of the neighborhood.

The guy ought to open up a night club somewhere if he wants to have sex with 100 other people, not in a neighborhood where there are kids, and people who didn't bargain for a Swingers' club next door. This isn't an invasion of privacy, or forcing morals on anyone. It's just common sense.
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alberchico
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:13 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
When you have all those cars and traffic and noise in a residential area, that's not good for property values and the rep of the neighborhood.

Then you would have to shut down every bar. club and business in residential areas that attract people....

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
where there are kids, and people who didn't bargain for a Swingers' club next door

You think that's weird. Where I live there is a strip club LITERALLY right mext to a church. Yet nobody has complained to have it shut down.
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KevinL1011
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:13 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Well, there goes the image of Texas as a conservative place

Isn't it "Steers and Queers"?

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
The guy ought to open up a night club somewhere if he wants to have sex with 100 other people

And an AIDS clinic.

I don't understand how this can happen. Aren't there any Zoning codes? Fire safety and occupancy regulations? The city government must be asleep.
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Falcon84
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:19 am



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Then you would have to shut down every bar. club and business in residential areas that attract people....

Most cities have zoning laws prohibiting such businesses in neighborhoods. In this case, the city could simply change the zoning law outlawing this kind of business in a residential area.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 2):
Aren't there any Zoning codes?

There may be, but he didn't apply for a business, sounds like. He just has a big get-together of a bunch of wierd-ass people.  Big grin
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WestWing
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:09 am

Hypthetical question to think about.

If the owner of the house were having the same number people (= same traffic) for a Christian prayer sermon/meetng and the ambient noise from the congregation (gospel singing etc.) at the meeting was at a decibel level similar to the noise from the house for the sex orgies, would the neighbors have objected as strenuously?

If you think they would have objected to this too, then the protest is truly about the level noise and inconvenience to the neighbors. If you think they would not have objected, then the protest is mainly due to of their ideas on immorality.
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:24 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This isn't an invasion of privacy, or forcing morals on anyone.

Yes, it is

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):


The guy ought to open up a night club somewhere if he wants to have sex with 100 other people, not in a neighborhood where there are kids, and people who didn't bargain for a Swingers' club next door.

So what. It is his own home. I don't like bible thumpers and think that their having prayer readings in their homes are subversive activities that poison the minds of children. Should I get them zoned out of worship?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
In this case, the city could simply change the zoning law outlawing this kind of business in a residential area.

Apparently, this isn't a business. The only money changing hands are donations to cover the food, drink, cleaning, etc. Apparently, many people don't give any money when they go to the house. This is a town trying to regulate what people do with their bodies, and it is sickening.
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:42 am

From the article it seems to boil down to outlawing "live sex performances" - but can it be considered a performance if the performers are not being paid, and the other guests do not constitute a paying audience, but are they themselves "performing" too ?

It does seem in this case to be prurience over privacy (I've driven through that general neighbourhood, SW of Dallas - there are more churches than gas stations) - it's this guy's home, what he chooses to do there (admittedly with several hundred of his closest friends) is his business and his business only.

I don't know how things like maximum occupancy and fire regulations apply to private homes - do they at all ? If they don't then there's no argument here - it's not a business, it's a private function, if they don't breach the peace with too much noise (a hundred people playing naked Twister could get a little loud, I grant you) then the authorities don't have a leg to stand on.
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KevinL1011
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:01 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
I've driven through that general neighbourhood

Trying to find a handicapped space near the party?  razz 

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
then the authorities don't have a leg to stand on.

That's what this is all about.  idea 
The neighbors are jealous because they weren't invited and the authorities can't play Twister without a leg to stand on!
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:04 am



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 7):
Trying to find a handicapped space near the party?

Visiting a sick friend in hospital actually  snooty .

Bitch.  grumpy  tongue 

Had I known about the party however... one should never turn down the opportunity to do make several hundred new friends  Smile
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CaptOveur
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:55 pm

If it doesn't make money is it really a business? If it isn't a business can you shut it down?

Last I checked people were allowed to have parties at their houses.. What goes on at those parties is between the people there. As long as the people aren't humping on the front lawn I don't see the issue.

If you think your neighbor has too many friends who park all over, move. If you just don't like your neighbor or their lifestyle, move. It wasn't that long ago people all moved out of a neighborhood the second the first black person moved in. Now are people going to start moving the second the first morally relaxed person moves in? The religious right needs to stop legislating morality.. It will keep the normal people from completely rejecting them.

