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Queso
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The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:00 am

Continued from The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 1 (by Queso Dec 20 2007 in Non Aviation)

Guys, the failures of gun control hit me very hard today. I received news that (keep up with this) my wife's sister's husband's sister was murdered last night. She lived in Mexico, which has an almost complete prohibition on privately owned firearms. The laws are very strict down there and require difficult to obtain permits to own firearms and the firearms are even restricted to certain calibers smaller than .380ACP and .38 special and those that cannot be used by the military. In many ways, the laws are even more restrictive that most European gun control laws. Here's a good description of Mexican gun laws with sourcing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico

Her family is devestated. She was killed by her husband, who shot her with a pistol that was in many ways unlawful for him to have in his posession, but he still did. So much for gun control.
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:22 am

My condolences.

Much of Latin America is that way. Put it goes to prove that gun controls the law abiding people. The criminals don't give a rat's behind about the laws. Washington, D.C. is good example of such a failure in this country.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:28 am



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 1):
My condolences.

Thank you, I will pass that along. My wife is packing her things right now so she can go to Mexico tomorrow.

The thing that strikes me is that the Mexican constitution stipulates the right of the people to bear arms:

"Artículo 10: Todo hombre tiene derecho de poseer y portar armas para su seguridad y legítima defensa. La ley señalará cuáles son las prohibidas y la pena en que incurren los que las portaren.

Article 10: Every man has the right to have and to carry arms for his security and legitimate defense. The law will indicate which arms are prohibited and the penalty for those that will carry prohibited arms."


This is what scares the shit out of me about the 2nd Amendment. This article of the Mexican constitution has been completely covered up by subsequent legislation and that is exactly what the gun control advocates here are trying to do to our constitution too!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:29 am

Please pass on my sympathies.

Why? Domestic? What a shame . . .










""Mod Hat On >> I expect the same level of adult conversation in this thread that we had in version 1. << Mod Hat Off ""

[Edited 2008-01-16 16:29:54]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:36 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Please pass on my sympathies.

Thank you, I will pass that along.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Why? Domestic? What a shame . . .

Yes, the lady apparently has been separated from her husband for a couple of years. There have been intervening periods of instability with her returning to her parents' house in a small village several miles away from the town she lived in several times (she was about 40 years of age). Last night he went to her house, apparently became violent, and proceeded to shoot her twice in the head. Her 18 or 19 year old son found her. The perpetrator is in custody.
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:05 am

I found a link to a story about the incident in their local media- Sorry, spanish only and warning, somewhat graphic photo:
http://www.zocalo.com.mx/hub.cfm/edi...3D005A75565A08525841004D4511104F4E

It pretty much says what I posted earlier. The husband fled after he shot her but he was found an hour later in Zaragoza after a "code red" was issued.

IANA medical examiner, and not to be morbid, but I have been exposed to tissue damage studies in my firearms training. Looking at the picture, it was apparently a small caliber gun or non-expanding bullets.
 
ORFflyer
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:28 pm



Quoting Queso (Thread starter):

I sorry to hear about that. Please pass along to your wife my sympathies.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
""Mod Hat On >>

The pink one?  duck 
 
SBBRTech
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:51 pm

My sincere condolences, Queso.

Quoting Queso (Thread starter):
So much for gun control.

I can only come to the conclusion that there's no such thing as gun control. Since weapons are tools, people (good and bad) are gonna use them regardless of what's written in laws or constitutions. What happened in Mexico wouldn't be different if the husband owned a legalized weapon. He crossed the line into insanity and decided to take the life of his wife - be it a .38 or P90...the outcome would have been the same.

Sorry for using this sad event as an example for my theory.
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:52 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
Please pass along to your wife my sympathies.

Thank you sir, I will do that.
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:55 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 7):
He crossed the line into insanity and decided to take the life of his wife - be it a .38 or P90...the outcome would have been the same.

Or a kitchen knife, a baseball bat, a car, etc. etc. When people lose their minds, all bets are off. Good example is the Mall Shooter in Omaha. The Virginia Tech Shooter was half in the bag before he snapped. The only defense would be a good offense, and for that you will need the tools required for the job.
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Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:07 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 7):
My sincere condolences, Queso.

