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sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:28 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 49):
You aren't very up to date on post 9/11 flying are you?

For the Love of God,,, not everything is related to 9/11. O.K ?

This is America, and here we are supposed to be judged on the content of our character, not sexual orientation or race or religion or what we looked like. If that gay couple was split up and treated uncivilly because the FA didn't like gays it was wrong.
I'm not gay, but I find discrimination against those who are different or in the minority heinous. I don't want to live in a mean-spirited, closed minded intolerant society.

Did you read the article? He wasn't 4 S'ed as a security risk, they detained in the middle of the terminal ( which is humiliating ), and wouldn't even let him use the mensroom, and he was threatened he would soon be arrested.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:36 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 52):
Quad S?

Just clued in. I have my moments. Big grin My bad.

How does getting SSSS for a secondary search equate to homophobia (or any other type of discrimination) or being subject to it?
You can't cure stupid
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 52):
Your carrying a Tinkerbell mug somehow equates to hatred and discrimination?

No, it's a device to show that rediculous things are the standard in aviation these days and it's not bigotry or homophobia by default.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 52):
Quad S?

SSSS

Quoting AT (Reply 53):
what about the neighboring passengers?

The accounts of the other passengers are oddly enough, missing from the article.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 54):
For the Love of God,,, not everything is related to 9/11. O.K ?

Modern aviation security measures are. And that includes having the police called on passengers having a bad day.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 54):
If that gay couple was split up and treated uncivilly because the FA didn't like gays it was wrong.

Exempting the obviously biased account of the person who feels he was wronged, there is nothing (as others have already pointed out) to corroborate this tale.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 54):
they detained in the middle of the terminal ( which is humiliating)

Humiliating and standard are not mutually exclusive.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 54):
wouldn't even let him use the mensroom

Well, no fraking duh they wouldn't let a suspect in custody go strolling down to a public restroom. That he even voiced this as a complaint is indicative of why I don't believe his story. That you gobbled it up is also telling.

And you wonder why I called you a Jr. Perry Mason.

[Edited 2007-12-17 11:38:13]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
KLMA330
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:38 pm

Question for y'all??

Why on Earth did the couple agree to separate seats to accommodate some family travelling together?
I wouls have NEVER let my boyfriend sit alone when he's flying sick, so that some family I don't know can sit together.
The thought that they would even ask me, let alone expect me to move for them, irritates me to no end...
Had they asked me to move so that they can sit together, I'd said "No, Thank you".
End of story. wouldn't had acknowledged another word that F/A had to say to me.


Am I alone in this? I was once on a flight recently, in the window seat, which I had pre booked on line, specifically cause that was the seat I wanted. So what that some lady with her young son happened to sit next to me, and she's like " can my boy sit by the window?"... while asking, they were actually prepared to make the switch. I looked at her, and politely said 'No" and then just looked out the window for the rest of the flight. If her son wanted a window seat, then she should have been pro active and booked it in advance, like I did.
 
mauiman31
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Unfortunate and disturbing account. FA's, all crew, and airline personnel hold a great deal of power under our current travel climate. All FF have probably experienced rude, or at worst, inappropriate behavior from a FA on a variety of airlines. The traveler in question was smart to be non-confrontational during and after the flight. Am sure, as with any profession, there can be abuse of that power and control. Ironically, SW like many major US carriers markets specifically to Gay and Lesbian travelers. SW has a devoted page on their website to this market.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:02 pm

Sounds awful, but don't forget that at this stage the story merely represents allegations rather than proven facts. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to this than we know, but then the point is that as we weren't there we don't actually know what precisely went on.

[Edited 2007-12-17 12:26:17]
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abrelosojos
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:14 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 49):
Your "Whoa is me" tactic won't work on me, I'm the champion of the quad S.

= Please explain the link between SSSS and your comments. I am confused.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
bennett123
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:14 pm

It would be interesting to hear what the other passengers have to say.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:23 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 60):
= Please explain the link between SSSS and your comments. I am confused.

