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Boeinglover24
Topic Author
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:35 am

Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:20 am

I'm a first time builder long time planning this
I want something that can run crysis and fsx on high res.
I read tons of articles about building my own but tis' the only time i got enough money to go about this
Tons of stuff I read and it seemed like it's just playing with legos, i know i know it's probably not
but i want to know what's next after i hit the power button. Do i just put the computer together and install windows? Is that it? or do i need to tinker with the bios and such. I know I know I probably will have to.
First things first what do you think about the components i picked out. Can it run the more recent games.
Do all the components fit with each other? Any better parts than the one i picked out? Any other options? i.e. buy a an assembled one from ibuypower, ebay and such
Any help would be appreciated
Thank you a.net
Uhhh What?
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am

There's a pretty good book called Building the Perfect PC (second edition) by Robert and Barbara Thompson. They've got a section on building a gaming PC that you should read before you get too far. You can get a copy off Amazon for about $18 or so. Hopefully you will read this before you start buying too many components. Building a competent gaming machine requires some fairly astute selection of components for compatibility and utility and some careful attention to cooling.

Best of luck and let us know how your build turned out.

Or, according to Klaus, you can just snack the Mac, so to speak.

 Wink  Wink
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Boeinglover24
Topic Author
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:35 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:27 am

Man forgot the link
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.asp?ID=7505966
Uhhh What?
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 1):
There's a pretty good book called Building the Perfect PC (second edition) by Robert and Barbara Thompson.

The wall calendar is now creeping towards 2008. A 2004 book is just plain out-of-date. Even six months is an eternity in the business. http://www.amazon.com/review/product...ink_7?5Fencoding=UTF8&pageNumber=7

I'd say get to know a local builder/experimenter and ask him/her for guidance and parts. Shop locally and take good care of your warranty receipts.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:40 pm

That's good because the Thompsons like Newegg. Not exactly the cheapest but one of the better more reputable vendors.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 3):
The wall calendar is now creeping towards 2008. A 2004 book is just plain out-of-date. Even six months is an eternity in the business. http://www.amazon.com/review/product...ink_7?5Fencoding=UTF8&pageNumber=7

But this was the 2006 second edition.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:00 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 4):
But this was the 2006 second edition.

But we're not building a 2006 model machine, either. Printed media always will be late, bad.

Try googling "3dmark 2006 results" (there's even an official register on Futuremark site), e.g.
http://forums.ocia.net/viewtopic.php...d=701de7a805ed6be9e66990fb29712c31
and check what type of CPU, MB, and video card people are using for which results.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 5):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 4):
But this was the 2006 second edition.

But we're not building a 2006 model machine, either. Printed media always will be late, bad.

Try googling "3dmark 2006 results" (there's even an official register on Futuremark site), e.g.
http://forums.ocia.net/viewtopic.php...d=701de7a805ed6be9e66990fb29712c31
and check what type of CPU, MB, and video card people are using for which results.

Every friggin printed book is out of date yesterday including every google search. Does that mean you shouldn't read anything? To you, maybe. I'll tell you what. I got through twelve years as an aircraft engine mechanic and all of that was with printed material. So please...drop the professional geek philistine thing, all right?

Did I say it was cutting edge material? I did not.

All I said was that the guy should read it before he gets too far-that's important as this is his first build. What they have to say generally about component selection and construction methods are as valid as they ever were. Did I say it was a guide to the latest component selection? I did not.

Do you figure you can't learn anything because the book that it's printed in is a year old? OK.

Please point me to your effing published works.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SaturnVRocket
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:52 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:22 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 6):
Do you figure you can't learn anything because the book that it's printed in is a year old? OK.

Please point me to your effing published works.

Sounds like somebody needs some



I think your best bet is to use google and forums such as http://forums.anandtech.com/. I built a gaming machine this summer and it was my first PC build. I will never buy another machine off the shelf again. Building a machine is not only cheaper but very rewarding. The only thing I can say though about building a PC from scratch is that it really helps to have another WORKING computer beside you, because if you get any DOA's you could spend days trying to figure out which part is the bad one. If you have a working computer beside you all you have to do is place each component in the working computer and when it fails to POST you know which piece is the offending one. So far though my computer has worked like a charm.

EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
E6850 OC'd to 3.7
4 GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer 1066 RAM
EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB Video Card
Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Sound Card
150 GB WD 10,000 RPM HDD
Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW 22" Widescreen

Actually as far as FSX goes on this build is at stock speeds not as good as I would like (20ish FPS). But when I OC the CPU and video card it performs very well (30+ FPS).

Anyway, I didn't need to buy any books to learn how to build a computer. Everything is available online. But there's no doubt, this is a magical time to be building a computer. With the release of new DDR3 RAM and the new Intel chips due to hit the market anytime, the price of very good hardware on the market today has dropped like a rock.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 6):
Did I say it was cutting edge material? I did not.

It's the inconvenient fact that the field progresses so fast that no book can keep up with it. Take the multi-core CPU thing for instance. The progress of RAM and other memory. The amazing emerging 3D technologies. The Net is your book and the best place to do your study. When yourself were an aircraft engineer, the times were different. And the object of your study could be considered practically fixed for its lifetime.

I was trying to say to this guy to try and network with other people in his local area and seek for helpful experts there. There's always someone with a lot of expertise around.

Here's a free startup: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/build-a-computer.htm

[Edited 2007-12-28 00:25:04]
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:23 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 8):
I was trying to say to this guy to try and network with other people in his local area and seek for helpful experts there. There's always someone with a lot of expertise around.

Your theory seems to be that no textbook is any good to learn from because it's instantlyv outdated. I take issue, not with the idea that it's instantly outdated, but what conclusions you've drawn from your premises. What you are ignoring of course is that a good textbook presents information in a logical and organized manner that is peer reviewed. Very little on the web meets that mark.

I sort of got the idea that the guy needed to learn to walk before he tried to fly. If the guy was far enough along to be able to evaluate experts he wouldn't be asking this sort of question in this place, would he?

I bought the book, haven't built anything yet but I used it to rip out and reform the innards of two off the shelf computers and make one out of it. There were things I just didn't know and wouldn't know without a good introductory text and an introduction to the kind of specialized language home builders use. That's how people learn their chops and graduate to important stuff like higher mathematics, engineering, medicine, and science-not by lurking on the web.

A good textbook, even if a little dated, is a good way to start your learning process without the extra added burden of sorting through internet 'opinion' on chatboards. That's anarchy.

Quoting Saturnvrocket (Reply 7):
ounds like somebody needs some

Yeah, I did. I think I got my undies in a bunch. Thanks for the reminder.


 Wink  Wink
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SBBRTech
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Bu

Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:44 pm



Quoting Boeinglover24 (Thread starter):
i want to know what's next after i hit the power button. Do i just put the computer together and install windows? Is that it? or do i need to tinker with the bios and such.

Hey Boeing, well, assembling a PC is quite straightforward but keep in mind that it's unlikely it will start up on the first trial. Some parts will require some BIOS work but nothing too hard. The internet is filled with info about how each part is fitted and set up.

For a good PC you must avoid the cheapest parts when buying: the motherboard, the RAM memory modules, the processor (and the power supply if you plan to stick a good video card in it). The rest is the rest. You can have a crappy monitor, a slow optical drive, bad mouse, cheap keyboard....but with the core thing, go for the best you can afford.

Don't fall for the seller's pitch and don't go for old standards like single core CPUs, AGP video cards, DDR1 memories, IDE drives..etc. They are all goners.

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Thread starter):
I want something that can run crysis and fsx on high res.

If you want FSX on max res and max everything go for an AMD dual core (4200+) or a Intel Core2Duo with 2GB of RAM and at least a GeForce 7600GT or 7900 GT (or their Radeon counterparts). This will do it easily.
For Crysis you must go for a DX10 videocard like 8600GT/GTS or 8800GT/GTX...less than that and it's all on "medium" and "low" res.
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
Your theory seems to be that no textbook is any good to learn from because it's instantlyv outdated. I take issue, not with the idea that it's instantly outdated, but what conclusions you've drawn from your premises.