Thanks, I will pass them along to the family.

Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 7):
What happened in Mexico wouldn't be different if the husband owned a legalized weapon. He crossed the line into insanity and decided to take the life of his wife - be it a .38 or P90...the outcome would have been the same.

You're right, and you're statement is backed up by too many examples through history.

Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 7):
Sorry for using this sad event as an example for my theory.

No, I think it's OK to talk about the incident within this perspective. That's why I shared it. My wife knew this lady very well, she said she was always making food to sell to make money for her kids and my daughter knew her kids and danced with them at quinceaneras. My wife and I discussed what happened at length last night (as you might imagine) and she feels exactly the same way I do about this. She very much appreciates the sentiments of condolence expressed by you all and will pass them along to the begrieved family.

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 9):
The only defense would be a good offense, and for that you will need the tools required for the job.

Absolutely correct. And you can pass around hypotheticals all day such as would she have been able to defend herself if she would have been allowed to have a gun, etc. But what it all comes down to is that Mexico has some of the most strict gun laws on the entire planet and it didn't keep this lady from being killed by an enraged man.

BTW Miamiair, did you read that article? Anything I missed?
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:20 pm

Another article, sorry it's spanish only: http://zocalo.com.mx/hub.cfm/detalle...3D005A75565A08525841004D4511114B4B

Now he says he's "sorry with all of his heart", he "never meant for it to happen" and he "accepts that he took the life of his woman".

And I was right by just looking at the picture, the murder weapon was a .22 revolver.

Miamiair (or any other spanish speakers), feel free to add in anything else you pick out of it.
 
halls120
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting Queso (Thread starter):
She was killed by her husband, who shot her with a pistol that was in many ways unlawful for him to have in his posession, but he still did. So much for gun control.

My condolences to the family.

Making guns illegal only puts law abiding citizens at risk.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 6):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
""Mod Hat On >>

The pink one?

 rotfl  We need a photo!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:46 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 11):
sorry it's spanish only:

From the article, he states "...but I didn't mean to kill her."

He had tried to hug her and display affection and she said she wanted nothing to do with him, he went to his bed where he had a .22 revolver and shot her twice.

When he saw laying there in a pool of blood, he decided to flee.

He was captured within the hour.

This is a tragedy to say the least. The sad fact that this is a common occurence in Latin America. Husbands go get drunk, they want to get cozy with their wives and they want none of it. The result is violence; beatings, rape and in this case murder.

There is no consolation, but Mexican prisons make US prisons look like the Club Med.
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MDorBust
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:37 pm

I'm surprised.

The normally crappy Dallas Morning News actually wrote a very good article on the Castle Law in Texas and other defense issues.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...12008dnmetfightingback.6a8cbd.html
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:47 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
The normally crappy Dallas Morning News actually wrote a very good article on the Castle Law in Texas and other defense issues

The day the Miami herald prints something like that, I will be seeing a pig taxi into position and holding on 08R. Our rag is Anti-Gun, and the idiot chief of police is pushing the Anti crap even though the rank and file of the FOP are against it.
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MDorBust
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:14 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 15):
The day the Miami herald prints something like that, I will be seeing a pig taxi into position and holding on 08R. Our rag is Anti-Gun...

One of the reasons I was so stunned to see it... The Dallas Morning News is usually a by product of San Francisco and New York City having a night of drunken debauchery.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:24 pm

FINALLY, it has been posted on YouTube! This is the best gun control discussion you'll EVER see, no matter which side of it you're on! It looks deeply into what the founding fathers really meant when they wrote the 2nd Amendment.

It's in three parts and it's 30 minutes so sit back and relax and enjoy the show!

Penn and Teller's "Gun Control is BULLSHIT".





 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:24 pm

Ain't that some shit?

Gun Control is Bullshit.