Cheers,
A.

Well, when someone makes a "what if you..." statement to a person who has several times met the "what if you..." statment, pointing that out is the natural thing to do. Ergo, stories about percieved harassment by officials fall on deaf ears to people that have become familiar with the routine of being "harassed".

Nothing is more spectacular than explaining why there is explosives residue on the case containing a declared rifle, and yes of course the four of us are traveling together because we work for the same company and are going to the same class, and no it's not unusual to find residue on all four of our luggage since we each have a declared firearm, and yes we bought the tickets last minute because we just had time free up for training, and no we don't think it's unusual at all .. and will you please re-book us on another flight since the one we showed up for two hours early left thirty minutes ago. Yes, real story. I guess I should have claimed I was gay so it would be in the news.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
access-air
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:25 pm

All I have to say is that the Crusty Old Hag needs to be flying a broom instead of on a 737!!!!!!!!
SImpley disgusting behaviour on her part....
I guess the game plan is that ANY F/A can use "being threatened and 9/11" as their excuse royally f**k someone up...
Crying wolf will get you no place!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apparently F/As love to cry wolf....How many times will this stuff happen?
If you are an F/A and you are this uptight, quit your job and take up producing diamonds!!!! If you get what I mean....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:47 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 62):
Well, when someone makes a "what if you..." statement to a person who has several times met the "what if you..." statment, pointing that out is the natural thing to do. Ergo, stories about percieved harassment by officials fall on deaf ears to people that have become familiar with the routine of being "harassed".

Nothing is more spectacular than explaining why there is explosives residue on the case containing a declared rifle, and yes of course the four of us are traveling together because we work for the same company and are going to the same class, and no it's not unusual to find residue on all four of our luggage since we each have a declared firearm, and yes we bought the tickets last minute because we just had time free up for training, and no we don't think it's unusual at all .. and will you please re-book us on another flight since the one we showed up for two hours early left thirty minutes ago. Yes, real story. I guess I should have claimed I was gay so it would be in the news.

= Thanks, I get the context of what you are saying. But in my mind this is an apples and oranges comparison ... not saying you are demeaning those gays who have suffered.

Terrorism occured due to explosive devices. It is natural to explain when there is gun residue. As far as I remember, 9/11 or any other attacks did not happen using or for gay rights.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 64):
Terrorism occured due to explosive devices. It is natural to explain when there is gun residue.

Okay seriously, declared rifles. As in the TSA had already inspected them. Of course there's residue, there's rifles.. that have already been checked. Testing rifle cases for residue, then being surprised when it is found is kind of like being surprised that water is wet. But that's aviation security in the US these days.

As before, it's simply another device to demonstrate what all experienced travelers in the US already know... Aviation security has gone insane since 9/11. In any other environment customers would be expected express their displeasure in the face of poor service. Some times with quite a level of passion and ardor. In an airport or on an airplane, that same behavior gets you a visit from the boys in blue.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
As far as I remember, 9/11 or any other attacks did not happen using or for gay rights.

If the police really detained this guy because he was gay then this has turned into a very over-reaching Zeitgeist style conspiracy theory involving homophobes at all levels.

Ochams razor this thing. Here's what you end up with. A guy who is pissed off because he's having a crappy flight. Probably shoots some sharp words to the FA because he feels slighted. FA reports it up the chain because in post 9/11 aviation anything slightly offending is checked out. Guy gets an interview by the popos to make sure he's not a wacko. Not realizing that being a jerk to a FA can get you tossed by the popos, he comes up with the next best answer... it's because he's gay. Plausible

Or.. He really did magically hear the FA in the amazingly fantastic acoustic environment of a 737 behind the engines, "garbage" really did refer to his lifestyle, and not the garbage on his tray... his partner got moved specifically because he was gay and not to seat a group (although getting moved away from the head is always an improvement in my book). The FA wanted to make his obvious illness worse, despite there being no real outwardly visible symptoms of food poisoning.. and the homophobic FA knew some homophobic cops who felt like wasting some time harassing him in conjunction with the homophobic supervisor. Not so plausible.

