Tis the season!

Let's crack open some champagne, decorate the christmas tree, take our kids to be terrified by santa, and sing Christmas carols written after 1950! We'll have a secular old time!

So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

What's your excuse?

QFF

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition? What's your excuse?

You already named two perfectly usable ones above...! 

It's ultimately an old heathen midwinter / solstice celebration ritual anyway, just with a thin layer of christian varnish on top. It's still a very nice celebration in many ways...

Merry Christmas to everyone that bothers to take the day off, buy crap, or whatever else. And to the people, such as myself, who have to work....Merry Christmas to you too!

  

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): What's your excuse?

Good grief, he's back!!...and firing on all 6 straight outta the blocks! Welcome back you venomous young scrote....been a serious lack of quality insults round here lately  

And in answer to your question....I don't need an excuse to party and if it wasn't for Christmas we would just work like dogs all year round.......even if you don't believe in Jesus....you gotta appreciate the holiday  

and who is Kevin Bloody Rudd anyway.....?????

NWA742 -

I'm about as seriously atheist as they come, and I agree - the words "Merry Christmas" are by no means offensive. I have Jewish friends who wish me happay Hannukah, I'm not about to get upset over it. The only atheists who do get upset are those with some serious insecurities. Just accept it as an expression of good-will, I say.

Jafa -

Another good reason!! A day off work!!!

Oh, and "Kevin bloody Rudd" (as you so obtusely call him) is actually our "Dear Leader", who has descended from above on a flock of cranes to save us. He's doing a mighty fine job, and just between you and me he's made my professional life not only easier but busier!

QFF

Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

   Excellent observation!

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

For the same reason other people decide to celebrate a religious holiday in spite of their own stated anti-religious feelings and feel the need to rationalize/justify their desire to share in the season by either cracking wise or attempting to diminish the faith of the religious.

It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

Merry Christmas!!!

I'm doing my best to keep a select few stores and shops in business for another year, oh, and a free meal helps!!

Hey, it's not our fault we were born into a nation that has traditions based on this particular faith!
I see no issue at all, given to how much this shopping/partying splurge is actually about the Christain part.

But the UK, like Australia I'd image, is Christian by tradition, but really pretty secular in the everyday reality.

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): What's your excuse?

Christmas means days away from work....That should be enough to celebrate whether you are a christian or an atheist...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): For the same reason other people decide to celebrate a religious holiday in spite of their own stated anti-religious feelings and feel the need to rationalize/justify their desire to share in the season by either cracking wise or attempting to diminish the faith of the religious.

Nonsense. What we know as "christmas" today is actually just a somewhat modified version of much, much older "heathen" solstice festivities (even the date is still almost exactly the same).

It is a part of western culture more than of any actual religion. There is absolutely no "rationalization" required for appropriating parts of one's culture, even if one doesn't share some of the more recent embellishments or superstitions.

It's primarily a nice social family event.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

How other people are celebrating christmas in their own homes is none of your business. But you're probably one of those who suddenly gets the overwhelming urge to get a divorce exclusively because in some countries gay people can marry, right?   

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

That is because Christmas IS a religious holiday. As a Catholic we celebrate the birth of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays since I am not Jewish or African American.
Merry Christmas to all!!!!

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7): Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

That and a strong commercial/capitalistic drive. 

Welcome back QFF, you rebelious republican, you.  

May you enjoy a truly Merry Christmas full of the pagan rituals and rites, Yule logs, festive trees, gift giving(& receiving), celebration of the winter/summer solstice(depending on Latitude).   

This so called celebration of a 'Johnny come lately' of a couple of millenia ago is so nuevo trendy.   

WrenchBender

Well I'm a pretty strong athiest, but it's an excuse for a few days off, fill up on mums cooking and free money / girfts from relatives !!

It's a win win situation in my opinion, if I get a day off, I don't care what the occasion is !!
Wrighbrothers

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): Merry Christmas Atheists!

Yeah, I plan to tell that to an atheist member of my family. He knows I love him, regardless of his position, although my wishes may offend still, nonetheless.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12): Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others. How other people are celebrating christmas in their own homes is none of your business. But you're probably one of those who suddenly gets the overwhelming urge to get a divorce exclusively because in some countries gay people can marry, right?