Clearly they need to deal with the noise issue thing, but enforcing noise ordinances can be tricky at best given the way most of them are worded.

If my neighbor had parties like this I would be on my roof with binoculars.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:16 pm

I've been to Duncanville. It is a south-western suburb of Dallas, Texas, where it is easier to buy a semi-auto clone of an AK-47 than a bottle of beer (It is a dry county, to buy or drink beer, you'll have to become a member odf a private club, and the owners charge an arm and a leg for admission). There are churches about everywhere.
It is just across the freeway from the predominantly black neighbourhood around Camp Wisdom Blvd., also lots of churches.

Jan
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wingnut767
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:41 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
In this case, the city could simply change the zoning law outlawing this kind of business in a residential area.

Apparently, this isn't a business. The only money changing hands are donations to cover the food, drink, cleaning, etc. Apparently, many people don't give any money when they go to the house. This is a town trying to regulate what people do with their bodies, and it is sickening.

Correct. It is not a for profit business

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This isn't an invasion of privacy, or forcing morals on anyone.

Yes, it is

Ditto -Yes it is.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
don't know how things like maximum occupancy and fire regulations apply to private homes - do they at all ?

No

To me the only problem is he trying to be a good neighbor. What he does in his house is his deal (within the law) but the traffic and noise would probably be unwelcomed by most of us. Maybe he needs to find a home with a little more elbow room.
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:46 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 11):
Maybe he needs to find a home with a little more elbow room.

I don't remember "elbows" featuring in Twister. And in Naked Twister I'm sure the house rules involve far more alluring body parts  biggrin 
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MD11Engineer
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:56 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 11):
To me the only problem is he trying to be a good neighbor. What he does in his house is his deal (within the law) but the traffic and noise would probably be unwelcomed by most of us.

I agree. If thee would be 50-100 cars parking in my street every night, with associated banging of doors and music from the car stereos, it would annoy me too, besides the fact that his guests are probably taking up parking space normally used by the other residents. I felt the same in Berlin, where we had an industrial scale bakery across the street in an otherwise residential neighbourhood. They didn't have a parking lot of their own, but parket their fleet of 50 or so delivery vans out in the street, occupying all parking space on the block. We couldn't do anything against the owner, since he paid his road tax, he was entitled to park his cars in public streets.

Jan
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fumanchewd
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:14 pm



Quoting WestWing (Reply 4):
If the owner of the house were having the same number people (= same traffic) for a Christian prayer sermon/meetng and the ambient noise from the congregation (gospel singing etc.) at the meeting was at a decibel level similar to the noise from the house for the sex orgies, would the neighbors have objected as strenuously?

Most zoning laws require parking for places of worship. If it is proven that there are more than a certain amount of people going (definitely less than 50) then parking has to be provided. This would not be possible in an already built residential neighborhood. Zoning (and fire) laws would prohibit regular meetings of 50-100 people no matter what the reason.

I agree with you that the people of this particular neighborhood (as would 90% of neighborhoods in the world) would certainly discriminate with religious meetings over sex meetings.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
It is just across the freeway from the predominantly black neighbourhood around Camp Wisdom Blvd., also lots of churches.

There you go. Its tough to enforce local zoning laws when the majority of the people (including the city council) mostly believe the same thing.

I am all for freedom of speech, but I wouldn't want 50-100 cars in my neighborhood so often. Maybe everynow and then for a party, but not on a consistent basis. If the city can prove that this was because of parking and zoning and not over censorship and the false charge of "for profit" then I think that its fair.
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Falcon84
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:02 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
The rest is just hyprocritical, people trying to force their beliefs on somebody else.

Bullshit. It has nothing to do with beliefs. If it were a loud church gathering, I'd feel the same way. If it's a disruption to a quiet neighborhood, it should be zoned. If you've got dozens of cars on a neighborhood street, that's a problem. If what is going on inside isn't causing a problem outside that property, that's one thing, but when the noise or the traffic becomes a problem, there's nothing hypocritical about it.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
And if you don't want to take part in an orgie INSIDE a private house, don't go there.

True enough. But this guy is putting his neighbors into it with the unacceptable amound of traffic and loud noise coming from the house. THAT makes it a neighborhood problem.

If some nosy priss was simply looking into a window, and then going to the police, because they didn't like what was going on in there, that's one thing. But if I'm next door, and the traffic makes it impossible for me to leave my house, and the noise is invading on MY privacy, then it is MY BUSINESS.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
What right does any city council have to say who or how many we invite over to party at our place ?