[Edited 2007-12-17 13:12:38]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:22 pm

Oh my gosh, this is terrible. Half of my customers are gay and they get treated with the kind and courteous service. Why can't a fortune 500 company simply be kind to gay people and respect them instead of avoiding them. This is wrong and if I were them, I would sue. If they do, let them win please. It will teach WN not to mess and/or treat gay people bad.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
BooDog
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:28 pm



Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 45):
In order for an article to be believable, truthful, and fair it has to be written in a forum that is just that, particularly fair. First, this publication is not in the mainstream, so it's not what most people access to get their information. That is the reason why, right or wrong, this will not get much attention from mainstream media. Second, a person who is harassed (as this person claims he was) cannot be the same person who writes a "fair and objective" article about the incident. It's simply not possible and it's simply not good journalism.



Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 45):
Therefore, this article has no weight, will not go anywhere, and will quickly die in the archives of this publication. It doesn't mean that the incident didn't happen, that the F/A was right, or that the person's rights weren't violated. It just means that this article has little journalistic value.

You are 100% correct.

At the time of this post, no news agency (AP, Reuters, etc.) has published this story, and no mainstream news outlet is reporting on this story.
B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
 
tsaord
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:37 pm

I thought people in aviation were used to homosexuals male and female. For years aviation is the homo mecca as far as jobs go for the more conservative homo to the more flamboyant(I see many of those at ORD hahahaha).

I hope this makes more news. WN is a great Airline but it also needs its fair share of trouble. Front line employees make their companies look bad when doing things like this. The only way Airlines will really take a look at it is when they start to get negative press!

But there are 3 sides to every story. His side, the F/A side, and the real truth.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
vulindlela744
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:53 pm

This is absolutely disgusting treatment by the F/A. Can barely believe their are people out there in this day and age. I am a flight attendant for a major airline and I treat all customers the same. Funny thing is hasn't this woman realized yet that the majority of her male co workers are gay. I would say that 90 % of all male f/a's are gay. This woman has got to go. She should not be in the position she is in. And if she is reading this, I have one thing to say to you. You are a COMPLETE DISGRACE to this industry and you should be fired immediately. Period!!!!!!!
 
davidlc3
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:59 pm



Quoting BooDog (Reply 67):
At the time of this post, no news agency (AP, Reuters, etc.) has published this story, and no mainstream news outlet is reporting on this story.

Very very standard practice. Pick up a gay newspaper (Dallas Voice, Washington Blade, etc.) and you'll be shocked by how many MAJOR, high profile news stories occur every day that do not get picked up in the main stream press.
 
access-air
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:07 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
Why do I get the feeling this guy was being sulky with the FA because they got seat split and got the obligatory screaming kid, then went into self righteous bitch overdrive on her at some point? Because we've never seen that happen, right?

Remind me to go postal on the next FA who asks, "garbage"..

How is one supposed to act if they are ill on an airplane????...I doubt that this gentleman was being sulky or that he went off on the FA...It sounds more like the FA has a problem.....And yes, you can hear FAs talking in the back of the plane..Its not that loud back there especially during cruise flight....

When Southwest has been rightfully removing passengers for wearing inappropriate attire and then being forced to apologise thats Wrong!!! However, this latest stunt deserves more than just an apology!!
Normally I dont go for frivillous claims against airlines like "Miss I want to wear a skirt so high anyone can see my nasty snatch" that GOT her apology......But since this is about Gays it is apparently okay!!!!!
The FA was clearly wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!!! I am so sick of seeing FAs getting away with using this "perceived threat" BS, just because they dont want to do their jobs. Its a blatent abuse of their authority!!!!..

Perhaps this FA would like to take a job being secretary for the President of Iran...because according to him, there are no Gay people in Iran!!!!!!!!! I wonder how this FA deals with all the other Gay Male FA that wrork for Southwest?

Simply horrible.....