So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business. Excellent - way to tell Ian he's wrong by confirming what he's saying. Better check the contents of your eggnog, Klaus.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17): So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business.

Sure. That was my whole point.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17): Excellent - way to tell Ian he's wrong by confirming what he's saying. Better check the contents of your eggnog, Klaus.

Better check the actual posts above again - he basically claimed that atheists celebrating christmas was

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

But as you apparently agree, whether or how someone else is ceebrating it is actually just their business, not yours, mine or his. If someone feels "trampled on his feelings" by something somebody else is doing in his own home (and not violating any laws), it would indicate a troubling authoritarian mindset.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7): Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

I suppose. All you're left with is the parties, the presents, the days off, the food and the booze. It would be really terrible . . .

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

Funny you should say that, because most years I just get on with celebrating 'Christmas' without giving it too much thought.

But this year, because of the homophobic abuse I've had from a viscous born-again Christian, I've gone back to having a solstice celebration instead. And, I'll keep talking about it until I can forgive it.

So, everybody............whatever you believe and however you want to celebrate it, have a good one!

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition? What's your excuse?

I like your reasoning, and I will add that it is nice to have a season set aside for sharing with your family.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 4): I'm about as seriously atheist as they come, and I agree - the words "Merry Christmas" are by no means offensive.

I am as serious atheist as they come, and I wish people a Merry Christmas

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Braybuddy wins the award for best line of the year. 

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7): Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

Well, you have a point. Without the solstice celebrating pagans, we wouldn't have any of this  

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13): To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13): or African American.

Um, you have apparently missed that the vast majority of African Americans are religious Christians.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 4): Oh, and "Kevin bloody Rudd" (as you so obtusely call him) is actually our "Dear Leader", who has descended from above on a flock of cranes to save us. He's doing a mighty fine job, and just between you and me he's made my professional life not only easier but busier!

I suppose that is Kevin from Heaven you folk are talking about?? Interested to know what Kev has made easier, no a criticism just curiosity!!

You would be amused, Klaus, how we manage to justify just about the same for a summer solstice. Bearing in mind we also now have Christmas in July (or something similar) celebrations as well, it is difficult to know how much of the December spendathon is related to religion, other than the religion of consumption.

The nearest to the Scrooge effect this year seems to be the US Sub-prime. And if we are unlucky, it will be the ghost of Christmas yet to come too.

In the meantime Happy Solstice, be it winter or summer.

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): Merry Christmas Atheists!

Thanks! With God's merciful graces, it should be an excellent one! =)

Oh man - even a heartfelt Merry Christmas can't be offered w/o folks on both sides getting their panties in a wad. For once folks, let it go, accept it in the spirit it was wished, and just go enjoy the days in whatever fashion brings peace and joy to your mind and/or soul.

Merry Christmas to all!

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year?

I'm an atheist but I don't need to justify it, to myself or to anyone.   

I am content that it is a season of goodwill, for whatever reason. I don't live in the US, but Thanksgiving is up there, too.

So - Merry Christmas to all. And a prosperous New Year. -)

mariner

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18): Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17): So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business. Sure. That was my whole point.

I do have to thank you, Klaus, since, after re-reading it, I see more clearly what he was saying, and not just in a different context concerning your response to it. In the end, my point (in part) concerns that as long as you're cool with each person having individual freedom in how they celebrate the holiday, that's good to note, and I've consistently seen that of you (at least in this thread). But I believe Ian is calling out atheists who go beyond what they do in their own homes. For you to make that last crackback on him was a stretch - I don't see him making the kind of remarks you say he might/would, like, admittedly, some others do/have done on this forum.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7): Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

Damn straight, now put my yule tree back out in the yard where it belongs and stop cutting the things down.

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13): As a Catholic we celebrate the birth of our Saviour Jesus Christ. To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays since I am not Jewish or African American.

Wait... what?

[Edited 2007-12-21 11:53:25]

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13): To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays since I am not ... African American

Nicholas V. has arisen from the dead and is reiterating his papal bull [$h|t]...

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/indig-romanus-pontifex.html
http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/20010615d.htm

My excuse: I'm working until 0000 on christmas eve. Then, I get to hop out of bed at 4 the f***ing morning and go back to work for an hour on christmas morning. I better get some presents and a good meal after that eh   


CanadianNorth

And there he goes again! Klausie....I was referring to the specific post by Braybuddy, as well as those who endorsed it, that people seem to ruin Christmas by bringing religion into it....see his quote at the bottom. I think that the more people who celebrate it the merrier....but the ones who want the party but not the medicine could be a little more discrete rather than crapping all over the people who take it seriously.