Every right. Especially if other people in the neighborhood are complaining. If I'm in that neighborhood, I have EVERY right to complain, and ask for a cease and desist. You're all worried about this guy's rights, but don't seem to give two shits about the rights of those in the neighborhood who have to put up with this crap every week. What about them? Or do they have less rights than this guy?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
Would the city council have objected so strenuously if the neighbours had been atheists complaining about him having 200 people over to sing dreary psalms very loudly ? I think not - it's pure hypocrisy.

Keep you abject hatred of religion out of this, JGPH1A. It's getting ridiculous that we have to hear your laothing of religion in almost everything you put on here. I'm tired of it, and it has no relevance here, so on that point, STFU, will you? It's not an issue here.
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Superfly
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:41 am

Did anyone catch this?
Duncanville City Manager Kent Cagle this week pledged to continue enforcing the new law.

I wonder if Mr. Cagle will flex his muscle in pushing this law.



Look those two bold words up.  Wink


'I came to Duncanville to have a family. I didn't come here to live next to a sex club.

Perhaps they should check out the party once they've put they're kids to bed.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
If my neighbor had parties like this I would be on my roof with binoculars.

I'd join the party.  Smile


These NIMBYs are full of it. All it is a social gathering at someone's private home. If this was some sort of religious charade, these conservative Bible-thumpers wouldn't care.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
I've been to Duncanville. It is a south-western suburb of Dallas, Texas, where it is easier to buy a semi-auto clone of an AK-47 than a bottle of beer (It is a dry county, to buy or drink beer, you'll have to become a member odf a private club, and the owners charge an arm and a leg for admission). There are churches about everywhere.

Duncanville sounds like hell!  scared 
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:38 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Keep you abject hatred of religion out of this, JGPH1A. It's getting ridiculous that we have to hear your laothing of religion in almost everything you put on here. I'm tired of it, and it has no relevance here, so on that point, STFU, will you? It's not an issue here.

It is entirely and completely the issue here. If this was not such a "religious" town, they wouldn't have closed this guy down. They'd have told him to limit the parking and keep the noise down, which would have been entirely reasonable.
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:49 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):

Keep you abject hatred of religion out of this, JGPH1A. It's getting ridiculous that we have to hear your laothing of religion in almost everything you put on here. I'm tired of it, and it has no relevance here, so on that point, STFU, will you? It's not an issue here.

This is all about religion crossing into both the public and private spheres. Neither JGPH1A nor I like religion, but neither one of us begrudges people their right to practice their religion privately. These people are using their religious beliefs to try and take away other's rights to have a sex party and do what they want with their bodies.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
But this guy is putting his neighbors into it with the unacceptable amound of traffic and loud noise coming from the house.

I cannot believe you are naive enough to think that is the reason they are persecuting their neighbor. They are upset that other people don't hold their same viewpoint when it comes to sex and are trying to legislate what other people do with their bodies, and nothing else.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
But if I'm next door, and the traffic makes it impossible for me to leave my house, and the noise is invading on MY privacy, then it is MY BUSINESS.

I doubt the traffic is making it impossible for them to leave their house and if there is an issue with noise, then they should be acting under noise ordinances and private nuisance laws, not some idiotic legislation about live sex shows.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
If it's a disruption to a quiet neighborhood, it should be zoned.

You don't zone how people have sex in a private home.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):

If you think your neighbor has too many friends who park all over, move.

B-I-N-G-O. These are public streets and I don't assume they have restrictions on parking. If the neighbors care so much about parking, then they should get the municipality to pass an ordinance restricting street parking to residents and allowing only a limited number of guest passes.
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Falcon84
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:21 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
All it is a social gathering at someone's private home.

Bull, ;Fly. When a "social gathering" blocks an entire street, and the sound intrudes on others' privacy and their homes, then it's beyond a social gathering, and neighbor's have every right to ask that some controls be put on what's happening-whatever it is. Again, Superfly, it seems that you're more concerned about the right of thus guy to make a racket and not the rights of those who have to put up with it. I'm all for the city cracking down on this.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 17):
It is entirely and completely the issue here. If this was not such a "religious" town, they wouldn't have closed this guy down.

Horse Shit. It has nothing to do with religion, despite your obsession. It has to do with this guy not giving a shit about those who live around him, and impeeding on their lives in that neighborhood. To me, it's not even about what's going on inside. It's about the ridiculous number of vehicles that clog the street, and the amount of noise coming from the house. If that's making lives for his neighbors miserable, then he's the one in the wrong, not the nieghbors.