Access-Air
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cytz_pilot
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:10 pm



Quoting Tsaord (Reply 68):
But there are 3 sides to every story. His side, the F/A side, and the real truth.

ha ha ha that's a great line!

I will side with those who say there is not enough objective information from the others involved in this story to be taken as gospel. I know that there is a lot of personal prejudice out there and I have no doubt that the writer has had to deal with it many times but exaggerating an experience when you feel victimized is not uncommon - so until we hear both sides, a fair and unbiased judgement on the experience is just not possible.
 
kstatepilot
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:11 pm

I am going to bite...
Why are we even discussing this???? There is no evidence that any of this happened to the person. I can say anything about my last flight, post it somewhere and all of a sudden it is gospel??

Seriously everyone needs to stop saying

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 12):
The FA is obviously a bitter, judgemental hag.

until we find out the real story.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:18 pm



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 66):
Half of my customers are gay and they get treated with the kind and courteous service.

You deliver pizzas. What makes you think 50% of the people you deliver to are gay?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
MCO2BRS
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Hey Guys,

Something nobody here has pointed out, yet... where was the captain in all of this?

To quote the article:

"A police officer in uniform stopped me and said that he was going to arrest me for making threats to the cabin crew," Brown says. "The stewardess & reported she did not feel safe around me."

Surely, if a flight attendant is being threatened, intimidated, and/or verbally abused, protocol is to inform the captain? If his behaviour was so threatening, why did they not divert, and have him escorted off the aircraft? There are a number of instances where belligerent pax have caused a flight to divert and be off loaded by the authorities!

I know first hand about being verbally abused, and assaulted because of sexuality. It's ok saying that it's an overreaction by the 'victim' and that people wouldn't do/say such things. I used to think that most of these cases were exaggerations, but then it happened to me, and now I know exactly how it feels to be that person.

I side with the majority here, these were inappropriate actions on behalf of the flight attendant, and the supervisor in Spokane.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:26 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
..went into self righteous bitch overdrive on her..

I'm just curious, would you use the phrase "self righteous bitch overdrive" if you were describing the behavior of someone who is straight?
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
474218
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Usually you can tell if someone is telling the truth by looking at the details. In the article Brown say twice the FA offered everyone in his row something to drink, but ignored him. However, later the FA looks at him and says "garbage" then puts out her hand to take is drink can. If in fact he was ignored twice when drinks were offered how did the get a can to give to her? If one can not keep the story straight I tend to believe its is not true.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:32 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 76):
I'm just curious, would you use the phrase "self righteous bitch overdrive" if you were describing the behavior of someone who is straight?

Yes. I think I referred to my mother in law with those same words last weekend.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 77):
If in fact he was ignored twice when drinks were offered how did the get a can to give to her?

In a portion of the article he directly asked the FA for a drink at one point.

I believe what he said at that point is the crux of events to follow.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 78):
Yes. I think I referred to my mother in law with those same words last weekend.

Something you and I have in common. Big grin  rotfl 
You can't cure stupid
 
eastern747
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:38 pm

I have a comment or two. (1) she is a flight attendant or works with and deals with more gay people than most other people (2) I know it's a standing joke about the "trash thing". Most are clueless and it goes over their head. On most flights I've been on there is more than one cabin crew member, who could accomodate his request. And from I have observed SW F/S usually work well together. This is one side of the story. I seem to smell a rat here. These guys remind me of drama queens who need to be noticed...I'd love to hear the F/A's version.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:41 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 78):
Yes. I think I referred to my mother in law with those same words last weekend.

But would you use the phrase "self righteous bitch overdrive" to describe the behavior of a straight male?

Please be honest.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:45 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 82):
But would you use the phrase "self righteous bitch overdrive" to describe the behavior of a straight male?

Please be honest.

See, now you're just trying to go the route of implying that I'm a homophobe. Sorry, not going to work.

Would I say that a straight male was going into self righteous bitch overdrive mode? Sure. Seen it happen plenty of times.