I'm afraid there's no such thing as an authoritative "textbook" on home or gaming computer building. There never has been, there never will be. That's a fact, not a theory. As I've said and will say again, the "book" is the experiencing community.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
I sort of got the idea that the guy needed to learn to walk before he tried to fly. If the guy was far enough along to be able to evaluate experts he wouldn't be asking this sort of question in this place, would he?

I did encourage him to contact local people and local sellers right from the beginning, did I not?. This is a sort of thing you will not learn from books, only by doing.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 10):
or a good PC you must avoid the cheapest parts when buying

That's correct. You should only buy from people that you know are easy to deal with when returning bad parts. A good seller will usually be able to replace the part right away.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:34 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 11):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
Your theory seems to be that no textbook is any good to learn from because it's instantlyv outdated. I take issue, not with the idea that it's instantly outdated, but what conclusions you've drawn from your premises.

I'm afraid there's no such thing as an authoritative "textbook" on home or gaming computer building. There never has been, there never will be. That's a fact, not a theory. As I've said and will say again, the "book" is the experiencing community.

That's your opinion and I respect it although I do not agree with it.

And it still doesn't explain how one can evaluate your version of it, or how one can acquire and learn to assess the relative worth of the information thus acquired.

The simple answer is, he can't and you can't.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:55 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 13):
That's your opinion and I respect it although I do not agree with it.

And it still doesn't explain how one can evaluate your version of it, or how one can acquire and learn to assess the relative worth of the information thus acquired.

Well to put what I've said into an aeronautical engineering context, you can read a textbook or two of aerodynamics and aircraft structures, yet your first landing of a real aircraft will fail miserably.

Learning is a bit of a mystery to everyone, but one thing I know is that you don't want to start your learning with outdated literature.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:10 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 14):
Learning is a bit of a mystery to everyone, but one thing I know is that you don't want to start your learning with outdated literature.

It is a bit of a mystery, no doubt about that, but if you don't know anything about a particular subject or maybe only know a little bit of what you've picked up in chat rooms with no frame of reference to evaluate the information you acquired, it's a good idea to have context. Context does not depend on having the last word on anything. but rather builds a frame of reference for evaluating information. As it happens you're advocating a form of autodidacticism that explains why self taught people sometimes have huge gaping holes in their intellect.

I appreciate what you're saying but the web is not the be all and end all of anything much. My experience in teaching online classes for two universities for four years leads me to the opposite conclusion-folks who rely strictly on the web for their information uptake are in the main uninformed in fundamental ways that are hard to remedy.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:58 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 15):
As it happens you're advocating a form of autodidacticism that explains why self taught people sometimes have huge gaping holes in their intellect.

I fail to see your point here. I'm understanding your alternative would be to send this chap to college to have his real formal education in computer science, and then have him start assembling components on his third year maybe?

The aim here is just to build an up-to-date gaming computer, not to educate all the future IT experts for the world, (although it might happen as a byproduct.) For that particular purpose I think a 2004 book updated in -06 is just obsolete, if you on the other hand feel it's ok for your projects, that's fine with me. I also don't regard following & taking advise from Internet discussion boards as an act of anarchy, or they are, this thread will be anarchistic and madness to follow as well !
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:54 am



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 16):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 15):
As it happens you're advocating a form of autodidacticism that explains why self taught people sometimes have huge gaping holes in their intellect.

I fail to see your point here. I'm understanding your alternative would be to send this chap to college to have his real formal education in computer science, and then have him start assembling components on his third year maybe?