Get the heck off your penchant to blame everything on religion. It makes you look like an idiot.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Neither JGPH1A nor I like religion

That's putting it mildly, to say the least. "Hatred" jumps to mind.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
These people are using their religious beliefs to try and take away other's rights to have a sex party and do what they want with their bodies

And the fact this man is making their lives miserable when he throws theese "party's" means nothing? Again, if he wants such a large group, he needs to find an area where it's not going to disrupt an entire neighborhood. The burden is not on the neighbors, who are just trying to live their lives, but on this person, who is knowningly making the neighborhood a circus each time he has one of these parties.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):

If you think your neighbor has too many friends who park all over, move.

B-I-N-G-O.

What a crock of shit! So, this person messes up YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, but THEY should have to move? I don't think so.  rotfl . The needs of the many, in this instance, outweight the need of the one. If any moving should be done, it's the one, not the many. HE needs to move, to an area where 1. there's plenty of parking, and 2. where he's not causing chaos in a residential neighborhood.
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:32 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
So, this person messes up YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, but THEY should have to move?

How are they messing up the neighborhood? Taking parking away? Zone the parking as permit only then.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):

That's putting it mildly, to say the least. "Hatred" jumps to mind.

I don't hate anything. Hatred generally comes from some corrupted version of a moral compass. Just like when people use their religious leanings to judge and try to legislate the lives of other people.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):

And the fact this man is making their lives miserable when he throws theese "party's" means nothing?

Why is he making them miserable? Because of the parking issue? Like I said, change the parking laws then. Because of the noise? Call the cops if the dB is at nuisance level. If they are miserable because people are having an orgy at the house, they need to keep it to themselves.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
2. where he's not causing chaos in a residential neighborhood.

What chaos? Sex is now equal to chaos?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
1. there's plenty of parking

Sounds like there is plenty of parking. If the neighbors are having trouble parking, then they are well within their rights to lobby the city council to create permit parking.
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:37 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Get the heck off your penchant to blame everything on religion.

Did you actually read the CNN article posted by the OP ? I'm not making this up.
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:44 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):

Did you actually read the CNN article posted by the OP ? I'm not making this up.

He is the OP.  Wink

Anyway, looks like Cherry Pit has a legal defense fund on their website for all those interested in donating. They also noted that they have already spoken to the people who run Duncanville and have been told that their guests are not going to face harassment.
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ltbewr
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:37 pm

Most Texas cities and municipalities have very weak zoning laws and regulation so it isn't uncommon for businesses and residences to be close to each other. There are also State and Federal laws that highly protect and largely exempt religious institutions from substantial zoning and related laws (including off-street parking). If this was an established religious organization, then there would be probably little the local government could do, except perhaps under occupancy capacity and health laws. Here you had a non-religious, regular activity that was a nuisance to the neighborhood as to parking, traffic, noise from it's activities. The same issues could be involved even if it didn't involve 'orgies'.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:12 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
What a crock of shit! So, this person messes up YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, but THEY should have to move? I don't think so. rotfl . The needs of the many, in this instance, outweight the need of the one. If any moving should be done, it's the one, not the many. HE needs to move, to an area where 1. there's plenty of parking, and 2. where he's not causing chaos in a residential neighborhood.

So if you have a neighbor with an active social life they should have to move? That makes about as much sense as wiping before you poop. You are the one being bothered by it- move yourself.

I can promise you this guy has a couple neighbors who don't give a shit. He may even have a few neighbors who go to the parties.

Your neighbors have as much right to be there as you do. If you don't like what they are doing you have two options. 1. move. 2. stop crying and live with it.

I live next to annoying redneck lesbians who have 2 speech settings.. sleep and yell. I work nights, they appear to be unemployed because they manage to scream at each other and their kids all day. I like my house, I like my location. I grin and bear it.. I didn't even press the matter when they cut off my cable TV, internet and phone because they were trying to steal cable because I have to live next to these assholes. This is called playing well with others. I do not expect them to sell their house and move any more than they expect us to do the same. I would LIKE them to sell their house and move but I know that won't happen. No one person's claim to living somewhere is stronger than another.