What? You didn't think I though all men were Clint Eastwood, Pale Rider, types did you?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
access-air
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:46 pm



Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 73):
Why are we even discussing this???? There is no evidence that any of this happened to the person. I can say anything about my last flight, post it somewhere and all of a sudden it is gospel??

Yes you say this....but when it was all about the Southwest FA trying to throw the "scantily clad slut" off the plane EVERYONE jumped to the "slut's" defense!!! What about the tasteless obscene t-shirt with the "F-Bomb on it???? Do we rememeber all that and how EVERYONE HERE jumped to her defense????? No one disputed her report of "ill" treatment by the FA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get over it.......Simply because the guy is gay means his objections to ill treatment by a rude FA is considerd to be embellished? I dont find it one bit difficult to believe!!!!!

The slut and the t-shirt were justified.....this new situation WAS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:55 pm



Quoting Sevenair (Reply 26):
We just want to get on with our lives. We don't necessarily want to walk round the streets holding hands, or to have our relationships celebrated. I think what we all want is to be treated as a human, with dignity.

Here here...

I too agree that this treatment was disgusting... Unfortunately there is a much higher rate of homophobia in the US than in Europe because of the more "moderate" religious views and more extreme conservatism... I'm just glad that the majority of A-net members from the US are open minded and liberal!

I myself am gay, and i am proud of it... I wouldn't necesarilly flaunt my sexuality in public.. I don't like it when straight people are getting it on in front of me... But what i will say that is if this had happened in the EU, the cabin crew member and airline would be slapped with such a lawsuit because of EU anti-discrimination laws... These laws even apply in Italy and other catholic countries!

I hope the federal government in Washington will do something to change discrimination laws... of course this won't happen whilst Bush is in office...

But any airline, who has a staff member that are openly homophobic should be severely repremanded... if this was racism they probably would have been thrown in prison.. It shows the injustices around.

Anyway i wonder how she treats her male colleagues, many of whom i'm guessing are gay....
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mbmbos
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:57 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 83):
What? You didn't think I though all men were Clint Eastwood, Pale Rider, types did you?

I suspect that you think that the behavior of a gay man who has a confrontation on an airplane - and this is all you know about the incident - can best be described as "self righteous bitch overdrive".

I also suspect that you would not use that phrase to describe the behavior of a man whose orientation is not known.

When one resorts to mean-spirited stereotypes, it's hard to attribute him/her with any degreee of credibility.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
eastern747
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:09 pm

There was a good point about how she reacts to gay colleagues. If she did this one time, if she did it at all, then more on, it's not worth it. However if she is that adamant, then this temper would show up much more. I'm sure she has flown with enough gay crew members who would observe this behavior and report her. If she is that blatant, then she would have been turned in by now.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:23 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 86):
I suspect that you think that the behavior of a gay man who has a confrontation on an airplane - and this is all you know about the incident - can best be described as "self righteous bitch overdrive".

Well, there is something more we know about the incident. His level of behavior elicited a police response. Not usual for people who truly are "like Ghandi" while on an airplane.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 86):
I also suspect that you would not use that phrase to describe the behavior of a man whose orientation is not known.

Then you are wrong. Sorry.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 86):
When one resorts to mean-spirited stereotypes, it's hard to attribute him/her with any degreee of credibility.

You've never worked in a customer service job have you? If you had, then maybe you would be more able to rationalize what I mean when I say, "self righteous bitch overdrive." It's not a phenomenon of gay men, or gay women, or straight women or straight men or even men.. or women. It's a phenomenon of people who feel they have been wronged and want someone to know about it. If you've never run into it before, consider yourself lucky. If you think it's a creation of my own mind to belittle a gay man who's life is of little concern to me... you need to get out more. Try a wal-mart. Any wal-mart. You'll likely find the phenomenon there two or three times a night.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
wingletsman
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:05 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:28 pm

WN has had a lot of problems of woman and how they dress and now this...
 
mkirch72
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:00 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:34 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
How about he is a "straightaphobe" and turns everything people say into something against gays? (oh wait, gay people are always the victim, they can do no wrong right?).