And that is the truth, more laws don't deter crime or make us safer. Wait and see what comes from the SC in two months.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
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CALTECH
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:41 pm

Queso, condolences and sympathy to your wife and her family in this tragedy. Gun control is bullshit, it is directed against law-abiding citizens where it is not needed, not against the criminals who are going to break the law no matter what law is on the books. Gun control just makes certain people feel safer. Of course, they are the ones with armed bodyguards. Some of the biggest gun control activists have armed bodyguards. Funny that. Take it away from you, but we get to keep it.
You are here.
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting CALTECH (Reply 19):
condolences and sympathy to your wife and her family in this tragedy.

Thank you, sir. I will pass that along.
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:25 pm

Forgive me, for I have sinned.
An About Face After Being Saved by a Gun Owner

A letter to the editor
mailed to www.keepandbeararms.com

I am one of those people who you loathe. One of those invisible people who come into your living room without asking your permission. One of those people who follow you while you shop, and make it harder for you to make legal purchases. One of those people who try and tell you how to raise your children, as if you don't know how. One of those who gives ratings to stations that promote our demise as a free nation. I am your enemy. Or at least I was.

I followed it all, all of the propaganda, all of the hoopla. Believed it too. Believed that leaving my house was more dangerous than being in a war. At any given moment one of you evil gun owners would open fire on me. I saw the NRA stickers, the Gun owners of America stickers on the cars that passed, and I thought you were all fools. I did everything in my power financially to try and help more laws pass that would prevent you from owning guns. I wholeheartedly believed that only the Police, and Military should have guns. Every time I heard of a gang shooting, or other criminal act committed with a gun, I honestly believed that if we could curtail the legal sale of guns, we could make a difference.

Boy was I wrong.

I have children, three actually, and to me the only thing more important than raising them properly, was seeing that they aren't hurt in anyway. I wanted to ban guns, save my children, save all children. No child should have to be part of any kind of death, especially the kind that involves being shot. I gave money to all of the anti gun organizations I could think of, went to the "Million" Mom March, even looked at Rosie when she spoke, and actually admire her. Brought the kids as well, and even yelled some not so nice things to those other marchers. I'm sure some of you know who I refer to.

I was on my way back from the march, on my way back to Connecticut, when I stopped off of the highway at a rest stop by one of those McDonalds they have off I-95. By this time I had dropped off two of my kids with their father, and only had my little one with me. I went into the restroom with her, and on my way out noticed two men hanging out by my car. There were only two other cars in the lot at the time that were anywhere near my vehicle. I immediately felt threatened by their demeanor, but continued on to my car. The smaller of the two approached me with a knife as I was about to open the door to put my child in her car seat. He yelled at me to get in the back of the car, they were taking me for a little ride. I obviously told them to just take my keys, they could have the car, but they insisted I get in the back. I then heard a man yelling something I don't quite recall, and saw him running towards me with a gun in his hand. The two men vanished into their car, and sped away. I stood there frozen in time, and by the time the gentleman with the gun got to me I just broke down and cried.

To make a long story short, you were all right, and I'm sorry. This man with a gun saved me, and I just keep thinking if I had gotten my wish and guns were banned, there is no telling where I'd be, and what would've happened to my daughter. The only regret I have is not getting the man's phone number who saved my life. I thanked him over and over again, and told him that he saved me, but he calmly said to me something I'd never forget. He said "That's what people like me are here for Ms., and I'm happy to have been able to help."

"That's what people like me are here for," those words keep on running through my head everyday. Maybe this gentleman by some chance is part of your group, and will read my message. If he does I would just like to say something to him, and to everyone else reading this note.