You sir, see only your end of the perspective continuum, and refuse to acknowledge that people celebrate Christmas...no matter when they celebrate....to commemorate the birth of the person they consider to be their saviour.

Here's how narrow you're being...

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12): Nonsense. What we know as "christmas" today is actually just a somewhat modified version of much, much older "heathen" solstice festivities (even the date is still almost exactly the same).

So...Christ-mass has nothing to do with Christ?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12): It is a part of western culture more than of any actual religion. There is absolutely no "rationalization" required for appropriating parts of one's culture, even if one doesn't share some of the more recent embellishments or superstitions.

It's a part of western culture in that most of western culture is Christian based.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12): It's primarily a nice social family event.

For you....and that's wonderful. I'm very happy that you can have some peace and happiness during this period (since you spend so much of your time being frustrated with the rest of us who aren't as smart or well spoken) but why do you need to put down someone elses ideas to make it feel better for you? Braybuddy was doing it and I responded with what I considered appropriate, and honest, irony.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12): How other people are celebrating christmas in their own homes is none of your business. But you're probably one of those who suddenly gets the overwhelming urge to get a divorce exclusively because in some countries gay people can marry, right?

That's right....so I wonder why you and people like you decide to openly ridicule the religious who choose to celebrate. As far as homosexuals go....I only exiled my brother the homosexual after he turned into a thief and stole from family. I didn't care who he was screwing....his boyfriend was on all the invite lists and included in events without an extra thought. You make judgements about others without cause. I made an observation based on a clearly written statement. You made an observation ignoring the written statements that conflicted with your desired result.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 17): So, how Ian celebrates Christmas - perhaps by making himself feel better - is nobody else's business. Excellent - way to tell Ian he's wrong by confirming what he's saying. Better check the contents of your eggnog, Klaus.

Pretty much what I said.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18): Better check the actual posts above again - he basically claimed that atheists celebrating christmas was Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

Well, only for the ones who feel the need to trample on the feelings of the religious by asking aloud in a sarcastic voice why one should bring religion into a holiday that centers around a theological event.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18): But as you apparently agree, whether or how someone else is ceebrating it is actually just their business, not yours, mine or his. If someone feels "trampled on his feelings" by something somebody else is doing in his own home (and not violating any laws), it would indicate a troubling authoritarian mindset.

There you go....the last resort of scoundrels and liberals it seems is to scream bloody murder and insinuate shadow/fascist/authoritarian impulses and actions that will prevent them from mocking others. I simply exercised the same rights you and Braybuddy (whom I don't know) and rebutted the statement while making an observation of my own.

You hysterical thing, you!!!!

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 20): But this year, because of the homophobic abuse I've had from a viscous born-again Christian, I've gone back to having a solstice celebration instead. And, I'll keep talking about it until I can forgive it.

I'm sorry that one persons unjustifiable crime has impacted your thinking on such a time that should be full of joy and peace. I hope that the season and the friends/family you will spend time with will help you forgive and move on, and realize that those people are in the minority and their actions not tolerated in civilized societies.

Merry Christmas any way you decide to take it.

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

You justify it any way you want. Just think about being nice to others and being positive.....

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): What's your excuse?

I choose to celebrate for a multitude of reasons, not the least being that it is a time for love and peace. It reminds me to see it and seek it out, and promote it more and more. In spite of my baser impulses.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5): Why do people always insist on spoiling Christmas by bringing religion into it?

Because it's the celebration of the birth of Jesus. The saviour to Christians, a prophet of Allah, an important figure to Jews and a man of peace whose messages of peace and love could be well used across the world.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 30): So...Christ-mass has nothing to do with Christ?

We celebrate the birth of Santa don't we?

Welcome back QFF 

Quoting QANTASforever (Thread starter): So, how shall we be justifying it to ourselves this year? Participating in an enjoyable mass cultural exercise? Tradition?

Meh..its just another holiday. At least we're invited to a friend's house this time...will be eating some nice food. Thats about it.

Quoting Agill (Reply 32): We celebrate the birth of Santa don't we?