If people don't like the parking situation, get the homeowners association or city council to make the street a no parking or 2 hour parking area.. Then turn the parking Nazis loose. I have used parking tickets (They call me "Lot Fuhrer" at work) to get people I wanted to go away to leave more than a few times- A $100 fine or even a written warning does wonders for changing someone's overnight plans.
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JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
He is the OP.

My bad  blush 
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Falcon84
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:16 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
2. where he's not causing chaos in a residential neighborhood.


What chaos? Sex is now equal to chaos?

Cars blocking the street; loud noise-I'm assuming it's music-coming from the premises. Stop patronizing people, dude. Sex is not chaos, but to deliberately make life miserable for those around you is.

This guy should move, not all his neighbors. Again, the problem is your "everything goes" attitude. You give all the grief to his neighbors, for acting on their right to complain when there are problems, but give this guy a free pass, simply because it has to do with sex. Unbelievable.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 24):
So if you have a neighbor with an active social life they should have to move?

If it disrupts the life of his neighbors, and he knows it's doing so, yet will not cease and desist WHATEVER activity it is that is distrupting the neighborhood? Yes. Or, as has been mentioned, it should be strictly zoned so that life in the neighborhood isn't so disrupted. If the the guy will not compromise, and see that his parties are causing his neighbors problems, then yes he should. Again, to me, it isn't what's going on inside the house, as much as it is the traffic and the noise. Others of you seem to think it's the sex. I don't think that's the case here.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 24):
Your neighbors have as much right to be there as you do. If you don't like what they are doing you have two options. 1. move. 2. stop crying and live with it.

Wrong. You have the right to stay where you chose to live, and you DON'T have to live with it. If the other person is causing the problem, I have EVERY RIGHT to tell him to stop, or I will take legal action. No one has to live with anything that makes life IN THEIR OWN HOME less than bearable. That's utter crap, and you know it. You wouldn't live with something you didn't like next to you, and you damn well wouldn't just move. You'd fight it if you could. So would I.
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:30 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Sex is not chaos, but to deliberately make life miserable for those around you is.

Who says this is deliberate. The only thing deliberate here is their use of a vice law to try and regulate private, non-business behavior.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Cars blocking the street



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
loud noise-I'm assuming it's music-coming from the premises



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):

This guy should move, not all his neighbors.

Look, if they want to get the parking laws changed or prove in court that he is violating noise ordinances, they can go ahead. If not, they have no right to complain.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
You give all the grief to his neighbors, for acting on their right to complain when there are problems, but give this guy a free pass, simply because it has to do with sex.

They have every right to complain if his guests are using all the parking on the street, though if there are no laws regulating the use of street parking, they are SOL. They have every right to complain that he is being too loud, IF they can show that he is making noise beyond the acceptable decibel level at that time of night. They have NO right to regulate the personal behavior of the people inside that house, which is exactly what they are doing.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Others of you seem to think it's the sex. I don't think that's the case here.

It is blatantly obvious. They are using a law that involves sex. That automatically makes it, at least in part, about sex.
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Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:47 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Sex is not chaos, but to deliberately make life miserable for those around you is.

Who says this is deliberate. The only thing deliberate here is their use of a vice law to try and regulate private, non-business behavior.

 rotfl 

Are you trying to tell me this guys has no freaking clue that all these cars and all the noise is upsetting his neighbors? If he know, and has done nothing to help assuage his neighbors, then yes, it's deliberate. Perhaps he doesn't know all the problems it's causing, but I doubt it.

Again-and you and a few others don't seem to get this point-if private, non-business behavoir starts affecting those outside the house, like too many vehicles on the street, and overtly loud noise, it ceases to be private business, and, if I'm a neighbor, becomes MY business. If he's a swinger, that in and of itself, is not grounds for any action to be taken. If however, that lifestyle spills over, and does become a general distraction to the neighborhood, be it a lot of cars, a lot of noise, or anything else associated with this party, then it is no longer just his business.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Look, if they want to get the parking laws changed or prove in court that he is violating noise ordinances, they can go ahead. If not, they have no right to complain.

 rotfl 

Even if they CAN'T get the law changed, they still have absolutely EVERY right to complain. And, if that happens, and this guy keeps messing up my neighborhood, I guarantee you, in the end, he moves, not me nor my neighbors.
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MDorBust
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:52 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Yes, it is

Why did I expect you to be the first person to defend this.

You'll fail. He's running a sexually oriented business in a neighborhood. There is no privacy issue at all there, it's open for regulation by the city. It happens to be his home, tough. It's also a place of business. Don't run a business out of your home if you expect a privacy claim to stand.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
The only money changing hands are donations to cover the food, drink, cleaning, etc. Apparently, many people don't give any money when they go to the house.