No, not really. I've found that some preliminary reading and thought, even if the information is slightly out of date according to some folks will give a person a good introduction to any technological discipline, the kind of tools required, some of the common pitfalls, what the general parameters might be, maybe a few pictures-they're worth a thousand words, you know. Having information that's organized in a logical readable way surely can't hurt the fellow and might save him a lot of trouble in the bargain. Plus the folks who wrote it host a pretty lively forum on their site as well.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:01 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17):
a good introduction to any technological discipline

This particular branch of technology is moving on at an amazing pace. The Customer's really jumping in at the deep end, in the middle of someone else's IT development projet. Of course one may want to start with some 2004/6 literature and a pile of hardware from that date, and experiment a lot, because they're becoming cheaper than dirt.
 
CaptOveur
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:13 pm

The most important thing to remember:

If it doesn't fit- it doesn't go there.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:09 pm



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 19):
The most important thing to remember:

If it doesn't fit- it doesn't go there.

Correct. A lot of the connectors that are used are not meant for regular use and can be easily damaged.

Mr. Average User, one of the things I did learn from reading outdated material was that it's a good idea to load the motherboard and make sure you support it from the back side while you're stuffing the components, all before you install it in the case, because some boards are pretty fragile.

That's the kind of outdated information you might not learn on a technogeek forum but it would be nice for a first time builder to know.

After all, there's the carpenter's maxim: Measure twice, cut once. It's a good rule to live by.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:58 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 20):
Mr. Average User, one of the things I did learn from reading outdated material was that it's a good idea to load the motherboard and make sure you support it from the back side while you're stuffing the components, all before you install it in the case, because some boards are pretty fragile.

I don't know what vintage of book you were reading, and what you mean by "support", but I just let the board lie in its box and on its antistatic padding while I drop in the parts. Eezy! The modern components (CPU, hetsink, memory) direct very little force downward while being installed, and hey -- the MB is expected and designed to be able withstand a removal/reinstallation of them even when the MB is in the case later in time! (Study e.g the Socket 775 mechanism.) Bending is not a problem, but scratch the surface of the MB with any sharp tools and cut tracks, and man, will you feel bad...

Dougloid, good luck with your future projects! I would not have guessed a mere reference to a book would have lead to such an enlightening discussion!

---

Anyway, here's a (slightly outdated) link to some instructions I can endorse. 0 currency units to d/l.

http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/step-1-materials-required/
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:57 am



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 21):
Dougloid, good luck with your future projects! I would not have guessed a mere reference to a book would have lead to such an enlightening discussion!

Thank you. It's always a good thing to advocate. Ideas are like iron-they're useless unless heated red hot and hammered in the forge. Nobody ever learned much from agreeing all the time.

Even if we don't agree we both probably learned something of value. I sure did. I figure that building up a PC will be one of my projects next year-after I finish my Princeton Reverb upgrade and recover.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Attn: Computer Geeks Please Help Me With My Build

Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting Boeinglover24 (Thread starter):
I want something that can run crysis and fsx on high res.

Crysis on high? then you'll have to wait for next generation products, as even current high end is having a hard time with the game. Consider this, my fav game this past summer 2007 was called F.E.A.R., even with my Intel Pentium D dual core cpu at 2.8ghz and an nVidia GeForce 7950GT overclocked to 618/1680, I get no more than 40FPS at full settings -- this game first debuted back in summer 2005. Crysis was the first DX10 game title, only debuted a few months ago. It was made using the highest hardware out now, GeForce 8800GTX, so how could anyone possibly expect running this game at high settings when the only hardware capable of running it will be a $5,000 computer?! A future GeForce 9-series and Intel Core 2 Quad core or an ATI Radeon HD 48x0 with an AMD Phenom X4 9900 (B3 stepping) will help but I doubt its in your budget.

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Thread starter):
First things first what do you think about the components i picked out. Can it run the more recent games. Do all the components fit with each other? Any better parts than the one i picked out? Any other options? i.e. buy a an assembled one from ibuypower, ebay and such

Since that link you gave didn't work and most of the convo here has been about outdated computer books, I suppose I'm one of the first to ask you: What components? Just type them in, all of them, including any fans and fancy LED's to decorate. When you input the PSU, either give a link to the product, or just give the max amps draw per 12vdc line.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.

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