Santas are not born..they're captured in the wild...haven't you seen the documentary?  

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 33): Santas are not born..they're captured in the wild...haven't you seen the documentary?

The Dark Truth Of Santa... Hilarious! (by Andaman Dec 14 2007 in Non Aviation)

Hilarious   

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 33): Santas are not born..they're captured in the wild...haven't you seen the documentary?

Yes, I have seen the films.

Still, "Father Christmas" sound a bit too fruity (read - British) when compared with "Santa Claus".

QFF

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 7): Because with out religion there would be no Christmas.

Of course there would be ... capitalism/consumerism would create it.

Anyway, Merry XMas and all that crap.
/Milan320

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 26): In the end, my point (in part) concerns that as long as you're cool with each person having individual freedom in how they celebrate the holiday, that's good to note, and I've consistently seen that of you (at least in this thread).

  

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 26): But I believe Ian is calling out atheists who go beyond what they do in their own homes. For you to make that last crackback on him was a stretch - I don't see him making the kind of remarks you say he might/would, like, admittedly, some others do/have done on this forum.

Well, coming into a thread explicitly discussing how atheists perceive and celebrate christmas with this gem...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): It's all about making yourself feel better without caring if you are trampling on the feelings of others.

...is a bit much.

He obviously equates other people's different views of christmas for themselves as the same thing as coming into his home, trampling his christmas tree, taking away the presents and overturning the dinner table.

It is exactly the aggressive and intrusive kind of intolerance we've seen elsewhere.

For me and many (if not most) others it is primarily a nice family festivity.

And one with a long tradition with its origins clearly in pagan times. Of course christianity has historically adopted it for its own ends, but so can atheists today, without exerting any conformity pressure whatsoever. But that sentiment is apparently not shared by everyone on the other side, which is a pity, really.

May the holiday spirit in whatever form be upon you all!   

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): For me and many (if not most) others it is primarily a nice family festivity.

Completely correct. I don't know that many people who actually celebrate it as the birth of Christ. If you're a Christian, you should really act your best every day anyhow.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 37): If you're a Christian, you should really act your best every day anyhow.

And the same is true for everybody else as well, atheists included!  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38): And the same is true for everybody else as well, atheists included!

True indeed, but Christians might seem (Polite term here!) "silly" if they do so only on that one "special day." And, as other have pointed out, it's not that special anyway.

Whatever the above, it's a nice time to relax and get fat.   

Helllllo QFF!! Welcome back!!!

OMG! It's miracle and it's christmas that you're back!! I am looking forwards to reading your funny posts!! Well time to catch up!

Cheers
Lawrence

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 29):

Yup, the airline industry never sleeps. I probably won't get home until 02:00 on the 25, so I'll be napping quite a bit during the day.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 30): So...Christ-mass has nothing to do with Christ?

So, the fact that christ is part of the english name for this holliday is proof that it is a christian holliday? What about all the languages that has no hints of religion in the name?

Like Klaus points out, this holliday was already an old celebration when Jesus was born.


God Jul / Merry Xmas
Rune   

Quoting Faustino927 (Reply 13): That is because Christmas IS a religious holiday. As a Catholic we celebrate the birth of our Saviour Jesus Christ. To me it is Merry Christmas NOT Happy Holidays since I am not Jewish or African American. Merry Christmas to all!!!!

Merry Christmas to you too!

" The middle of winter has long been a time of celebration around the world. Centuries before the arrival of the man called Jesus, early Europeans celebrated light and birth in the darkest days of winter. Many peoples rejoiced during the winter solstice, when the worst of the winter was behind them and they could look forward to longer days and extended hours of sunlight.

In Scandinavia, the Norse celebrated Yule from December 21, the winter solstice, through January. In recognition of the return of the sun, fathers and sons would bring home large logs, which they would set on fire. The people would feast until the log burned out, which could take as many as 12 days. The Norse believed that each spark from the fire represented a new pig or calf that would be born during the coming year.

The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter. For many, it was the only time of year when they had a supply of fresh meat. In addition, most wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking.

In Germany, people honored the pagan god Oden during the mid-winter holiday. Germans were terrified of Oden, as they believed he made nocturnal flights through the sky to observe his people, and then decide who would prosper or perish. Because of his presence, many people chose to stay inside...."