Thank you for saving my life, and to the rest of you thank you for fighting for this man's right to protect me and my child. Tell him for me that I will no longer be part of the group who invades his home, and tries to tell him how to store his guns. Tell him I will never be part of any group who tries to make it impossible for him to buy his tool he used to save me. And tell him I will never again tell him how to raise his children properly, because obviously I was oblivious to the fact that responsible people such as him know how to raise their children better than I do. I did rectify that situation the other day; I bought a shotgun for home protection, and am in the process of getting my concealed permit. Next time I will be ready to defend myself, or others for that matter. Some of my friends think I'm crazy, but they try their best to understand. I just tell them that as soon as their child's life is put in jeopardy by some criminal with a weapon that they will understand, but until then don't tell me how to live my life. I've lost some friends, but surprisingly most of them understand. If not for this man I could very easily have been killed or raped, and my child could've been taken from me, so once more I need to say thanks for saving me, and with all sincerity to the rest of you, forgive me, for I have sinned.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:08 pm

The link below illustrates how complacency and not following the rules can hurt you:

http://dishhead.home.insightbb.com/leg.html


Complacency - Overconfidence from repeated experience on a specific activity. This can happen with firearms, airplanes, power tools, etc, etc.
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MDorBust
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:18 pm

Darwins discharge gets around I see. Lucky man... and man enough to own up to it.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:20 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 22):
Complacency - Overconfidence from repeated experience on a specific activity. This can happen with firearms, airplanes, power tools, etc, etc.

That can't be repeated enough. Hopefully everyone can benefit from this person's mistake.
 
MDorBust
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:15 pm

A store clerk in Waco believes in the 2A apparently

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content...29/01292008wacrobberybreaking.html
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:50 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 25):
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content...29/01292008wacrobberybreaking.html

Damnit!

"Deputies later arrested Stafford L. Jones of Waco and charged him with the robbery. Stafford was booked into the Bosque County Jail after being treated and released from an area hospital for minor bullet wounds, according to the sheriff’s department. Jones was apparently grazed by the bullets, authorities said. No other injuries were reported."

If you're going to have a gun, practice with it! If you're going to use it for defense, make sure it is of sufficient stopping power!

And as always, If you know you're going to be in a gunfight....

 
lobster
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:35 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 26):
If you're going to have a gun, practice with it!

 checkmark   checkmark 


To bad this douche bad is alive and kicking and going to be sucking up taxpayer money for prison time. At least he didn't get away with anything. Kudos to the store clerk
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Par

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:42 pm

I have been meaning to post this on this thread


It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Dougloid
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:10 am

Quoting Queso (Thread starter):
Her family is devestated. She was killed by her husband, who shot her with a pistol that was in many ways unlawful for him to have in his posession, but he still did. So much for gun control.


Sorry, your imperial cheesiness...I didn't know how to do it in spanish, per haps el Queso Grande??


Don't you mean, "So much for gun control in Mexico"?

Or perhaps, so much for law unevenly applied?

I mean, the notion that those folks have anything resembling a functional, honest government is, well, preposterous. It's as absurd as the Pope's Bull Against the Moon.

In the interests of historical accuracy and all, y'know.

Signed, your friend in Iowa
where the guns are under lock and key, and toting without permission is a felonee

[Edited 2008-01-31 17:13:58]
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
I didn't know how to do it in spanish, per haps el Queso Grande??

El Queso Imperial. Or Cheesy the First, Pope of the Sigs.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:13 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
Don't you mean, "So much for gun control in Mexico"?

My thinking was that it's a good example of how gun control doesn't work, period.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
I mean, the notion that those folks have anything resembling a functional, honest government is, well, preposterous.

I don't think that matters because the guns laws in Mexico are much more strictly enforced than they are in European countries. And it still doesn't work.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
your imperial cheesiness



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
per haps el Queso Grande??



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 30):
El Queso Imperial. Or Cheesy the First, Pope of the Sigs.

I will allow you mere mortals to address me as "Lord Of The 10 Ring".



Yes, that's 50 shots gentlemen.
 
Dougloid
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:03 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 31):
will allow you mere mortals to address me as "Lord Of The 10 Ring".

Very nice, Grasshopper. Of course, you didn't say how far away you were. I could produce a similar picture with a pool cue.

Well nevermind.

Iit is far more fun to be known to the ladies as "Lord of the 10 Inch".


 Wink
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:20 pm

My sentiments:
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:50 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 33):
My sentiments:

I have a t-shirt with that on it. http://www.thoseshirts.com/nor.html
 
Dougloid
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 34):
Quoting Miamiair (Reply 33):
My sentiments:

I have a t-shirt with that on it. http://www.thoseshirts.com/nor.html

that's kind of nice.