So he takes money to pay for the expenses of the operation? And that isn't a business how?

Let's see we have:
- Money changing hands to cover expenses
- Public advertising
- large and diverse "guest (read customer)" base

And this isn't a business?

Okay, what happens to the amount of money "donated" in excess of the actual operating costs? Is it returned? If not, one could even call that, "profit"

He is going to fall flat on his face with his claim that this is just a small group of friends (100+) who just happen to every Friday night.. at his house.. for sex parties.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Anyway, looks like Cherry Pit has a legal defense fund on their website for all those interested in donating.

It's not a business... but it has a name?

Yeah, that'll hold up real well in court.

Next step for the city is the fire department. Expect a large ladder truck to cruise down the street soon. If parking on the road makes passage of the truck tight (and it will) vehicles will get cited. Enough citations and towing will start. Sanitation department will be along soon too. Parties like this undoubted generate a ton of trash. Sanitation will start charging for extra solid waste disposal. Of course, the police will be along to raid the place once or twice checking IDs. Can't have minors in the house when this happens. TABC will be along. Better hope they don't determine he's "selling" alcohol with those "donations" since I bet he doesn't have a liquor license. Most fun of all, when the local authorities decide that his "donations" constitute charging for sexual activity. Nothing like multiple counts of solicitation of prostitution to make your day. Life is going to be very difficult for the Cherry Pit, then the courts will shut it down.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Who says this is deliberate

Advertising does kind of prove intent. They aren't accidentally all gathering at this persons house for a sex party.


Want to have big sex parties without running afoul of the law, here's how.
1) Get yourself several acres of land
2) Put up a big fence and a gate.
3) Only invite people you know
4) Don't charge for it

Tah-dah!
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

You'll fail. He's running a sexually oriented business in a neighborhood.

It isn't a business

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

- Money changing hands to cover expenses

Donations to the people kind enough to open their homes. Never buy a few steaks for a buddy to throw on the grill? There is no mandatory payment involved.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):
- Public advertising

You can advertise parties at your house and not be conducting business.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

- large and diverse "guest (read customer)" base

Guests.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

Why did I expect you to be the first person to defend this.

And why did I expect you to the be first person to defend yet another attempt to take away personal freedom.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):


Are you trying to tell me this guys has no freaking clue that all these cars and all the noise is upsetting his neighbors

"All the noise" is what I keep hearing from you. If there is noise, they they should prove that the noise is violative of the noise code in a court of law.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):


Again-and you and a few others don't seem to get this point-if private, non-business behavoir starts affecting those outside the house, like too many vehicles on the street, and overtly loud noise, it ceases to be private business, and, if I'm a neighbor, becomes MY business. If he's a swinger, that in and of itself, is not grounds for any action to be taken. If however, that lifestyle spills over, and does become a general distraction to the neighborhood, be it a lot of cars, a lot of noise, or anything else associated with this party, then it is no longer just his business

No it doesn't. You are not getting the point. They are trying to stop these parties using an ordinance about sex, not about noise or parking. That is where they have overstepped the line.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):

It's not a business... but it has a name?

I know people who name their cars. Are those businesses?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):
Expect a large ladder truck to cruise down the street soon. If parking on the road makes passage of the truck tight (and it will) vehicles will get cited. Enough citations and towing will start. Sanitation department will be along soon too. Parties like this undoubted generate a ton of trash. Sanitation will start charging for extra solid waste disposal.

Oh good, harassment and entrapment. Sounds wonderful.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29):
Of course, the police will be along to raid the place once or twice checking IDs.

It is a private residence. I sure as hell hope they have a warrant.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Superfly
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:55 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
and the sound intrudes

Sound?
Where in the article did it say anything about "sound" intruding on these people's rights?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Again, Superfly, it seems

Again?
That was my first post in this thread.  confused 

From the article;
'I came to Duncanville to have a family. I didn't come here to live next to a sex club.

Falcon84, there is your proof what this is all about. They are pissed off that there is "sex" taking place in their neighborhood.


This is an attempt to shut down what sounds like the best little whorehouse in Texas.  Sad
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MDorBust
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:30 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
It isn't a business

You keep saying that... yet can't explain the money changing hands, the public advertisement, the large customer base... and it being named.

Throw this one in front of a judge and I guarantee you this is a business even if he doesn't call it that.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Never buy a few steaks for a buddy to throw on the grill?