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?c...=1252&display_order=1&mini_id=1290

Wow TACA - that's actually a very good point in support of the secularisation of Christmas. I'm impressed!

I will be working my normal 9 hour day, and no i don't wish people a Merry Christmas except my family, who being catholic still go for that kind of thing. Personally I have no interest in any of it.

Klausie....you poor thing. You've got the absolute need to be correct in all things, even when you're pretty damned wrong. It's ok, though. In the spirit of the season I forgive you. Even though you responded negatively to my assessment of why certain people feel the need to justify their participation in a holiday celebrating a figure in whom they don't wish to believe by denigrating those who do. It's ok.

Quoting DYflyer (Reply 42): So, the fact that christ is part of the english name for this holliday is proof that it is a christian holliday? What about all the languages that has no hints of religion in the name?

Part 1. Yes.

Part 2. What about them? Is Columbus Day about anyone other than Columbus? Presidents Day about someone other than the two Presidents?

Guys...if you're celebrating Winter Solstice or Kwanzaa then that's great! The more the merrier. But if you're going to celebrate Christmas then it's got plenty to do with religion. You don't have to acknowledge it, or even believe in Christ as an historical figure much less religious.....but the reason the world celebrates Christmas as we know it is religion. Southern hemispherical nations aren't in the middle of their solstice....and they celebrate Christmas in December. Winter solstice celebrations for them would be in June (I think...forgive the lack of precision here).

Quoting DYflyer (Reply 42): Like Klaus points out, this holliday was already an old celebration when Jesus was born.

Christmas wasn't. There were seasonal celebrations, such as the harvest festivals and springtime festivals and summer solstice markings....but the celebration of Christmas on the specified date is just that. If you don't like it then don't celebrate it. Or at least don't try and bring others down.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): He obviously equates other people's different views of christmas for themselves as the same thing as coming into his home, trampling his christmas tree, taking away the presents and overturning the dinner table.

Well, when in doubt go on the offensive. Your alliterative description of my feelings indicates a bit of hysteria on your part. I just called someone to task for wondering why people bring religion into a religious holiday. I "equate celebrations of Christmas?" Dude...I celebrate along with most everyone else. I simply stepped up to make some people see that they were acting in (to borrow your words) an aggressive and intrusive manner in attempting to downplay the reason for the season for about half the worlds population.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): It is exactly the aggressive and intrusive kind of intolerance we've seen elsewhere.

Wow...you're a conspiracy theorist. A bit paranoid as well. And, again....going on the offensive with the wilder accusations....can't you come up with something logical here. Perhaps I missed it. Maybe you could restate the logic somewhere and make sure I see it by using your favorite emphatical italics or boldfaces.  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): Of course christianity has historically adopted it for its own ends, but so can atheists today, without exerting any conformity pressure whatsoever

Dude...Christians don't seem to get in the way of people who want to dance naked around trees (at least not most Christians....can't speak for the fundamentalists except that most of them don't recommend executions like some other relgions fundamentalists may). Just don't call that Christmas unless you're dancing naked to celebrate the birth of Christ.

You see, I don't care what you do to celebrate any holiday you want to celebrate. I get under Klausies skin because he's a know-it-all who may not always be right, but he's never wrong and I point that out....but that has nothing to do with the point of my post, or this thread. This thread is about atheists making themselves feel ok about being a bit hypocritical and celebrating Christmas. If they would be intellectually honest then they'd admit they're wishing to participate on their own terms and do recognize that there may be some actual good points to religion. It's hard for me to do that and I actually believe that Christ walked the earth and taught what he taught. I despise most organized religion as a means of buying ones ticket on the boat through participation in ritual and rote. But there are some universal things that are true, and the message of love, peace and joy are among them.

Too bad some folks miss out on that by whining about bringing religion into the holiday celebrating the birth of one religions saviour. But....if the people who follow the religion wish to follow the example of that saviour they'll love those others anyway and forgive them for the insults and patronizations.

Klaus...go back and re-read my posts and see if you can perceive some other intent besides evil in them by comparing them to the posts to which they referred. If you can't after honest effort then so be it. Merry Christmas...or Winter Solstice, or Weeks of Naked Tree Dancing to you. Whatever you prefer.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 44): Wow TACA - that's actually a very good point in support of the secularisation of Christmas. I'm impressed!