I'm glad to see you fellows are four square for all the other stuff in the Bill of Rights that are not generally associated with whatever this teeshirt is in favor of-the first, fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth amendments to be precise.

I'm glad I can count on your support next time I'm trying to get some obviously guilty mutt out of jail.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
miamiair
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 35):
I'm glad to see you fellows are four square for all the other stuff in the Bill of Rights

Funny...



(BTW: This is a joke, for those that aren't equipped with a sense of humor.)
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
DC10extender
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:33 pm

Big version: Width: 536 Height: 536 File size: 70kb
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
dl021
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:56 am



Quoting Queso (Reply 31):
I will allow you mere mortals to address me as "Lord Of The 10 Ring".

has anyone yet questioned the distance involved before we address you as anything other than "He-of-the-short-pencil-who-pokes-holes-in-targets" (that translates shorter in Alpacan)?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Queso
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RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:44 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):
has anyone yet questioned the distance involved before we address you as anything other than "He-of-the-short-pencil-who-pokes-holes-in-targets" (that translates shorter in Alpacan)?

Yeah, our resident "What about the other 9 Amendments?" advocate did back in Reply 32 but I hadn't answered yet.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
Very nice, Grasshopper. Of course, you didn't say how far away you were. I could produce a similar picture with a pool cue.

It's shot by the standard Texas Concealed Handgun qualification script:

3 yards, 20 rounds
1 shot, 2 seconds, 5 times
2 shots, 3 seconds, 5 times
5 shots, 10 seconds, 1 time

7 yards, 20 rounds
5 shots, 10 seconds, 1 time
2 shots, 4 seconds, 1 time
3 shots, 6 seconds, 1 time
1 shot, 3 seconds, 5 times
5 shots, 15 seconds, 1 time

15 yards, 10 rounds
2 shots, 6 seconds, 1 time
3 shots, 9 seconds, 1 time
5 shots, 15 seconds, 1 time

To add more fuel to the fire, here are the specifications for the Lethal Force Institute qualification shoots:
LFI Single Speed Drill:

On a Standard B-27 Target (or IPSC if the B-27s are not available)
4 yards - Low Ready, weak hand only, 6 shots: 8 seconds
4 yards - Holstered weapon, strong hand only, 6 shots: 8 seconds
7 yards - Freestyle from ready position, 6 shots - reload - 6 shots: 25 seconds
10 yards - Cover Crouch, High Kneel, Low Kneel; 6 reload - 6 reload - 6 shots: 75 seconds
15 yards - Weaver Stance, Chapman Stance, Isosceles Stance; 6 reload - 6 reload, 6 shots: 90 seconds

For Double Speed, its just half the time at each stage, on the same target -- i.e. double-speed close-range qualification would be:
4 yards - Holstered weapon, strong hand only, 6 shots: 4 seconds

Here are my qualification targets from a Lethal Force Institute advanced training session I went to in Florida, shot at double speed (half the time allowed) and triple speed (one-third of the time allowed). The double-speed score was 286/300 and triple-speed was 289/300 (Yes, I shot better under more pressure. Some people do that.). You guys get yourself an IPSC of IDPA target and a timer and try it!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/kmaf/Crap/LFI25thQual.jpg
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:55 pm

I think people should be allowed to carry guns after only after passing tests on gun safety, security (keeping it locked), and also psych evaluation.

I just dont see WHY ON EARTH a normal law abiding citizen NEEDS an assault rifle or armor piercing weapon with anti fingerprint grip, semi automatic, etc. Guns should be restricted to small caliber personal defense weapons and hunting rifles.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:02 pm



Quoting Luisca (Reply 45):
I think people should be allowed to carry guns after only after passing tests on gun safety, security (keeping it locked), and also psych evaluation.

I just dont see WHY ON EARTH a normal law abiding citizen NEEDS an assault rifle or armor piercing weapon with anti fingerprint grip, semi automatic, etc. Guns should be restricted to small caliber personal defense weapons and hunting rifles.