There's a difference between BYOB and paying the house for it. A very important difference.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
You can advertise parties at your house and not be conducting business.

When you break it down to individual parts they are all innocent acts. When you put them all together, they are not.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
I know people who name their cars. Are those businesses?

If you were to advertise your car, and accept money for rides in your car, yeah it would be a business. We call them taxis.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Oh good, harassment and entrapment. Sounds wonderful.

It's not harassment to bust someone for violating the law. Please, pretty please with sugar on top.. where is the entrapment?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
It is a private residence. I sure as hell hope they have a warrant.

Why wouldn't there be a warrant?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 32):
Why wouldn't there be a warrant?

Doesn't there need to be "probably cause" to get a warrant ? The guy isn't doing anything illegal in his house.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
MDorBust
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:46 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 33):
The guy isn't doing anything illegal in his house.

I must have missed when Texas legalized brothels.

Care to find that for me?

But that just the obvious answer. How about suspicion of sexual conduct with a minor, exposing minors to improper sexual displays, selling alcohol without a liquor license, tax evasion.. etc etc. I can think up probable violations all day long on this one.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
JGPH1A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:59 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 34):
I must have missed when Texas legalized brothels.

Care to find that for me?

Brothels implies payment for sex. In this case, nobody is paying for sex. They might be chipping in for the bean-dip, but that's all.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 34):
How about suspicion of sexual conduct with a minor, exposing minors to improper sexual displays, selling alcohol without a liquor license, tax evasion.. etc etc. I can think up probable violations all day long on this one.

What minors ? There are no minors involved. Just because you hard-wired brain suspects "deviant" behaviour because the guy doesn't have a crew-cut and a gun, doesn't mean a crime is actually being committed. Thank God you're a bodyguard and not a cop, you'd get done for illegal search and seizure every day.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:14 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 33):
Doesn't there need to be "probably cause" to get a warrant ? The guy isn't doing anything illegal in his house.

Loud noise.....cars everywhere......neighbors complaining. Seems like "probable cause" to me.  Yeah sure
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MDorBust
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:15 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 35):
Brothels implies payment for sex. In this case, nobody is paying for sex. They might be chipping in for the bean-dip, but that's all.

I'm sure you would feel very confident explaining to a jury that when you went to the house in question and gave payment to the owner that you had no expectations of a sexual encounter because of that... despite knowingly attending (and paying) a sex party. Seems pretty cut and dry that the intention was for a sexual encounter.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 35):
What minors ? There are no minors involved.

Really? Can you prove that?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 35):
Thank God you're a bodyguard and not a cop.

It's fun when ignorant people shoot their mouths off..

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 35):
you'd get done for illegal search and seizure every day.

An illegal search with a warrant? Really?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
CaptOveur
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 36):
Loud noise.....cars everywhere......neighbors complaining. Seems like "probable cause" to me.

For what? A parking ticket?
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:26 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This isn't an invasion of privacy, or forcing morals on anyone. It's just common sense.

It is definately invasion of privacy.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
Clearly they need to deal with the noise issue thing, but enforcing noise ordinances can be tricky at best given the way most of them are worded.

Exactly. If they are being loud (think college party), then cite them for whatever ordinance this falls under.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Zone the parking as permit only then.

Exactly. Many cities restrict street parking to residents only. Problem solved.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 23):
If this was an established religious organization,

Welcome to the Church of the Phallus

 rotfl 
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
surfpunk
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:17 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Every right. Especially if other people in the neighborhood are complaining. If I'm in that neighborhood, I have EVERY right to complain, and ask for a cease and desist. You're all worried about this guy's rights, but don't seem to give two shits about the rights of those in the neighborhood who have to put up with this crap every week. What about them? Or do they have less rights than this guy?

In a civilized society, your rights end where the next fellow's begin.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
I doubt the traffic is making it impossible for them to leave their house and if there is an issue with noise, then they should be acting under noise ordinances and private nuisance laws, not some idiotic legislation about live sex shows.

I do agree, though, that they should prosecute under noise/nuisance ordinances (although an interesting argument will be made, by the prosecution and the defense, about the "business" aspect of "The Cherry Pit").
 
Falcon84
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:28 am



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 39):
It is definately invasion of privacy.

Again, like a half dozen before you, you are dead wrong. His right to privacy ended when the cars filled the streets, making it almost impossible for the people living there to get out; his right to privacy ended when the noise coming out of his house-whatever it was-became a nuisance to the rest of the neighborhood.