Nope. That's was long time before Christ.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 46): DL021 From United States, joined May 2004, 10156 posts, RR: 90

Good man!! Well said!!! Welcome to my RU list  

Quoting DL021 (Reply 46): Klausie....you poor thing. You've got the absolute need to be correct in all things, even when you're pretty damned wrong. It's ok, though. In the spirit of the season I forgive you. Even though you responded negatively to my assessment of why certain people feel the need to justify their participation in a holiday celebrating a figure in whom they don't wish to believe by denigrating those who do. It's ok. Quoting DYflyer (Reply 42): So, the fact that Christ is part of the English name for this holiday is proof that it is a Christian holiday? What about all the languages that has no hints of religion in the name? Part 1. Yes. Part 2. What about them? Is Columbus Day about anyone other than Columbus? Presidents Day about someone other than the two Presidents? Guys...if you're celebrating Winter Solstice or Kwanzaa then that's great! The more the merrier. But if you're going to celebrate Christmas then it's got plenty to do with religion. You don't have to acknowledge it, or even believe in Christ as an historical figure much less religious.....but the reason the world celebrates Christmas as we know it is religion. Southern hemispherical nations aren't in the middle of their solstice....and they celebrate Christmas in December. Winter solstice celebrations for them would be in June (I think...forgive the lack of precision here). Quoting DYflyer (Reply 42): Like Klaus points out, this holiday was already an old celebration when Jesus was born. Christmas wasn't. There were seasonal celebrations, such as the harvest festivals and springtime festivals and summer solstice markings....but the celebration of Christmas on the specified date is just that. If you don't like it then don't celebrate it. Or at least don't try and bring others down. Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): He obviously equates other people's different views of Christmas for themselves as the same thing as coming into his home, trampling his Christmas tree, taking away the presents and overturning the dinner table. Well, when in doubt go on the offensive. Your alliterative description of my feelings indicates a bit of hysteria on your part. I just called someone to task for wondering why people bring religion into a religious holiday. I "equate celebrations of Christmas?" Dude...I celebrate along with most everyone else. I simply stepped up to make some people see that they were acting in (to borrow your words) an aggressive and intrusive manner in attempting to downplay the reason for the season for about half the worlds population. Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): It is exactly the aggressive and intrusive kind of intolerance we've seen elsewhere. Wow...you're a conspiracy theorist. A bit paranoid as well. And, again....going on the offensive with the wilder accusations....can't you come up with something logical here. Perhaps I missed it. Maybe you could restate the logic somewhere and make sure I see it by using your favorite emphatical italics or bold faces. Wink Quoting Klaus (Reply 36): Of course Christianity has historically adopted it for its own ends, but so can atheists today, without exerting any conformity pressure whatsoever Dude...Christians don't seem to get in the way of people who want to dance naked around trees (at least not most Christians....can't speak for the fundamentalists except that most of them don't recommend executions like some other religions fundamentalists may). Just don't call that Christmas unless you're dancing naked to celebrate the birth of Christ. You see, I don't care what you do to celebrate any holiday you want to celebrate. I get under Klausies skin because he's a know-it-all who may not always be right, but he's never wrong and I point that out....but that has nothing to do with the point of my post, or this thread. This thread is about atheists making themselves feel ok about being a bit hypocritical and celebrating Christmas. If they would be intellectually honest then they'd admit they're wishing to participate on their own terms and do recognize that there may be some actual good points to religion. It's hard for me to do that and I actually believe that Christ walked the earth and taught what he taught. I despise most organized religion as a means of buying ones ticket on the boat through participation in ritual and rote. But there are some universal things that are true, and the message of love, peace and joy are among them. Too bad some folks miss out on that by whining about bringing religion into the holiday celebrating the birth of one religions saviour. But....if the people who follow the religion wish to follow the example of that saviour they'll love those others anyway and forgive them for the insults and patronization. Klaus...go back and re-read my posts and see if you can perceive some other intent besides evil in them by comparing them to the posts to which they referred. If you can't after honest effort then so be it. Merry Christmas...or Winter Solstice, or Weeks of Naked Tree Dancing to you. Whatever you prefer.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 48): Good man!! Well said!!!

I second that! [Hat off].

Don't like it? Don't celebrate it. Or at least don't try [unsuccessfully] to spoil the religious celebration...

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!