I agree with your first statement.

I DO NOT agree with your second statement. There are enough gun laws in the books already. No need for more.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
Topic Author
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:03 pm



Quoting Luisca (Reply 45):
Guns should be restricted to small caliber personal defense weapons and hunting rifles.

And cars people can own should be restricted to 110 hp and 50 mph and 4 passengers. No SUV's, no pickups, and no private busses.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:15 pm

When it is proven that every criminal or every prospective criminal is not armed then I would be more then happy to give up my guns. By armed I include knives and clubs. That will never happen therefor If I am going to have guns I might as well have fun doing it.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 47):
And cars people can own should be restricted to 110 hp and 50 mph and 4 passengers. No SUV's, no pickups, and no private busses.

Apples to oranges my friend, do you honestly believe from the bottom of your heart that their is a need for normal citizens to have assault weapons? if you cant come with an answer smarter than that then you just prove my point that too often high powered guns end up in the hands of people that are not fit to handle this responsibility.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting Luisca (Reply 49):
Apples to oranges my friend, do you honestly believe from the bottom of your heart that their is a need for normal citizens to have assault weapons? if you cant come with an answer smarter than that then you just prove my point that too often high powered guns end up in the hands of people that are not fit to handle this responsibility.

What is an assult rifle? Don't look it up. in your own words, and be honest.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
Topic Author
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:34 pm



Quoting Luisca (Reply 49):
you just prove my point that too often high powered guns end up in the hands of people that are not fit to handle this responsibility.

I have a question for you- what is the difference in a "low powered gun" and a "high powered gun"?

Quoting Luisca (Reply 49):
do you honestly believe from the bottom of your heart that their is a need for normal citizens to have assault weapons?

Yes.

 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:14 pm

I must have missed something with this Bill of Rights discussion but I'm too lazy to go look it up. I'll say that I believe in the entire thing other than that part about not coveting thy neighbors wife..... whoever came up wiht that hasn't seen some of the women in my neighborhood. I'm shopping for a fishbowl tonight.

Quoting Queso (Reply 44):
Yes, I shot better under more pressure. Some people do that.).

Was anyone shooting AT you?  Wink


Don't take the ribbing so seriously, I was kidding......your response was through and indicative of a wounding so stop it...I've seen you shoot.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 45):
armor piercing weapon with anti fingerprint grip,

they offer those? where? I want one.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 49):
do you honestly believe from the bottom of your heart that their is a need for normal citizens to have assault weapons? if you cant come with an answer smarter than that then you just prove my point that too often high powered guns end up in the hands of people that are not fit to handle this responsibility.

Need? Besides the point. I have the right to own one. The right to own one is probably one of the most important tools in protecting all the other rights.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 49):
Apples to oranges my friend

Not really. Cars and swimming pools kill more people than anything else every year. They're more readily available and easier to purchase....and much easier to obtain the use of regardless of ownership.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Queso
Topic Author
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:22 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 58):
Was anyone shooting AT you?

Not yet, we'll have to see if N1120A makes it to the next BHM meet though.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 58):
Don't take the ribbing so seriously, I was kidding

Yeah, I know. But you gave me an opportunity to show off- I HAD to do it!

Quoting DL021 (Reply 58):
your response was through and indicative of a wounding so stop it...

Just a bunch of holes in paper, hopefully in the right spots- and it was fun!

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 56):
Defend the entire Bill of Rights then

What's the point? No one is disputing other parts of it. You are trying to argue about something that no one has a problem with.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: The Ultimate Gun Control / 2nd Amd. Thread Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:36 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 59):
Not yet, we'll have to see if N1120A makes it to the next BHM meet though.

How about that photo from last time? I'll try and dig it up!

Quoting Queso (Reply 59):
Yeah, I know. But you gave me an opportunity to show off- I HAD to do it!

OK...so I'll go to the range this weekend and see what happens.....I went last weekend and it was not a good weekend for me.....although I did shoot the Sig and it was good.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?

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