Again, if some nosey neighbor was just peeking in on a friendly get-together, even if it involved sex, and there was no noise, and no traffic, then this man's privacy was being infringed. But when it affects others beyond the boundaries of his property, as far as I'm concerened, he has no claim to "privacy".

And on a side not, if Superfly wants to call those in the neighborhood "prudes", for standing up to this, then I'd be proud to be called a prude. I don't want a brothel next door to me, official or otherwise. If those on here without much in the way of morals themselves think I'm being a moralist in this case, then I'm gladly guilty as charged. As a father of three kids, I don't want them exposed to this kind or circus, especially my youngest one. My teenagers could handle this. I really don't give a flying frack that some of you are offended by such "morals". I'm glad I have them. If you don't like that, it's your problem, not mine.  Smile
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MUWarriors
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:03 am

If traffic and noise are the issues, then change the parking regulations. I live in an area where it's 2 hour parking during the day, and if you are parked past midnight you need a permit. To get said permits you need to prove that you live at that address. It wouldn't be hard to do. If it's noise... well use noise complaints, but I think this is clearly about what is happening inside the house, not actually the parking stuff, because that issue can be relatively easily handled without having to worry about the sex aspect of things.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 32):
You keep saying that... yet can't explain the money changing hands, the public advertisement, the large customer base... and it being named.

Throw this one in front of a judge and I guarantee you this is a business even if he doesn't call it that.

So my college apartment was a bar? We named the place "Le Chateau," among our group of friends it was always referred to as such. About 10 feet from the front door, right next to the bar, we had a locked box with "Donations" written on the side. We never specifically asked for money but hoped people would throw some in and at the end of each night we would open the box, see how much was in there... we would then use that money to order a pizza. Sometimes we came out ahead (more money than spent on booze) sometimes not. So I ask was that a business? Because it seems awful similar to what this guy is doing, only without the random orgies (that I am aware of... i may need to get ahold of my old roommate know that I think about it.  Wink ). Oh, and we did get busted for noise (1 citation, 4 warnings), but never once did the police so much as mention mention that we were selling alcohol without a license. One of the officers even laughed and said "nice setup here." Man sometimes I miss college  Smile.
 
Superfly
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:36 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
making it almost impossible for the people living there to get out

 redflag 
Not true.
Nowhere in the article did it say that driveways were blocked.
Besides, most people in this neighborhood aren't going anywhere anyway. They are too busy poking there nose in Mr. Trulock's business.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
And on a side not, if Superfly wants to call those in the neighborhood "prudes", for standing up to this, then I'd be proud to be called a prude. I don't want a brothel next door to me, official or otherwise. If those on here without much in the way of morals themselves think I'm being a moralist in this case, then I'm gladly guilty as charged. As a father of three kids, I don't want them exposed to this kind or circus, especially my youngest one. My teenagers could handle this. I really don't give a flying frack that some of you are offended by such "morals". I'm glad I have them. If you don't like that, it's your problem, not mine.

Relax Falcon84.
Notice I never used the over-used, under-defined term "morals". These uptight prudes are not 'moral' beings either. I see them as pest, annoyances, complainers, whinners. You catch my drift?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
If those on here without much in the way of morals themselves think I'm being a moralist in this case, then I'm gladly guilty as charged.

Nah, I don't think you're a "moralist". I just think you need to learn how play a game of twister.  rotfl 
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N1120A
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:25 pm



Quoting Surfpunk (Reply 40):
that they should prosecute under noise/nuisance ordinances

And if they can't prove that the noise reached the threshold, they need to leave it alone.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):

Again, like a half dozen before you, you are dead wrong. His right to privacy ended when the cars filled the streets, making it almost impossible for the people living there to get out; his right to privacy ended when the noise coming out of his house-whatever it was-became a nuisance to the rest of the neighborhood.

His right to privacy in his own home exists despite people being rude drivers (if they were at all).
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KaiGywer
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RE: "Naked Twister" Spurs City Into Action

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:16 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
filled the streets, making it almost impossible for the people living there to get out



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 41):
the noise coming out of his house-whatever it was-became a nuisance to the rest of the neighborhood.

And those two issues are what they should be fighting then. Let me repeat my post from earlier for you:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 39):
Exactly. If they are being loud (think college party), then cite them for whatever ordinance this falls under.



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 39):
Exactly. Many cities restrict street parking to residents only. Problem solved.

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