Well when you have a president who wants to write us out of the constitution, and when you have an increase against gays in general since Bush took office, and you have gays murdered, strung up on fences, beaten, etc, etc, you'll have to excuse us if we here the word "Fag" and it taints our view of the actions of the person who uttered it.

Walk a mile in our shoes buddy and you'd be singing a different tune.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
I've dealt with F/As who've behaved like that without it being directed toward anyone gay.

Except she said the word "Fag".

Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 33):
Silly to seek business then tick off the customers that you are seeking!

Can't always control those who believe in the radical Christian right wing. And if SW tries to take action against her, she can claim they're discriminating against her based on her religion

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
That in no way implies that the FA was homophobic.

Except for the word "Fag".

I think some previous posters hit the nail on the head. Until you've been "bashed", discriminated against, had slurs thrown your way, gotten the dirty looks, etc, etc, you probably won't ever understand where the writer of the article is coming from. I would be GLAD to hear SW's version as well as the FA's. However, those who claim that we are claiming "gays are always the victim" are actually right -- because it's usually true. There are still many states where gays can be fired or evicted from their home just for being gay and have no legal recourse. Suicide is the #1 killer among gay teens.

You'll pardon us if we're a little touchy.
 
GeorgeJetson
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:44 pm



Quoting Kstatepilot (Reply 73):
I am going to bite...
Why are we even discussing this???? There is no evidence that any of this happened to the person. I can say anything about my last flight, post it somewhere and all of a sudden it is gospel??

Seriously everyone needs to stop saying

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 12):
The FA is obviously a bitter, judgemental hag.

until we find out the real story.

I agree 100%. How do we know that any of this is true? There are tons of websites on the Internet where one can say almost anything they want (they call this "freedom of speech") whether true or not (or sometimes partially true). Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is just one example. I recently corrected some information on an article there that was completely wrong. Anybody with an active imagination can easily fabricate a story on the Internet especially when there is no one out there to verify the facts. I have actually known people (who don't have a "life") who have nothing better to do than to complain about just about everything or anything, and they tend to complain about imaginary problems that don't even exist!
Meet George Jetson
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:50 pm

Hah, we're more than a little touchy, and honestly it gets old.

I have lived in some of the most conservative parts of this country, and encountered real homophobia a handful of times.

I have seen a bunch of incidents involving assholes on one side and bitchy queens on the other ending in tears on all sides, and I might well have reacted the same way to said bitchy queens if it had been me.

It absolutely happens and people do treat gays miserably in a lot of situations. But I also know a few hundred gays that would consider it homophobia whenever their coffee got close to the bottom of their cup in a restaurant or on a plane.

NS
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:20 am



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 13):
Depends on two fronts...WA law (don't know if they have hate crimes legislation or not) and WN policy



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.

The problem is that unless a very narrow slant is given to interperting the Airline Deregulation Act, to the extent that any state law extends to the "services" of an airline, that law is preempted....

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 57):
Why on Earth did the couple agree to separate seats to accommodate some family travelling together?

That's just one of several things in the story that don't seem to pass the "smell test" -- I'm certainly not saying that "nothing happened" or that the FA's actions, if accurately described, were proper, but it seems like a large part of the story is missing.

Heck, if I'm travelling with a coworker and I've made sure we have seats together so that we can discuss upcomming business -- or just avoid chatting with complete strangers, as the case may be -- I'm not going to move. If I were traveling with a girlfriend (like that'll ever happen) I'm similarly not going to move, what's the difference in this case? (Then again one of the reasons I don't fly WN is because I want an assigned seat _before_ I get onboard)

Typically, for example, if you're in a situation with 100+ customers and 3 employees -- be in on an aircraft, in a conference room, in a store, what have you you won't really be noticed, much less remembered unless you do something that really stands out. It seems to me that sitting in a row of seats on an aircraft holding hands, kissing, what have you is not terribly likely to be noticed -- regardless of m/f f/f m/m m/m/f f/f/m, etc, etc. -- unless you're making loud noises or whacking the seat in front of/behind you.

I've noticed various discreet makeout sessions on board walking to/from lavs and no one has batted an eye.

The other thing that doesn't sit right with me is that whole thing about "Garbage" -- I've been on flights where the FA addressed the row I was in with "Garbage" with a lack of inflection while collecting rubbish -- but I certainly didn't take it as an insult

Lincoln
(Please don't take this as minimizing the wrongdoing of the FA... I just hate to see a rush to judgement and angry mob without all of the facts)
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Skyweasy82
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:04 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:33 am

If no one has ever noticed there many gay flight attenadants out there, including Southwest! This F/A has deffinantly worked with one. This guy is tryin to make a buck of something I don't belieive! F-word s
 
N68TLCaptain
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:38 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:50 am



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 12):
So much for WN's Customer service commitment

The mission of Southwest Airlines is dedication to the highest quality of Customer Service delivered with a sense of warmth, friendliness, individual pride, and Company Spirit.

Dude give them a break, just because one FA did something stupid doesn't mean they all will.
Me and my dad both fly for WN and it's a great company.
I don't know of a single airline that doesn't have problems like this.
I will indeed sir, fly for food.
 
luvfa
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:05 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:00 am

Well we don't know the whole truth yet, only versions of it. Our customer relations will follow up on this guys complaint and compare it to the FA's report and take the appropriate action warranted. At this point all the facts are not in and drawing any conclusions are pre-mature.

For all you out there that feel WN condones discrimination in any shape, that is simply not true. All employees go through Herb's famous anti-discrimination speech and in fact sign their names that we understand our policy. Unfortunately this policy is only as good as the actions of our front-line employees involved and if there is any wrong doing on the employees part it will be handled.

As a WN FA, I can give my experience, (although as much like everyone else this is only speculation so take it with a grain of salt). As far as saying he was ignored during drink service: If he was asleep, (even if he nodded off the second she came to his row), she would have moved on and come back to him later, (especially on a 4 hour flight). Iv'e had people accuse me of that same thing when they were dead asleep when I came by, but of couse they have no recollection of that!
I know I have been in the situation where a family boards at the last minute and we struggle to find seats together. The first thing we do is make a PA and ask people to help, (and bribe them with free drinks). If that doesn't work, I may see where the seats are, If I have a middle sea topen in the last row I may ask the prole inthe window/aisle if they are travelling together. If yes I go on if, If no and there is another seat further up with that same window/aisle, I may see if one of them would be interested in moving for a free drink. I would never order someone to move. If we can't remedy the situation I let our Customer Service Sups get involved. I think this FA may have overstepped here a bit, (again if this is true). As far as weather she said "fag" or not, again we can't be sure! It is very loud in the back of a 737.

The calling of police is very fuzzy to me. However, in these high-security days of air travel, all reports are taken seriously initially until determined otherwise. I try to do this as a last resort. I will sekk the advise of my fellow crew members and our pilots before I call for security. Most of us do this but with 7500 FA's there wil tend to be some who are a little over zealous.

I still find it hard to believe this FA is homophobic. With the demographics of our work group, everytime she works with a male FA, chance are 50/50 that FA is gay. However, it is still possible based on the large number of our work group! Hopefully the truth will come out and our company will act appropriately!
 
PSA53
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:02 am



Quoting Skyweasy82 (Reply 96):
If no one has ever noticed there many gay flight attenadants out there, including Southwest!

Very true.Even seen on episodes of "Airline".WN has a very good compliance record,IMO as a straight,I feel this should be treated as a isolated case.The article does not mention WN's record with gays,health benefits and employee relations, and that's a little concerning and might construed as bias in itself.And I heard no other media reporting so maybe there are
political reporting here.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2968
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:03 am



Quoting Tsaord (Reply 68):
But there are 3 sides to every story. His side, the F/A side, and the real truth.

So very true.

This incident will simply turn into a war of words, with the FA denying any hateful comments and the passengers stating that they heard what they think they heard. The truth probably lies someplace in the middle.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
sccutler
Posts: 5840
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:07 am

This far, no corroboration of any kind to reflect that these events even occurred as described. Given the prevalence, and acceptance, of gay men among cabin crew in the industry, absent some credible independent corroboration, I'd suspect the "abuse" by the FA never occurred, at all.

I am, of course, open-minded to the possibility (unlike those who have already tried and convicted the airline and its employees).

Were I subjected to five hours next to a crying lap-child, I am not absolutely sure I'd be able to recall anything- or behave rationally!
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
avek00
Posts: 3250
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:14 am



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.

Since the routing of the flight was FLL-BNA-SEA (according to the article), then WN have something to worry about.

Not really -- this is purely an interstate commerce matter, the federal government has already asserted itself with respect to equal accomodation by common carriers, and the current federal law does not prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Assuming the FA did not file a false police report, there was no crime involved, and any civil suit would promptly get tossed in federal court.
Live life to the fullest.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:22 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 42):
Sorry, not following that logic. If a story of the women asked to leave - or cover up - on a Southwest flight is reported in the mainstream press, then that mainstream press is biased against Southwest?

And if it is published in "Big Boobs" magazine, that magazine is biased against Southwest?

"Big Boobs" is bursting at the seams with fluff specifically aimed at a particular interest for the sole purpose of selling more "Big Boobs." And you claim to be unable to follow my logic?

In the case of the mainstream press and the story of the woman asked to cover up - WN confirmed the story and released the following in connection with it:

"Southwest Airlines was responding to a concern about Ms. Ebbert's revealing attire on the flight that day. As a compromise, we asked her to adjust her clothing to be less revealing. She complied and she traveled as scheduled. When a concern is brought to our employees' attention, we address that situation directly with the customer(s) involved in a discreet and professional matter. Fortunately, as an airline that carries approximately 96 million customers a year, those situations are extremely rare."

A second incident by Setera Qassim was also reported in the mainstream press. Again Southwest was contacted and given the opportunity to comment, and they did. Airline spokesman Chris Mainz said the company had no record that Qassim ever complained. Whether that is actually true or not is irrelevant to the fact that in both cases Southwest was given an opportunity to defend itself. That is an important distinction here, and one that pretty much says it all.

And, as far as I know, "Big Boobs" failed to pick up the story.  Wink

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 51):
= You know. Stories of discrimination are usually carried by progressive publications which flight for an equal world - that may be gay/straight, black/white, immigrant/xenophob. A lot of this may be because they are more sensitive in understanding the discrimination being felt than the other side.

Of course they are more sensitive - that's how they make their bread and butter. But for the person to feel insulted because they heard the word "fags" is ridiculous, especially in this day and age. I'm surprised someone so fragile has survived all this time.

And while some may argue that such "progressive" publications "fight" for an equal world - I disagree. I think they represent just one more agenda no different from any other agenda.

More to the point - quite frankly, I don't think anyone should be allowed to take away anyone's right to make an ass of themselves if they so choose. In the case of the gay passenger, in this day and age, who looks like the ass, the person being called a "fag", or the person using the term? Be honest...
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:23 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 89):
His level of behavior elicited a police response. Not usual for people who truly are "like Ghandi" while on an airplane.

Do you read history ? You're spelling Gandhi's name wrong... and Gandhi WAS wrongly arrested by Police. So yeah, his allusion to having the patience of Gandhi was actually correct.
 
kstatepilot
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:26 am



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 85):

But any airline, who has a staff member that are openly homophobic should be severely repremanded.

Now you are forcing us "homophobic" people to your views????!?!?!?!?!???!!! This isn't right. You homosexuals have almost every right us straight people do, so now you try to force us into doing something we don't want to do. I am okay with gays and lesbians until you start to do this.

You are a "heterophobe"

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